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  1. #1

    Legacies we would like to see

    How about replacing one of our basically useless legacies like Boar's Rush crit, or resolution damage with a legacy that would increase our Desolation targets?

  2. #2
    Good thread topic, some ideas have been stewing in the back of my head for a bit, so i figured I'd make a list of them all, sorry in advance for the wall-o-text.

    Primary - Major

    Shield Gambit buff duration - This one is fine as-is, imo.
    Spear Gambit Parry rating - I think the Spear shield spear line could use some love in general, which could make the legacy more valuable, but its OK right now.
    Gambit Lifetap Damage - OK as-is
    Into the Fray Attack Duration - Good as-is (though someday I will actually test this for real, since I'm still convinced something is wrong with warden attack durations)
    Wages of Fear Positional Damage - This skill used to be our hardest hitting skill, and atm is quite lackluster. It is outperformed by all the major assailment gambits, even with a positional bonus. Upping the potency of the legacy from +10% (pretty weak) to +50% would make it our hardest hitting skill, but not hugely better than our regular gambits if used positionally, and since its one of our longest cooldown skills wouldn't be as open to the worries of buffing gambits because of their spammability.
    Fist-Spear power cost - -10% is pretty weak for such an already niche legacy. Does anyone really run this? Perhaps make either this, or one of the other power cost legacies into a DbtD power return legacy (more below on this).
    Marked/Diminshed Target mits Debuff - Fine as-is.
    Light Skills Damage - Fine enough as-is, imo.


    Primary - Minor

    Jav skill max range - Already a must have legacy in most scenarios.
    Shield Tactics Tact mit - Wasted legacy. If you are speccing blue, you are carrying enough mits to cap without the skill period. When the skill wasn't spec gated, it had a niche usage, primarily in the moors, but thats long gone. Recommend changing for a +5s to the stun immunity, bringing it up to 15s uptime and a 30s cd.
    Crit Strike Crit Multiplier - Pretty weak legacy, considering the extremely narrow usage of the skill. Boar's rush is pretty sad at the moment (more on that later), leaving primarily assailment builds being able to use crit strike at all, and its a melee skill, most available in a ranged stance.... Recommend making this into a crit strike crit chance legacy, giving +25% when maxed. Again this is a niche skill, on a decent cooldown, and doesn't hit overly hard anyway. If Boar's rush doesn't get some form of update, this legacy should just be scrapped altogether.
    Shield Spear Gambit power cost - See Fist-spear power cost.
    Resolution Damage - An ok legacy actually. could use a minor buff to about 15-20% from 10%, or if the additional damage could be separated from the morale returned to the warden, a more significant 30-50% damage buff (this still wouldn't put wardens at Champ AoE levels, but would make them a bit more viable in that regard.). Buffing the damage by 30-50% when the additional damage functioned as a return to the warden would make an already extremely potent heal WAY over the top.
    Surety of Death DoT damage - Good legacy. It currently works on both Surety of Death and Desolation, but not brink of victory. While I do think the balance of damage between DoT skills and particularly light DoTs is overtuned compared to upfront damage skills, i think this legacy though be changed to Surety of Death Gambit line Damage over time so it effects War-Cry, Brink, Surety, and Desolation.
    Ambush Crit - an OK legacy. Its a bit of a bear to test this one, but so long as it works with the Snap Shot version of ambush, it seems decent enough, if certainly a niche legacy.
    Hampering Javelin duration - Good as-is.
    Boar's Rush critical rating - Another junk legacy as the skill stands now. Boar's rush does #### damage, even on crit, still doesn't respect shield spike damage type and in any stance the skills sole reason for existence is the stun chance. However given the removal of the 25% daze/fear chance on the skill, the low chance to actually get a stun is low enough that the skill just isn't worth it most times. Recommend making the legacy a raw chance for the skill to daze somewhere in the 25-50% range at max rank. I'd rather see this functionality tied to the lackluster 'No Respite for the Wicked" trait in Reckless, since Assailment spec already has an incombat ambush (ideally this would be a 4th tier to the trait than grants an auto-daze on boar's rush if 2 heal debuffs are already present on a target, but +10% chance to daze per rank of the no respite trait would work).

    Secondary - Major

    Shield Gambit line healing - Fine as-is.
    Heal bonus for Conviction - Fine as-is.
    ICPR - Fine as-is.
    Into the Fray ICMR - Fine as-is.
    Spear Shield Damage bonus - Fine as-is.
    Fist Gambit buff Duration - Fine As-is.
    Fist Gambit evade bonus - Stats tend to make this obsolete atm, but given better gear choices in the future, this would again have its uses. To head off any commentary, I think the 'careful shield work' and 'War-Cry' traits in the det spec should become raw +1% avoidance buff for each rank when using a finisher gambit in the respective line, letting us hit 30% for block and evade with the proper buffs up.
    Fist Gambit Critical Rating - Too few gambit benefit from this legacy, and those that actually do have such a low base damage that even if they did, critting on them doesn't change much. Dropping the legacy entirely would be fine by me.
    Spear-Shield Gambit power cost - See fist spear power cost legacy.

