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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rosey21 View Post
    Ah but there has been more added. See until today, I have not seen Sapience say "the license was renewed". Anytime this subject has been brought up, you have only gotten the answer "we plan to support the game for years to come". Some did not think that was a direct enough answer. So now you have it...

    THE LICENSE HAS BEEN RENWED!!!!!!!!!! TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!
    You notice the question as to how long the license has been renewed was ignored. It could have been renewed for 1 years, 2 years, or all the way through 2017. No way to know unless they make an announcement. Regardless, it's safe to assume LotRO will be around through the end of 2014 at the least.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I think it's rather clear and direct. I can't think of a more direct way to say the license was renewed than to say the license was renewed.
    You can't think of a more direct way to say it? Really?

    How about "The license has been renewed until xxxx date?"

  3. #28
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    For how long?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    Until when, if I may ask?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidnova78 View Post
    You notice the question as to how long the license has been renewed was ignored. It could have been renewed for 1 years, 2 years, or all the way through 2017. No way to know unless they make an announcement. Regardless, it's safe to assume LotRO will be around through the end of 2014 at the least.
    We have an agreement that runs through 2017.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We have an agreement that runs through 2017.
    Ok you know this is coming... LOL

    What happens after 2017?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We have an agreement that runs through 2017.
    I can't figure out if you're trolling here, or simply unaware of how patronizing this is...

    You say that you can't think of a more direct way to say it, but this answer is so obviously evasive it's hilarious.

    An 'agreement' that runs through 2017. What agreement? That LOTRO is evaluated yearly and will decide periodically if it is going to keep paying for the license? Or that, if LOTRO fails to deliver, the license will be pulled? An 'agreement' could mean anything.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We have an agreement that runs through 2017.
    Now, everyone bookmark this post so you can link it as soon as someone asks a) if the license was renewed and b) until when.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    I can't figure out if you're trolling here, or simply unaware of how patronizing this is...

    You say that you can't think of a more direct way to say it, but this answer is so obviously evasive it's hilarious.

    An 'agreement' that runs through 2017. What agreement? That LOTRO is evaluated yearly and will decide periodically if it is going to keep paying for the license? Or that, if LOTRO fails to deliver, the license will be pulled? An 'agreement' could mean anything.
    Step away from the tinfoil.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 40 HNT :.

    I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.
    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    Now, everyone bookmark this post so you can link it as soon as someone asks a) if the license was renewed and b) until when.
    Why? He didn't say the license was renewed until 2017. He said the license was renewed - and that they have an agreement that runs through 2017. Not the same thing.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    Step away from the tinfoil.
    I'd love to know that I'm not being paranoid. Sapience, can you please show me I'm being a fool, and tell us directly that the license has been renewed until 2017?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    I can't figure out if you're trolling here, or simply unaware of how patronizing this is...

    You say that you can't think of a more direct way to say it, but this answer is so obviously evasive it's hilarious.

    An 'agreement' that runs through 2017. What agreement? That LOTRO is evaluated yearly and will decide periodically if it is going to keep paying for the license? Or that, if LOTRO fails to deliver, the license will be pulled? An 'agreement' could mean anything.
    Evasive?

    You expect them to deliver you a copy of the full agreement before you will believe the statment that they are planning on continuing development.


    Tell you what, let me be direct as well. Play the game if you enjoy it. Today. Not if you think it will be here a year from now or not.

    If you are not enjoying the game, find one you can enjoy. There are many out there.

    Otherwise you will make yourself crazy, and quite possibly other people as well.
    LilyRose of Gladden, Mistress of the Rangers of the West Kinship. Come check out our kin at rangerswest.guildlaunch.com.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarooOstrich View Post
    You should have stated this as clearly as this way back when.
    They was no need to string along the community making them guess and formulate conspiracy theories....
    No matter how it was stated by the Harbinger of Soon, there are still folks that would be posting the gloom and doom about end of the game.
    Sometimes, the 'understanding' of what is typed when left to the reader, is about as clear as mud.

    by the way...server merging in my opinion is NEVER a good idea, i was on ddo when that happened, problems for weeks afterward
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000002781a9/01008/signature.png]Lestaht[/charsig]

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  12. #37
    Why do people care so much about the damn licence, yes okay it is very important... SO WHAT?! If the game is good, sells well and makes money the licence will always be continued. I think it is much more likely that the game would be discontinued because of lack of profit/ lack of players. A successful game will not just suddenly end tomorrow abruptly because it has no license, yet there is still a demand for it. Stop worrying about the damn license and worry about if turbine is actually going to continue developing the game or if they might just sideline it for a newer project!

