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  1. #1

    Who is in control, Sauron or the Ring?

    My friend would joke about the silly things Sauron has done, that lead to his defeat. Like leaving the front door to Mt. Dum wide open or wearing the ring on the outside of his armor. I started to think about it more philosophically. Then it hit me, what if the better part of his power comes from the Ring, and not himself? What if he forged it to become the most powerful being, but at the cost of having to bend his will to that of his own creation? That would explain the arrogance, and perhaps even a secret desire of his own to be free of the Ring! Could there even be a sliver of light left in his being, that is dominated by the wicked essence in the Ring?

    Think on that!

  2. #2
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    Not that simple, the ring philosophically speaking is "power", how much? well it depends on the wearer. When sauron forged it the ring gave him extraordinary power to destroy and became the menace he wanted to become, when the ring found other users for example Gollum it drived him crazy, Bilbo became too thin, etc. Because power corrupts, that is the main lesson, no matter who is power (Good or Bad) it eventually will corrupt, because power is winning and everyone likes to wiin.

    Absolute Power corrupts absolutely, I think Tolkien was thinking on those lines.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hothoen View Post
    Who is in control?
    I don't think this is an issue in Sauron's case. For him the One is a tool. A conduit/amplifier. The Ring after all is not a conscious entity. It's seductive as any great power is, it's in some ways steered by the powers it is imbued with, but the object itself is just that, an object.
    Sauron was indeed corrupted, but by the very nature of the powers he used. And he had been using them for far longer than the existence of this particular tool.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    I don't think this is an issue in Sauron's case. For him the One is a tool. A conduit/amplifier. The Ring after all is not a conscious entity. It's seductive as any great power is, it's in some ways steered by the powers it is imbued with, but the object itself is just that, an object.
    Sauron was indeed corrupted, but by the very nature of the powers he used. And he had been using them for far longer than the existence of this particular tool.
    I would not currently argue against any of that. The question does still remain what Tolkien meant by Gandalf’s (I think) statement: (something like) “The ring wanted to be found, It was trying to get back to its creator”.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RKL View Post
    I would not currently argue against any of that. The question does still remain what Tolkien meant by Gandalf’s (I think) statement: (something like) “The ring wanted to be found, It was trying to get back to its creator”.

    Gandalf does indeed say that At one point he says "A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it." and just a few setances later "It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him". So I would say the Ring has a will of its own in that it longs to return to Sauron.

    But there are other powers at work as well so its not always as simply as what the Ring/Sauron's will. The Ring may have left Gollum but some greater power, Eru, decoded tp put Bilbo in its path. Tolkien often uses the word chance but another word that Tolkien himself would have known is the Old English Wryd, often translated as fate but providence may be a better translation.
    Last edited by Meluihel; Dec 22 2013 at 07:47 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Meluihel View Post
    Gandalf does indeed say that At one point he says "A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it." and just a few setances later "It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him". So I would say the Ring has a will of its own in that it longs to return to Sauron
    As I said, it is of course by no means an inert conduit and the power contained within is acting through it to an extent. Though Gandalf meant this half figuratively too, he was alluding to Fate as much as the will of the Ring. (yeah, what you said )
    But any case, the roots of everything the One is lie with Sauron himself, so for him the problem was never the Ring but his own ambitions.

  7. #7
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    Melu and Ergo, well said I think the same way the ring wanted what sauron wanted.

    I think the One ring is a powerful tool, so powerful that is corrupts even the good people, so in Tolkien world power is synonymous of corrupt,evil.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    As I said, it is of course by no means an inert conduit and the power contained within is acting through it to an extent. Though Gandalf meant this half figuratively too, he was alluding to Fate as much as the will of the Ring. (yeah, what you said )
    But any case, the roots of everything the One is lie with Sauron himself, so for him the problem was never the Ring but his own ambitions.
    It's not a mere tool, it's his essence. So much of what made him deceitful and wicked enough to forge the Ring, was also placed into it. It's a part of Sauron's Being, and perhaps the worst part of it. He was too ambitious, he serves that which he created like all who lust after power they become a slave to their own ambitions.

    I believe the Ring to be a curse to all, even it's creator

 

 

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