    Seconday - Minor

    DC Mitigations per target - fine as-is.
    Ambush and Careful Step induction - Fine as-is.
    Careful Step Duration - Fine as-is.
    Forced March Movement Bonus - Fine as-is.
    Javelin Skills miss-movement penalty - fine as-is.
    Shield Mastery Block - Fine as-is. See fist gambit evade legacy as well.
    Adroit Maneuver duration - With the changes to how the skill function in trait trees, the tightened time frame of gambit rotations thanks to decreased DoT/HoT durations, and the absolutely abysmal damage this skill does, it just flat out isn't worth it to use, even when specced and traited into. Make this a +20s duration instead of +10s, and have it effect both Adroit Maneuver and Warden's Triumph and it will be a viable legacy (and Adroit will be a viable skill again) when specced Reckless.
    Target Resist Rating (Resolution) - Garbage legacy. Updating it to effect the whole fierce resolve line would at least make it a bad legacy, right now its just horrendous though. Recommend simply dropping it.
    Shield Piercer Duration - This skill could use some sprucing up, otherwise its just a 'filler' skill to use when at range but not swapping to assailment, and all the other Jav skills are on CD. Make the skill reduce a targets critical defense or some other more meaningful debuff and the legacy is fine.


    Since I've named a few useless legacies, some alternatives:

    Dark Before the Dawn Power Restore: An either or... This skill currently restores 333 power initially and 2% or max power every 4s for 16s. Either make the legacy effect the initial power restore or the PoT portion. Initial power restore value bonus (in addition to the base 333) could be 267-667 for t1-t9, making the initial restore 600-1000. If the legacy effected the PoT portion, it could give +.33% of max power per rank, meaning t9 would be a +5% max power every 4s, or 25% power pool restore in 16s. I've posted more in-depth on warden power considerations in the past, suffice to say I think either of these legacy options would mean a warden still has to monitor their power, and include this skill, but we would be more on par with other classes (that don't have broken power systems that essentially make them immune to power concerns) in that we don't have to worry about using this skill Every time its buff expires if we're going flat out on gambits to maintain a power pool. (seriously, i run the icpr legacy, and even using this sill every 20s I will run out of power in 4:00 without outside power restores. P.S. Bring back the old DbtD morale gate system for real warden fun.

    Snap Shot Trigger chance - I'm not a huge Assailment user, but the chance to trigger snap shot seems like its under 10%, and if I had to guess is probably around 5%. A 5 tier legacy capping at +5% would be a nice addition to Assailment. I'll save my gripes about the snap shot implementation for another time (NO NEW CLICKIES!!!).

    Marked/Diminished Target duration - +1-9 seconds duration. Legacy and its reasoning should speak for itself.

    A More Elegant Finish - I'm not a fan of the Determination line finisher system of forcing you to build gambits in order, but the T3 passive for the Determination spec's name doesn't require to use 'finisher gambits' as finishers, it enhances their buffs however they are used. Some of the bonuses this trait gives would need a rework, but most provide +2% to a tanking stat, like mitigations or incoming healing. This legacy could give +.33% to each finisher bonus with t9 giving +3% to each bonus. This would mean the potential for +5% mits full-time, and +5% incoming healing full-time. With desolation it would add +3% to the skills miss chance (making miss chance on a target 8 or 10% based on traiting compared to 5 or 7%). Given I already support a +5% option for block and evade through buffs unlocked through traits, making the surety of death parry and evade bonuses +3% would be some serious overkill on overcapped b/p/e buffs, and celebration of skill also has no ready way to apply 3% as a bonus. In my opinion these 2 could be left without being effected by the legacy, thoughts?

    Desolation/Goad targets - A lot of people are looking for this as a legacy. IMO it goes better in the blue line trait 'unassailable' as 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tiers each tier giving +1 to desolation/goad targets (so red wardens dipping into blue for light damage can't have their cake and eat it without sacrifices to red-line bonuses). If this isn't in the cards making it a legacy would be good too, given the important of these skills in tanking and warden's supposedly being the 'premium' AoE tank or w/e D_E said she had in mind in HD beta.



    Hope you enjoyed the wall-o-text, thoughts?

