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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    I have to be honest, I dont believe for a single second that the reason they have not fixed Draigoch, is due to a lack of information on the bug, its been 3 years, I would bet my house that they have received 1000s of detailed bug reports on that instance, the most famous bug in phase 3 is pretty much well known by everyone.

    I myself have put in at least 20 or so detailed bug reports, on one occasion I had my whole group copy/paste a very detailed bug report so we could all submit it at the same time, they know full well what the issues are with draigoch, why isnt it fixed yet? I have no idea, maybe its lack of time, maybe they just dont care that people are still buying it even though its broken, maybe they do not know how to fix it, but I absolutely 100% stone clad guarantee you, its noy due to a lack of info.


    Oh and PS,
    I know full well they are aware there is a problem as when I complained to turbine and asked for a refund I was granted with TPs and Some xp boosts etc and an email stating that is why I was receiving them.
    If that's the case, then chances are the decision not to work on it long enough to fix the problems is most likely NOT being made by the developers. Something like that is usually made further up the decision chain. In which case, the place to take the renewed call about Draigoch (why does that name make me think of dragons?) is probably the producer's thread.

    Also, ask Sapience during his hobbit/Isengard runs about it. I watched the Gilrain run Friday, and he was taking questions about other things besides the run itself. I believe he's inviting various developers to sit in as well. It would probably be a refreshing change from the repetitive questioning about instance clusters for HD--I saw that question 4 or 5 times Friday, despite the fact that it's been answered a gazillion times on the board since the xpac was released. (I have yet to figure out whether people just ignore the Sapience's answers or think that if they're the one that asks the answer might somehow magically change to yes.) However, not one person that I saw or heard asked about Draigoch, unless it came while I was on the phone and had the sound muted and wasn't following the chat text closely.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    I've just read through the last 1 1/2 pages of this thread again and I cannot find any posts that make personal attacks on any individuals. Certainly there are criticisms made against the company but none that I can see that make personal attacks towards named employees. Don't believe that criticising a corporation for the quality of it's product is childish is it?

    Perhaps I've missed the posts that call out a named individual or employee. If so can I suggest that you report the posts in question and let a GM deal with it.

    Thank you.
    I read his post and was going to respond, but decided against it, so far this thread (apart from a couple of posts which to the credit of the posters have been ignored) has been carried out in an extremely good manner, good points raised by most no one has fallen out and all is tickety boo.

    The reason i didnt respond is that threads such as these get derailed quickly when comments like that are made, obviously incorrect and serve no purpose so its best they are ignored and left to wither away, that way the people who do have something worthwhile to say, can carry on doing so, there is a discussion to be had on the topics in here, and hopefully people will continue to do so, that includes Sapience, who I appreciate commenting on here and hopefully might find time to finally answer my question regarding Draigoch (I know you are busy with the hobbit walk thing right now).

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    ... from the repetitive questioning about instance clusters for HD--I saw that question 4 or 5 times Friday, despite the fact that it's been answered a gazillion times on the board since the xpac was released. (I have yet to figure out whether people just ignore the Sapience's answers or think that if they're the one that asks the answer might somehow magically change to yes.)
    Perhaps people ask the question repetitively because, in their view it is an important issue and by continually raising their concerns when given the opportunity they are making sure their voice is heard and are seeking to change the decision and get a raid & instance cluster on the schedule for 2014. In many respects it's no different to how political lobbyists work when hired by single-issue pressure groups.
    <A sig goes here>

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    I've just read through the last 1 1/2 pages of this thread again and I cannot find any posts that make personal attacks on any individuals. Certainly there are criticisms made against the company but none that I can see that make personal attacks towards named employees. Don't believe that criticising a corporation for the quality of it's product is childish is it?

    Perhaps I've missed the posts that call out a named individual or employee. If so can I suggest that you report the posts in question and let a GM deal with it.

    Thank you.
    I think he means attacks/insults of a more general nature such as, "its obvious the devs don't care" or "could we get devs that can code", etc. Those kinds of statements are childish.
    I like ice cream.

  5. #80
    I've always thought it more interesting and informative to look at the *type* of bug that slips through, rather than their number.

    I understand that code can do weird things and that changing X can have entirely unpredictable consequences in some wildly unconnected way, especially for an old game. I also understand that no amount of testing can replicate the live server/thousands of player experience.

