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  1. #1
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    Suggestion: Hardmode item for those who want extra challenge

    There's been an ongoing debate about how much easier a lot of the content has gotten, particularly the landscape content. While some of the ease can be attributed to players just getting better at the game, there can be no denying that things have gotten much easier. I have light/med armour characters using gear 10-20 levels beneath their own who can handle multiple above-level mobs and signatures without breaking a sweat.

    I fully acknowledge that the game needs to accommodate casual players, and in fact I embrace that because I want the game to survive. But I DO greatly miss the challenging LotRO of bygone days. I miss running around East Angmar when it was first launched, in abject terror as it was impossible not to aggro multiple tough scary creatures. Now I can easily roll through there and barely even encounter a mob, let alone aggro one. I love challenge, and I'm really finding it lacking lately in the game. I regularly go around poorly geared in orange and red areas, but even that doesn't create enough challenge.

    Anyway, I digress. I propose that a store item be created, similar to the XP disabler, which nerfs a character and toughens foes so that the game challenge level is greatly increased to SOA levels and beyond. I'm talking hardmode here, not just balance. Something the average player wouldn't necessarily enjoy, but which veterans and more experienced gamers or those who crave near-death experiences would really enjoy. I would buy this, and I know others would.

    Pretty please!

    EDIT: I'm not just talking about balance, here. That is something that's been really improving, even since I first made this post, and I welcome it. I am talking about hardmode. I am talking about things being way more challenging than most sane people would enjoy.
    Last edited by frickinmuck; Apr 14 2014 at 07:29 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think this cannot be solved with store item. I propose there would be 2 difficulty settings in the game:


    Newbie: The difficulty were having now. Rewards would be bit nerfed.

    Normal: What lotro used to be 4 years ago. rewards like they are now.


    You could use either setting, and mobs would behave accordingly. If 2 different settings attack a mob, it would use the normal difficulty one.

    Or alternatively make the store item that adjusts mob difficulty. But I dont like the idea of some nerf item. Fighting could be more challenging, but not by making me inferior compared to others.

  3. #3
    +1!

    Cape of hardcore game mode!

    Uh, Cape of the Brazen Challenge! That sounds better.

    +100% incoming damage! + monster aggro range to whatever it used to be! What was it, 20 meters? Dread effects doubled! Dread on defeat is back! Potions disabled, too busy yelling at enemies to drink anything! Doom and etc.!

    +100% marks and medallions? + Exp for those experienced players on alts who are probably using this thing? No positive effects on it?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManaBone View Post
    +1!

    Cape of hardcore game mode!

    Uh, Cape of the Brazen Challenge! That sounds better.

    +100% incoming damage! + monster aggro range to whatever it used to be! What was it, 20 meters? Dread effects doubled! Dread on defeat is back! Potions disabled, too busy yelling at enemies to drink anything! Doom and etc.!

    +100% marks and medallions? + Exp for those experienced players on alts who are probably using this thing? No positive effects on it?
    Actually I think this could be a really good idea if expanded upon.

    I think they should add an item like this, sold in the store, but I hope fairly cheaply. It could work in the form of an LI, just without any levels. It would probably need a new, custom, interface, but it could just be the LI one with only 1 slot. Anyways, you either buy (this is all just to add incentive for them to do this) scrolls with legacies on them, or scrolls to add more legacy slots to the backpack; or every legacy will be on it by default, but disabled unless enabled. (Instead of legacies it could be relics as well but this wouldn't give an easy way to modify potency. They should be unslottable/disable-able/recoverable.) You get infinite rank upgrade points (/there isn't any points to upgrade).

