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Thread: PvP BASED Kin

  1. #1

    PvP BASED Kin

    After reading up on the forums, and talking around with different people, i have seen that there might be a want for a PvP based Kin on Arkenstone.. this would be a change from the kins that do run PvP raids, but focus on PvE content mainly.

    We instead, as you could guess, would focus on PvP mainly.. and give a greater attention to getting our members geared up and helping them adjust to the PvP (how to fight, tactics, ect..).. we would not only be striving to have just small successes in our fights out there, but would be striving to dominate the opponent (Of course right??) every time we step out there...

    Now, noticing that the game is deeply intertwined to get Jewellery and Virtues and stuff through PvE and doing End - Game content, we would of course work together as a kin to run these and get the best possible traits , jewellery ect for our members... cause you cannot be a succsessful pvper without these.

    For those of you who do not know me yet, I am Cintona (Rank 11) Reaver, and have a bunch of different assortment of Creeps and Deok (Rank 6).. I have played all 6 years , starting shortly after the game came out of beta, In my time in lotro I have earned about 1,000,000 Infamy/ Renown points , And have lead successfully in the Moors for about 2-3 years.. And i believe this Kin , if i was to start it, would be very succsessful, it would (hopefully) not only bring in some very valuable experienced players into the fold, but also intrigue the newcommers to PVP

    I can answer more of your questions if you have them, this is just a brief overlook... I am merely just checking to see if there would be a positive response and people wanting to join the Kin

    I will most likely be starting this Kin in the next few days if there is positive responses

    Deok/Cintona
    .

    Freeps- Deok lvl 95 Hunter
    Creeps - Cintona Rank 11 Darkblits Rank 7

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I respect the fact that you want to make a difference. However I don't see your plan actually being very successfull. As you stated you need PvE to get gear/virtues ect... So you need a balanced kin that does both. You however want to focus more on the PvP nature of things, I understand that. But what you are also looking to achieve is to successfully pull people that currently PvP out of their kinship they are already a part of to simply join yours. That will fail. Many of our Moors regulars are important figures to the kinship they are in. Nimitar is the main officer of Riders of Rohan. Maie is the kin leader of Meaning of Haste. Casinoari is an officer in Shadow and Flame. Just as some examples. Many other moors regulars enjoy doing their own thing and not being a giant kinship zerg ball. Beeonick for example.

    When Middle Earth Warriors was the main freepside kinship, it's raids were lead by Rahbrigul. If you remember Rahb was not the kinship leader until way later. Tyrone was, and while Rahb was doing his PvP stuff, Ty was doing the PvE stuff. An example that a kinship does not need to be specifically PvP to accomplish better coordination and strength... which is what your goal seems to be with this idea.

    I applaud your idea to do something creative to improve our Arkenstone PvP - However I don't see it working out if you can't get the vets to merge into your kin.

    A more productive achievement for you, would to try to actually get the scattered kinship freeps that are out these days to work together.
    [img]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/314797/BloodloafNewSig.png[/img]

    Some Uruks rank so slow it would impress the Ents themselves.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BloodLoaf View Post
    I respect the fact that you want to make a difference. However I don't see your plan actually being very successfull. As you stated you need PvE to get gear/virtues ect... So you need a balanced kin that does both. You however want to focus more on the PvP nature of things, I understand that. But what you are also looking to achieve is to successfully pull people that currently PvP out of their kinship they are already a part of to simply join yours. That will fail. Many of our Moors regulars are important figures to the kinship they are in. Nimitar is the main officer of Riders of Rohan. Maie is the kin leader of Meaning of Haste. Casinoari is an officer in Shadow and Flame. Just as some examples. Many other moors regulars enjoy doing their own thing and not being a giant kinship zerg ball. Beeonick for example.

    When Middle Earth Warriors was the main freepside kinship, it's raids were lead by Rahbrigul. If you remember Rahb was not the kinship leader until way later. Tyrone was, and while Rahb was doing his PvP stuff, Ty was doing the PvE stuff. An example that a kinship does not need to be specifically PvP to accomplish better coordination and strength... which is what your goal seems to be with this idea.

    I applaud your idea to do something creative to improve our Arkenstone PvP - However I don't see it working out if you can't get the vets to merge into your kin.

    A more productive achievement for you, would to try to actually get the scattered kinship freeps that are out these days to work together.
    Thanks for noticing blood, but its not me making the difference, it the other creeps out there.... but, in response to what you said, trying not to start on an argument... You have valid points about the PvE... but honestly it is impossible to be GREAT without doing the PvE content... too be honest you could probably make it in PvE land have in 2 raid nights a week specifically handed out... getting the virtues is the harder portion of PvP...

