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  1. #1
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    Optimizing 95 2nd Age Bows....

    Fellow Hunters,

    Looking for the best combination of legs on 95 2nd age bow, if going for pure damage. Here's what I'm sitting with now, wondering if it can be tweaked for better ouput:

    243.2 DPS (maxed, with 3 star crystal upgrades)

    (major) -1344 Ranged Skill Evade Chance (rank 1)
    (major) +4.5% Quick Shot Crit Chance (rank 8)
    (major) +22.2% Induction Bow Crit Multiplier (rank 8)
    (major) +22.2% Focus Bow Crit Multiplier (rank 8)
    (minor) +10% Induction Bow Damage (rank 9)
    (minor) +10% Quick Shot Damage (rank 9)
    (minor) +133 Agility (rank 1)

    I tend to run red line, turret-fight style (PvE, no PvMP these days...if I PvMP'd still, I'd def try out yellow line and completely different build).

    Suggestions for tweaks?

    Thanks!


    p.s. Might help to know my rotation too, I just realized. I tend to, when focus is full, hit Upshot, then ISB, then (if target below 70% health) Merc Shot, interspersing frequent Quick Shots to keep Fast Draw at tier 3 and Swift & True available when needed, rounding the rotation out with Pen Shots to use up 'spare' focus (without letting me find myself less than full when Upshot comes around again). Typically goes like: UP, ISB, QS, Merc, QS, Pen, QS, QS, QS, and repeat, something like that. Thanks again!
    Last edited by Angadan; Jan 23 2014 at 01:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Like you say I have a different weapon for every build

    I don't know what you are thinking with the ranged evade chance but I'd hear you out, maybe .

    You underestimate the critical multipliers as today we crit 30-50% of the time. Should max those out first and then go searching.

    Do we have confirmation quickshot crit actually works from a dev? I've never seen it. It is only displayed on tooltip when in precision.

    All in all replace the modifier with hunter bleed damage and tone down on the quick shot crit chance. and 1-2 ranks for quickshot damage. Max the multipliers.

    I have heartseeker on one of my red bows, other hunters detest it, I love it especially with the unmitigated HS bleed you can output a 10-13k just bleed damage in 10 seconds not counting the massive damage of the skill itself.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Gladden | Leader of Shock and Awe
    Original Challenger of Saruman
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  3. #3
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    Cool, thanks. I'll shift what I'm maxing out, as you suggest.

    Not sure I want to put bleed damage in place of -evade, since I never (I mean practically NEVER) get around to putting a Barbed Arrow on a mob. Used to all the time, but now it's sooooo slow and clunky compared to the speed of even my other induction skills (go Swift & True and Fast Draw!). Really just doesn't fit my rotation well.

    Not a huge proponent of -evade or anything, but I didn't see anything else I thought would be more worthwhile. Not throwing any upgrade points into it, just letting it sit there at rank 1 (it's like an Agility leg, you get 95% of the benefit just having it, putting points on it seems a waste for little gain). But if you or anyone else see something other than bleed damage that I could replace it with that would up damage, I'm all ears.

    Any other thoughts?

  4. #4
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    Okay, legs are now at:

    243.2 DPS (maxed, with 3 star crystal upgrades)

    (major) -1344 Ranged Skill Evade Chance (rank 1)
    (major) +2% Quick Shot Crit Chance (rank 3)
    (major) +25% Induction Bow Crit Multiplier (rank 9)
    (major) +25% Focus Bow Crit Multiplier (rank 9)
    (minor) +10% Induction Bow Damage (rank 9)
    (minor) +10% Quick Shot Damage (rank 9)
    (minor) +133 Agility (rank 1)

    Thanks for that suggestion, Yelk. Other than bleed damage, anyone see anything else?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Angadan View Post
    Cool, thanks. I'll shift what I'm maxing out, as you suggest.

    Not sure I want to put bleed damage in place of -evade, since I never (I mean practically NEVER) get around to putting a Barbed Arrow on a mob. Used to all the time, but now it's sooooo slow and clunky compared to the speed of even my other induction skills (go Swift & True and Fast Draw!). Really just doesn't fit my rotation well.

    Not a huge proponent of -evade or anything, but I didn't see anything else I thought would be more worthwhile. Not throwing any upgrade points into it, just letting it sit there at rank 1 (it's like an Agility leg, you get 95% of the benefit just having it, putting points on it seems a waste for little gain). But if you or anyone else see something other than bleed damage that I could replace it with that would up damage, I'm all ears.

    Any other thoughts?
    Well if you want rotation ideas if you never use bleed skills then your at a loss. Barbed arrow can do 1-2k every 2 seconds if you keep it up, if you use it instead of quick shot every 10-12 seconds its a potential for increase of unavoidable damage. There is HS bleed, low cut bleed is also fantastic. Fire damage bleed is also affected I believe which may seem small but if you use CA you will find otherwise. HS bleed. That is just red, if you go blue and yellow there are obvious other ones. Bleeds are a must IMO, but if you don't want to use them that is up to you. I am a big fan of the low cut bleed to in PvE even versus multiple mobs when good ranged skills are down like RoA for aoe.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Gladden | Leader of Shock and Awe
    Original Challenger of Saruman
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  6. #6
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    I agree with poster above re the dots. they're great and one Qs out of 7 or 8 won't be missed. I would consider a fate legacy above the evade if you're adamant you want to avoid dot% though. The reasoning being the fate armour tends to suck compared to the +crit & +pm stuff, so if you go with this way you can keep your crit and pm even higher. Finesse is so plentiful the evade seems pointless.
    Elendilmir - 95 Hunter Berenthalion - 80ish Burg Berendybuck - baby warden Berenion.