    As such I tend to be tolerant of large OMG! bugs, even show-stoppers and I actually think that Turbine is good at fixing those, on the whole.

    More of a concern to me are the plethora of smaller glitches, oddities, typos and unfinished things which don't stop me playing the game, but which degrade the quality of the experience a little bit at a time. A quest which doesn't trigger or phase correctly. A skill which doesn't do what it says. Icons copied. Poor quest text. Travel routes which take you into landscape. Missing pots. Placeholder descriptions. Repetitive quest lines.

    These tell me that the development team doesn't have the time/money (which in the end are the same thing) to get the expansion done on time in a suitably polished state. I see more of such things in HD than I saw in previous expansions and overall I think each release since F2P has got a little bit worse. The game is being run on a shoestring budget. The developers (who no doubt work their butts off and do care passionately) are being asked to do too much with too little. There isn't enough testing. Betas are rushed. The basics get done (the game is functionally playable) but the polish and the details and the extra little things ... they get lost, and the overall experience is lessened because of it.
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  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I've always thought it more interesting and informative to look at the *type* of bug that slips through, rather than their number.

    I understand that code can do weird things and that changing X can have entirely unpredictable consequences in some wildly unconnected way, especially for an old game. I also understand that no amount of testing can replicate the live server/thousands of player experience.

    As such I tend to be tolerant of large OMG! bugs, even show-stoppers and I actually think that Turbine is good at fixing those, on the whole.

    More of a concern to me are the plethora of smaller glitches, oddities, typos and unfinished things which don't stop me playing the game, but which degrade the quality of the experience a little bit at a time. A quest which doesn't trigger or phase correctly. A skill which doesn't do what it says. Icons copied. Poor quest text. Travel routes which take you into landscape. Missing pots. Placeholder descriptions. Repetitive quest lines.

    These tell me that the development team doesn't have the time/money (which in the end are the same thing) to get the expansion done on time in a suitably polished state. I see more of such things in HD than I saw in previous expansions and overall I think each release since F2P has got a little bit worse. The game is being run on a shoestring budget. The developers (who no doubt work their butts off and do care passionately) are being asked to do too much with too little. There isn't enough testing. Betas are rushed. The basics get done (the game is functionally playable) but the polish and the details and the extra little things ... they get lost, and the overall experience is lessened because of it.
    Even things as seemingly simple as water crossings on roads that dismount you detracts from the overall experience.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I've always thought it more interesting and informative to look at the *type* of bug that slips through, rather than their number.

    I understand that code can do weird things and that changing X can have entirely unpredictable consequences in some wildly unconnected way, especially for an old game. I also understand that no amount of testing can replicate the live server/thousands of player experience.

    As such I tend to be tolerant of large OMG! bugs, even show-stoppers and I actually think that Turbine is good at fixing those, on the whole.

    More of a concern to me are the plethora of smaller glitches, oddities, typos and unfinished things which don't stop me playing the game, but which degrade the quality of the experience a little bit at a time. A quest which doesn't trigger or phase correctly. A skill which doesn't do what it says. Icons copied. Poor quest text. Travel routes which take you into landscape. Missing pots. Placeholder descriptions. Repetitive quest lines.

    These tell me that the development team doesn't have the time/money (which in the end are the same thing) to get the expansion done on time in a suitably polished state. I see more of such things in HD than I saw in previous expansions and overall I think each release since F2P has got a little bit worse. The game is being run on a shoestring budget. The developers (who no doubt work their butts off and do care passionately) are being asked to do too much with too little. There isn't enough testing. Betas are rushed. The basics get done (the game is functionally playable) but the polish and the details and the extra little things ... they get lost, and the overall experience is lessened because of it.
    I would echo pretty much everything you said there, I believe the devs are doing the best with the resources they have, but I would ask when did "functionally playable" become the accepted standard and also what defines functionally playable? Lets take BBs in HD for example, were they functionally playable? I guess you could argue that most of the time they could be completed, but every big battle came with a lot of bugs, is the following classed as functionally playable?


