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  1. #1
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    Hobbits to Isengard - Q&A with Sapience notes on what was said

    Here's an update thread for people who couldn't make it to the Hobbits to Isengard events, with a few notes about what came out of the Q&A with Sapience and anyone he can get in to chat with us. I will keep posting updates to this thread as the event continues across the various servers.

    The events are livestreamed and archived via the LotRO Twitch page.

    Full Schedule and Standings

    Tips on Getting a Good Time to Isengard For Your Server

    Please note: I am paraphrasing here. Anything said here is coming through my interpretation of what was said, and is subject to being corrected, so don't take all this as the final word.

    If anyone who was present has any additions or corrections, feel free to post.

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Elendilmir

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Evernight

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Crickhollow

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Withywindle

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Gladden

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Laurelin

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Brandywine

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Snowbourn * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Arkenstone

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Vilya

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Bullroarer * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Anduin

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Meneldor

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Vanyar * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Silverlode

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Gwaihir

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Imladris

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Sirannon * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Firefoot

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Maiar * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Landroval * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Estel

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Riddermark * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Eldar

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Dwarrowdelf

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Morthond

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Windfola

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Belegar * Guest(s) present

    Q&A Hobbits to Isengard - Nimrodel
    Last edited by frickinmuck; Jun 07 2014 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    • Could we get an Arena for sparring?
      There is one in the new HD area that was built with the hope that players would use it for sparring. I have no idea where it is - if anyone has any ideas let me know. There is also one in Evendim (at Ost Forod, the second Stone Marker quest takes you there).
    • Will there ever be a Bracketed Sparring Tournament?
      Players have tried doing it. It takes a lot of work but it can be done (by players).
    • Disable sparring timers for tournaments?
      Not likely they will be disabled, but he will pass on the suggestion to make them longer. Someone suggested that if they are extended then sparring should be removed from crafting and auction houses and he said that sounded reasonable.
    It was suggested that the time limit for spars was removed or extended to a minimum of 10 minutes. Also he mentioned there was already a spar arena of some sort added in HD, if I recall correctly. Also people suggested they implemented group spars so fellowships and kinships could spar against each other.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunisequiouS View Post
    Also he mentioned there was already a spar arena of some sort added in HD, if I recall correctly.
    Players tend not to use sparring areas. They've adding sparring areas in the past that end up unused. I asked some sparring players in the market area of Galtrev why they weren't using the sparring area in Galtrev and was just laughed at. Sparring seems to be more about annoying other players, or being bored to death in the public gathering area, than in having an actual arena.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Players tend not to use sparring areas. They've adding sparring areas in the past that end up unused. I asked some sparring players in the market area of Galtrev why they weren't using the sparring area in Galtrev and was just laughed at. Sparring seems to be more about annoying other players, or being bored to death in the public gathering area, than in having an actual arena.
    Just possibly, where people spar is as a result of where they would normally congregate - so back in SoA that would have been outside the West Gate of Bree (hunter port for pickups to go to the Rift), 21st Hall for Moria and SoM, Galtrev for Isengard, Galtrev and by the barterers in Snowborn for RoR etc. I doubt very much that when people spar their main intention is to annoy and grief others, rather it's to beat the other player to get bragging rights, have a bit of fun, pass the time and so forth.

    That said if you can provide the evidence to back up your statement as to it's purpose being to annoy then I will be more than happy to reconsider my own view

    Edit - but of course we can have that chat off line so to speak. Don't want to derail the thread any more
    <A sig goes here>

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Please note: I am paraphrasing here. Anything said here is coming through my interpretation of what he said, and is subject to being corrected by him so don't take all this as gospel.
    Thanks very much for doing this.

    I'm hoping Turbine can post actual responses, or better yet transcripts on this forum so that customers don't have to do the work of summarizing what they say during an event that relatively few people can attend.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occum View Post
    I'm hoping Turbine can post actual responses, or better yet transcripts on this forum so that customers don't have to do the work of summarizing what they say during an event that relatively few people can attend.
    It's an extremely informal event - just casual in-game fun with people being able to chat with Sapience and a dev or two from time to time, and ask some questions. Not something where there needs to be official transcripts. I did this as a favour to people who couldn't attend, not 'as a customer doing the work of a company.' What an attitude.

