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  1. #101
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    Apologies, got my charge facts a bit muddled - but the point of the matter with it is that even with 27 seconds with the legacy maxed, charging at 60% will get you far, far away from any that seek to follow you.

    And the point is, I don't enjoy playing a class when its massively overpowered, and thus no challenge. My highest ranked Moors character is my cappy, he's r11, but since u12, I've barely taken him to the Moors, firstly because yellow line is massively overpowered, and secondly because creeps are getting almightily abused by a variety of overpowered freeps (of which guardians are just one). Guardians only stand out because they have both the 'unkillability' solo, and massive dps to go with it. Of course it depends slightly on the players, but our server plays host to several very competent guardians, who have no trouble exploiting the powerful situation they have been given.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Tolvax, Champion - And others...
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    Apologies, got my charge facts a bit muddled - but the point of the matter with it is that even with 27 seconds with the legacy maxed, charging at 60% will get you far, far away from any that seek to follow you.

    And the point is, I don't enjoy playing a class when its massively overpowered, and thus no challenge. My highest ranked Moors character is my cappy, he's r11, but since u12, I've barely taken him to the Moors, firstly because yellow line is massively overpowered, and secondly because creeps are getting almightily abused by a variety of overpowered freeps (of which guardians are just one). Guardians only stand out because they have both the 'unkillability' solo, and massive dps to go with it. Of course it depends slightly on the players, but our server plays host to several very competent guardians, who have no trouble exploiting the powerful situation they have been given.
    Well said Sir.


    In general though, could people please take a chill pill before crying nerf this and that? Both sides. How 'bout we see what u13 brings before the cries for nerfing kicks off? Fix creeps and scale/balance from there. All this crying is enough to make ones head spin...after all it's a semblance of balance we lookin' for, right? Not the, I-can't-kill-everything-with-my-chump-as-I-could-in-RoR-mentality that these fora are packed with.
    [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/547875_10152075720742701_46971757_n.jpg[/IMG]
    66 Maggot Street, Grothum, Arador's End, Ettenmoors.
    Laurelin/Landroval/Brandywine.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    Problematic skills/traits:
    Radiate - any melee creep attacking a guardian fears the bleeds they can bestow, as, if the guardians crits with a single bleed-enducing attack, then pops a couple of AoE skills, he will have t10 bleeds on all of his enemies.
    This is the main problem I see (especially on a low-ranked warg) This bleed lasts 280 seconds (nearly 5 minutes!), and deals over 100k dmg over the duration (though I must admit I have only 13 AUD). It cannot be potted or removed in combat in any way that I am aware. I do not know the exact range one must be in to be affected by this, but it seems to be about 20m.

    A Warg actually has it better than most classes with this. At least I can use Disappear to drop combat (every 3 minutes), but other than that, if I get this bleed, I die, no other outcome possible (barring a healer taking continuous pity for a few minutes)

    My opinion, there should be no damaging effects that last longer than 30 seconds, perhaps even 20.

  4. #104
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    Jun 2012
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    60

    Soloing keep

    Just witnessed a solo guard flip tr. Heard that the same guard has done the same trick with ta. if I ever solo a keep on creep there would be tens of freeps QQing how OP we are. And my cynicism is growing. The trend is that all freep classes will be soloing keeps rather than they do something about overpowered freeps. No wonder pve is so common in the Moors. I am all about auto flips being trashed but after this I am afraid we would see blue for ever if there isnt even some keeps flippin by itself.

    At least we can play we don´t care. Jeez

    [COLOR="#ADD8E6"][COLOR="#ADD8E6"][FONT=Impact][COLOR="#FF0000"]Those are wolves, one going before [COLOR="#FFFF00"]the sun[/COLOR], the other after [COLOR="#F0F8FF"]the moon[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]

  5. #105
    i'm pretty sure just about every freep class could solo flip every keep besides TA in at least one of their specs. I know champs can in blue and yellow. So I think all this implies is npcs being mince meat.

  6. #106
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    just my thought

    Actually this is the only freep (guard) I have seen capable for flipping a keep. Agree on that part that our npcs are way underpowered the way Ops are flipped under 1 min by almost any decent freep. Still I am absolutely certain that there aren´t many creeps that can solo a keep. If any maybe a reaver but as I haven´t played one I am not sure.

    This also shows the huge gap between 2 groups.
    [COLOR="#ADD8E6"][COLOR="#ADD8E6"][FONT=Impact][COLOR="#FF0000"]Those are wolves, one going before [COLOR="#FFFF00"]the sun[/COLOR], the other after [COLOR="#F0F8FF"]the moon[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]

  7. #107
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    845
    Wasn't there a reaver that soloed all keeps and delving bosses. I could be wrong but i thought remembered hearing that.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Revontulet View Post
    Actually this is the only freep (guard) I have seen capable for flipping a keep. Agree on that part that our npcs are way underpowered the way Ops are flipped under 1 min by almost any decent freep. Still I am absolutely certain that there aren´t many creeps that can solo a keep. If any maybe a reaver but as I haven´t played one I am not sure.

