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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    One PvE guard showing up after another. You should go to he moors and see the guardians wreck the creeps.

    But maybe its just the American guardians who can play the class to its full extent.

    Yes Draithenz i play a warg, and what would you say if one guardian (a tank!!) destroyed you and a wl in about a minute?
    I know how to play my class, but there needs to happen 1 thing: Guardian opness esse delendam.

    One PvE guard showing up after another.
    There are a lot of things that need to be addressed about in the Moors. Though if you change Freep sides Main tank will kill our Raids pretty much since Creep enjoying there Op'ness will be even more so. So even as I dont play a Guardian. I rather they not get screwed up in the process of making the wine a lot Creep side happy for all of 5 minutes before they complain about something new to nerf.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  2. #27
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    Tank guard should be allowed to stay the way he is.

    Damage guard is totally ridiculous and needs to be nerfed, most people can comprehend the difference between these two different specs. Didnt know if some of you are playing the game right now (1 or 2 comments ), but there are different specs for each class and you can change if you are out of combat. The tank spec is fine for pve, but the damage spec is over the top. edit

    So de we all agree, that guardians are too strong and need to be fixed?

    Edith
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  3. #28
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    I'm not.

    Why we can do a good output of damage ? Because that's what turbine decided when they change threat. Nerf the guardian tanking dps and only the captain will be able to tank. They already destroy warden/champ. It's enough destroying for 6 months.

    What turbine need to do, and I think they say they will do it is... balance things, both in PVE and PVP. Personnaly, I don't care about PvP as it was always lame in LOTRO... but I don't want to have another broken guardian because a single digit minority called PvP creeps whiners don't know how to kill a guardian. ATM, all creep/freeps aren't balanced, that's why I don't bother to PvP anymore.

  4. #29
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    /sign edit

    Really needs to be fixed.

    Edit: Edith
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardhik View Post
    They already destroy warden/champ. It's enough destroying for 6 months.
    Wardens considering themselves destroyed in pve are tards, warden is doing fine but guard is so OP and ezmode bad wardens cry.

    HS off

    Something I don't get is how a guard could kill a creep healed by a wl, maybe it was a greenie wl but I know two good creeps shouldn't die within a minute vs a guard.

    Guards are powerfull but really not overpowered compare to a warden, you know that class you can't kite with 28k moral, 6k damages bleeds, etc.
    Burg is overpowered cuz of their super high dps, insane controls and tons of cd's.

    Champ need some love for sure and I can understand it's hard to play now compare to RoI and RoR when you had to do 50k damages to kill a champ while he was doing insane damages, must be rude now for ezmoders. Anyway they already left their champ.

    Mini has an overpowered dps when it crits but is super squishy, you die during the stun and they reduced a lot our heals (I had 700/800 hps at RoR with hymn and CoS hots , now I'm at 300hps and it's fine like that).

    I can get some ppl consider guard is powerfull, it is, but it's not OP compare to most other freeps classes.

    By the way Derbiss, reaver can deal a lot of damages (11.6 single crit impale from Beatlejuice on my 20.6k moral mini, just saying) and has some nice cd's to survive and not being kited. You wanna nerf this class too?
    I personally don't want.
    Last edited by AngielaBrandywine; Jan 07 2014 at 09:46 AM.

  6. #31
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    When they nerf reaver DPS by 20%, guard DPS needs to be nerfed by at least 50%. And no it was edit not 2 grennies, the wl was on of the best on my server.
    The guardian runs around untouchable, taking no damage and killing everything with his insane damage.

    Champ is edit balanced, mini makes extreme damage but is squishy. Guard has everything all the other classes have, but much more of everything.

    Edith: The truth has to be revealed. But there are more and more guardians joining in this thread and defending the ridiculous opness...

    Serwas
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  7. #32
    OP, knock their 2.5% of max morale heal on crit down to 1%, and Guards are in a pretty good spot in pvp. Solid damage, but they've got nothing on Burgs, Minis, Hunters, wardens, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngielaBrandywine View Post
    Wardens considering themselves destroyed in pve are tards, warden is doing fine but guard is so OP and ezmode bad wardens cry.
    I kind of want to make this my bio.

    HS off

    Something I don't get is how a guard could kill a creep healed by a wl, maybe it was a greenie wl but I know two good creeps shouldn't die within a minute vs a guard.