    Also feel free to point out any legacies I forgot, I do feel like i'm missing a Primary - major one.
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Gambit Lifetap Damage - OK as-is

    Resolution Damage - An ok legacy actually. could use a minor buff to about 15-20% from 10%, or if the additional damage could be separated from the morale returned to the warden, a more significant 30-50% damage buff (this still wouldn't put wardens at Champ AoE levels, but would make them a bit more viable in that regard.). Buffing the damage by 30-50% when the additional damage functioned as a return to the warden would make an already extremely potent heal WAY over the top.
    I'd like to see these two legacies merged into 1 single legacy (overflow of useful legacies, not enough points for all) that increases substantially lifetap damage (separated from the heal ofc).
    A 50% damage increase would be a good step forward to polish our AoE tanking.


    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I think the 'careful shield work' and 'War-Cry' traits in the det spec should become raw +1% avoidance buff for each rank when using a finisher gambit in the respective line, letting us hit 30% for block and evade with the proper buffs up.
    100% on spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    some alternatives:

    A More Elegant Finish - I'm not a fan of the Determination line finisher system of forcing you to build gambits in order, but the T3 passive for the Determination spec's name doesn't require to use 'finisher gambits' as finishers, it enhances their buffs however they are used. Some of the bonuses this trait gives would need a rework, but most provide +2% to a tanking stat, like mitigations or incoming healing. This legacy could give +.33% to each finisher bonus with t9 giving +3% to each bonus. This would mean the potential for +5% mits full-time, and +5% incoming healing full-time. With desolation it would add +3% to the skills miss chance (making miss chance on a target 8 or 10% based on traiting compared to 5 or 7%).
    This is another good suggestion too. I specially like the idea of +3% mitigations (making us able to go up to 5% through buffs) but I'd really prefer that DoW and Conviction would be changed to a flat 5% instead of 2% and leave it as it is without implementing another legacy, maybe using a trait in the Blue Tree with 3 Tiers to get that extra 3% mits.


    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Desolation/Goad targets - A lot of people are looking for this as a legacy. IMO it goes better in the blue line trait 'unassailable' as 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tiers each tier giving +1 to desolation/goad targets (so red wardens dipping into blue for light damage can't have their cake and eat it without sacrifices to red-line bonuses). If this isn't in the cards making it a legacy would be good too, given the important of these skills in tanking and warden's supposedly being the 'premium' AoE tank or w/e D_E said she had in mind in HD beta.
    I agree this should better fit in the Blue Tree somewhere to avoid using it while traited for DPS. But I think to totally solve some of the AoE tanking issues we have now, it should affect all our AoE gambits/skills:
    +5 AoE targets ?
    TBH, I wouldn't even mind if it'd go up to +7 AoE targets, and fix the horrible Target Limitation we have since HD once for all.
    That would just put us 4 more targets ahead Guardians. Not much to ask for an AoE tank, right?
    Lifetaps heal could be capped to 10 targets if needed to avoid being OP in the Heal side, but let the Damage affect many more targets.
    DC should also be affected by this.
    Eventhough there are not many 'serious' situations needing more than 10 targets, the situations are still there and we should have the right tools for them, bringing Warden back to its right AoE place.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Surety of Death DoT damage - Good legacy. It currently works on both Surety of Death and Desolation, but not brink of victory. While I do think the balance of damage between DoT skills and particularly light DoTs is overtuned compared to upfront damage skills, i think this legacy though be changed to Surety of Death Gambit line Damage over time so it effects War-Cry, Brink, Surety, and Desolation.
    This legacy works on the Spear of Virtue line as well, so they might as well rename it Fist Gambit DoT damage. At least my testing with it on cows down on the plains provides exactly the same t3 DoT damage for SoD and SoV. All in all a great legacy. With the possibility of the secondary DoT in the SoV line I rarely ever use SoD anymore. Get ganked by a warg, open up with Desolation, followed by SoV and watch them hips and give a defeat notification 10-12 secs later.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by erebusant View Post
    This legacy works on the Spear of Virtue line as well, so they might as well rename it Fist Gambit DoT damage. At least my testing with it on cows down on the plains provides exactly the same t3 DoT damage for SoD and SoV. All in all a great legacy. With the possibility of the secondary DoT in the SoV line I rarely ever use SoD anymore. Get ganked by a warg, open up with Desolation, followed by SoV and watch them hips and give a defeat notification 10-12 secs later.
    Yeah, i should have said this includes both versions of the t3 light DoT and the only t4 light DoT, but neither version of the t2 light DoT or whatever the war-cry/PB and Goad DoTs are referred to in the combat log.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  6. #6
    @spelunker

    Spear Gambit parry is useless since update 12.2 since u easily cap parry now


    Legacys i like to see (some mentioned before in this post, and many others during beta)

    -Desolation Targets
    -Fuse SoD and Light Damage to one Legacy (12%)
    -Marked/Diminished Target De-Buff Duration
    -Pulse Duration (two ranks +1 / +2, should be expensive)
    -Inc Heal (% no rating)
    -Red Tree %Chance to deal the double dot (bleed and fist) increase.
    -Fuse "in the fray icpr and icmr"

 

 

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