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  1. #1

    End to the Might "grace period"?

    Title kinda says it all.

    Can we expect an end to the grace period where might and agility both continue to benefit warden mastery any time soon? We're closing in on a full calendar year now.
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  2. #2
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    why?
    that would put us even more behind the other dps classes.

    our main role tanking ability is far behind of guardian and captains already.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MeLoWaR View Post
    why?
    that would put us even more behind the other dps classes.

    our main role tanking ability is far behind of guardian and captains already.
    Agree. Even now (with allowing might and agi both benefit mastery) we deal way less dps than any other class and only DoT based which is so bad for Big Battle and Enemies with low morale.
    In tank part we're far behind guardian and captains (and behind most champions too, don't forget). With all these armours of full vitality even in dps gear, every class got mitigation maxed on dps. So guard damage geared/traited got way more survivability than warden (it's a 20% more mitigations and similar or more avoidance).
    Anyways just think of the content: With really Overpowered gear and stats compared to mobs, wardens are in a survivability balance with mobs damage, while guardians and captains are way better at that. If they scale damage and boost enemies to make content not this easy, wardens tank traited would have really bad problems to survive against single target being really common to get 1 shotted in hits that would get guardians or captains just half morale.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by MeLoWaR View Post
    why?
    that would put us even more behind the other dps classes.

    our main role tanking ability is far behind of guardian and captains already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Agree. Even now (with allowing might and agi both benefit mastery) we deal way less dps than any other class and only DoT based which is so bad for Big Battle and Enemies with low morale.
    In tank part we're far behind guardian and captains (and behind most champions too, don't forget). With all these armours of full vitality even in dps gear, every class got mitigation maxed on dps. So guard damage geared/traited got way more survivability than warden (it's a 20% more mitigations and similar or more avoidance).
    Anyways just think of the content: With really Overpowered gear and stats compared to mobs, wardens are in a survivability balance with mobs damage, while guardians and captains are way better at that. If they scale damage and boost enemies to make content not this easy, wardens tank traited would have really bad problems to survive against single target being really common to get 1 shotted in hits that would get guardians or captains just half morale.
    what are you guys talking about with dps?

    No Oathies: To Fellowship Sambrog > Sambrog (15.3s); Desolates - Dmg: 189.9K; DPS: 12,445;

    That was a bit of an outlier where i might normally average 10k in a similar fight, but still... please post scenarios where ALL the other dps classes put that to shame. I'm not saying thats the greatest dps any class can do, but we're not getting left behind. If you want, I can SS some Combat Analysis from thorog runs the nest time I join a farm session on it, 2+ minute parses over 9k are pretty normal, even with multiple punts since i end up dps tanking much of it. Even with the stupidly high availability of force-taunt threat matchups I spend significant amounts of time LATE in fights with aggro while dpsing, and my gear is far from optimized.

    As far as tanking goes, yes its hard to really tell where things stack up, but i'm not touching DC in instances unless I somehow need a force taunt, or am running group/raid sized content without a healer. Might does nothing to address our tanking either. Mits are capped, and even with the rather lackluster tanking gear from scaled instances, I'm quite confident I could get bpe capped between the various sources of loot.

    If there are problems with the class, fix the class don't leave us in this limbo scenario thats so blatantly open to unintended outcomes.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    26
    If the grace period would end we would need agility to give at least x 2 block rating.
    I already take considerably more damage than a guard or captain.
    It doesen´t matter much because mobs are literally dead before they reach me but after rebalancing wardens will be one hit wonder again.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirata View Post
    If the grace period would end we would need agility to give at least x 2 block rating.
    I already take considerably more damage than a guard or captain.
    It doesen´t matter much because mobs are literally dead before they reach me but after rebalancing wardens will be one hit wonder again.
    In fact it's not hard at all to receive 10k hits and 15k dev hits from Durchest on a warden while guardians and captains are receiving those same hits with a magnitude of 5-6k for normal hits and 8k for dev hits, that's a huge difference. Right now it's not a problem but when they balance it out again, hits that will be 10k on guardians will mean almost 20k on wardens.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirata View Post
    If the grace period would end we would need agility to give at least x 2 block rating.
    I already take considerably more damage than a guard or captain.
    It doesen´t matter much because mobs are literally dead before they reach me but after rebalancing wardens will be one hit wonder again.
    Agreed 100% with the Block issue. Currently Block is my second highest un-buffed mitigation. Parry is lower by about 85 points ha ha. I've made an effort to keep some Might on my gear for the time being just to give me a boost in my Block rating but once the grace period is complete they hopefully do something about the Block rating that was given to us from Might.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    what are you guys talking about with dps?