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    Why? He didn't say the license was renewed until 2017. He said the license was renewed - and that they have an agreement that runs through 2017. Not the same thing.
    You're not going to get the answer you want. Even if the license was renewed it doesn't mean wb would continue to produce lotro for its duration. Of course it's renewed, there's films in progress, they're not going to let go of any rights. Probably ever. It's not like wb needed to save up to pay for it. But having the rights so someone else can't make lotro is a far cry from lotro up and running thru 2017. Lotro is going to be up until it's not. There are no guarantees.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bel-Astarte View Post
    Tell you what, let me be direct as well. Play the game if you enjoy it. Today. Not if you think it will be here a year from now or not.

    If you are not enjoying the game, find one you can enjoy. There are many out there.

    Otherwise you will make yourself crazy, and quite possibly other people as well.
    How can you criticize me for wanting to know how long this game is going to be supported before I invest more time and spend more money?

    Secondly, if we are being 'direct,' I'm a paying customer and have been paying two VIP subs since SoA launch. Like with any investment, I gather information before I invest. Here, I'm simply trying to gather information about LOTRO before I invest time and money into it, when it's possible that they could shut down the servers in one year, rendering all that time and money of no future value.

    Evasive?

    You expect them to deliver you a copy of the full agreement before you will believe the statment that they are planning on continuing development.
    It's actually quite simple. I will believe that the license has been extended until 2017 when Sapience says that the license has been extended until 2017. He has not said that so far, despite being asked multiple times - which to me, appears evasive.

  15. #40
    WOW just WOW, game is falling apart after their customer base sent them a clear message that an xpack is NOT an xpack without a real raid...... and STILL they do NOTHING about it except watch it burn

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    How can you criticize me for wanting to know how long this game is going to be supported before I invest more time and spend more money?

    Secondly, if we are being 'direct,' I'm a paying customer and have been paying two VIP subs since SoA launch. Like with any investment, I gather information before I invest. Here, I'm simply trying to gather information about LOTRO before I invest time and money into it, when it's possible that they could shut down the servers in one year, rendering all that time and money of no future value.



    It's actually quite simple. I will believe that the license has been extended until 2017 when Sapience says that the license has been extended until 2017. He has not said that so far, despite being asked multiple times - which to me, appears evasive.
    Are you paying for subscriptions years in advance then? I have purchased annual subs myself, but haven't seen any multi-year subs on offer.

    I criticize you for setting an unreasonable standard, and for being kinda rude in doing so.

    Decide to continue to play or not based on whether you are enjoying the game. Or find one you can enjoy. Which will also be unable to guarantee how long it will be open, btw.

    And with that, the best advice I can offer, I'll bid you happy gaming.
    LilyRose of Gladden, Mistress of the Rangers of the West Kinship. Come check out our kin at rangerswest.guildlaunch.com.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    Why? He didn't say the license was renewed until 2017. He said the license was renewed - and that they have an agreement that runs through 2017. Not the same thing.
    In my job, the item under discussion is usually called a licensing agreement, and we use both interchangeably. For us, it IS the same thing.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto_the_First View Post
    In my job, the item under discussion is usually called a licensing agreement, and we use both interchangeably. For us, it IS the same thing.
    Unless it's an agreement with embedded options, which is what Turbine PR'd in 2008:

    WESTWOOD, MA – February 20, 2008 – Turbine, Inc. announced today that in the wake of the global success of The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™, named the 2007 PC Game of the Year*, it has reached an agreement with Tolkien Enterprises to extend it’s license to develop Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Games (MMORPG) based on The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien to 2014 with additional options to extend the rights until 2017.
    So they have had an agreement that extends through 2017 for some time. Anyways, I would bet that the license is being extended on a year-by-year basis, but I don't expect anything more definitive than what Sapience has stated in this thread.
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  19. #44
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    Just because the license is extended till 2017 doesn't mean they will develop the game till 2017. It likely means we are nearing the stage where LotRO is entering the maintenance mode years with minor updates and no significant new development invested.
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  20. #45
    If I could ask all the devs one question I would ask this.

    With no new instances planned what do you expect people who play a max level character to do for an entire year, or possibly more?

    I refuse to be the ###### who blurts out you lost another customer because when I leave I won't say a word, you just won't hear from me again. However, from a business perspective I fail to see this game maintaining any business model.

    Let me educate you on what a winning-model is: Satisfying the customer, market niche, cost, strength vs competition, profit.

    I honestly don't remember the last time I talked to someone who was satisfied with end game content.

    The whole problem to this is whoever is in charge of marketing decided the niche should be new players. "Let us revamp Moria" Every single quest to make it easier and more attractive. Let us revamp Bree, make a new region here just so new players can spend time in it." Role-play, music, housing!!!

