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  1. #26
    I do hope the animation combat bugs are addressed. I don't believe this is Hunter only because my LM has the same type of problems. It is kind of irritating to shoot a bow (without an arrow) then when the skill is done run around with what I am assuming is an arrow. Then again my LM gets tired of using her sword and staffs and starts slapping in melee. Kind of makes her look tough when she kills a mob with a quick right hook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    I will say that I continue to go back and forth on the hunters stances. We wanted the choice of stances to really drive the concept of hopping back and forth between them depending on the state of the fight, but I do feel that some stances outshine the others.

    I think the 10 second buffs are not enough of an incentive to switch. It almost becomes micro management to get that perfect shot off (camo/cool burn/strenght/focus/heart seeker) with 25k - 30k damage on a mob with about 15k morale. Sure it is fun to do once in a while but the flow of the game there is no real incentive for me to stance jump (in any frequency).

    I do hope the CoTH animation is address. By the time my root or slow is off I am usually dead (this might have changed since 12.1? I haven't used it since then).

    I really think that u13 is way too long to put back in stealth tracking. As a moors player that is a required skill. I haven't been back since. I like the idea of combining the foe/nature track or at least letting them both be used currently (but that would be tracking 2 mobs at a time and I don't think that would be good). Also if the plan was to tie stealth tracking to just heightened senses then I think that would be a disservice to all the hunter lines. A hunter that can't track stealth doesn't make sense and to tie it deep into one trait takes away something hunters could do since it was created.

    Also are you going to address the lack of melee skills? I realize that right now most things die before they get into melee range but once DPS is adjusted we will have more mobs chomping at our feet. Currently what is the point of the parry proc?
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise
    I like the general implication of the above, which that the game will get in some way harder in release 12.2! With folks soloing 6 and 12 man content on level, that would seem to be a good idea


    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    It is something we are actively addressing. I don't think 12.2 will have a huge impact, but good stuff is on the way.
    The changes about difficulty balance should be huge.
    As DelgonTheWise said, most of classes solo skraids now to find challenge, which has no sense.
    With my Hunter in Red I do ~40K hits sometimes on some mobs in 3-man instances; it is not fun to OS everything.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    the ability to have more of a customized hunter back then. You could trait red/blue and get the advantages that you wanted. You can no longer realistically do that
    This should be read as pre-HD there were 100k+ POSSIBLE (not all very viable but still) ways of traiting, post-HD you're looking at far fewer ways of traiting
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#008000]If it moves, kill it - Then look for more things to kill[/COLOR][/SIZE]

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    3. The stealth tracking was never intended to disappear and was more of an oversight on our implementation. I will take a look at re-integrating the functionality back, but I doubt you will not see it until update 13.
    I'm really sorry for sounding so impatient, but can you possibly squeeze this in 12.2? Lot of good hunters have left Moors due to this fact and more are leaving every day. I suggest to make Stealth tracking ability passive, because, in normal pve it doesn't make any difference, but in pvp means a lot.
    Trait trees have ruined the game

  5. #30
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    People are leaving moors because of warg macro-exploiters that do 20k damage before your Cry executes... being able to track em is hardly the expected solution here.
    I hunt. I kill.

    Warden by destiny, Hunter in the heart.

  6. #31
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    Thank you for providing feedback! It's definitely reassuring to see developer responses.

    Triple / set trap also does untyped damage, and traps as a whole do not check against incoming melee / ranged / tactical defense or level-based miss. When my hunter was 74, I was able to kill lvl 94 landscape mobs using traps.
    Traps are special snowflakes right now. We wanted to make them a little more viable but there are some issues under the hood we need to resolve with them.

    -Jinjaah

  7. #32
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromiteSwiftpaw View Post
    Jinjaah are you going to fix some of the ridiculously long after animations/delays with skills? Cry of the Hunter has a long one.

    Also, it'd be nice is the stance-switches wouldn't be part of the command queue. I'd rather they be an immediate sort of thing where it cancels whatever skill was queued and then you can queue up something after it.

    I can't count the amount of times where a stance swap didn't go off because I hit a skill that ate it's lunch. (Usually due to server lag...)

    It would also be nice if quaffing potions were an immediate thing too. I hate having disease/fear/wound removals being queued up.
    Immediate skills can be dangerous under certain conditions so they probably will not become immediate. We can look at some of the animations and scripts and see if we can hasten them some. It will depend on what needs to be done but I will make a note to do a pass through and see whats up for 13.