    Epic Battles

    Epic Battles in all group sizes will now properly advance their associated Epic quest.
    Defender NPCs in Epic Battles should more readily engage the forces of the Enemy.
    Certain activatable objects (which have no morale/power) that are related to Epic Battles secondary quests will now show icons indicating which secondary quest they're related to in their tooltips and nameplates.
    The last Officer Rank will now add 20 seconds to the Heal, Haste, Damage, and Armour buffs from the Commander Orders. It was previously incorrectly set to 10 seconds.
    There is now a red "locked on" version of the target reticule which is displayed after the siege weapon is fired, while the missile is on its way to the target.
    The medium catapult will no longer gain 90% of its health on the first build-cycle and now requires additional build time to complete.
    The platinum set-piece rewards from Big Battles now have respective class requirements
    Several Big Battle rewards have had their stats adjusted to fall back in line with other items of the same rarity and item level.
    The Champion set piece rewards from Big Battles have had block rating removed and replaced with more relevant stats.
    Some of the lower-level pieces of jewelry have had their stats adjusted to bring them in-line with other pieces of that level.
    Moved the vanguard Pip generation effect to be on everyone while you are in an epic battle, not just a specific subset of vanguard traits.
    All death strings have been updated to indicate objects have been destroyed instead of died.
    Commander UI no longer has a placeholder while the stances button is loading.
    Vandals in the Tower has been changed so that the loss of either winch will fail the quest immediately, but the invading vandals have been weakened.
    Building and Repairing barricades has a new animation.
    Vanguard skills will now always play their animation, sound, and visual FX (as long as your game settings allow it).
    A 3rd Rank Engineer can now dismantle barricades in order to move them to another location.
    Leeching Powder now lasts for a minute instead of forever.
    Gimli & his cadets now properly finish patrol.
    Laborers will no longer stop when attacked.



    Glittering Caves

    Cave in will now collapse rocks properly.
    Bomb and bats sappers will now place bombs as they should.
    Cocoons now take a default of 3 seconds to disable.
    Added progress indicator for Goblin Sapper objective.
    Enemies should no longer attack the signaling flags.
    Stalactites Over the Bridge - Reworded failure condition for clarity.
    Civilian Defence now counts each barricades health separately and you will lose merit on health thresholds
    Now has banners.
    Final assault has a longer delay before spawning.
    Stalactites over the bridge quest information now includes a wave count.
    Cave In is now more difficult and you will lose merit on barricade health transitions.


    - Solo -

    Preparing the Charge merit values have been adjusted to make it possible to attain higher than a bronze medal.
    Preparing the Charge now accurately reflects how many commanders you've killed



    - Solo/Duo and 3-Man -

    Bombs and Bats - Enemy pathing improved, difficulty increased.
    Bombs and Bats - Enemies should no longer path to the ballista.
    Bombs and Bats - Merit points have been adjusted for supply containers and crystals being destroyed.



    Spider Assault:

    3 man now properly counts to 6
    Spiders guarding Skrimgrit will engage
    Cocoons are now listed as part of this quest not bombs and bats



    Cave In:

    Defenders only appear when this quest is active




    The Wall
    General

    Totems now take considerably longer to disable than to reset.



    12 Player

    Increased the number of enemy catapults by 2 per assault
    Spread out the enemy catapults a bit more
    Medium Catapults now need to be cranked to 3 before they can be fired.
    Banners will now be randomized in their appearance



    Solo/Duo

    Vandals in the Keep correctly counts to 8.



    Securing the Culvert

    Trolls now have attack animations.



    The Hornburg

    Players can no longer jump out of the windows near the broken portcullis.
    Constructed Winches and Siege Ladders penalties increased and Uruks will now sometimes attack the Wounded Rohirrim and Healers. Vandals now have slightly higher health.
    Bringing Down the Siege-ladders -- When the quest is completed, enemies will no longer continue to spawn from any remaining siege ladders.
    Bringing Down the Siege-ladders -- Waves coming up the stairs following the first have been increased to 3 non-troll monsters, up from 2.
    Repair the Portcullis -- Supplies have been shifted slightly to aid in guiding the player to them and are now denoted by sparkles.
    The Final Blockade -- Uruks and Orcs attacking the ballistae should no longer run down to the main fight on the wall.
    Protecting the Gatehouse - The door to the lower gatehouse now sparkles and additional text has been added to the initial announcement.
    Extinguishing Fear-The water bucket can be picked up again if the player stops carrying it or the timer runs out



    Deeping-coomb

    Minimap labels for Securing the Debris, A Pillage Denied, and Preparing the Retreat have been corrected to their proper colours.
    Players can no longer enter the Hornburg during this battle.
    The announcement of the second wave of attacks now occurs when the attack begins.
    Merit penalties for losing focus banners and constructed equipment have been increased substantially.
    Defilers in the Water -- Dark Waters can now reach the mill and Uruks will harry the Rohirrim commander.
    Searching the Debris -- Waves of enemies attacking the debris/wounded now spawn slightly faster.



