We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 98
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902

    Unhappy Lms In HD Are Way Too Squishy

    well Lms die a lot faster than they did in RoR with HD pvp now...and if one warg uses its many silences it has well...Lms have 5 skills they can use and we cant cure it because stun immunity has an 18 sec cd...so basically if you get jumped by 2 or more wargs you just basically stand there and be a meat shield because you cant do anything silenced and what you can do is easily interrupted with a 3 sec eye rake...I had quite a few Lms tell me that they are just way too squishy...they kind of gotten the shallow end of things like the spider did.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,837
    I can count 4 silence removals the lm has access too, how many do you need?
    Rank 14 Minstrel, Rank 10 Rune-keeper, Rank 7 Champion
    Rank 11 Weaver, Rank 11 Blackarrow, Rank 10 Reaver, Rank 10 Stalker, Rank 9 Defiler, Rank 7 Warleader

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    1,259
    Quote Originally Posted by Daec View Post
    I can count 4 silence removals the lm has access too, how many do you need?
    As much as it takes to not die in a pvp zone.
    Landy, Brandy, & Riddermark [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?412044-Riddermarks-cast-of-characters&highlight="]Riddermark's finest[/URL] and [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?416597-Riddermark-Satire&highlight="]Riddermark satire [/URL]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    364
    LM's are still pretty OP in silencing creep healers though. With one of the EM sets you get a Silence with frostlore, completely blocks all heals on atleast a war-leader.

    LM's who run around with some waterlores stacked are still less squichie then some other classes around in the moors.
    [center][URL=http://s1170.photobucket.com/user/Glohir/media/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png.html][IMG]http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r524/Glohir/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png[/IMG][/URL][/center]

  5. #5
    Good you mentioned it, than I'm gonna work on completing the tradition set so I can have some nice support role in a group again
    Also, 4 silence removals:
    KoC: 15s cd, 2s induction (most of the time gets interrupted cause of the long induction, so this is a no-go, and you also have to save it for disarms)
    Fear pot: 30s cd, you see the issue on this already I guess
    SoP:R: You have to make a choice between 100% SI uptime (meaning you cant remove silence with it) or saving it for a silence removal, both are bad choices no matter what, before HD, SoP:R was THE reaction to silences, because of it's 5s cd (and the fact it had a long duration could give this skill it's multi-purpose role)
    Eh.. what is the 4th? I count 3 now, but I have no idea what the fourth way is.
    EDIT: Ah, moors fear pot and insignia, I have neither of those because I'm saving comms for aud gear, which explains why I forgot about them.


    But anyway, Im not asking for 4 silence removals, Ill only ask for 1, and that is getting our old SI back, the one that gave LM a reason in groups solely for that skill, yet still required the LM play well if they want to combine it with older things, that skill.

    Besides silences, LMs are also harmed by disarms, which are even worse.
    The only options for that:
    KoC: again, since it's nerf you can hardly get it off, and you cant protect this induction cause no other skills are available
    Wound pot, shares the cd with fear pot.

    That leaves, if you want to be able to deal with disarms as well, 1 reliable option to remove silence: the nerfed-to-the-ground SI

    This combination basically means the LM has no way to counter all of silence/disarm/stuns at the same time, which are critical for survivablity, since each of those hinder the ability to protect yourself.
    LMs cannot move while using skills that are critical for most purposes, and therefore are always behind with kiting compared to RK and minis, just this restriction alone makes playing LM in the moors not ezmode, and LMs should therefore at least have a good counter for those 10s graybars while keeping stun immunity.

    Let me ask for a disarm/silence duration nerf in the moors as well while I'm at it, they are OP for both sides, it works great as interrupt already, they don't need more.

