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  1. #1

    Loremaster and PvMP

    I'm a returning Loremaster and I've come back for Helm's Deep. I've spent quite a bit of time getting my characters up to lvl95 and have spent some time in the moors now that I am done.

    The first few days were pretty brutal(not much has changed) since I had no audacity gear(yes I've been gone that long) and had to work for it. I learned quickly that I needed to be with a group to make anything happen and survive. Being in a group got me 5/6 pieces of my audacity gear but it still feels about the same. Everything destroys me quickly(less than 8seconds) when I'm solo, even 1vs1. I've got a little over 15k morale and I get hit pretty hard regularly. In a group setting if no one focuses on me I can dish out damage fairly easy and not worry about casting times, but against a warg all I can get off is a Wizard's Fire(being kd'd from horseback). I can do just fine if no one hits me LOL!

    My questions are:
    1. What are you LM's doing out there to stay alive? Are you successful as a solo LM?

    2. What's the most promising build for the moors these days? Best gear? Best rotations against creep classes?

    I can't say I really enjoy the game very much coming back, but I'd like to hear some tips from some of the pro's who have been at it awhile.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GV Stairs
    Posts
    755
    Spam Water Lore.

  3. #3
    I myself haven't been to moors since HD, but from what i gather from kinnies and common sense yellow is the way to go while solo. You get to insta kill low rank creeps with a combo of any stun and BE. Also you have ur waterlore buffed up in yellow line, and another HoT by healing ur pet next to you via BoH. For grps id say Red is the way to go due to AoE maelstrom.

  4. #4
    I can tell you what I do, cause that seems to work for me against any 1vs1 fight.
    First: Armour, I got 4 pieces just by doing spars (yes, I won lots of spars with 0 audacity), so armour really doesn't make that huge difference for a Lore Master, given total reduction change from having 1 audacity to having 18 is 20% less incoming damage (not mitigations) and 30% less cc duration. (honestly I found myself that having extra morale from pve armour, and better critical rating and mastery really didn't make a difference to having full auda, since I was self healing more with water lore and doing more crits with it, so survivability wasn't at all affected. For big groups (when more than 1 target is hitting you, pve armour is too bad, given you will receive self heals from other person too and receiving yourself less dmg may save you).

    Traits: I always run in a main red line, though for 1vs1 yellow line is better to survive (but you do less damage) since you can keep something always stunned/dazed/rooted. And for my red line traits first I pick all ranks of fire lore (really important), I pick all 5 ranks of water lore (so I have way more healing) and I pick the extra debuff added unlocked with fire lore, for the rest I pick main skills from red line (I don't get tact mastery buff, I only get 1 rank of ring of fire, I don't get flanks self heal increase, and I don't get some other useless traits.

    Rotation: Never go mounted, most important, stay stopping all the time to refresh your stun immune and your water lore, only with that, no warg will attack you, not even if they're 2. After all that if someone attack you, first debuff with fire lore (daze if you want so you have more time) and after that throw 1 burning embers and upgrade to searing embers both DoTs, and that means nice damage output for a while, so you only need to keep running your water lores (unless it's a warg who you met no need to use stun immune) and running and running and running, put a tar to make it easier; after first searing embers expired, do again the same and refresh debuffs, and never forget water lore. If a reaver lowers your morale to less than 60%, use wisdom of the council cause an impale can kill you if he uses it right before dev strike. And with only that, you should be able to win easily 1vs1. Only problem is when a warg attacks you by surprise, when you have no stun immune and no water lore, then only you can do is use wisdom of the council as soon as you can and staff strike to stun him, start putting water lores on yourself and stun immune, daze right after he breaks stun, or root with cracked earth, once you're full morale and with 2-3 water lore and stun immune, if he's alone he'll try to run away, just remember to keep up some DoTs on him and your pet too (pet will break it's stealth so you can follow it).
    I hope that helps you. Honestly for me, my LM is better for 1vs1 than any other class, and I got warden, mini, rk...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I can tell you what I do, cause that seems to work for me against any 1vs1 fight.
    First: Armour, I got 4 pieces just by doing spars (yes, I won lots of spars with 0 audacity), so armour really doesn't make that huge difference for a Lore Master, given total reduction change from having 1 audacity to having 18 is 20% less incoming damage (not mitigations) and 30% less cc duration. (honestly I found myself that having extra morale from pve armour, and better critical rating and mastery really didn't make a difference to having full auda, since I was self healing more with water lore and doing more crits with it, so survivability wasn't at all affected. For big groups (when more than 1 target is hitting you, pve armour is too bad, given you will receive self heals from other person too and receiving yourself less dmg may save you).