    To answer you about me trying to pull leaders and officers from their other kins... I think we realized that isn't what I am going for.. I do not want to weaken other kins ...... But, I think we can both realize that there are other people around who are kinless.. who might enjoy the opprrtunity if they love PvP to join a PvP centered kin .... BTW you dong need a super experienced officers bunch to lead a kin like this... if people have questions that I or a few others can't answer I will shoot them around to Maei , Cas , Beo, Tyrone , Lyllin , ect .. I think you will realize, especially with me, if there is a will there is a way.. if I can find people interested..... I will start it.. and we WILL succeed ... regardless I will give it my all to improve the PvP

    BTW: I didn't put it in first post... if you are interested in joining a kin like this.. please mail Deok in game!!
    .

    Freeps- Deok lvl 95 Hunter
    Creeps - Cintona Rank 11 Darkblits Rank 7

  4. #4
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    I commend your tenacity and wish you best of luck. I hope for the sake of pvp that other players and leaders will take notice of your desire to create a greater community among freeps.

    God speed

    -Medic
    Tsaurel/Telae - SVP

  5. #5
    I've seen PvMP-centric kinships do very, very well on other servers. While I wasn't around for MeW, my guess is that they did as well as they did because a lot of their focus was on PvMP. Conversely, here on Arkenstone, most players get their PvMP experience by the trial and error method.

    Additionally, because most freep groups are pugs, there often is very little coordination of group efforts beyond staying with the group and staying on the raid assist targets. In PvE raiding, kinships spend a lot of time discussing how to coordinate their efforts in a raid like BfE or Flight. Without the coordinated use of CC and debuffs, doing those raids in challenge mode wouldn't be possible. That's an area where creeps have an advantage at the moment. In many cases, they've spent a long time playing together, and they've learned how to coordinate their efforts. It's not unusual at all for me to find myself in a situation where I've been rooted, stunned, blighted, silenced, disarmed and otherwise debuffed and CCed while I'm being focus fired. I don't see that being done on freepside as often as I'd like to. Too often, it's just straight out DPS or heals, and the CC and debuffing is lacking. I want to hear champ horns, see fire lore on reavers, wind lore on BAs, slows and stuns on kiting targets, fears and incoming healing debuffs being used. In a lot of freep pugs, these types of things are just way under utilized. That's an area where discussing strats and experience working together counts for a lot.

    On smaller servers, you'll sometimes see very effective 'Alliances' too. Where there aren't enough people in any one kin to raid consistently, raiding alliances can be very effective. Alternatively, a raiding kinship the offers new people an opportunity to learn the ins and out of PvMPing while also helping them get the gear to do so would likely mean more new freeps who have an interest in PvMPing would stick around. If that was supplemented by kin ally status members who were experienced PvMPers from other kinships, I could see this being very successful.
    Last edited by Nouri; Jan 13 2014 at 01:51 PM.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Wasn't saying your trying to pull leaders and officers specifically. Was saying that in your original post, you wanted to bring some experienced players along to and well I just see that as a long shot for most. But don't take my response the wrong way... I do hope you are successfull.

    When I created MB it was much easier to build because at the time we had multiple broken tribes about. Bloodthirsty and Immortals primarily were in pieces, but we also had lots of Brood of Ungolliant, and a couple chosen that were interested. For me to form the tribe, I didn't have the PvE side of things to worry about. To build a freep PvP kin your going to need to worry about that element as well. As far as gaining interest from people currently in a kin I'm saying. For kinless folks, well theres probably a reason why they arn't in a kin at the moment. Either very green, or multiple other reasons come to mind. Anyway... I do hope it works out for you Cintona. Good luck.
    [img]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/314797/BloodloafNewSig.png[/img]

    Some Uruks rank so slow it would impress the Ents themselves.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Too often, it's just straight out DPS or heals, and the CC and debuffing is lacking. I want to hear champ horns, see fire lore on reavers, wind lore on BAs, slows and stuns on kiting targets, fears and incoming healing debuffs being used. In a lot of freep pugs, these types of things are just way under utilized. That's an area where discussing strats and experience working together counts for a lot.
    .
    This is an excellent point. Whoever was keeping me nearly perma-feared last night was doing it VERY right. If you [general] can encourage all classes to utilize their skills to full potential you will find a hidden gem. Once that is achieved the victory should be on the horizon with freeps. Freeps have so many new and revived support options. Turbine catered to the people asking for more solo-able and single dps-esque content in PVE but this doesn't telegraph into PVP. It's still very important to remove the mindset of single-player heros. The opposition has many advantages (to combat dps at their disposal). It's most advantageous to think outside of the dps race.