    So, give LMs their old SI and curing back, and everything would be fine again And I want this for more than just pvp, I rarely pvp these days, it's also to bring back the main role of LMs (cc isn't the main role, it's part of it), since these nerfs basically destroyed it.
    Last edited by Vulcwen; Jan 07 2014 at 09:20 AM.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    119
    Loremasters are too squishy? Then why do I keep dying on my creep when I try to charge them from behind?
    Riddermark Freeps and Creeps: Morgunith, LM/Hadellost, Burglar/Nukzat, Reaver Rank 6
    Meneldor Freeps and Creeps: Cambanod, Cpt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    3rd stone from the Sun
    Posts
    19
    Please turbine,too hard in ettens:erase the creeps (cannot oneshotting them) and leave only the freavers rank 0 for the fightclubbing.Thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Good you mentioned it, than I'm gonna work on completing the tradition set so I can have some nice support role in a group again
    Also, 4 silence removals:
    KoC: 15s cd, 2s induction (most of the time gets interrupted cause of the long induction, so this is a no-go, and you also have to save it for disarms)
    Fear pot: 30s cd, you see the issue on this already I guess
    SoP:R: You have to make a choice between 100% SI uptime (meaning you cant remove silence with it) or saving it for a silence removal, both are bad choices no matter what, before HD, SoP:R was THE reaction to silences, because of it's 5s cd (and the fact it had a long duration could give this skill it's multi-purpose role)
    Eh.. what is the 4th? I count 3 now, but I have no idea what the fourth way is.

    But anyway, Im not asking for 4 silence removals, Ill only ask for 1, and that is getting our old SI back, the one that gave LM a reason in groups solely for that skill, yet still required the LM play well if they want to combine it with older things, that skill.

    Besides silences, LMs are also harmed by disarms, which are even worse.
    The only options for that:
    KoC: again, since it's nerf you can hardly get it off, and you cant protect this induction cause no other skills are available
    Wound pot, shares the cd with fear pot.

    That leaves, if you want to be able to deal with disarms as well, 1 reliable option to remove silence: the nerfed-to-the-ground SI

    This combination basically means the LM has no way to counter all of silence/disarm/stuns at the same time, which are critical for survivablity, since each of those hinder the ability to protect yourself.
    LMs cannot move while using skills that are critical for most purposes, and therefore are always behind with kiting compared to RK and minis, just this restriction alone makes playing LM in the moors not ezmode, and LMs should therefore at least have a good counter for those 10s graybars while keeping stun immunity.

    Let me ask for a disarm/silence duration nerf in the moors as well while I'm at it, they are OP for both sides, it works great as interrupt already, they don't need more.

    So, give LMs their old SI and curing back, and everything would be fine again And I want this for more than just pvp, I rarely pvp these days, it's also to bring back the main role of LMs (cc isn't the main role, it's part of it), since these nerfs basically destroyed it.
    exactly just give it a 3 sec cd and its old icon back and I would be fine because if 2 or more wargs get on you all they have to do is spam silences and you basically cant do anything and when 2 wargs target you with silences and the god forsaken 3 sec eye rake and lms cant move to attack...it irritates the hell out of me plus the wound removal is a 2sec induction plus another 25% induction ontop of that as soon as a warg gets on you..and reavers just shred Lms like cheese even easier than they did in ror
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Glohir View Post
    LM's are still pretty OP in silencing creep healers though. With one of the EM sets you get a Silence with frostlore, completely blocks all heals on atleast a war-leader.

    LM's who run around with some waterlores stacked are still less squichie then some other classes around in the moors.
    yeah but that is a perma silence and I really don't like playing cheap and I kinda don't like the stats on that 4 piece set.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Menomonie, WI
    Posts
    1,468
    I have to disagree with the op. Yes, we are squishier, but since you don't die instantly you just need to think differently.

    Diminishing returns are gone, so cc to your heart'a content, and the first chance you get - get tar down. Our bleeds are sick, get 1 BE off, drop 2 wizard's fires and the creep is now ticking for 5k damage every 2s (recall wizard's fire can be cast on the move AND it upgrades BE to searing embers.

    Just practice new methods, it will come around. Macro wargs are another story and we have lots on silverlode.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r8 Mini

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Good you mentioned it, than I'm gonna work on completing the tradition set so I can have some nice support role in a group again
    Also, 4 silence removals:
    KoC: 15s cd, 2s induction (most of the time gets interrupted cause of the long induction, so this is a no-go, and you also have to save it for disarms)
    Fear pot: 30s cd, you see the issue on this already I guess
    SoP:R: You have to make a choice between 100% SI uptime (meaning you cant remove silence with it) or saving it for a silence removal, both are bad choices no matter what, before HD, SoP:R was THE reaction to silences, because of it's 5s cd (and the fact it had a long duration could give this skill it's multi-purpose role)
    Eh.. what is the 4th? I count 3 now, but I have no idea what the fourth way is.