    Guards are powerfull but really not overpowered compare to a warden, you know that class you can't kite with 28k moral, 6k damages bleeds, etc.
    Burg is overpowered cuz of their super high dps, insane controls and tons of cd's.

    Champ need some love for sure and I can understand it's hard to play now compare to RoI and RoR when you had to do 50k damages to kill a champ while he was doing insane damages, must be rude now for ezmoders. Anyway they already left their champ.
    champ really isn't that bad, they could use a more powerful bracing, or something similar so it isn't so sink or swim based on whether they have fight on available or not. Speaking of which, what a horrendous implementation of a survival skill.

    Mini has an overpowered dps when it crits but is super squishy, you die during the stun and they reduced a lot our heals (I had 700/800 hps at RoR with hymn and CoS hots , now I'm at 300hps and it's fine like that).
    You aren't dying in the stun on a 20.6k mini, unless its a warg pack, in which case you should be dead anyway. One of the beautifully stupid things that the new damage types and 2-set audacity armours has brought about is EVERY freep class is subject to almost identical incoming damage, Tank traited heavy classes are the only significant exception (unless you want to get into debuffing classes). Your 20.6k morale mini is almost identically as squishy as my warden, and some red-line guard. Anyway, imo red-line minis are a tad too high in damage output, primarily in the same way burgs are, where 2 skills produce absolutely silly amounts of damage. Reduce these a bit, and up the damage on some other stuff as compensation. I'm relatively ignorant on Mini's, but the real problem isn't the pure dps specced ones, its the minis who can put out 6-800dps all while healing through 1200 dps and remaining at full morale (I've no idea if this is a yellow spec thing, or a Blue/Red hybrid, or something else).
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  8. #33
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    Edith: edit

    Spelunker, please dont discuss minstrel and other classes here. If you want to compare them to guards, I shall allow it.
    But for discussions only about other classes, you have to find another thread.

    Im also not talking about PvE guardians, which most of you seem to be. Im talking about PvP gods (guardians).

    The nerf will come, when I send the PvP dev the numbers I have gathered so far.
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    Edith: edit

    Spelunker, please dont discuss minstrel and other classes here. If you want to compare them to guards, I shall allow it.
    But for discussions only about other classes, you have to find another thread.

    Im also not talking about PvE guardians, which most of you seem to be. Im talking about PvP gods (guardians).

    The nerf will come, when I send the PvP dev the numbers I have gathered so far.
    How about sharing these numbers with us? I've very interested.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    How about sharing these numbers with us? I've very interested.
    Im just in the process of gathering. This thread is one part of the bigger picture.

    Edit: edith

    Serwas
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I'm relatively ignorant on Mini's, but the real problem isn't the pure dps specced ones, its the minis who can put out 6-800dps all while healing through 1200 dps and remaining at full morale (I've no idea if this is a yellow spec thing, or a Blue/Red hybrid, or something else).
    This is a hybrid spec for sure or healing spec, 600/800 dps is really really bad I think I could do it with blue traits.

    Reaver is around 1k dps on me so I have to do 3k dps at least to kill a reaver as I don't use heals, fear, bubble or kite in a 1v1 (as long as the reaver doesn't blow wrath or ato).

    HS off

    I would be really interested in seing the first numbers you gathered Derbiss, guard was really overpowered on bullroarer but they got fixed and now are fine imo.

  12. #37
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    Some of the numbers:

    from guard:
    highest hit on me: 9537
    most dps (fight lasted 16sec): 2451
    average dps dealt on guard: ~450

    With their pledge and dwarf endurance and warriors heart and man heal and morale pots (ours are laughable) they do so much damage and take so little.

    So do we all agree now, that guardian is too strong and needs to be nerfed?

    edit: Serwas

    Edith
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    There are a lot of things that need to be addressed about in the Moors. Though if you change Freep sides Main tank will kill our Raids pretty much since Creep enjoying there Op'ness will be even more so. So even as I dont play a Guardian. I rather they not get screwed up in the process of making the wine a lot Creep side happy for all of 5 minutes before they complain about something new to nerf.
    Not really sure what you said here.. it's half gibberish and half broken-hardly legible English. I only gathered that you think guards tank pvp raids, and that they are necessary to prevent creep OPness. You are also worried they will nerf you more because creeps drink wine for 5 minutes?

