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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Houstont, TX. United States of America.
    Posts
    24

    Lord Saruman, Dunland, and Cardolan.

    For those rather unfamiliar with Middle-Earth Lord, Cardolan was one of the Sister Kingdoms created when Arnor split in TA (Third Age) 861, the others were Arthedain and what became known as Rhudaur. It's been postulated that Rhudaur's original name may have been "Rhunedain" ("East-Edain").

    I'm wondering if the Lord Saruman might be more interested in expansion into Dunland and Enedwaith to the border of Cardolan, and perhaps seek and alliance with Cardolan.

    I'm concerned about taking an unnecessarily aggressive stance toward the Lord Saruman. To quote Queen Amidala from Star Wars EPISODE ONE, "I will not condone an action that will lead my people to war." My people are the Cardolani, and while I am not in any sense a spokesman for all Cardolani, it makes very little sense engaging in a conflict with the Head of the White Council, much less the Head of the Istari.

    We all know that Saruman has many titles, many by right. Besides those mentioned in the previous paragraph; Beren, Ruling Steward of Gondor, in TA2759 granted Saruman the Keys to Orthanc, making Saruman Defender of the West (de facto). Saruman claimed Lordship of Isengard in TA2953, effectively becoming Leader of All the Free Peoples and some add to that title "on Both Sides of the Hithaeglir (S. Misty Mountains)". If that be so, the Lord Saruman could be considered Leader of the Free World, which is an unofficial title used for the United States President. (I'm not sure how Queen Elizabeth II would feel about that!)

    We all know that the Lord Saruman had his foibles, but perhaps with the right diplomacy, he would be persuaded to consider a more peaceable westward expansionism into Dunland and Enedwaith, and conclude an alliance with a restored Kingdom of Cardolan. The only problem being, of course, would be discovering a proper heir to the throne of Cardolan.

    While Calenardhon was ceded to the Eotheod by Cirion, Ruling Steward of Gondor, in c. TA2509, this caused considerable hardship for the Dunlending immigrants that had lived in and developed the area since the Great Plague of TA1636. (In North America, this would be similar to the United States Government forcing the native Amerinidians from their lush, green ancestral homelands into inhospitable areas).

    My person opinion is that the Lord Saruman, in seeking to reinforce his position as Defender of the West, was reluctantly led to a decision that "played to" long-standing Dunlending hostilities against the blond Rohirrim (whom theu called "strawheads"). I could go into more detail, but that is for later on.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Houstont, TX. United States of America.
    Posts
    24

    Some detail.

    I felt a need to address some pressing issues.

    1. For whatever reason, Professor Tolkein explained that people groups (such as the Dunlendings) held animosities for what seems an extremely and inordinate amonunt of time, at least by contemporary reckoning.

    2. Also, when I mention the US Federal Government's decision to "displace" native Amerindian populations in North America, I have Cherokee ancestry. My grandfather, for example, could have lived on reservation. Although I am too distant, which I estimate about 1/64th, the Cherokee are still a part of "my people", my heritage for which I am proud. Cher sings a song about a woman that struggles with her Cherokee identity, the song title may be offensive to some, but resonates with me. We have a picture of my Cherokee distant-grandmother, and her white husband. She is dressed in the "white woman's" clothes of that day, but she continued to wear the side braids.

    Also, the concept of the "Dunlendings" resonates with me, as I see them similar in nature to the Scots, of whom I also am related. My distant Cherokee grandmother having married an immigrant from Scotland. Mama's maiden name is a particularly Scottish name.

    My personal last name is of Irish heritage, but my paternal grandmother had a proud tradition and her family can be traced back to the American Revolution. (Beyond that, my cousin hasn't studied our ancestry). According to my Grams, her father "owned the town" of Many, Louisiana, in Sabine Parish. After Grams' mother died, he married the town floozie. (Smile.)

    With those forebears in mind, I have given my character strong roots with a quite distant noble Cardolani heritage, and a sympathy for the Dunlendings, as well.

    Little hope have we for help from Gondor, but we shall restore the glory of Cardolan!

    Calimendil Calastir

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Slough,UK
    Posts
    1,024
    I am deeply sorry i did read both posts, twice ! but i still cannot find where the suggestion for the game is. Though i do seem to think you have some sort of deep political agenda that you are trying to use the lore to express.
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Houstont, TX. United States of America.
    Posts
    24
    Oh, maybe this should go under "Roleplaying" or something like that? I'm not sure how to move it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Grand 'Ole NY
    Posts
    444
    Just ask a mod to delete, then move on.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Houstont, TX. United States of America.
    Posts
    24
    Much obliged!
    Little Hope there is that help should come from Gondor, but we shall see the glory of Cardolan restored!

    --Calimendil Calantir

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,981
    Quote Originally Posted by Calimendil View Post
    I felt a need to address some pressing issues.

    1. For whatever reason, Professor Tolkien explained that people groups (such as the Dunlendings) held animosities for what seems an extremely and inordinate amonunt of time, at least by contemporary reckoning.

    2. Also, when I mention the US Federal Government's decision to "displace" native Amerindian populations in North America,
    However, what Tolkien was thinking of was the resentment by the native
    Britons of the Anglo-Saxons who moved in on them in the sixth century.

    And called them "Welshmen," meaning "foreigners."

    The Welsh resent it to this day. Really. I once heard of a Marxist revolutionary
    who complained to someone I knew -- so be cautious, this is at third hand --
    that he and his bunch were having a terrible time trying to convince the Welsh
    that the English common people were their allies and their enemies were the
    aristocrats and the bourgeoisie. Nope; so far as the Welsh were concerned,
    it was Welsh vs. English, and social class didn't count.

    This is why the Dunlendings in game have Welsh names.

    Note, on the other hand, that the phonology of Sindarin is derived from
    that of Welsh. (And that the phonology of Quenya is derived from that
    of Finnish. And that Tolkien had a lovely time figuring out the sound-changes
    that derived the latter from the former.)

    P.S. In any case, we know that Saruman's going to get no further north
    than the Shire, and that not for long.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

 

 

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