    Helm's Dike
    - Solo/6 Man-

    Failure conditions of side quests are now red in the quest tracker
    Protect the Horses - Added text regarding the ability of freeing horses intentionally


    - Solo -

    Tutorial ladders are now visible at the start of the instance
    Guarding the Watchtower - The tower will become unselectable after the quest completes



    That was what needing fixing for BBs in U12.1, they are not long term bugs that the devs found time to fix, those listed above were released WITH the expansion, they were SOLD as part of the expansion, and even now people are still experiencing bugs new and old, from BBs just go read the instance,raids forum.

    I do not know how to define "functionally playable" but IMO BBs were not released in a good enough working order to accept payment for them, certainly not upto the standard required of an expansion of that price.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Perhaps people ask the question repetitively because, in their view it is an important issue and by continually raising their concerns when given the opportunity they are making sure their voice is heard and are seeking to change the decision and get a raid & instance cluster on the schedule for 2014. In many respects it's no different to how political lobbyists work when hired by single-issue pressure groups.

    I agree with you to some extent, but given the lore at the time Helm's Deep occurs--how do you create something on a small scale like an instance/raid cluster when all the battles in the lore are on such a massive scale? I see a lot of people saying, "but X, Y, Z, and Q all are lore-breaking inclusions, why not break lore this time and give me my instance/raid cluster?" My question is, "Where do you draw the line on lore-breaking, and at what point would such a lore-break result in losing Turbine the licensing rights from Tolkien's estate?" I may be wrong, but that also could be a consideration.

    To be honest, I haven't gotten into raiding yet, and am not sure I'm going to. I'm having a lot of fun going through the game as one of a duo, and I have had some unpleasant experiences in PUGs. This is my first, and only, MMO and my pcs are a mini and a burg. Both these classes come in for a lot of grief when they don't meet the (in some cases unwarranted based on their own abilities!!) high expectations of the other fellowship members. So perhaps I have no right to weigh in on the HD raid/instance issue.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    I agree with you to some extent, but given the lore at the time Helm's Deep occurs--how do you create something on a small scale like an instance/raid cluster when all the battles in the lore are on such a massive scale? I see a lot of people saying, "but X, Y, Z, and Q all are lore-breaking inclusions, why not break lore this time and give me my instance/raid cluster?" My question is, "Where do you draw the line on lore-breaking, and at what point would such a lore-break result in losing Turbine the licensing rights from Tolkien's estate?" I may be wrong, but that also could be a consideration.

    To be honest, I haven't gotten into raiding yet, and am not sure I'm going to. I'm having a lot of fun going through the game as one of a duo, and I have had some unpleasant experiences in PUGs. This is my first, and only, MMO and my pcs are a mini and a burg. Both these classes come in for a lot of grief when they don't meet the (in some cases unwarranted based on their own abilities!!) high expectations of the other fellowship members. So perhaps I have no right to weigh in on the HD raid/instance issue.
    With the exception of perhaps the Barad Guldur and ToO raids, all the other LOTRO raids were located and story-lined outside of any events in the canon. Helegrod, Rift, Turtle, DN and OD were all "fictitious" locations and had back stories developed to bring them into the lotro world. ToO could also be seen to be stretching the links with the books. The watcher of course is covered in TFOTR but it was Turbine's ability to craft a backdrop that linked it into the vol 2 epic line and also a raid setting.

    The whole point is that LOTRO has never been about just following the fellowship. It was only vol 1, book 1 of the SoA epic that touched upon the fellowship and the following 14 books were a diversion from that. There is really no reason why a raid & instance cluster could not be slotted into Western Rohan or any other locale for that matter.