    -Jinjaah

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Traps are special snowflakes right now. We wanted to make them a little more viable but there are some issues under the hood we need to resolve with them.

    -Jinjaah
    As a matter of completeness, I should also mention that trapper line is a lot of fun to play; being able to ground target really opens up positioning planning for multimob fights, and gives a nice change of pace to the standard 'target mob, click skill' style of play LOTRO has always had. Thank you for your work on this.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  9. #34
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucica View Post
    I'm really sorry for sounding so impatient, but can you possibly squeeze this in 12.2? Lot of good hunters have left Moors due to this fact and more are leaving every day. I suggest to make Stealth tracking ability passive, because, in normal pve it doesn't make any difference, but in pvp means a lot.
    I will see what I can do but I can't promise anything.

    -Jinjaah

  10. #35
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    As a matter of completeness, I should also mention that trapper line is a lot of fun to play; being able to ground target really opens up positioning planning for multimob fights, and gives a nice change of pace to the standard 'target mob, click skill' style of play LOTRO has always had. Thank you for your work on this.
    You're welcome!

  11. #36
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyKOko View Post
    People are leaving moors because of warg macro-exploiters that do 20k damage before your Cry executes... being able to track em is hardly the expected solution here.
    This is also something we are actively working on right now.

    -Jinjaah

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    This is also something we are actively working on right now.

    -Jinjaah
    Thank you for this, It's so annoying to be dead before a stun is gone.
    Hinras, Cappy, rank 9 - Highguard of Numenor

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Traps are special snowflakes right now. We wanted to make them a little more viable but there are some issues under the hood we need to resolve with them.

    -Jinjaah
    I agree with above posters that the yellow line is one of the best lines in-game. I may, perhaps, be ever-so-slightly biased by the fact that the trap-damage always hits, regardless of level. Being an F2P player well on my way through volume 3, I have to deal with red mobs (pretty much constantly). Against unmounted reds, I always dismount and go yellow to win easily. I once killed a purple before he reached me, with no complications whatsoever.

    Having said that, I do feel that the other lines are good for me too, I've killed plenty of red mobs on foot in blue and red. But thanks to Decoy, dying is pretty much a thing of the past.

    Thanks for your time on the forums, I think we're all glad to see some dev reassurances.
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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    This is also something we are actively working on right now.

    -Jinjaah
    Probably the best Dev post since HD launch. Thank you.
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  15. #40
    Quite happy to see this forum going as planned.
    Never before have I seen so many hunters so happy
    Sabian- Hunter85
    All warfare is based on deception

  16. #41
    BTW I probably come off as negative and one who sees the glass half full. That is not my intention. I have been playing the hunter as my main since late 2007. I am more passionate about this class then the others I play. I will say that since HD the hunter by far is the most complete class. The transition to the skill trees has been less painful then say my RK or LM. I seem to focus on those few things that still bog the class down. I appreciate the work the dev teams has done. The yellow line for years has been a novelty that you play around with every once and a while. Now it is an actual viable option. Thanks for the hard work and I am glad that it seems like you guys are on the same page to make the hunter the best class in the game!
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  17. #42
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    BTW I probably come off as negative and one who sees the glass half full. That is not my intention. I have been playing the hunter as my main since late 2007. I am more passionate about this class then the others I play. I will say that since HD the hunter by far is the most complete class. The transition to the skill trees has been less painful then say my RK or LM. I seem to focus on those few things that still bog the class down. I appreciate the work the dev teams has done. The yellow line for years has been a novelty that you play around with every once and a while. Now it is an actual viable option. Thanks for the hard work and I am glad that it seems like you guys are on the same page to make the hunter the best class in the game!
    You're welcome and as I have told players in the past, I never take anything on the forums personally or write off people because they may be frustrated. I know that you all really love this game and sometimes that frustration just boils to the surface. If it wasn't for people like yourselves during the end of the beta process, I doubt the hunter would be where it is today. So keep up the good work!

    -Jinjaah

  18. #43
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    Jin - thank you for your willingness to come on here, and answer questions. For the most part, I really like the changes, and look forward to the upcoming tweaks as they occur. Maybe you can answer a question for me - I'm having problems completing the Level 58 Class deed - Path of the Trapper. Is it bugged? I've completed all three quests in the quest line, but never got the deed or the completion of it. I do remember (I think) cancelling the quest when I was in Moria at the time (yellow line wasn't as appealing as it is now), and now none of the hunter trainers have the original quest. I've bugged it, submitted a ticket (just seeing if a GM could complete the deed for me), and even talked with accounts on the phone. I have not seen it addressed. Was curious as to your thoughts?