    There are going to be 29 of these in total, so there will be plenty of time for people to hop in one and ask a few questions of their own.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Disable sparring timers for tournaments?
    Not likely they will be disabled, but he will pass on the suggestion to make them longer. Someone suggested that if they are extended then sparring should be removed from crafting and auction houses and he said that sounded reasonable.
    I could go for that tradeoff.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    • When will players council members be changing up?
      They will be changing at anniversary time. A few exceptionally helpful members will be staying on, but the rest will be replaced. Applications will be posted in the forums.
    They appear to be making it up as they go along. there are only a few members on the players council, and for them to keep some of them on, goes completely against what they said last year.

    It also means that, even if this isn't factually correct, it certainly gives the impression to most of us that they want to keep a few of the council members on as they are both very good friends, and they agree with what Turbine are doing (yes men/women) etc etc etc.

    What does exceptionally helpful mean? Turbine introduce an idea that other council members say wont go down well, but these exceptional people grovel and say it's the best thing since sliced bread?

    if certain members stand a chance to be permanently on the council if they suck up to Turbine, I think that is likely to affect what they say to Turbine about their decisions.

    My views on the council have got me in trouble in the past, so I wont repeat them here, what I will say is that this decision makes a very bad thing a lot worse.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glumposneak View Post
    They appear to be making it up as they go along. there are only a few members on the players council, and for them to keep some of them on, goes completely against what they said last year.

    It also means that, even if this isn't factually correct, it certainly gives the impression to most of us that they want to keep a few of the council members on as they are both very good friends, and they agree with what Turbine are doing (yes men/women) etc etc etc.

    What does exceptionally helpful mean? Turbine introduce an idea that other council members say wont go down well, but these exceptional people grovel and say it's the best thing since sliced bread?

    if certain members stand a chance to be permanently on the council if they suck up to Turbine, I think that is likely to affect what they say to Turbine about their decisions.

    My views on the council have got me in trouble in the past, so I wont repeat them here, what I will say is that this decision makes a very bad thing a lot worse.
    I found this interesting also, since it says here:

    "How long will the council serve? Can you be on the council forever? Who has oversight of the council?

    The council will serve for a period of one calendar year. No player may serve on two consecutive councils. Towards the end of each year the council will be responsible for making recommendations for a small council that will be responsible for suggesting changes and improvements to the council system. "

    I'm not saying I have a problem with changing things up to make things work better. This player's council is a new thing and some changes to how it works can keep it working the way it is intended to work. I am glad to hear that some members have proven themselves exceptionally helpful.

    However, I am also a fan of consistency and keeping to your word. They made this council 150% of the initial proposed size because it was incredibly difficult to choose so few from such a large pool of awesome applicants. I would think they would be excited to choose a whole new crew to maximize their exposure to the aforementioned awesome factor. I also think it builds integrity to say you're going to do something and then follow through with it. It builds trust. Keeping some members but not others also sends a message that you appreciated some members' contributions less than others', and that seems like a likely start to some hard feelings.

    Since it remains mysterious what goes on in the secret council room, we can't really say what constitutes 'more' or 'less' helpful in terms of what they are doing, but I bet those members are more the sort to produce long write-ups and thorough analyses of proposed ideas, people who say 'yes' or 'no' followed by detailed explanations. At least, I hope that's what's going on.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glumposneak View Post
    They appear to be making it up as they go along. there are only a few members on the players council, and for them to keep some of them on, goes completely against what they said last year.

    It also means that, even if this isn't factually correct, it certainly gives the impression to most of us that they want to keep a few of the council members on as they are both very good friends, and they agree with what Turbine are doing (yes men/women) etc etc etc.

    What does exceptionally helpful mean? Turbine introduce an idea that other council members say wont go down well, but these exceptional people grovel and say it's the best thing since sliced bread?

    if certain members stand a chance to be permanently on the council if they suck up to Turbine, I think that is likely to affect what they say to Turbine about their decisions.

    My views on the council have got me in trouble in the past, so I wont repeat them here, what I will say is that this decision makes a very bad thing a lot worse.
    Yes, it does go against what they said last year. Thankfully some people, when trying out a new thing, take what they learn from the experience and use it to modify their strategy. If everyone stuck with their initial plan all the time, arbitrarily for no other reason than because it was their initial plan, then everything would be a gong show.

    And this is a perfect example of how attitude defines our interpretation of things. You read "exceptionally helpful" and interpreted it as "people who grovel and suck up to Turbine" and I read "exceptionally helpful" and interpreted it as "people who challenged Turbine and gave them insights they didn't have before" or "people who put an exceptional amount of time and commitment into giving a lot of solid constructive insight and feedback."