    Cheers.
    Tsaurel/Telae - SVP

  8. #8
    Cint... By now am sure you have noticed that Ive dropped all my creeps from the tribe. No disrespect to you my old friend. I know we know each other better then that. You have helped me out in life more so then alot of friends, and I will always be greatful but, now I must draw lines in our sandbox!!
    I know and have heard you about this game, the moors. I know your back with a bite this time. Good Im happy to see it. But I bought into your sales pitch and then to see you freep all the more and more. I cant help that out. Its your acct. You pay your bill's and etc.... Again, no dis...

    I am actively looking for players to join up in my tribe. Mutilation of Bodies. MoB isnt going to be as big as BH or MB. thats not what Im looking to get out of it. Besides I dont want

    "I , Grushmun, challenge "Cintona/Deok" for lead of "The Fallen" by way of combat. Spar me on any toon, and once I am victorious I will use my new found power and disband it."

    I want to help make this sandbox a bit more enjoyable to more players, new or older. Maybe, just maybe over some time well spent, I can help some players in learning to "cut their teeth", or as a dear friend puts it, "A rite of passage" out here. Ive had my stay in MB and it was some of the best moors fights Ive ever had, besides running a few Pug's with Voodoo or Bag. I too have lead many many creeps raids and not so many freeps raids but I have. I dont care to count up all my inf\ren on all my active toon's. So in a nutt shell.
    If there is any new player(s) out there and ya like to lest have some fun while ya learn and maybe teach this old dog a trick or two. You'll find me in the moors on one of my many creeps. And for your jackwagons who feel the need to creepsspy on us while ya freep. plz save yourself and me the time. I will find out who you are and when I do, I will put you on blast in the forums. Sure I can take 1 more forum warring before I get banned.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207010000207a82/signature.png]Anthraxious[/charsig] Reaver-Killanation r10, Black Arrow-Muzeygash-r10, Warleader-Grishski-r10, Defiler-Anthraxious-r12
    "People should not be unfamiliar with strategy, Those who understand it will survive, Those who do not understand it will perish"

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterSledge View Post
    Cint... By now am sure you have noticed that Ive dropped all my creeps from the tribe. No disrespect to you my old friend. I know we know each other better then that. You have helped me out in life more so then alot of friends, and I will always be greatful but, now I must draw lines in our sandbox!!
    I know and have heard you about this game, the moors. I know your back with a bite this time. Good Im happy to see it. But I bought into your sales pitch and then to see you freep all the more and more. I cant help that out. Its your acct. You pay your bill's and etc.... Again, no dis...

    I am actively looking for players to join up in my tribe. Mutilation of Bodies. MoB isnt going to be as big as BH or MB. thats not what Im looking to get out of it. Besides I dont want

    "I , Grushmun, challenge "Cintona/Deok" for lead of "The Fallen" by way of combat. Spar me on any toon, and once I am victorious I will use my new found power and disband it."

    I want to help make this sandbox a bit more enjoyable to more players, new or older. Maybe, just maybe over some time well spent, I can help some players in learning to "cut their teeth", or as a dear friend puts it, "A rite of passage" out here. Ive had my stay in MB and it was some of the best moors fights Ive ever had, besides running a few Pug's with Voodoo or Bag. I too have lead many many creeps raids and not so many freeps raids but I have. I dont care to count up all my inf\ren on all my active toon's. So in a nutt shell.
    If there is any new player(s) out there and ya like to lest have some fun while ya learn and maybe teach this old dog a trick or two. You'll find me in the moors on one of my many creeps. And for your jackwagons who feel the need to creepsspy on us while ya freep. plz save yourself and me the time. I will find out who you are and when I do, I will put you on blast in the forums. Sure I can take 1 more forum warring before I get banned.
    So what are the requirements to join..erm...Mutilation of *gulp* Bodies? Do I have to be kicked out of every tribe on Ark before I can join? Cause im telling you now it's hard to get into some of these Ark tribes I swear
    [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2ypcay0.jpg[/IMG]