    This also shows the huge gap between 2 groups.
    Soloing a keep or ANY delving boss is comically easy for a warden, cappy, champ, or guard. Burgs can flip Isen or LC quite easily, and I'd speculate they can probably do TR/Lugz/TA in MM, Gary and the tree might be a bit troublesome but the drake is certainly easy for them. I'd bet the farm a mini, rk, or LM could solo any Keep or the drake as well, which basically leaves hunters as the only freep class I'm not sure can solo a keep. I'd even bet a blue hunter can flip LC/Isen at least, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    Wasn't there a reaver that soloed all keeps and delving bosses. I could be wrong but i thought remembered hearing that.
    Reavers can flip keeps, as can WLs. I've seen the drake killed by a reaver, not sure about the tree or gary. I've seen a spider flip Lugz with the help of Mazauk. Maybe when I get flayer I'll make an attempt on LC or Isen with warg.
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  9. #109
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    Jun 2012
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    Finland
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    Reaver

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    Wasn't there a reaver that soloed all keeps and delving bosses. I could be wrong but i thought remembered hearing that.
    Yeah on our server we have a reaver or two killing DOf bosses and flipping keeps solo. They did it some time ago. Think some part of the reason they could do that was creeps bugged audacity and heals from wrath. Also spamming sudden strike made reavers extremely strong. As far as my knowledge is applicable some of the skills were nerfed and our audacity got fixed. My tribe mate is r12 reaver. We could duo Or bosses. Of course, he played the role of a tank. Not anymore. His heals aren´t supporting his long fights against various high level npcs.


    Sorry for off-topic.
    [COLOR="#ADD8E6"][COLOR="#ADD8E6"][FONT=Impact][COLOR="#FF0000"]Those are wolves, one going before [COLOR="#FFFF00"]the sun[/COLOR], the other after [COLOR="#F0F8FF"]the moon[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    i'm pretty sure just about every freep class could solo flip every keep besides TA in at least one of their specs. I know champs can in blue and yellow. So I think all this implies is npcs being mince meat.
    Not only are NPCs fodder, but this fact actually plays into the hands of a guardian who can get more heals if there are larger number of NPCs to hit. All freeps run around in keeps with impunity though. It's not just guards. Keeps/NPC need to be adjusted. They should be at least somewhat of a safe haven or, at the very least, act as a speed bump. Right now they seem cosmetic at times.
    Jeffaman-Guarding Hobbit Jeffro-Burgling Hobbit Tinulaurien-Elf Lore Master Cephus-Champion of Men Lilnooblet-Hunting Hobbit Jeffrandir-Snooty Elf Rune-keeper- All of Brandywine
    Long live the halflings! Praise them with great praise!
    RIP Nidor - Brandywine's bravest warrior


  11. #111
    My reaver can solo OR (20 minutes) and just tested I can do drake (27 minutes) so it's possible. Guard can probably do it faster because I am phys mit traited and don't do much dps when doing it. It's more a sign NPCs are weak though than anything.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  12. #112
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    Just after HD release a reaver could do whatever he/she wanted, due to SS-Wrath spam and 2x auda. I'm sure every server had at least one rvr who bothered to check out what they could do back then, after all, it wasn't like the moors was packed with freeps in those days and some of us were sufficiently bored we did those things...
    Anyways. Now I have to spec for it, specs that makes it take like...forever. The time involved has kept me from even attempting Gary and rotten, possibly more so the fact that I'm pretty sure I'd end up failing horribly anyways.
    Every keep can be done though, it requires a sick amount of time, certain specs I wouldn't bring anywhere else for other than just that and calling in Tyr Uzu for TA makes things a lot more tolerable. (To be honest I've never attempted TA without Uzu, I've a feeling it would involve either A) me being scaled to lvl 95 instead of my current lvl 78. or B) a phat amount of good ol' luck. Chances are it would take both.)
    It needs to be said that those wicked non-dr npc disarms can quickly make things go very very wrong fast, it can be done though. I'm sure the vast amount of far better reavers out there than me find it less stressful than I do, I merely made this post to clarify that every keep can be soloed by both factions. Guess it needs mentioning too that the 'strain' it put on me while doing it on my reaver is outright laughable compared to on my guard.
    [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/547875_10152075720742701_46971757_n.jpg[/IMG]
    66 Maggot Street, Grothum, Arador's End, Ettenmoors.
    Laurelin/Landroval/Brandywine.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffor View Post
    Not only are NPCs fodder, but this fact actually plays into the hands of a guardian who can get more heals if there are larger number of NPCs to hit. All freeps run around in keeps with impunity though. It's not just guards. Keeps/NPC need to be adjusted. They should be at least somewhat of a safe haven or, at the very least, act as a speed bump. Right now they seem cosmetic at times.
    Hate to say it, but every passive proc effect should have an internal cooldown. Every single one.

    Only way to stop cheese like this in PVE-land as well as the moors. You put a 3-6 second internal cooldown on any trigger that happens passively, as it's the only way to stop unintended scaling on the effectiveness on the proc.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  14. #114
    A class that can bash that amount of dmg and make damage over time for 270 seconds on rank 10 bleed that can spread over players that are close to each other and perma slow you while you are in combat, while taking minimal dps is just.................