    Of course, at this moment we have no real way of knowing which interpretation is closer to the truth, but we won't have long to wait because I've no doubt they will give some explanation when it comes time to post the applications and let the players know who will be staying and who will be replaced.

    And just to comment on "permanency." There was NO statement or implication that anyone would be there permanently. It could be that some members were helping with particular projects and will be staying on to see them through, or it could be that they will do another term and then be replaced as well. We have no information on that yet.

    Also, "exceptionally helpful" was my phrase. I cannot remember his exact words, so I've given my best shot at conveying what he said.
    Last edited by frickinmuck; Jan 18 2014 at 03:05 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glumposneak View Post
    They appear to be making it up as they go along. there are only a few members on the players council, and for them to keep some of them on, goes completely against what they said last year.

    It also means that, even if this isn't factually correct, it certainly gives the impression to most of us that they want to keep a few of the council members on as they are both very good friends, and they agree with what Turbine are doing (yes men/women) etc etc etc.

    What does exceptionally helpful mean? Turbine introduce an idea that other council members say wont go down well, but these exceptional people grovel and say it's the best thing since sliced bread?
    To a certain extent, we ARE making it up as we go along. Well, I guess it would be more accurate to say we make adjustments as we go along. Sometimes things work well on paper, but in practice become wonky. Those who think that Turbine has hand picked a group of "yes men" will probably continue to think that, and holding a few over won't change that opinion one way or the other. But neither would starting with fresh faces. My understanding is that holding a few over is also to help get the next group started and smooth the transition. Once again, I invite you all to apply for the next term.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    To a certain extent, we ARE making it up as we go along. Well, I guess it would be more accurate to say we make adjustments as we go along. Sometimes things work well on paper, but in practice become wonky. Those who think that Turbine has hand picked a group of "yes men" will probably continue to think that, and holding a few over won't change that opinion one way or the other. But neither would starting with fresh faces. My understanding is that holding a few over is also to help get the next group started and smooth the transition. Once again, I invite you all to apply for the next term.
    Once again I have no interest in applying as I don't think the idea of the council is a good one.

    What I will say is that if the council has to exist, if it wasn't such a secretive thing, then the opinion I have and the opinion many others have may well be very different.

    It could be that the council are having a battle with Turbine, tearing their hair out at the way the game has gone, it could be they are best of friends and agree with each other and mock those that don't like the changes behind our backs (I have moderated a forum in the past and sadly many mods did just that), or it could be 1000 other things.

    Thing is, we (non council members) don't know and when you have a secret society, rumors will naturally be rampant.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glumposneak View Post
    Once again I have no interest in applying as I don't think the idea of the council is a good one.
    That's too bad. You clearly have a lot of ideas and suggestions. It is also the very best way to KNOW what happens on the council. Which I think is part of the reason many won't apply. Many people don't seem to want to know. They're happier with rhetoric.

    What I will say is that if the council has to exist, if it wasn't such a secretive thing, then the opinion I have and the opinion many others have may well be very different.
    This is a debatable point. It is entirely likely that even massive transparency would simply result in more focused attacks on us, rather than the general vagueness we get to deal with now. There's an old saying, "A man convinced against his will, is of his own opinion still."


    Thing is, we (non council members) don't know and when you have a secret society, rumors will naturally be rampant.
    First, use of phrases like "Secret Society" seem to be an attempt to inflate the ire. That's why we tend to ignore posts containing that. (yes, that means that sometimes good ideas get missed. Don't bury your good idea in rhetoric filled post.) Second, its the internet. Rumors run rampant regardless of facts. Sometimes, in spite of them.

  14. #14
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occum View Post
    Thanks very much for doing this.

    I'm hoping Turbine can post actual responses, or better yet transcripts on this forum so that customers don't have to do the work of summarizing what they say during an event that relatively few people can attend.
    Because this is all conversation and spoken, there is no written transcript and none is planned. Anyone can watch these on twitch and they are also archived there so you can rewatch them


    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Yes, it does go against what they said last year. Thankfully some people, when trying out a new thing, take what they learn from the experience and use it to modify their strategy. If everyone stuck with their initial plan all the time, arbitrarily for no other reason than because it was their initial plan, then everything would be a gong show.
    I think the selective quoting of the announcement should be properly addressed by spelling out that we are keeping our word as it was given as written in the full text of the announcement. The small council came and we are making changes based on their feedback and exactly what we said in the original announcement...