    If this is off-base please elaborate further with your infinite knowledge of pvp raids and how to tank creeps, champs have a tank spec also, perhaps you should try and aggro switch the creeps and prevent them from going to the healers? Try that and see if that works =)
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
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    **Mac User**

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    One PvE guard showing up after another. You should go to he moors and see the guardians wreck the creeps.

    But maybe its just the American guardians who can play the class to its full extent.

    Yes Draithenz i play a warg, and what would you say if one guardian (a tank!!) destroyed you and a wl in about a minute?
    I know how to play my class, but there needs to happen 1 thing: Guardian opness esse delendam.

    One PvE guard showing up after another.
    I have seen Wargs pop in hit a single Freep including Guards and run like a little trick if they can do enough damage. Guards are our Tanks and even then there getting chewed ups most times. So I dont think anyone especially playing a warg has any room to cry here. We are lasted lasting seconds when your fellow wargs use of stealth, hip and run with many the case Macroes. Your ticked because you dont see them melt to your gimp hit and runs. Wargs will see there Nerf soon enough as you should be concerned about that.

    To Turbine dont touch our tanks as they make up for what Champions lack for in Raids.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  15. #40
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    For anyone who still is at this point, Draithen is a troll. Anything he says is trolling. Or maybe he's just got no idea how to play... Who knows?
    "All of us have left someone behind. That is why we brave the darkness. We fight so they may see the dawn."

  16. #41
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    No Draithen is surely a troll, but he doesnt even want to sound reasonable.

    Today I sparred with one of the 5 best tanks of the server (cant be blamed for playing a guardian, his main since SoA) - > 10 spars, 8 loses for me, 1 draw and 1 win (i was lucky with my evasion).
    The worst spar was where he had 14/24k morale left. He stuns you over and over again, the Dots are melting your morale and edit many off my skills dont hit him (except for claws, maul...).

    Edith: When freeps are getting their shiny 1. agers, we will be doomed.

    So do we all agree, that guardian is too strong and needs to be nerfed?
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    No Draithen is surely a troll, but he doesnt even want to sound reasonable.

    Today I sparred with one of the 5 best tanks of the server (cant be blamed for playing a guardian, his main since SoA) - > 10 spars, 8 loses for me, 1 draw and 1 win (i was lucky with my evasion).
    The worst spar was where he had 14/24k morale left. He stuns you over and over again, the Dots are melting your morale and edit many off my skills dont hit him (except for claws, maul...).

    Edith: When freeps are getting their shiny 1. agers, we will be doomed.

    So do we all agree, that guardian is too strong and needs to be nerfed?
    For my Fellow true Freeps. These are God Modders. The Elitest Power Gamers who wish to cripple Freep side one class at a time. Go ahead call me a Troll. Creeps seem to throw that tittle against any who disagree with there effort to get all of Freep side nerfed and get themselves nice packaged cheap to free victory points.

    We depend on Captains and Guards to lead the way in Raids as it makes up for the other Classes that were shorted in the HD update.

    As for our Gear. We have our basic raid gear if not all have there full updated raid set yet are still fighting with lvl 85 not 95 gear. All else remains at 85 including LI's 1st agers, cloaks, Jewelry, quest chest are still lvl 85 as not to mention all else is from before Moria. Morale and Power pots need to be updated.


    Yes I think most of the Creeps agree with you as what surprising about that. lmao. When I see BS on such a epic level. Your dam right I will say my peace. As just as you are.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  18. #43
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    It really depends on the Guardian - I have seen those like Kaern and Jaji fight very well but there are some players who have no idea what they are doing. Even if they are a little OP just let them enjoy it - they have been negected for so long and are finally enjoying being able to win.

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

  19. #44
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    Serwas.

    More and more PvE guardians gather in this thread, but this thread is about PvP. PvE is so ridiculously easy, that even nerfed you need not worry about dying.
    So when you get nerfed, its just better for overall balance.

    Most of you say: "We are overpowered, but thats fine. So I dont have to play as good as other people have to succeed in the moors, but ok, Im a guardian."

    When champs and minnies were overpowered in the last expansion, the people were also making threads to rebalance them, and now they are just fine. It takes time, but I do it for thousands of creeps who get slaughtered and hundreds of guardians, who edit want the challenge back.

    So do we all agree that guardian is too strong and needs to be nerfed?

    Edith: edit
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    Serwas.

    More and more PvE guardians gather in this thread, but this thread is about PvP. PvE is so ridiculously easy, that even nerfed you need not worry about dying.
    So when you get nerfed, its just better for overall balance.