    Thanks again for all the hard work on our class.
    . Montras (Main - Hunter 95); Goswen (Minstrel - 95): Monntras (Captain - 21) ; Amtu (Black Arrow R8) Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e' ale'quenle

  19. #44
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    In general I like the Hunter revamp, though I still think there's some issues:

    It might just be me but I find Armor Rend to be both of little use and even confusing as to its name and its actual effect. It seems to be so far into the tree that you either have Finesse gear or will be fairly close to getting Finesse gear, and -BPE doesn't seem very useful to be once you've gotten some Finesse pieces (don't know about PvMP though). What about making it a -armour or incoming damage debuff?

    I'm also torn on Rain of Arrows and the reset trait, it's really efficient in terms of high damage (and even sustainable damage against enough targets) but the whole concept of firing 5-20 arrows every second feels weird lorewise and gameplay wise it's pretty much just spamming one button until it goes on cooldown.

    Some way of increasing the amount of bleed ticks would be most welcome (or would that be overpowered?).

    Rain of Thorns is nice to have, but the +10% to +40% damage seems weak for a skill with such a high cooldown and the initial damage is not that impressive either.

    +5% to +15% healing on Press Onward also seems quite underwhelming considering the cost in trait points.

  20. #45
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaestroJack View Post
    Jin - thank you for your willingness to come on here, and answer questions. For the most part, I really like the changes, and look forward to the upcoming tweaks as they occur. Maybe you can answer a question for me - I'm having problems completing the Level 58 Class deed - Path of the Trapper. Is it bugged? I've completed all three quests in the quest line, but never got the deed or the completion of it. I do remember (I think) cancelling the quest when I was in Moria at the time (yellow line wasn't as appealing as it is now), and now none of the hunter trainers have the original quest. I've bugged it, submitted a ticket (just seeing if a GM could complete the deed for me), and even talked with accounts on the phone. I have not seen it addressed. Was curious as to your thoughts?

    Thanks again for all the hard work on our class.
    That's odd, I will add it to my list of things to check out and see what the deal is.

    -Jinjaah

  21. #46
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    In general I like the Hunter revamp, though I still think there's some issues:

    It might just be me but I find Armor Rend to be both of little use and even confusing as to its name and its actual effect. It seems to be so far into the tree that you either have Finesse gear or will be fairly close to getting Finesse gear, and -BPE doesn't seem very useful to be once you've gotten some Finesse pieces (don't know about PvMP though). What about making it a -armour or incoming damage debuff?

    I'm also torn on Rain of Arrows and the reset trait, it's really efficient in terms of high damage (and even sustainable damage against enough targets) but the whole concept of firing 5-20 arrows every second feels weird lorewise and gameplay wise it's pretty much just spamming one button until it goes on cooldown.

    Some way of increasing the amount of bleed ticks would be most welcome (or would that be overpowered?).

    Rain of Thorns is nice to have, but the +10% to +40% damage seems weak for a skill with such a high cooldown and the initial damage is not that impressive either.

    +5% to +15% healing on Press Onward also seems quite underwhelming considering the cost in trait points.
    1. I think your feelings on Armour Rend is kind of an issue I think the Hunter tree has in general. I would like to go through and move some of the traits around. With other classes during the beta, I did a fair amount of reshuffling and it came out pretty well. I think for the hunter, while its not as pressing, some of the bonuses/traits could be moved around to make for some more interesting builds.

    2. Yeah Rain of Arrows and its trait is something that Kelsan and I always talked about a lot. I think there is some wiggle room in there in terms of how the proc behaves that we can explore. In terms of Lore, even without the proc the whole concept of rain of arrows does sort of stretch the lore a bit, but we have definitely put further stretches in there in the past. Before Beta, some of the trait names were very funny but not lore appropriate.

    3. Some people are a fan of increasing bleed ticks, but I am not really one of them. Our game doesn't handle additional ticks in a great way. Some games will add them in while the overall duration remains. Ours just increase the duration for each tick is has to add. Perhaps if we were to revisit that tech, I would feel better about it. But to me it can really muck with intended DPS and gameplay.