    No Oathies: To Fellowship Sambrog > Sambrog (15.3s); Desolates - Dmg: 189.9K; DPS: 12,445;

    That was a bit of an outlier where i might normally average 10k in a similar fight, but still... please post scenarios where ALL the other dps classes put that to shame. I'm not saying thats the greatest dps any class can do, but we're not getting left behind. If you want, I can SS some Combat Analysis from thorog runs the nest time I join a farm session on it, 2+ minute parses over 9k are pretty normal, even with multiple punts since i end up dps tanking much of it. Even with the stupidly high availability of force-taunt threat matchups I spend significant amounts of time LATE in fights with aggro while dpsing, and my gear is far from optimized.

    As far as tanking goes, yes its hard to really tell where things stack up, but i'm not touching DC in instances unless I somehow need a force taunt, or am running group/raid sized content without a healer. Might does nothing to address our tanking either. Mits are capped, and even with the rather lackluster tanking gear from scaled instances, I'm quite confident I could get bpe capped between the various sources of loot.

    If there are problems with the class, fix the class don't leave us in this limbo scenario thats so blatantly open to unintended outcomes.
    Exactly what build and rotation are you using that gets you to 10-12K dps?

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    In tank part we're far behind guardian and captains (and behind most champions too, don't forget)
    I take it you don't play champ then? ST champ dps is... well... lets just say it takes a while to kill stuff.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Block?

    Because the true master of the shield is a warden off-course



    We can keep that up, is just stupid the way to do that

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiffyros View Post
    Because the true master of the shield is a warden off-course



    We can keep that up, is just stupid the way to do that
    stance swap ftw.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Agree. Even now (with allowing might and agi both benefit mastery) we deal way less dps than any other class and only DoT based which is so bad for Big Battle and Enemies with low morale.
    In tank part we're far behind guardian and captains (and behind most champions too, don't forget). With all these armours of full vitality even in dps gear, every class got mitigation maxed on dps. So guard damage geared/traited got way more survivability than warden (it's a 20% more mitigations and similar or more avoidance).
    Anyways just think of the content: With really Overpowered gear and stats compared to mobs, wardens are in a survivability balance with mobs damage, while guardians and captains are way better at that. If they scale damage and boost enemies to make content not this easy, wardens tank traited would have really bad problems to survive against single target being really common to get 1 shotted in hits that would get guardians or captains just half morale.
    well... its quite different in my case.
    im tanking far better than captains since they can only tank 1 target. that is the first thing i was going to say. and in addition guards are ebtter but they are meant to be better than us. they have force taunts 100% of the time.

    and second thing i disagree with you is dps. my desolation's dots crits like 8 to 10k its raw damage is 4k. and with 313 3131 gambits and desolation im easily outdps hunters in "blue traits" while "tanking"
    in red traits its not much different dps output differance is like 10% or less. and that example on single target. if there is 2 or 3 target to use desolation and 313-3131 with battle memory dps is dramatically high.

    also in survival park while tanking. you got DC for 12 sec every 20 sec. i am currently tanking with agi gear and around 21k raw morale (around 25 with buffs i think) and i am doing good. i dont die i hold agro and i do #### ton of dps.
    in my opinion the key is keeping NS always up and using DC as much as possible. if not, its a med armour class you dont have lotsa options there.

    and in big battles, no tank needed there. but if you do than you can. and dps wise your group shouldnt need your help but if they do, you need ranged gambits if you cant keep up with them. i always deal with siege equipment so i dont have much experiance there.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by draganil View Post
    well... its quite different in my case.
    im tanking far better than captains since they can only tank 1 target.
    You've been playing with fail Captains then. They have a trait for a 6(?) target force taunt among their other AoE's and the 3x threat multiplier in yellow, or the "godmode" tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by draganil View Post
    i am currently tanking with agi gear and around 21k raw morale (around 25 with buffs i think) and i am doing good. i dont die i hold agro and i do #### ton of dps.
    in my opinion the key is keeping NS always up and using DC as much as possible. if not, its a med armour class you dont have lotsa options there.
    Go into BG and try tanking Durchest in that gear, or any other main scaled t2 raid boss. 3-6 mans don't really count, because you don't even need tanks for the majority of those. You didn't say what instances so I am just assuming that you are talking about 3-6 mans / skraids because anything else t2c is unrealistic, with what you said.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiffyros View Post
    If we have an easy way to reach that 5% and a longer duration on it + change that + 380 evade on war-cry for 5% evade I would be very happy.
    That switching stances Block bonus is plainly bad designed. It just breaks all the tempo. If anything it should come by the hand of something like Persevere Finisher, not by switching stances every x seconds. Leave that 3-year-old playstyle for other classes please.

    And totally agreed, WC trait should be changed to Percentages (5% at max tier). I think that's something that was asked in Beta too.
    Also wouldn't be a bad idea to make a Passive for Wardens where they get +5% Parry when using a Spear, to get us in the 30% Parry game and to get the Spear back for tanking.
    25/30/30 BPE is where Wardens should be since HD launched, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiggleMan View Post
    You've been playing with fail Captains then.
    That seems to be the case.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DiggleMan View Post
    Go into BG and try tanking Durchest in that gear, or any other main scaled t2 raid boss. 3-6 mans don't really count, because you don't even need tanks for the majority of those. You didn't say what instances so I am just assuming that you are talking about 3-6 mans / skraids because anything else t2c is unrealistic, with what you said.
    Several OD T2C pugs have been fine with me in a 90% dps gear setup (I swapped 3 jewelry pieces for tanky stuff, from what I remember of those runs). In some of the runs with a healer i would classify as 'good' I went 95% dps/threat gambits with next to no regard for self-buffs or healing, and in some runs with pretty sketchy healing I had to change my approach considerably both for my own sake and for the survival of my side of the raid and was going very high priority on self-heals/life taps and doing just enough to hold aggro. Certainly with only about a 10% block chance and less than 50% crit defense I was leaving a lot on the table for survivability, but I never felt like I was the 'weak link' in the raid.

    I have heard both the BfE T2 trolls and durchest still pack quite a punch, but I haven't been a part of any raids in them since HD, so its possible that things are different there.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DiggleMan View Post
    You've been playing with fail Captains then. They have a trait for a 6(?) target force taunt among their other AoE's and the 3x threat multiplier in yellow, or the "godmode" tree.



    Go into BG and try tanking Durchest in that gear, or any other main scaled t2 raid boss. 3-6 mans don't really count, because you don't even need tanks for the majority of those. You didn't say what instances so I am just assuming that you are talking about 3-6 mans / skraids because anything else t2c is unrealistic, with what you said.
    well to be honest 3x threat gen wont hold agro from good hunters. and 6 target is not continously forced agro. well, at least doesnt hold agro from my rk.

    and i do tank durchest 2 times every week. with my dps gear. i dont run 3/6 mans really. and when i do i solo it. and usually run skraids with 2 people just to make it faster, they are pretty soloable too.

    i dont do pvp i am a raider if thats what we are called and i am pretty happy with my warden. there is only 1 problem for me, desolation needs to effect more targets than 3 and i already posted a topic about that.

    well, if you can not tank with warden right now, there is no way you can tank with a captain. guard is easy as i heard from my guard friends since they have force taunts but than again its all about skill. not your characters but your own.
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