    As for the whole issue of lore breaking, we don't have to touch on group-based content to find many examples of those in LOTRO.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feraxks View Post
    I think he means attacks/insults of a more general nature such as, "its obvious the devs don't care" or "could we get devs that can code", etc. Those kinds of statements are childish.
    Fair point. Comments such as that are probably 100% certain not to achieve the desired outcome.
    <A sig goes here>

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    I agree with you to some extent, but given the lore at the time Helm's Deep occurs--how do you create something on a small scale like an instance/raid cluster when all the battles in the lore are on such a massive scale? I see a lot of people saying, "but X, Y, Z, and Q all are lore-breaking inclusions, why not break lore this time and give me my instance/raid cluster?" My question is, "Where do you draw the line on lore-breaking, and at what point would such a lore-break result in losing Turbine the licensing rights from Tolkien's estate?" I may be wrong, but that also could be a consideration.

    To be honest, I haven't gotten into raiding yet, and am not sure I'm going to. I'm having a lot of fun going through the game as one of a duo, and I have had some unpleasant experiences in PUGs. This is my first, and only, MMO and my pcs are a mini and a burg. Both these classes come in for a lot of grief when they don't meet the (in some cases unwarranted based on their own abilities!!) high expectations of the other fellowship members. So perhaps I have no right to weigh in on the HD raid/instance issue.
    I don't think the issue is really bound up in Tolkien "lore", so much as simply sticking to the story.

    For example, there have been complaints that you can start a BB and go AFK, and the result is the same. Which of course, in a storytelling sense, it has to be. The gate is lost, the wall breached, the caves saved etc. all these are predetermined outcomes and Turbine can't really mess with them. A group of mighty heroes (12 or 24, take your pick) can't stop 10,000 orcs.

    There could have been more traditional instance content covering minor elements of the battle, in the same way the side quests do now. But then there would have been complaints that the instances weren't really part of the battle. Nor would these have catered for the solos, duos and level 10s upwards who can all take part in BBs.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    With the exception of perhaps the Barad Guldur and ToO raids, all the other LOTRO raids were located and story-lined outside of any events in the canon. Helegrod, Rift, Turtle, DN and OD were all "fictitious" locations and had back stories developed to bring them into the lotro world. ToO could also be seen to be stretching the links with the books. The watcher of course is covered in TFOTR but it was Turbine's ability to craft a backdrop that linked it into the vol 2 epic line and also a raid setting.

    The whole point is that LOTRO has never been about just following the fellowship. It was only vol 1, book 1 of the SoA epic that touched upon the fellowship and the following 14 books were a diversion from that. There is really no reason why a raid & instance cluster could not be slotted into Western Rohan or any other locale for that matter.

    As for the whole issue of lore breaking, we don't have to touch on group-based content to find many examples of those in LOTRO.
    I think what was going through my mind on the lore-break issue is more of a case of "at what degree does the lore-break becomes too egregious?", as opposed to, say, the whole rune-keeper issue. I don't have an answer for that. Presumably someone at Turbine does, and I would imagine Tolkien's estate and the licensing entity most definitely does--or they wouldn't keep granting license renewal.

    As I said, since I'm not a raid/instance junkie I probably have no right to wade into the battle about the lack of such content in HD. Will I change my perspective on raids/group instances as I become more confident in my gaming skills and more knowledgeable about my classes? Maybe. The fact that my higher-level pc is at lvl 75 and is just now working finishing up the Grey Company quests may say otherwise, though. I gained more levels than I would have liked during the extended XP "weekend" in the lead-up to the release because I wanted a steed of Michel Delving for both PCs. So from a knowledge/gaming skill level I'm about 10 levels below my numerical level. At this point, I'm still having fun learning and exploring the game and getting a much better knowledge of the actual book. Can I rejoin the conversation when I'm sitting on multiple pcs (yes, I've been assimilated!) at level cap?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damojo View Post
    I don't think the issue is really bound up in Tolkien "lore", so much as simply sticking to the story.

    For example, there have been complaints that you can start a BB and go AFK, and the result is the same. Which of course, in a storytelling sense, it has to be. The gate is lost, the wall breached, the caves saved etc. all these are predetermined outcomes and Turbine can't really mess with them. A group of mighty heroes (12 or 24, take your pick) can't stop 10,000 orcs.