    Most of you say: "We are overpowered, but thats fine. So I dont have to play as good as other people have to succeed in the moors, but ok, Im a guardian."

    When champs and minnies were overpowered in the last expansion, the people were also making threads to rebalance them, and now they are just fine. It takes time, but I do it for thousands of creeps who get slaughtered and hundreds of guardians, who edit want the challenge back.

    So do we all agree that guardian is too strong and needs to be nerfed?

    Edith: edit
    Told the Guardians who are in raids with me. Cant share how they expressed what they thought about your wacked need to nerfe there class. As I am guessing unless you can farm a class it is OP. lmao

    Should be more concerned about the nerfe team coming for your Warg's. lol As for the 95% if that is the case I am guessing are mostly is not all Creep side players as even one who claim there not.

    So true Freeps.say ( NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO. ) Hands off our tanks. You jacked my class up enough for all.
    Last edited by Draithenz1971; Jan 09 2014 at 02:15 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    So you do agree that champs are weak compared to guardians? Furthermore, all creep class are weak compared to the guardian. Their damage over time and their incredible survivability as well as their increased range make the guard an easy class to play.

    And the guards you wreck "so badly", are you sure that they are not edit rank 0s and skirmish pets?

    95% of people in this thread share my opinion so I come to the conclusion, that guardians are really strong in the opinion of the realistic PvPers.

    That there are guardians here and there who fear the nerf, is just a natural reaction. But I ensure you, it will come.
    No, it's the high rank zerglings I have to deal with. Yellow ones are slightly OP, but can also be beaten. Sure, a well played guard is OP... Isn't every class?
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    No, it's the high rank zerglings I have to deal with. Yellow ones are slightly OP, but can also be beaten. Sure, a well played guard is OP... Isn't every class?
    I agree to a point. Though I have seen Guardians go down fairly quickly. If not, just as fast as any other Freepside class out there. The whole Moors needs to be balanced instead of constantly beefing up and trashing the flow of others which only make yet another class on either side seem like the next OP class of the moment.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    /sign edit

    Really needs to be fixed.

    Edit: Edith
    Learn to play bro, guards are easy to take down

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    Told the Guardians who are in raids with me. Cant share how they expressed what they thought about your wacked need to nerfe there class. As I am guessing unless you can farm a class it is OP. lmao

    Should be more concerned about the nerfe team coming for your Warg's. lol As for the 95% if that is the case I am guessing are mostly is not all Creep side players as even one who claim there not.

    So true Freeps.say ( NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO. ) Hands off our tanks. You jacked my class up enough for all.
    Sorry, English is not my mother tongue, I dont understand what you are trying to tell me. edit

    As for the other people, the opinion of guardians in this thread sure is welcomed, but it counts to a minor degree. I also would be concerned, when somebody wants to have a nerf for my class, although in the eyes of a neutral person it sounds reasonable.

    And for the PvE guardians in this thread: tank guard can stay the way it is, but the moors guardian is just too strong and needs to be nerfed. When you see how your own class destroys its enemies in the moors, you would certainly agree with me. Just go in the moors and try it, you will have fun with your guard, but thats only because its ridiculously unbalanced.

    Edith: serwas
    Warg
    Minstrel
    Enemy of easymode

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derbiss View Post
    Sorry, English is not my mother tongue, I dont understand what you are trying to tell me. edit

    As for the other people, the opinion of guardians in this thread sure is welcomed, but it counts to a minor degree. I also would be concerned, when somebody wants to have a nerf for my class, although in the eyes of a neutral person it sounds reasonable.

    And for the PvE guardians in this thread: tank guard can stay the way it is, but the moors guardian is just too strong and needs to be nerfed. When you see how your own class destroys its enemies in the moors, you would certainly agree with me. Just go in the moors and try it, you will have fun with your guard, but thats only because its ridiculously unbalanced.

    Edith: serwas
    Well I primarily play creep and in my opinion the Guardian is one of the better balanced classes. I mentioned earlier that I thought they were slightly OP, but I was only referring to THE BEST Guardians out there - for a large majority of the Guardians I fight they struggle solo.

    In terms of OP freep classes - Yellow cappy>QK burg>mini>Warden but that is completely subjective because I creep mainly on my BA and that reflects in my selection. Which class do you play? I bet it is a creep class that is weaker against Guardian.

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

 

 
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