    Grushmun-1 - Rank 13 Reaver, Bayoneta-1 Rank 10 LM, Bayoneta-2 Rank 9 Hunt, Halindale-2 Rank 9 Capt.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerdude101 View Post
    So what are the requirements to join..erm...Mutilation of *gulp* Bodies? Do I have to be kicked out of every tribe on Ark before I can join? Cause im telling you now it's hard to get into some of these Ark tribes I swear
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterSledge View Post
    Cint... By now am sure you have noticed that Ive dropped all my creeps from the tribe. No disrespect to you my old friend. I know we know each other better then that. You have helped me out in life more so then alot of friends, and I will always be greatful but, now I must draw lines in our sandbox!!
    I know and have heard you about this game, the moors. I know your back with a bite this time. Good Im happy to see it. But I bought into your sales pitch and then to see you freep all the more and more. I cant help that out. Its your acct. You pay your bill's and etc.... Again, no dis...

    I am actively looking for players to join up in my tribe. Mutilation of Bodies. MoB isnt going to be as big as BH or MB. thats not what Im looking to get out of it. Besides I dont want

    "I , Grushmun, challenge "Cintona/Deok" for lead of "The Fallen" by way of combat. Spar me on any toon, and once I am victorious I will use my new found power and disband it."

    I want to help make this sandbox a bit more enjoyable to more players, new or older. Maybe, just maybe over some time well spent, I can help some players in learning to "cut their teeth", or as a dear friend puts it, "A rite of passage" out here. Ive had my stay in MB and it was some of the best moors fights Ive ever had, besides running a few Pug's with Voodoo or Bag. I too have lead many many creeps raids and not so many freeps raids but I have. I dont care to count up all my inf\ren on all my active toon's. So in a nutt shell.
    If there is any new player(s) out there and ya like to lest have some fun while ya learn and maybe teach this old dog a trick or two. You'll find me in the moors on one of my many creeps. And for your jackwagons who feel the need to creepsspy on us while ya freep. plz save yourself and me the time. I will find out who you are and when I do, I will put you on blast in the forums. Sure I can take 1 more forum warring before I get banned.
    first off low blow grush ... your cleverness always amaze...

    Second of all thorax all the respect in the world to ya!! I'll catch up in game with you
    .

    Freeps- Deok lvl 95 Hunter
    Creeps - Cintona Rank 11 Darkblits Rank 7

  11. #11
    Why a PvMP training/advancement kinship would have helped me.

    I like your dedication and stepping out there for the benefit of Arkenstone and the moors. Attitude has a lot to do with the quality of an MMO. Lotro NEEDS an attitude adjustment especially within the Moors. So I applaud your efforts.

    Regarding posts that were pessimistic toward the proposal of a pvmp kin. When I read them I felt the comments/opinions were hollow or had a passive aggressive nature to them. If I misinterpreted those posts, which is common when reading text, then I withdraw my opinion. However the OP was quite clear on several points that have been questioned and I believe most of the dissenting views are not reasonably justifiable. Give Cintona/Deok a break. Don't taint potential kinmate views without good cause. The worst that could happen is nothing, literally.
    Note: I dont know Cintona at all. My comments are my own.


    My history in the moors is a good example of why Cintona's kin would have helped me and others like me.
    It's my opinion that a kin focused on pvmp training and raiding is badly needed. Unless you know someone in the moors or have been there for quite some time it is an increasingly more difficult place to get involved in. One of the ugliest parts of the moors is the exclusivity of high ranked groups towards rank 0-3. I hate to say it but the freep side is frequently more accepting of greenies than the creeps. Don't know why this is but I know Tharros and other leaders are happy to have greenies tag along. I say that as a creep (I have 4 ranked creeps and only 1 ranked freep). I came from a relatively large kin that had zero interest in the moors. As a result I was forced to level myself solo in the moors only taking part in groups once every couple weeks or so. Wasn't easy. Finally I achieved a decent rank on several creeps and 1 freep. At that point I started getting /tells inviting to join tribes and/or switch kinships. I chose not to join them. I enjoyed healing and assisting greenies/loners and knew this would be less available if I joined one of the larger tribes. In addition, I didn't want to join the tribes/kinships that were "above" me when I was a low rank. (So yes I have a ranked 7 creep without a tribe, I think my freep is rank 8) My point... It takes determination to level in the moors. The great majority of players never level a creep/freep to rank 1 because starting in the moors sucks. If a kinship was to encourage and invite newbies then the moors population (over time) would be greatly expanded. Many benefits would result in greater moors participation.
    Kinship trains freeps-->trained freeps make creeps

    Final point.
    Offering training or help, to those that find the moors area an impossible and daunting realm is going to reduce the players that would want to ruin legitimate pvp. Rank Farming and unconventional means to advance a character would be less desirable. Since the ban on RF you read admittance of the why someone would do it in the forum. Many times it is creeps/freeps that felt under powered and wanted to compete in the moors or participate at a level that would be inclusive. Often times they go way past the threshold of comparable rank. They feel guilty but not so much that they regret doing it. Im not suggesting this kin would solve the greater problem with the moors but I think it contributes to the greater good of pvp.