    You know what? I'm not criticizing these things, in fact I think they are wonderful. The point is if you were focusing the brunt of your efforts on end-game and taking RISK to focus on PvMP, raiding and classes you would have loyal customers, who in this case are hard core MMO players referring this game, staying and spending more money through the store and subscription. These referrals would go out to other loyal gamers. By keeping the current population base and growing through referrals instead of introductory advertising you could grow slowly (this is where long-term comes into effect) and eventually have the strength to assign certain devs to revamping, housing and all of that. Instead you are using advertising to get a fat population of players that come and go and implementing turbine store motivation for end-game players who want to max out characters. I'm sure it has helped maintain stable numbers population wise, however, the effects will catch up with this "year without rain."

    This could the greatest game ever created with new servers to fix lag, communication between devs and players, renewed passion and focus on loyal customers not new.

    I'm staying for now but only for the others left on this deserted Island and the possibility of that airplane...
    Last edited by YesMaam; Jan 13 2014 at 03:20 PM.

  21. #46
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    Developing a new game (Infinite Crisis), while simultaneously developing TWO expansions for existing games (Helms Deep and the recent DDO Expansion) are not the actions of a company losing money.

    Just saying...
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  22. #47
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    I too would like to see Sapience CLEARLY state something like "the option in the original licensing agreement to extend until 2017 as been fulfilled. Lotro will continue development for 3 more years!" But obviously that is too hard to do, and I don't blame them. If T-mobile announced that they will be down-sizing lots of cell towers in my area, then I sure wouldn't start up a new contract with T-mobile.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    Developing a new game (Infinite Crisis), while simultaneously developing TWO expansions for existing games (Helms Deep and the recent DDO Expansion) are not the actions of a company losing money.

    Just saying...
    Nobody said Turbine is losing money as a whole, but each one of their projects is evaluated separately I'm sure. I'm not even saying that LotRO is losing money now, it is probably profitable. However, just being profitable is not always enough to justify a game's existence. It's a question of opportunity cost.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    Developing a new game (Infinite Crisis), while simultaneously developing TWO expansions for existing games (Helms Deep and the recent DDO Expansion) are not the actions of a company losing money.

    Just saying...
    True, if you could call HD something they even put money into. The amount of issues and bugs with HD and the lack of well, anything suggests little $ was put into it. I don't play the other games but if it is from the same people nothing would suprise me. My point wasnt they won't go bankrupt, I may have not made that clear. My point is the point of a business is to make a profit and benefit people not float around. They are floating, at least in LOTRO, the potential for $ is huge.

    After the release of 12.1 I made a known issues thread that was so massive I actually enjoyed making it. It got deleted, why I'm sure it is obvious. My main reason for the thread was motivated due to multiple things being in the patch notes that were not there. (Ex. BB bug fixes, new pvmp changes) It is one thing to not say anything, or say you won't do something but to release of a list of changes and for hardly any of them to be there me and many people I know considered the possibility of them publishing an entire wrong file...however after a MONTH we still have not a single known issues thread by a dev for 12.1...
    Last edited by YesMaam; Jan 13 2014 at 03:14 PM.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by YelksTomeOfDefence View Post
    How can you criticize me for wanting to know how long this game is going to be supported before I invest more time and spend more money? ... I'm a paying customer ... Like with any investment, I gather information before I invest. Here, I'm simply trying to gather information about LOTRO before I invest ... I will believe that the license has been extended until 2017 when Sapience says that the license has been extended until 2017. He has not said that so far, despite being asked multiple times - which to me, appears evasive.
    Hmm, why would you treat entertainment like an investment? This is strictly pay-as-you-go. You don't check the futures market on a vineyard before you buy a bottle of wine. You don't check the financials of a movie company before you go see Harry Potter IV. You don't quiz the team owner about 2015 plans before you head to the football game. Entertainment is entertainment. Investments are investments. Different animals.

    Don't think "investing my time" counts: you play because you want to play. Playing is not work; so you can't count it as sweat equity.

    As for "investing my money," you never need invest more than 30 days in advance (monthly subs) to enjoy everything this game has to offer. Committing farther in advnce than that is purely your option.

    As for Sapience using squirrelly language, you're right, he has been. For months now. I personally believe the negotiations were ongoing when the word was, "We intend to keep supporting the game for years to come." Now that a deal has been signed, Sapience sought out an opportunity to "be very clear" with an agreement that runs to 2017. Like you, I suspect there are options in the agreement that would allow one or both parties to terminate prior to the 2017 date. But to pound on Sapience' metaphorical desk and demand details is childish. Turbine will tell you and us what it wants to, when it wants to.

    In the meantime, you get to make your entertainment choices however you desire. My only recommendation is, don't mistakenly think you're investing...unless you go out and buy some WB stock.

 

 
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