    Traits: I always run in a main red line, though for 1vs1 yellow line is better to survive (but you do less damage) since you can keep something always stunned/dazed/rooted. And for my red line traits first I pick all ranks of fire lore (really important), I pick all 5 ranks of water lore (so I have way more healing) and I pick the extra debuff added unlocked with fire lore, for the rest I pick main skills from red line (I don't get tact mastery buff, I only get 1 rank of ring of fire, I don't get flanks self heal increase, and I don't get some other useless traits.

    Rotation: Never go mounted, most important, stay stopping all the time to refresh your stun immune and your water lore, only with that, no warg will attack you, not even if they're 2. After all that if someone attack you, first debuff with fire lore (daze if you want so you have more time) and after that throw 1 burning embers and upgrade to searing embers both DoTs, and that means nice damage output for a while, so you only need to keep running your water lores (unless it's a warg who you met no need to use stun immune) and running and running and running, put a tar to make it easier; after first searing embers expired, do again the same and refresh debuffs, and never forget water lore. If a reaver lowers your morale to less than 60%, use wisdom of the council cause an impale can kill you if he uses it right before dev strike. And with only that, you should be able to win easily 1vs1. Only problem is when a warg attacks you by surprise, when you have no stun immune and no water lore, then only you can do is use wisdom of the council as soon as you can and staff strike to stun him, start putting water lores on yourself and stun immune, daze right after he breaks stun, or root with cracked earth, once you're full morale and with 2-3 water lore and stun immune, if he's alone he'll try to run away, just remember to keep up some DoTs on him and your pet too (pet will break it's stealth so you can follow it).
    I hope that helps you. Honestly for me, my LM is better for 1vs1 than any other class, and I got warden, mini, rk...
    Thanks! I tried this build out and it increased my survivability. Unfortunately they still kill me since I can't really cast and stun immunity is so short now I haven't gotten use to the timer yet. Seems to be mostly wargs and reavers everywhere. Havent had a chance against a BA, Defiler, WL yet.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    161
    My first and probably best advice would be to use crafted jewellery. The set jewels add dps but cost you a lot of morale. With crafted jewels and morale virtues my Lm went from ~16k to 20k+ morale.

    My build is red. I trait into blue until I have prepared materials, into yellow for 30% Fire-lore and Storm-lore stun. The rest goes into red. There's no points left for Nature's Fury but I prefer to have 30% Fire-lore instead.

    Spamming Water-lore doesn't save you anymore. Slows and Fire-lore are your best defense. If you don't use them you won't win vs good reavers and wargs.
    Once you have your slows working the fight shifts in your favour. This spar video vs a very skilled reaver is from 12.1, hope it helps :


  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by deathstorm78 View Post
    I'm a returning Loremaster and I've come back for Helm's Deep. I've spent quite a bit of time getting my characters up to lvl95 and have spent some time in the moors now that I am done.

    The first few days were pretty brutal(not much has changed) since I had no audacity gear(yes I've been gone that long) and had to work for it. I learned quickly that I needed to be with a group to make anything happen and survive. Being in a group got me 5/6 pieces of my audacity gear but it still feels about the same. Everything destroys me quickly(less than 8seconds) when I'm solo, even 1vs1. I've got a little over 15k morale and I get hit pretty hard regularly. In a group setting if no one focuses on me I can dish out damage fairly easy and not worry about casting times, but against a warg all I can get off is a Wizard's Fire(being kd'd from horseback). I can do just fine if no one hits me LOL!

    My questions are:
    1. What are you LM's doing out there to stay alive? Are you successful as a solo LM?

    2. What's the most promising build for the moors these days? Best gear? Best rotations against creep classes?

    I can't say I really enjoy the game very much coming back, but I'd like to hear some tips from some of the pro's who have been at it awhile.
    a high ranked warg can interrupt you with a 3 sec traited eye rake (unless low-mid ranked ones buy it from store or use a sig.) and high ranked reavers r9+ are the toughest challenge for lms as always as they have roughly 70k morale and are dps machines. if those high ranked ones target you and show no mercy with dev strike blade toss and impale you really wont stand a chance. I have not tried full yellow line but it sounds interesting and I might have to try it but I usually run a red/yellow hybrid got the Debuffs fully maxed out and red maxed out except for the useless traits like mastery flank heal fend them off and burning earth and gust of wind. Lms were the OP moors class of Rohan (I tanked 5 creeps mid ranked easy) now it is the Mini and captian. it is prob safe to say that Lms are now the weakest (survivability wise) in the moors now as SI got nerfed and wind lore got nerfed. I just really hope they fix that eye rake and something needs to be done about how Lms cant really take HD dps increase via orc craft damage.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by deathstorm78 View Post
    I've got a little over 15k morale and I get hit pretty hard regularly. In a group setting if no one focuses on me I can dish out damage fairly easy and not worry about casting times, but against a warg all I can get off is a Wizard's Fire(being kd'd from horseback). I can do just fine if no one hits me LOL!
    This is probably one of your biggest issues, I don't think there's any LM I've seen out in the Moors recently who's under 18k Morale. The better ones are all running somewhere around 22k Morale.