    But anyway, Im not asking for 4 silence removals, Ill only ask for 1, and that is getting our old SI back, the one that gave LM a reason in groups solely for that skill, yet still required the LM play well if they want to combine it with older things, that skill.

    Besides silences, LMs are also harmed by disarms, which are even worse.
    The only options for that:
    KoC: again, since it's nerf you can hardly get it off, and you cant protect this induction cause no other skills are available
    Wound pot, shares the cd with fear pot.

    That leaves, if you want to be able to deal with disarms as well, 1 reliable option to remove silence: the nerfed-to-the-ground SI

    This combination basically means the LM has no way to counter all of silence/disarm/stuns at the same time, which are critical for survivablity, since each of those hinder the ability to protect yourself.
    LMs cannot move while using skills that are critical for most purposes, and therefore are always behind with kiting compared to RK and minis, just this restriction alone makes playing LM in the moors not ezmode, and LMs should therefore at least have a good counter for those 10s graybars while keeping stun immunity.

    Let me ask for a disarm/silence duration nerf in the moors as well while I'm at it, they are OP for both sides, it works great as interrupt already, they don't need more.

    So, give LMs their old SI and curing back, and everything would be fine again And I want this for more than just pvp, I rarely pvp these days, it's also to bring back the main role of LMs (cc isn't the main role, it's part of it), since these nerfs basically destroyed it.
    Moors fear pot also removes silences.
    As well as the insignia.
    Rank 14 Minstrel, Rank 10 Rune-keeper, Rank 7 Champion
    Rank 11 Weaver, Rank 11 Blackarrow, Rank 10 Reaver, Rank 10 Stalker, Rank 9 Defiler, Rank 7 Warleader

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    622
    So because you are not longer able to win 2v1's, you now need a major skill change to occur?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yignificent_Nimogist View Post
    Loremasters are too squishy? Then why do I keep dying on my creep when I try to charge them from behind?
    Because you are too squishy as well? DPS, overall, is insane, basically everyone is squishy now, with only a few exceptions. It shouldn't be possible for a single skill to take over 50% of someone's morale, now reavers can oneshot with impale (not all the time, but they can), BA's with VT + revenge combo, if you don't immediately react with a cd, you're dead. On the other hand, LMs can hit 35k+ total (70-80%) with yellow-line lightning storm, 20k+ (25%) AItIs (they are pretty hard to get off in groups though).

    They need to fix dps at both sides, and give the classes that lack a bit in dps some more. This will ofc. have as result that if there are healers around nobody dies, so in the moors healing needs a nerf as well, to offset for a damage nerf. Knowing turbine, if they do something like this they will likely just put on a inc healing debuff on everyone, which also wrecks the balance as it makes inc healing debuffs more effective, so after that I'll expect a lot of qq about inc healing debuffs (turbine, don't make this mistake please).
    The problem with balance is, if you change one thing, you need to change the rest as well, but turbine doesn't realize this, and therefore there will never be balance (except if they make everyone immortal, than there is balance, but no more fun).
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    So because you are not longer able to win 2v1's, you now need a major skill change to occur?
    umm...no can you be any ruder? do you not know reavers can take down lms in seconds and a BA can VT and revenge a Lm into insta death unless you hit wotc
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  15. #15
    The LM's on our server seem to all have around 20k HP, they can self heal, do a boatload of AoE DPS, can AE stun, and have a ton of debuff removals not even counting Insignias and potions, the class gets its own stun immunity buff, which is crazy strong in the Moors...

    Other than Captains being super beefy in Yellow and Warden Bleeds still being broken, nothing is really stronger than an LM, and I play with them, not against them :P
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000000a2d6/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    The LM's on our server seem to all have around 20k HP, they can self heal, do a boatload of AoE DPS, can AE stun, and have a ton of debuff removals not even counting Insignias and potions, the class gets its own stun immunity buff, which is crazy strong in the Moors...

    Other than Captains being super beefy in Yellow and Warden Bleeds still being broken, nothing is really stronger than an LM, and I play with them, not against them :P
    Just today I was continually killing LMs grouped in less than 10 seconds while in a small group - with the pace of combat at its current level the LM does not stand a chance and cannot withstand focus fire.