    And i see no one is mentioning that skill of guardian that works just like captains bubble - healing for 2-3% on hit.

    *Funny but true* Conclusion : Even devs NERF BAT cant hurt captains and guardians cause they will just last stand/bubble/sprint or if grouped - kill it.

    Cheers
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I've seen the drake killed by a reaver, not sure about the tree or gary.
    Reavers can solo Gary.

  16. #116
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    Guardians are very strong theres no denying it, but i have whitnessed many raids who are clueless as to how guardians, captains work.

    Once you know when to disperse or stop attacking, kite etc it can become a tad bit easier.

    Guardian packs is a thing that would be scary.
    Snowbourn - Commander Shakbasher - Lieutenant Glurf

    Warriors of The Great Eye

  17. #117
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    It seems that most people get contuinally slaughtered by guardians edit.

    Many have problems killing them with a whole group, because their defense and offense are just too strong.
    If they might get killed, they edit sprint away!

    So do we all agree, that guardians are too strong and need to be nerfed?

    Edit: edith

    serwas
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    It seems that most people get contuinally slaughtered by guardians edit.

    Many have problems killing them with a whole group, because their defense and offense are just too strong.
    If they might get killed, they edit sprint away!

    So do we all agree, that guardians are too strong and need to be nerfed?

    Edit: edith

    serwas
    I'm still waiting on your numbers so we can take a conclusive case to the Dev team for a nerf!
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I'm still waiting on your numbers so we can take a conclusive case to the Dev team for a nerf!
    I edit posted them some pages ago.

    Serwas: edit
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  20. #120
    We have the same problem on meneldor.

    We have a guard (blue line) and cappy (yellow line) that team up and are pretty much unkillable and don't take any damage. We have had over 20+ creeps on both of them and not even a drop in health
    No new raids 2014 was the true killing blow to Lotro.
    RIP Organized Chaos

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazen View Post
    We have the same problem on meneldor.

    We have a guard (blue line) and cappy (yellow line) that team up and are pretty much unkillable and don't take any damage. We have had over 20+ creeps on both of them and not even a drop in health
    You guys are pretty bad then because I was soloing Captain/Guard duos on my BA. It doesn't even matter that MT was reduced to a 15 second duration (I assume that my awesomeness was the reason why). I can't imagine how insanely easy I'm going to start slaughtering them once catapults get implemented. No doubt that MT will get changed again to a 5 second duration to help balance out the ensuing OPness.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Soloing a keep or ANY delving boss is comically easy for a warden, cappy, champ, or guard. Burgs can flip Isen or LC quite easily, and I'd speculate they can probably do TR/Lugz/TA in MM, Gary and the tree might be a bit troublesome but the drake is certainly easy for them. I'd bet the farm a mini, rk, or LM could solo any Keep or the drake as well, which basically leaves hunters as the only freep class I'm not sure can solo a keep. I'd even bet a blue hunter can flip LC/Isen at least, though.



    Reavers can flip keeps, as can WLs. I've seen the drake killed by a reaver, not sure about the tree or gary. I've seen a spider flip Lugz with the help of Mazauk. Maybe when I get flayer I'll make an attempt on LC or Isen with warg.
    Mate, yellow line hunters were flipping Isen and LC back in moria. Get with the times.

  23. #123
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    played my guardian in a tr/gv thing last night for the first time
    since coming to the moors and the only way I could live was to
    get lost in the crowd,as soon as they locked on to me it was
    death.so other than aoe bleeds that suck to land on a moving
    target I don't get how that toon is op at all.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandeath View Post
    played my guardian in a tr/gv thing last night for the first time
    since coming to the moors and the only way I could live was to
    get lost in the crowd,as soon as they locked on to me it was
    death.so other than aoe bleeds that suck to land on a moving
    target I don't get how that toon is op at all.
    I'd suggest that the reason you die so easily is a lack of audacity, and a lack of experience regarding how that character should be played in the Moors, which is very different to the way in which it should be played for maximum effect in pve. I'm not going to lay out all the ways in which guardians can demonstrate their excellent dps and survivability, as I wouldn't want to curse your server with another competent guardian, though if you are desperate, this thread does explain a few things.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Tolvax, Champion - And others...
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandeath View Post
    played my guardian in a tr/gv thing last night for the first time
    since coming to the moors and the only way I could live was to
    get lost in the crowd,as soon as they locked on to me it was
    death.so other than aoe bleeds that suck to land on a moving
    target I don't get how that toon is op at all.
    Come to brandywine! It is a haven for freeps who don't know why they're doing.
    Brandywine:
    | Rank 12 Reaver --- Danceswithswords | Rank 8 Warg --- Danceswithworgs | Rank 10 Warg --- Spectralhound (rip in ban world) | Rank 9 Champion --- Vorenroy (rip in ban world) |
    | Rank 7 Guardian --- Rexxin (the almighty dorf) |

 

 
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