    Sorry if these points went off topic. My intent was to provide reason for why a pvmp kinship (for training and equipment acquisition) would have been helpful to me.

    If I pissed anyone off feel free to comment. I originally wanted to say good job to Cintona and not create a S*itstorm upon myself.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000001a1387/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterSledge View Post

    I am actively looking for players to join up in my tribe. Mutilation of Bodies. MoB isnt going to be as big as BH or MB. thats not what Im looking to get out of it. Besides I dont want

    I want to help make this sandbox a bit more enjoyable to more players, new or older. Maybe, just maybe over some time well spent, I can help some players in learning to "cut their teeth", or as a dear friend puts it, "A rite of passage" out here. Ive had my stay in MB and it was some of the best moors fights Ive ever had, besides running a few Pug's with Voodoo or Bag. I too have lead many many creeps raids and not so many freeps raids but I have. I dont care to count up all my inf\ren on all my active toon's. So in a nutt shell.
    If there is any new player(s) out there and ya like to lest have some fun while ya learn and maybe teach this old dog a trick or two. You'll find me in the moors on one of my many creeps. And for you jackwagons who feel the need to creepsspy on us while ya freep. plz save yourself and me the time. I will find out who you are and when I do, I will put you on blast in the forums. Sure I can take 1 more forum warring before I get banned.
    Voter- Cint and myself over the last week or so have talk mainly about doing just this.... I have asked alot of soloer's, untribed creeps I have seen if they wanted to join my tribe. Some have, some havent. I have also been running alot more "pugs" as of late. 1 of the biggest issues I have running "pugs" is that 80% of them dont have their in game ears on, and then when they do they dont care to follow directions or the RAT. How I know this, When I have a certain reaver in my grp I run 2 on the RAT. That gives me the freedom to "tab" thru targets to find whos who. Ive learned this trait from running freep grp's with Daec. Daec has tabbed thru his own grp's to dbl ck to make sure each player is on the same RAT target. And when I was caught "Doing my own thing" He would ask me "Why I wasnt on Target?" I would love to have a solid 12 man or even a full raiding creep tribe who have spent the time together, getting maps, deeds done, laff's along the way and rank too.

    Voter... I know what it feels like to feel "low rank", trust me I do. I also know that the 2 top tribes are that way for 1 reason and 1 reason only. They dont care to share pt's. I know Im about to eat chit over this one but I really dont care. I may not be everyones cup of tea, nor do I want to... Larger tribes who have 12+ to even sometimes a full raid "know" the next action of play. respawn times on Delving Bosses, res locations, hot spots, etc... So by the time smaller or even the soloer finds the action, its either mop up time or getting face rolled. Does asking "Eyes" in OOC help? Depends on what time it is and who is asking, IMHO.


    Am I willing to have and help Younger newer creep toons out here in our sandbox? O hell yeah I am. I do still enjoy getting maps and mass amount of turn inns. Questing is fun but not for everyone. I know the creeps in tribe now all have maps but, I am and I know I can speak for most of the others in tribe. We can set up a time each day to getting maps, even if that means we have to pve to flip a keep so there are turn inns. And again, Cintona and myself have talk abut doing all of these things and its not going to change over night or a few weekends.
    Last edited by SinisterSledge; Jan 19 2014 at 11:10 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207010000207a82/signature.png]Anthraxious[/charsig] Reaver-Killanation r10, Black Arrow-Muzeygash-r10, Warleader-Grishski-r10, Defiler-Anthraxious-r12
    "People should not be unfamiliar with strategy, Those who understand it will survive, Those who do not understand it will perish"

  13. #13
    Freeps should just use the TS that is available to them half our problems would be solved.
    Formerly Derlan of Arkenstone, Thistlebeard of Crickhollow, Thistlehair of Brandywine. Once again Derlan of Arkenstone. Your Welcome for the $75 WB.

    Auzue, Number (Arkenstone)

 

 

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