    The Small Council Shall…

    • Participate in a face to face meeting with the LOTRO Team and Turbine staff if asked. Location to be decided by Turbine. (Travel expenses to be provided by Turbine.)
    • Provide feedback to Turbine and the LOTRO Team on the performance of the Player Council.
    • Suggest changes, improvements, or revisions to the Player Council.
    So as you can see, we are keeping our word and the small council did exactly what they were supposed to do and we listened. No, for those who wish to continue to post false and misleading information, I remind you that it is a violation of the community guidelines.

  15. #15
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    [*]Could we ever take a passenger on a horse?
    It’s useful to think of horses as “horse pants” because that is essentially what they are, so that creates a technical issue that makes passengers extremely unlikely to ever happen.
    I think it's possible. Already from a year back maybe:



    Weird back seat passenger.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I just wanted to post a bit of an update thread for people who couldn't be at the Hobbits to Isengard event today, with a few notes about what came out of the Q/A with Sapience. I will keep posting updates to this thread whenever I am able to attend a HtI event.

    Please note: I am paraphrasing here. Anything said here is coming through my interpretation of what he said, and is subject to being corrected by him so don't take all this as gospel.

    If anyone who was present has any additions or corrections, feel free to post.

    Q/A Hobbits to Isengard - Elendilmir

    • Any updates to the Moors planned?
      There is some stuff Jinjaah is working on that Sapience is not at liberty to discuss. Jinjaah talked at length about the Moors with a PvP player’s council member when they were out to Turbine, and it seemed a productive discussion.
      Other questions re: Moors were around the visuals and graphics in the moors – will they be getting a significant update anytime soon, and Sapience was saying no, the focus will not likely be on the look or the graphics.
      There were some fairly technical moors-related questions asked that I didn't quite follow, and Sapience said he's going to leave those to Jinjaah when he's able to come in and do the event, which he does plan on doing at some future point when he has time. A few players stepped in at this point and said that they did know the answers to some of those questions, and apparently a lot of the fixes for the issues discussed are coming next update, 12.2 (which Sapience said should probably be live next week sometime).
    • When will players council members be changing up?
      They will be changing at anniversary time. A few exceptionally helpful members will be staying on, but the rest will be replaced. Applications will be posted in the forums.
    • Is there an age limit for players council?
      Yes, you have to be 18+
    • Whatever happened to the global chat channel that was discussed before HD?
      It is by no means dead – they are still working on it. A lot of it depends on when an engineer is available and has nothing else to do, which isn’t often. They need to also consider how many chat channels (if more than one) and what they might be.
    • Any update on the housing changes and what the timeline may be?
      He has no news about that at the moment but will pass it on the second he does.
    • Could we get an Arena for sparring?
      There is one in the new HD area that was built with the hope that players would use it for sparring. I have no idea where it is - if anyone has any ideas let me know. There is also one in Evendim (at Ost Forod, the second Stone Marker quest takes you there).
    • Will there ever be a Bracketed Sparring Tournament?
      Players have tried doing it. It takes a lot of work but it can be done (by players).
    • Disable sparring timers for tournaments?
      Not likely they will be disabled, but he will pass on the suggestion to make them longer. Someone suggested that if they are extended then sparring should be removed from crafting and auction houses and he said that sounded reasonable.
    • Bounders Bounty rewards, when will they be up?
      As far as he knows they’re still working on getting the names together for the various statues on every server, so not quite ready yet, but will make a post when there’s more info.
    • Will Hobnobigans be returning? (this one comes up every HtI run)
      Sapience says he will never give up on trying to get the devs to bring it back. It’s just one of those things that has to take a lower priority to other things so may take awhile.
    • Will the devs ever play huge trolls in-game?
      Never say never. Could happen.
    • Could we ever take a passenger on a horse?
      It’s useful to think of horses as “horse pants” because that is essentially what they are, so that creates a technical issue that makes passengers extremely unlikely to ever happen.
    • What is the likelihood we will someday get a boat or a horse cart ‘mount’ even just for fun?
      He doesn’t think anything like that is in the works but he will pass the suggestion along.
    Thank you for taking your personal time and posting this for other players to see.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000002091f0/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 

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