    There could have been more traditional instance content covering minor elements of the battle, in the same way the side quests do now. But then there would have been complaints that the instances weren't really part of the battle. Nor would these have catered for the solos, duos and level 10s upwards who can all take part in BBs.
    This, too--I watched the trilogy again on New Year's when one of the movie channels here in the US ran it. I couldn't help thinking of the player issues surrounding the HD expac when Helm's Deep was under attack, and wondering how on Middle-Earth Turbine could have done anything differently without ignoring the story-line completely. Essentially, each one of our PCs is a supporting player in the battle. Heroics are reserved for the members of the fellowship and a very small cadre of characters close to them. Our options are limited to either doing minimal battle tasks, menial chore-like tasks, or cowering against the wall of the keep in terror. I'll take being useful in some fashion over cowering against the keep wall, thankyouverymuch--but I reserve my right to grumble in-character while I'm doing it.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Damojo View Post
    I don't think the issue is really bound up in Tolkien "lore", so much as simply sticking to the story.

    For example, there have been complaints that you can start a BB and go AFK, and the result is the same. Which of course, in a storytelling sense, it has to be. The gate is lost, the wall breached, the caves saved etc. all these are predetermined outcomes and Turbine can't really mess with them. A group of mighty heroes (12 or 24, take your pick) can't stop 10,000 orcs.

    There could have been more traditional instance content covering minor elements of the battle, in the same way the side quests do now. But then there would have been complaints that the instances weren't really part of the battle. Nor would these have catered for the solos, duos and level 10s upwards who can all take part in BBs.
    The story in the Erebor raids was also pre-determined and that could not be tampered with but that didnt stop them making a raid cluster out of them, I think its a pretty poor excuse to not being able to create a raid cluster for either of the rohan areas, lots of people have posted ideas for settings recently.

    I would have put the BBs as part of the epic only for HD and released a raid cluster, as it stands now BBs have not been a huge success and they have already said that is whats planned for future events like this, such as the Pelennor fields, that doesnt exactly fill me with anticipation for that event now, I would have used the BBs in the epic as a trial of them to see how they were received and how they worked live, then maybe take them forward, but to replace Raids with them and not give any signal that things will change back, and then have them perform like they did, has kind of backfired.
    Last edited by bobbylobs; Jan 12 2014 at 04:09 PM.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    I think what was going through my mind on the lore-break issue is more of a case of "at what degree does the lore-break becomes too egregious?", as opposed to, say, the whole rune-keeper issue. I don't have an answer for that. Presumably someone at Turbine does, and I would imagine Tolkien's estate and the licensing entity most definitely does--or they wouldn't keep granting license renewal.

    As I said, since I'm not a raid/instance junkie I probably have no right to wade into the battle about the lack of such content in HD. Will I change my perspective on raids/group instances as I become more confident in my gaming skills and more knowledgeable about my classes? Maybe. The fact that my higher-level pc is at lvl 75 and is just now working finishing up the Grey Company quests may say otherwise, though. I gained more levels than I would have liked during the extended XP "weekend" in the lead-up to the release because I wanted a steed of Michel Delving for both PCs. So from a knowledge/gaming skill level I'm about 10 levels below my numerical level. At this point, I'm still having fun learning and exploring the game and getting a much better knowledge of the actual book. Can I rejoin the conversation when I'm sitting on multiple pcs (yes, I've been assimilated!) at level cap?
    You are doing yourself a disservice here, are you in a position to discuss the finer details of raid mechanics and to compare one raid against another? probably not as in your own words you have no experience in these matters, but when we are talking about instanced/raid content that might interest you, then hell yeah your thoughts are needed, raiding in lotro is in a dire state and IF it is to ever come back it needs new blood, players who wouldnt normally think about raiding, and for that to happen we need to know what players like yourself would be interested in taking part in, so dont wait to join in the "what might get you to start raiding" conversations or anything like that, please join in vocally, and who knows you may become us like us whining sods, using every opportunity to plead for more raiding love

  16. #91
    The Helm's Deep battle could perfectly well have been done using existing tech - skirmishes, session play and the sort of instance design used for Fords of Isen and Wulf's Cleft. There was absolutely no need to expend such a huge proportion of meagre developer resources on inventing an entire new mini-game. This is a management decision - an obsession with having a new gimmick to sell in a Xpac (see: Legendary Weapons (Moria), Skirmishes (Mirkwood), Mounted Combat (Rohan)), which is then pretty much abandoned in favour of the next new toy (see also: Housing, Hobbies).