    Worst Reaver on the server BerendyBash - R4

  7. #7
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    You guys are really starting to make me rethink Barbed Arrow and bleed damage. I wish it weren't so clunky. But I will definitely try to make it work in my rotation for the next several days. Thanks again for your advice!

    p.s. I understand completely your point re: -evade and finesse (the oodles of it we get just by getting dressed in the morning).

  8. #8
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    I just attacked a poor Galtrev training dummy for a while. Help me understand some of the things I saw:

    (1) Barbed Arrow (I put Hunter DoT leg on my bow and cranked it up to rank 7, so not maxed but +39%) - doesn't seem to add any DPS for me at all. Without it in the rotation, I was running 5,200 - 5,500 DPS. With it, I was running exactly the same range. Does combat analysis not capture bleeds on dummies? I think I heard that somewhere. If not, that would explain the lack of any difference.

    (2) Here's a funny thing you can try. Go out and hit the target with nothing but Quick Shot (and auto-attacks, of course). Over and over. If your results are like mine, you'll find your DPS cranking up to the 4,500 level after Fast Draw is tiered up. Not as high as DPS of a full rotation, but it's funny how that one simple shot alone can get you 80% of the way there. My standard QS is 2,900 or so, it crits for 5,911, and dev crits for 7,200-somethng. And can crank them out faster than one a second for indefinite periods of time. I think Quick Shot is underrated sometimes.
    Last edited by Angadan; Jan 23 2014 at 07:44 PM.

  9. #9
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    The combat reset on the dummies does knock off the bleeds early and might "hide" it's dps. but at the very least you're not worse off

    testing on a boss would work... borrow a healer and try s lair boss or I've heard of people trying stuff in LLG.

    ps. I liked the finesse joke, it's literally hard to avoid :P
    Elendilmir - 95 Hunter Berenthalion - 80ish Burg Berendybuck - baby warden Berenion.

    Worst Reaver on the server BerendyBash - R4

  10. #10
    My build uses precision for focus generation and relies on fast shots, with an option at any point to fire Upshot or Blood Arrow (with enough focus) and proc chances for Swift Bow and Heartseeker to be instant. I still use the Greater Erebor Bowmaster for insta-heartseeker, as the set bonus far outweighs small PMR gains from equipment. So I've gone for Heartseeker damage as a minor. I don't use bleeds much at all.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  11. #11
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    Thanks, guys! Aedfrith, I do miss the focus generation of precision stance since the update, it's the one thing about the switch that I wish I could go back to. I just can't pass up the +20% extra damage of strength stance these days. I did cross into blue to max out Quick Draw (-20% inductions) and Impact Arrows (+5% damage) and a few points in Strong Draw (focus damage). I know that's not near the benefits you're getting from blue (the ability to move and great focus generation foremost, perhaps!). That 20% is just too nice.

    Good idea, Berenthalion, I'll do that with a lair boss. And you gave me the idea for an interesting test. One person goes out and tests DPS against a lair boss...then finds a willing guardian and supporting healer, and tests DPS against them...then finds a willing creep (say a WL) and defiler healer, and tests DPS against them. My suspicion is that our DPS would be a good 20-30% lower against a fellow freep tank than against a creep, and probably 10%-20% lower against the guard than an on-level lair boss. We players are pretty indestructable these days.

    Thanks again, still working on it!

  12. #12
    Anga, just one small correction - I'm running red, but have traited deep into blue so I get the induction and damage bonuses, the 3 focus pips from Precision and even the blood arrow heal. I have all the lovely red benefits. The thinking for me is instant upshots, blood arrows and heartseekers happen so fast, plus over-capped crit, that I don't hit as hard on each shot but have a lot of hard hitting options that I can use fast. With Burn Hot, that means (with no oils) 16k+ instant heartseekers, 20k instant upshots and 12k instant blood arrows ... often. Even when I'm in Endurance to solo 3-man bosses, I can get quite a nice rhythm going.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  13. #13
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    Oh thanks, Aedfrith, I get it now.

  14. #14
    Just to reinforce previous posts, bleeds are very good atm, specially with HS auto-bleeding targets + HS proc set.

    As yelk stated, the -ranged skill evade chance makes no sense man.. Really, dump it and replace it with Bleeds.
    I would also replace QS crit for HS damage - IF you have HS proc erebor set. Our chance of critting QS can be 50% w/o the leg anyway.
    Elunwe Minstrel | Elunduil Hunter | Ellirin Champion | Micolo Burz |

  15. #15
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    Thanks, Elunduil. I've already done the first, absolutely. I can't make Barbed Arrow in specific, or hunter damage over time leg in general, add anything to my DPS. Not sure what I'm missing there.... Yes, they have nice numbers rolling off the target, but my DPS doesn't go up at all. It's like I've just traded one thing for another.

  16. #16
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    I am not playing my hunt now despite her being my main because it is too easy. Im lvling alts but maybe i should give myself something to do by optimising my gear and doing some raid/Skraid content.
    Erowens, 95 - Elf - Hunter
    Rollof, 50 - Man - Champion
    Eraw, 25 - Man - Guardian
    Edhelrieth, 20 - Elf - Loremaster

 

 

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