    Because of the pace of combat now, you pretty much need to focus on damage output and surviving CC.

    We have an LM in our kin who's pretty much the highest ranked freep on our server. Not having a high level LM, I don't recall what his exact skill layout is, but it basically revolves around Red Line, throwing down tar, lighting it on fire and dropping 6 upgraded burning ember DoT's on to every creep around. I've literally seen him solo 4 and 5 creeps at a time and take down more than one before dying.

    CC wise, LM's have decent CC survival and removal but you also need to make sure you're running with a full spectrum of Moors pots at all times, use them. Don't wait for something to wear off since chances are you'll be dead by then. Even regular FWDP pots are almost a necessity since Reaver Impale damage scales on the number of DoT's you've got on you and can get upwards of 50-60% of you life in one hit.
    Last edited by Gedrevn; Jan 31 2014 at 09:14 PM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    This is probably one of your biggest issues, I don't think there's any LM I've seen out in the Moors recently who's under 18k Morale. The better ones are all running somewhere around 22k Morale.

    Because of the pace of combat now, you pretty much need to focus on damage output and surviving CC.

    We have an LM in our kin who's pretty much the highest ranked freep on our server. Not having a high level LM, I don't recall what his exact skill layout is, but it basically revolves around Red Line, throwing down tar, lighting it on fire and dropping 6 upgraded burning ember DoT's on to every creep around. I've literally seen him solo 4 and 5 creeps at a time and take down more than one before dying.

    CC wise, LM's have decent CC survival and removal but you also need to make sure you're running with a full spectrum of Moors pots at all times, use them. Don't wait for something to wear off since chances are you'll be dead by then. Even regular FWDP pots are almost a necessity since Reaver Impale damage scales on the number of DoT's you've got on you and can get upwards of 50-60% of you life in one hit.
    I understand the low morale issue. What gear is ideal ? It has been suggested that audacity gear isn't worthwhile. What jewellry?

    lot of good discussion and plenty to consider. Thank you all for your contributions!

  10. #10
    ya, I'm currently only rank 6 and I've had some success again lower ranking reavers around rank 4 or 5, but any higher and it's really issue. I have a few issues with stalkers, but reavers...ehhh, no fun at all fighting again them that's for sure and seems 50% of the creep population are reavers other 30% stalkers lol.
    Last edited by deatheluden; Jan 31 2014 at 11:36 PM.

  11. #11
    Frost Lore Silence with the 4 suit bonus is key to winning any raid fights that involve lots of war leaders in my opinion this is the best raid skill a LM or any class can bring to the fight.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    Frost Lore Silence with the 4 suit bonus is key to winning any raid fights that involve lots of war leaders in my opinion this is the best raid skill a LM or any class can bring to the fight.
    I use that set sometimes...warleaders don't appreciate it and as soon as they see you doing it they have all the creeps target you lol

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by deathstorm78 View Post
    It has been suggested that audacity gear isn't worthwhile.
    This is very, very wrong.

    While Aud gear is stat wise worse than crafted/instance gear, the +3 Audacity bonus more than makes up the difference. Right now the two things in the moors that will get you killed are Fell/Orc damage and CC. Audacity mitigates both of those and as it's the only way to currently mitigate Fell/Orc damage, not having enough audacity will get you instantly blown up.

    Pretty much the only thing in question is whether or not you want to run 2 pieces from each set (for triple Critical Defence set bonus) or run 4 from 1 and 2 from another. It pretty much depends on how good the 4 piece set bonus is for your class, but for most classes it seems that very few are actually worthwhile over crit defence.

    Beyond those 6 pieces, all your other gear should be whatever you think is best in terms of crafted or instanced level 95 gear. I tend to prioritize (for my minstrel) HP > Crit > Finesse for the Moors, but YMMV depending on how you like to play LM.

    For jewelry, BB gear pretty much beats everything else if you can get the awful RNG to give them to you. Gold set gear especially but even standard plat set will pretty much be better, and the set bonuses are icing.
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