    4. The final mentioning of the numbers I agree with. I think there are some other issues I want to resolve, but I always like to make a trait point feel more worthwhile where I can.

    -Jinjaah

  22. #47
    I think I stirred up a bit too much muck the first time around on this topic, so trying again with 'better' wording.

    What are your thoughts on the kite-ability of a blue line hunter? Are you happy with a zero cd skill re-applying a slow that in combination with run-speed buffs makes a class specced for moving inductions able to backpedal faster than any pursuer?

    As much as this may sound like a loaded question, it is not. Just trying to put the situation in the most blunt terms possible.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    1. I think your feelings on Armour Rend is kind of an issue I think the Hunter tree has in general. I would like to go through and move some of the traits around. With other classes during the beta, I did a fair amount of reshuffling and it came out pretty well. I think for the hunter, while its not as pressing, some of the bonuses/traits could be moved around to make for some more interesting builds.
    Well I look forward to that then

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    2. Yeah Rain of Arrows and its trait is something that Kelsan and I always talked about a lot. I think there is some wiggle room in there in terms of how the proc behaves that we can explore. In terms of Lore, even without the proc the whole concept of rain of arrows does sort of stretch the lore a bit, but we have definitely put further stretches in there in the past. Before Beta, some of the trait names were very funny but not lore appropriate.
    Yeah, and I guess it's hard to give Archer classes AoE capabilities without going against the usual 1 arrow per shot. I guess you could give Explosive Arrow the proc instead but being able to spam explosives charges in LotrO is not a lot better I guess :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    3. Some people are a fan of increasing bleed ticks, but I am not really one of them. Our game doesn't handle additional ticks in a great way. Some games will add them in while the overall duration remains. Ours just increase the duration for each tick is has to add. Perhaps if we were to revisit that tech, I would feel better about it. But to me it can really muck with intended DPS and gameplay.
    I guess it also depends on which skills you consider for it. For skills with rather high cooldowns (Heartseeker bleed, Blood Arrow Extan.... bleed) it doesn't make much difference to me if the ticks come faster than every 2 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    4. The final mentioning of the numbers I agree with. I think there are some other issues I want to resolve, but I always like to make a trait point feel more worthwhile where I can.
    Yeah surely there's other things of much higher priority that should be done first, but I'm glad to hear they might get addressed at some point.

  24. #49
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    The lack of defensive cds is quite frustrating when half the creeps are now MTed BAs and wargs.

    I play my burg and Gambler has Bob and weave and the other like it in QK thats ON HIT. On top of possible double hips/TnG/FF. Then I play my hunter out there and its at the bottom of the food chain. Its fine if you like being in a raid with (enough) heals and cappies while the raid zergs your attackers. Solo kinda sux :P
    If you feel powerful now, go pvp and get caught solo by a good creep player and see how one sided the fight is.

    Even if BOTR is turned to a something like reaver wrath skill, or if endurance gave a passive parry/evade %, maybe % reflect...thats something.

    For stances, I think the ability to turn drop and reenter it without stance cooldown would fix the low buff duration. But then again, perma 40% evade.....does that count as a cd despite no cd?
    As for debuffs, with people having record high finesse now, -bpe seems abit weak compared to other debuffs. Archers mark should be turned to % instead.

    Also it might just be me but seems ps dmg didnt scale well out there againsts ranked creeps and their crit def is working much better than mine :P
    (60% crit def/19 aud and wargs still hit me for so much).

    Will look forward to any future changes.

    As for the hunter slows, it is abit much..50% slow with coffee with bubble and COTH....BUT it is our survival ability..considering every class out there barely have cds on thier skills anymore..
    Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I think I stirred up a bit too much muck the first time around on this topic, so trying again with 'better' wording.

    What are your thoughts on the kite-ability of a blue line hunter? Are you happy with a zero cd skill re-applying a slow that in combination with run-speed buffs makes a class specced for moving inductions able to backpedal faster than any pursuer?

    As much as this may sound like a loaded question, it is not. Just trying to put the situation in the most blunt terms possible.
    I am not happy with it at the moment. During implementation before Beta, we had long discussion about this very fear and at the time we had a very potent slow tied to the huntsman as the trade off. As we play tested it, we decided that the slow while induction was too much of a penalty that it took away the purpose of huntsman. I think the solution is to not touch the slow on the hunter and instead adjust the cooldown/duration of their slow to try and balance it out. For pvp, it just too powerful at the moment.

    -Jinjaah

 

 
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