    As for an instance cluster - if there is no coherent way to link it to Helm's Deep itself then don't do so. Set it anywhere you like. Some of the skirmishes (Tuckborough, Bree) aren't even set in the same timeline, nor were the Erebor raids. In Their Absence was completely made up and spread all over the place. There isn't a problem of creativity, there's a problem of resources - not enough of them dedicated to LOTRO and too much of what is available diverted to pointless tech additions and unasked-for game system overhauls.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
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  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    NYC
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    4,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    Wulf's Cleft. .
    When I first did Wulf's cleft, I really saw the potential there. Standing from afar and seeing all the orcs doing their thing was cool. ( even though they sometimes appeared as wierd blobs of color)

    The actual instance was cool too, on the ground fighting your way through waves.

    It wasn't a 'manage' system. And the HD stuff doesn't appear to be an extension of that. But like you said,..something different.

    by the by,..I do like the LI, Skirmishes,and MC and do hope they don't 'fall by the wayside' as we progress.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    You are doing yourself a disservice here, are you in a position to discuss the finer details of raid mechanics and to compare one raid against another? probably not as in your own words you have no experience in these matters, but when we are talking about instanced/raid content that might interest you, then hell yeah your thoughts are needed, raiding in lotro is in a dire state and IF it is to ever come back it needs new blood, players who wouldnt normally think about raiding, and for that to happen we need to know what players like yourself would be interested in taking part in, so dont wait to join in the "what might get you to start raiding" conversations or anything like that, please join in vocally, and who knows you may become us like us whining sods, using every opportunity to plead for more raiding love
    /chuckle

    Be careful what you wish for. I'm apparently incapable of responding to anything on the forum except the "Where's the Tin??????" threads with less than a wall of text to rival the walls of Helm's Deep.

    Also, I'm a Libra. I'll reason everyone to death...in a slow Southern drawl.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Brandywine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailborn View Post
    due to the amount of bashing that is going on ... it's pretty unacceptable the way you are bashing the Dev Team (Inc Sapience) you're acting like childish brats
    Which posts in particular are openly bashing the Devs and Sapience? That is a direct violation of the forum guidelines and should be reported.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    More of a concern to me are the plethora of smaller glitches, oddities, typos and unfinished things which don't stop me playing the game, but which degrade the quality of the experience a little bit at a time. A quest which doesn't trigger or phase correctly. A skill which doesn't do what it says. Icons copied. Poor quest text. Travel routes which take you into landscape. Missing pots. Placeholder descriptions. Repetitive quest lines.

    These tell me that the development team doesn't have the time/money (which in the end are the same thing) to get the expansion done on time in a suitably polished state. I see more of such things in HD than I saw in previous expansions and overall I think each release since F2P has got a little bit worse. The game is being run on a shoestring budget. The developers (who no doubt work their butts off and do care passionately) are being asked to do too much with too little. There isn't enough testing. Betas are rushed. The basics get done (the game is functionally playable) but the polish and the details and the extra little things ... they get lost, and the overall experience is lessened because of it.
    This is exactly how I feel. Thank you very much for articulating it for me.

    Patch notes for a game update often have a heading that tell us, "It's the Little Things That Count." How right they are. It's unfortunate that many of these "little things" that add such wonderful flavor to the game have slowly been dropping by the wayside. I think the devs who work on this game are dedicated people. The problem is that there are a lot fewer of them than there used to be.
    Mandelbaum, 105 Champ; PeabodySherman, 100 LM, House of Mooters, Landroval
    Rembandor, 85 Champ, Penquanta Periannath, Laurelin

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Beschutzer View Post
    I do like the LI, Skirmishes,and MC and do hope they don't 'fall by the wayside' as we progress.
    I would argue that they already have been.

    The LI system has had one major overhaul and the devs are on record as saying they are happy with the system as it stands. LIs could have been soooooo much more than they turned out to be, but all that potential would seem to have withered on the vine.

    The only change made to skirmishes since they launched in 2009 was to add loot to the raid size. There have only been 3 new skirmishes added since F2P - two in 2011 and one in 2012. In that time by my estimate there have been more than 30 Book and Landscape instances which could perfectly well have been skirmishes, but where the devs decided they would prefer to make a *one-time* experience instead, which I consider extraordinary.

    Mounted combat had one patch in RoR but received no changes (or even new levels!) in HD.

    All three of these techs has terrific potential but all have stagnated as management/developer attention turned quickly elsewhere.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

 

 
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