    'Nothing is really stronger than an LM'

    How about blue champs, yellow cappies, yellow/blue guardians, yellow hunters, minis, any warden....

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    894
    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    so basically if you get jumped by 2 or more wargs you just basically stand there and be a meat shield because you cant do anything silenced and what you can do is easily interrupted with a 3 sec eye rake...
    If I get jumped by 2 or more LM's I'm toast. How is it possible for this class to be broken both ways?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    622
    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    umm...no can you be any ruder? do you not know reavers can take down lms in seconds and a BA can VT and revenge a Lm into insta death unless you hit wotc
    You should try using wind-lore.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    You should try using wind-lore.
    wow...when is this last time you have played a loremaster? or are you just failing hard at a troll? windlore is now useless unless half-way into CC trait tree it spreads debuffs to enemies only way to get a -50% ranged damage is to be traited a good decent into cc line and then you have to use fire lore then a lightning skill and its a 15 second -50% ranged damage and if you use a fire or frost skill during those 15 seconds it replaces that debuff with a attack duration or miss chance debuff.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    622
    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    wow...when is this last time you have played a loremaster? or are you just failing hard at a troll? windlore is now useless unless half-way into CC trait tree it spreads debuffs to enemies only way to get a -50% ranged damage is to be traited a good decent into cc line and then you have to use fire lore then a lightning skill and its a 15 second -50% ranged damage and if you use a fire or frost skill during those 15 seconds it replaces that debuff with a attack duration or miss chance debuff.
    I'm trolling as much as a person that makes a thread complaining about dying 2v1 despite playing a very strong raiding and grouping class that has plenty of options.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shumzuda View Post
    Just today I was continually killing LMs grouped in less than 10 seconds while in a small group - with the pace of combat at its current level the LM does not stand a chance and cannot withstand focus fire.

    'Nothing is really stronger than an LM'

    How about blue champs, yellow cappies, yellow/blue guardians, yellow hunters, minis, any warden....
    Stronger in terms of overall kit for survivability, damage, and CC.

    There are definitely classes that can survive longer.

    The flip side to your anecdote was the LM I played with the other day going 1v5 and getting 3 kills before he went down after about 30 seconds. There's always individual cases of players who are weaker, or playing against players who are weaker, but I think on average, LM's are reasonable strong.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000000a2d6/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    Stronger in terms of overall kit for survivability, damage, and CC.

    There are definitely classes that can survive longer.

    The flip side to your anecdote was the LM I played with the other day going 1v5 and getting 3 kills before he went down after about 30 seconds. There's always individual cases of players who are weaker, or playing against players who are weaker, but I think on average, LM's are reasonable strong.
    Against any reasonable creep you should not be winning a 1v1 let alone a 1v5, I was not playing against 'bad LMs' my class is simply much stronger...at least if you are not red rank .

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    I'm trolling as much as a person that makes a thread complaining about dying 2v1 despite playing a very strong raiding and grouping class that has plenty of options.
    ha...that is not what im complaining about my complaining is that Lms (and runekeepers I think) simply cannot take the huge dps increase that HD gave Bas wargs and reavers. iv killed creeps in a 2v1 plenty of times in HD who know what they are doing but I don't last 5 seconds against one macroing warg. im just saying when you get constantly hit with a revenge+VT combo for 12k and dev strike+ imaple when squishy freeps generally have 17k morale you don't last long my friend.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    894
    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    iv killed creeps in a 2v1 plenty of times in HD who know what they are doing
    So when you're winning 1 on 2 and 1 on 3, everything is working right, but when you lose to a creep, the game is broken?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    622
    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    ha...that is not what im complaining about my complaining is that Lms (and runekeepers I think) simply cannot take the huge dps increase that HD gave Bas wargs and reavers. iv killed creeps in a 2v1 plenty of times in HD who know what they are doing but I don't last 5 seconds against one macroing warg. im just saying when you get constantly hit with a revenge+VT combo for 12k and dev strike+ imaple when squishy freeps generally have 17k morale you don't last long my friend.
    Ahahahaha, so now that a class that used to have to gimp itself to make fair fights can no longer do so, everything has to change to fix that? LM's are still exceptionally powerful in groups and raids. Yes, their 1v1 potential is slightly diminished. Drink some cement and harden up you big crybaby.

 

 
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload