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  1. #1

    Creepside Tribes/Groups

    Part commentary on pvp atm, part personal interest.

    Obviously 90% of the action since 12.1 has been grams/lugz shuffles. And while a lot of people will complain about it, it doesn't seem like anyone actually does anything about it. Freeps "backing off" of a Grams camp just sit by lugz back door and either play the door game if creeps have decent numbers, or wipe the floor with the creeps and drive them straight back to the 1-shotters. For their part, the vast majority of creeps seem content to do the same thing; hug the one-shots until numbers at grams mass enough for a zerg all the way to lugz, or just sit around tagging stuff and hoping the 1-shotters do their work for them. I see people advertising for craids or croups and 75% of the time when they've formed, they just continue doing exactly as has been described already.

    To head off all the commentary on balance issues, yes I'm well aware that freeps have the upper hand, and particularly certain class/spec combos are near unbeatable without massive numbers. But things aren't so bad its not worth trying, particularly trying to shift where and how engagements happen (and because there are so many freeps[and creeps] who have no idea what they're doing), yet so much of creep and freep side seem content with these garbage camps.

    So my question is, are there any/many active tribes or groups regularly putting out 4-6-12 person groups trying to get action throughout the map? I'm thinking of xferring my semi-store-bought mid-ranked reaver since E seems dead as a doornail; but I'd rather not waste the TP with a visible class that would be largely stuck with the craptastic pvp we've had lately. I'm not looking for a tribe invite, or an 'in' with a certain group, but if what I've seen from creepside since 12.1 is really all there is, I'll stick with ganking the fat kids at the rez.
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  2. #2
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    I see people advertising for craids or croups and 75% of the time when they've formed, they just continue doing exactly as has been described already.
    You see when craid and/or croup are formed they want to fight freeps, and when 90% of the freeps are at grams....then there is often no use to roam the map. If you dont like lugz-grams shuffle, change will need to come from both sides.
    Also often when these camps happen I just solo/duo or get a group going to look for the freeps who arent participating in the grams fest. So when you are on your warg feel free to shoot me (signature) a tell if you want to duo or group and see how it is and if you like my no voice lead groups rofl
    R14 Defiler Ezmoding, R12 warleader Hydraah, R11 reaver Lubshag, R11 warg Landvaettir, R15 hunter Pewpewboom,
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  3. #3
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    I'll be back in game in 1-2 days, so yes, there will be once again.

    Edit-Check you PM's
    Last edited by Moors-Battlemaster; Jan 02 2014 at 07:36 AM.

  4. #4
    I'm not sure there's any one side to blame for this. I don't like Grams camps. They're horribly boring for a champ but the large raid leaders seem to gravitate to this and that's when I typically leave.

    Usually I'll solo or team up with one or two other freeps and patrol the rest of the moors while this is going on. 9 times out of 10.. there's nothing else out except a random solo creep few and far between.

    Lately, the BD lugz to grams shuffle has been the usual. It's not bad, no different than fighting anywhere else in groups. And If I'm leading the froup I don't push and hold at grams because I like the ebb and flow of the battle.

    But if a craid of 18 -20 shows up to the 4 -6 that I have, yeah.. I'm gonna use the defensive position rather than get my group wiped.
    Borgorid of Brandywine - Leithiani Officer
    r11 - Champ , r8 - Mini, r6 - Burg , r6 - Warg

  5. #5
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    6-12 man groups roaming the map are irrelevant when your opponent wants to sit and grams and farm their rank. Yesterday (New Years Day) between the hours of 9 am and 11 am Lugz was manually flipped from creep to Freep to creep etc a whopping 6 times. Dark Impulse has been running some reaver trains, small groups, etc and with the exception of the route from the Rez we don't find a whole lot.

    Not to say there is not great action, Meregash and Chily had a 6 hour RvR session, lots of fun. The entire map can be red, lugazag appears to be the target of choice for freeps.

    As for transferring, that's up to you. I saw both your warg and warden multiple times yesterday so you should largely have a feel for what the server is capable and willing to create.
    Barst
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  6. #6
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    Heh. My exact thoughts Deso. The only reason why I would want a (small) tribe is to be able to counter all this Grams camping, even though a lot of freeps seem to have glued themselves to the place.

  7. #7
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    Creeps go to where the Freeps are, and Freeps go to where the Creeps are. Many players (when unorganized on a large scale) do what is of most immediate advantage for kills or surviving, and it's not really the fault of any one side.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Obviously 90% of the action since rohan has been grams/lugz shuffles.
    ftfy

    i didnt make it any further reading in this thread though
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  9. #9
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    I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Sole :P

    Deso, check your forum messages already.

  10. #10
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    I too would like to see more of the map utilized.


  11. #11
    Last night wasn't bad. Creeps actually came out and owned lugz for a while. Put a good end to the camp there and had some good small group fights @ EC, TR, GTA.
    Borgorid of Brandywine - Leithiani Officer
    r11 - Champ , r8 - Mini, r6 - Burg , r6 - Warg

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    6-12 man groups roaming the map are irrelevant when your opponent wants to sit and grams and farm their rank. Yesterday (New Years Day) between the hours of 9 am and 11 am Lugz was manually flipped from creep to Freep to creep etc a whopping 6 times. Dark Impulse has been running some reaver trains, small groups, etc and with the exception of the route from the Rez we don't find a whole lot.

    Not to say there is not great action, Meregash and Chily had a 6 hour RvR session, lots of fun. The entire map can be red, lugazag appears to be the target of choice for freeps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    Creeps go to where the Freeps are, and Freeps go to where the Creeps are. Many players (when unorganized on a large scale) do what is of most immediate advantage for kills or surviving, and it's not really the fault of any one side.
    To put it bluntly, there is no hope for those freeps willing and eager to continuously do the grams camp thing as we've had recently. To expect someone interested only in those floating purple and blue numbers over their head to move about the map when they have a ready source of idiots willing to engage them is too much. While it isn't their fault, the onus is on creepside to force them out of this faceroll system. From my time here in RoR, numbers were enough to do so, now creeps need to make freeps pay for camping in other ways. This could be pve options like OP control or keep flips or farming their cohorts coming back from the rez, or trying to make it from GV. Most simply, if there is nothing at grams to farm, they'll have to go elsewhere. The majority of these camps aren't even by single coordinated raids, but 3-5 different duo up to 6-man groups. Taking away their meal money means they'll split up rather than sitting in the safety of their freep ball. Maybe 20 freeps in different groups sitting in one spot isn't beatable by 20-30 creeps, even if they're grouped/coordinated. Split them up to look for creeps and now a 6-10 man creep group is going to have ample opportunities for action that they can get something out of.

    (all the same goes in reverse when creeps camp gv of course, though i do prefer that as there is a more varied and usable landscape between gtr/tr rez and GV than there is between lugz/lugz rez and grams)

    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    As for transferring, that's up to you. I saw both your warg and warden multiple times yesterday so you should largely have a feel for what the server is capable and willing to create.
    I saw a good deal of what the server was capable of at the end of RoR, and that fit my liking well enough. As long as the lag wasn't too bad there was something for every playstyle, as long as you can accept that the craid or fraid finding you is inevitable. As of today, I have been in exactly 1 group creepside since coming here, and know a half handful of creeps (and maybe a half handful know me, my /ooc ramblings aside). 'Pugging' seems rather scant, and coordination in open channels very limited thanks to the hilariously pathetic spy situation. In my time here I've honestly only seen a small handful of players in coordinated, skilled 3-6-12 man groups looking for a good fight. This may come down to the relatively quiet ooc here, my not being in any tribe, and the places I choose to frequent as a solo rez ganker, which is why I started this thread (along with of course voicing my displeasure at the state of affairs since 12.1).
    Quote Originally Posted by klover307 View Post
    ftfy

    i didnt make it any further reading in this thread though
    I was only on BW for a month in RoR, so maybe. GV camps (that were far less cancerous than the current Grams camps) were more common than grams ones, but the map generally seemed to have action all over. The only thing that really 'bothered' me about my time here in RoR was the soul-crushing lag at times.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Obviously 90% of the action since 12.1 has been grams/lugz shuffles. And while a lot of people will complain about it, it doesn't seem like anyone actually does anything about it. Freeps "backing off" of a Grams camp just sit by lugz back door and either play the door game if creeps have decent numbers, or wipe the floor with the creeps and drive them straight back to the 1-shotters. For their part, the vast majority of creeps seem content to do the same thing; hug the one-shots until numbers at grams mass enough for a zerg all the way to lugz, or just sit around tagging stuff and hoping the 1-shotters do their work for them. I see people advertising for craids or croups and 75% of the time when they've formed, they just continue doing exactly as has been described already.

    To head off all the commentary on balance issues, yes I'm well aware that freeps have the upper hand, and particularly certain class/spec combos are near unbeatable without massive numbers. But things aren't so bad its not worth trying, particularly trying to shift where and how engagements happen (and because there are so many freeps[and creeps] who have no idea what they're doing), yet so much of creep and freep side seem content with these garbage camps.

    So my question is, are there any/many active tribes or groups regularly putting out 4-6-12 person groups trying to get action throughout the map?
    In answer to your question; Yes, there are. However if there is a glut of Creeps/Freeps at one area (i.e. Grams) then all the other action eventually gravitates towards it for the hope of gaining better points (putting aside PvE action such as flipping Keeps/OP's, even though they may have PvP as a side effect, i.e. a Froup tries to stop a Croup flipping an OP).
    In terms of active Tribes; yes three or four.
    In terms of consistently putting out groups; hard to say. Better to try it out and see for yourself, my 6-12 man groups can very quickly turn into full 24 if the right situation is there, and can similarly disband if there is no apparent necessity for them.
    This is where you should define 'trying to get action' a bit more, a certain perspective could see Grams/GV camping as 'trying to get action' (although I beg to differ, rather that would result in stifling it in most cases).

    In regards to the Moors action itself (the Lugs BD > Grams shuffle) it's too hard to accurately predict what will happen and why, there are too many variables. It very much depends on which Freeps and which Creeps are currently playing, how many each side has, how geared/ranked they are, if anyone is leading a group/raid on either side and who they are, etc. Things can very easily swing to one side or the other (or to utter lag) if these variables change.
    For example if the Fraid outclasses the Craid and demolishes them repeatedly, the Craid may create a second raid or call goldtags to the fight, exacerbating the lag, if the Craids begins to demolish the Fraid then the Fraid may follow suit and create supplementary groups or allow goldtags to follow, this can very quickly create a maelstrom of lag. Not fun at all. :P

    My only complaints thus far, really, are the 30 second CD Minstrel flops (or whatever it is), unmitigated Freep bleeds, Yellow captains, Sondoor (you just make me lag, nothing personal :P), the unscaled Creep in and out of combat morale and power regen, ridiculously high Freep DPS even while traited 3 crit prot and the lowered Creep cooldowns (1min WL rezzes, 40second evade CD, 1min30 HIPS/Sprint).
    Although at the moment it seems Creeps need those short CD's in most cases, we really shouldn't. If they need to be that short then something is terribly wrong, and I see the 1min WL rez as a farm-mode enabler for Freeps tbh. :P

    Yours truly,

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Sole :P
    remember?
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  15. #15
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    Reverse angle

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  16. #16
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    That's a GV camp.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaChaLoco View Post
    In answer to your question; Yes, there are. However if there is a glut of Creeps/Freeps at one area (i.e. Grams) then all the other action eventually gravitates towards it for the hope of gaining better points (putting aside PvE action such as flipping Keeps/OP's, even though they may have PvP as a side effect, i.e. a Froup tries to stop a Croup flipping an OP).
    In terms of active Tribes; yes three or four.
    In terms of consistently putting out groups; hard to say. Better to try it out and see for yourself, my 6-12 man groups can very quickly turn into full 24 if the right situation is there, and can similarly disband if there is no apparent necessity for them.
    This is where you should define 'trying to get action' a bit more, a certain perspective could see Grams/GV camping as 'trying to get action' (although I beg to differ, rather that would result in stifling it in most cases).

    In regards to the Moors action itself (the Lugs BD > Grams shuffle) it's too hard to accurately predict what will happen and why, there are too many variables. It very much depends on which Freeps and which Creeps are currently playing, how many each side has, how geared/ranked they are, if anyone is leading a group/raid on either side and who they are, etc. Things can very easily swing to one side or the other (or to utter lag) if these variables change.
    For example if the Fraid outclasses the Craid and demolishes them repeatedly, the Craid may create a second raid or call goldtags to the fight, exacerbating the lag, if the Craids begins to demolish the Fraid then the Fraid may follow suit and create supplementary groups or allow goldtags to follow, this can very quickly create a maelstrom of lag. Not fun at all. :P

    My only complaints thus far, really, are the 30 second CD Minstrel flops (or whatever it is), unmitigated Freep bleeds, Yellow captains, Sondoor (you just make me lag, nothing personal :P), the unscaled Creep in and out of combat morale and power regen, ridiculously high Freep DPS even while traited 3 crit prot and the lowered Creep cooldowns (1min WL rezzes, 40second evade CD, 1min30 HIPS/Sprint).
    Although at the moment it seems Creeps need those short CD's in most cases, we really shouldn't. If they need to be that short then something is terribly wrong, and I see the 1min WL rez as a farm-mode enabler for Freeps tbh. :P

    Yours truly,

    ~Ushrak.
    I completely agree Freeps are ridiculous this update. However the last week or two I've spent many hours on creepside, solo, small groups and raids and have completely annihilated everything. Both the Arrik and Mere raids that I've been in we fought good raids led by competent people like Chilly and Goold and soundly whipped them scrounging up 20-30k infamy in a day, 15k+ in several hours. I was impressed by creep DPS as we were killing most targets before I could even reach them on a melee class which seemed a first for me in a craid as usually you give up and switch targets or it takes 10 secons of the craid leader using motivational loud speech to achieve the kill. Very, very rarley did we pop a WL rez, if we did it was for a single person no more. Also I died once in 5 hours of RvR on a reaver if that tells you anything. It seems freep AOE dps has been removed with the increase to creep healing. Oh and killing full morale bubble targets on a reaver with cheat impale is fun

    I don't know if freeps are just bad the last few days or if they are lagging worse but from what I've seen creeps are perfectly fine for small groups and raids. Solo is another story if youre against certain classes, but it goes both ways.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    I completely agree Freeps are ridiculous this update. However the last week or two I've spent many hours on creepside, solo, small groups and raids and have completely annihilated everything. Both the Arrik and Mere raids that I've been in we fought good raids led by competent people like Chilly and Goold and soundly whipped them scrounging up 20-30k infamy in a day, 15k+ in several hours. I was impressed by creep DPS as we were killing most targets before I could even reach them on a melee class which seemed a first for me in a craid as usually you give up and switch targets or it takes 10 secons of the craid leader using motivational loud speech to achieve the kill. Very, very rarley did we pop a WL rez, if we did it was for a single person no more. Also I died once in 5 hours of RvR on a reaver if that tells you anything. It seems freep AOE dps has been removed with the increase to creep healing. Oh and killing full morale bubble targets on a reaver with cheat impale is fun

    I don't know if freeps are just bad the last few days or if they are lagging worse but from what I've seen creeps are perfectly fine for small groups and raids. Solo is another story if youre against certain classes, but it goes both ways.
    So if you're not happy with your freep against 'invincible' creeps might as well join them? Okay.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...reep-PvP-Armor


  19. #19
    Borgorid of Brandywine - Leithiani Officer
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    good raids led by competent people like Chilly and Goold
    I lost it here


  21. Quote Originally Posted by Familiarity View Post
    So if you're not happy with your freep against 'invincible' creeps might as well join them? Okay.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...reep-PvP-Armor
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinchFries View Post
    +1 Familiarity. Evilspinnre finally got laid over New Years! Everyone say congrats!!!!
    Go back 3 years and you'll have an accurate post there.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Familiarity View Post
    So if you're not happy with your freep against 'invincible' creeps might as well join them? Okay.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...reep-PvP-Armor
    Creeps were invincible when the audacity was doubled during which time I played my freep. Also my frustration in that post is about rewards not equality. But thanks for taking the time to lash out with irrelevant focus and finding that old thread lol. I'm very happy with my freep was just commenting on my experiences, sorry if they offended you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    Creeps were invincible when the audacity was doubled during which time I played my freep. Also my frustration in that post is about rewards not equality. But thanks for taking the time to lash out with irrelevant focus and finding that old thread lol. I'm very happy with my freep was just commenting on my experiences, sorry if they offended you.
    So you want rewards that further destroy equality for full faceroll ability? And creeps weren't invincible then, RvR freeps held their own.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    I completely agree Freeps are ridiculous this update. However the last week or two I've spent many hours on creepside, solo, small groups and raids and have completely annihilated everything. Both the Arrik and Mere raids that I've been in we fought good raids led by competent people like Chilly and Goold and soundly whipped them scrounging up 20-30k infamy in a day, 15k+ in several hours. I was impressed by creep DPS as we were killing most targets before I could even reach them on a melee class which seemed a first for me in a craid as usually you give up and switch targets or it takes 10 secons of the craid leader using motivational loud speech to achieve the kill. Very, very rarley did we pop a WL rez, if we did it was for a single person no more. Also I died once in 5 hours of RvR on a reaver if that tells you anything. It seems freep AOE dps has been removed with the increase to creep healing. Oh and killing full morale bubble targets on a reaver with cheat impale is fun

    I don't know if freeps are just bad the last few days or if they are lagging worse but from what I've seen creeps are perfectly fine for small groups and raids. Solo is another story if youre against certain classes, but it goes both ways.
    I don't believe I made any specific commentary on the balance of RvR at the moment, only smaller mechanics that may play a part within the whole, anyway it seems perfectly fine to me when the lag is manageable and people are utilising focus fire properly.
    Oh, and yes I forgot about Impale, they need to fix that too (sorry Reavers).
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