    The legacies could be some things like:


    Legacy Range of Potency (fill in "_")
    +_% incoming damage (1-500%)
    +_m enemy detection range (disabled in groups) (1-20m)
    Y/N Dread from death (Yes/No)
    +_% Potions Cooldown/Potions disabled (25%-500%, after 500% it is disabled)
    -_% of incoming Coin Currency (0-100%)
    -_% outgoing damage (0-100%)
    -_% outgoing healing (disabled in groups?) (0-100%)
    -_% incoming healing (disabled in groups) (0-100%)
    -_% stat contdibutions from equipment, food, and virtues (0-100%)
    -_% ICMR (0-100%)
    -_% ICPR (0-100%)
    _x equipment damage (0-100x)
    -_% block, parry, evade chance (takes off from your stats) (0-100%)
    etc. (depends)


    You could use a simple reset points button, or a Scroll of Renewal, or new TP scroll, or vendor sold item to reset the legacies so you can modify it. Or it can just have a way to upgrade/downgrade the ranks on the go (which it should have if this costs money, particularly a lot of money).

    Or they could just give all players a trinket and add a trinket slot, and then you can modify the legacies as you please, for free. (Using the system above)
    Last edited by pittcrew1; Dec 12 2013 at 06:53 PM.
    [center]100 Burglar - Baldigar, 100 Minstrel - Desmio, 100 LM - Cartontolos, 100 Warden - Handorost, 100 Beorning - Geirvarinn, 100 RK - Thrandstar, 100 Captain - Aeganros, 100 Guardian - Heornar, 58 Hunter - Saerielle[/center]
    [center][color=cyan][b]Landroval[/b][/color], The [color=orange][i]Blackheart Pirates[/i][/color][/center]
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    [center][url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?527939-What-LotRO-needs-to-focus-on-(that-is-not-specifically-endgame)]My Mega Suggestions Thread[/url][/center]

  5. #5
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    An interesting idea, but it would take a lot of work on Turbine's part and, personally, I'd rather they focus on fixing existing issues and progressing the game forward to its end. Somehow they would need to balance the game around two groups of people: those with the 'nerf' and those without, and right now they need to finish balancing the existing content around their class overhaul and such. Not saying it's a terrible idea, and it's kind of an extension of the Skirmish tier system, just not one I see them investing the necessary time in at this point.
    "I am gloating so, so very much right now. Everyone called me a fool to do every deed! People pointed and laughed! And now, I have a horse with a smock! HAHAHAHAHA" - Anamatronix

  6. #6
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    A decent chunk of my kin (including myself) went "Naked to 95" on our first toon up from 85. It's actually pretty good and feels more balanced to the SoA days... yet still often times easier. Only a few points got a little challenging past lvl 90. It was nice though to actually read through all the new skills and learn how they work together to survive tougher fights.

    Then we put equipment back on after hitting 95, aka God mode.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne_EU View Post
    Or alternatively make the store item that adjusts mob difficulty. But I dont like the idea of some nerf item. Fighting could be more challenging, but not by making me inferior compared to others.
    I would actually prefer this too, but frankly I don't care how it's achieved, I just want more challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzdid View Post
    Somehow they would need to balance the game around two groups of people: those with the 'nerf' and those without, and right now they need to finish balancing the existing content around their class overhaul and such. Not saying it's a terrible idea, and it's kind of an extension of the Skirmish tier system, just not one I see them investing the necessary time in at this point.
    I think you may be overcomplicating what this idea means. It can be as simple as complex as Turbine decides to make it, but at its bare minimum I doubt it would be a big deal. It certainly wouldn't mean they have to balance for two groups. Those using this item would be fully aware that things are going to be difficult. That's the whole point.

    The payoff, besides revenue, would be satisfying and accommodate some of the biggest complainers in the game.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittcrew1 View Post
    Actually I think this could be a really good idea if expanded upon.

    I think they should add an item like this, sold in the store, but I hope fairly cheaply. It could work in the form of an LI, just without any levels. It would probably need a new, custom, interface, but it could just be the LI one with only 1 slot. Anyways, you either buy (this is all just to add incentive for them to do this) scrolls with legacies on them, or scrolls to add more legacy slots to the backpack; or every legacy will be on it by default, but disabled unless enabled. (Instead of legacies it could be relics as well but this wouldn't give an easy way to modify potency. They should be unslottable/disable-able/recoverable.) You get infinite rank upgrade points (/there isn't any points to upgrade).

    The legacies could be some things like:


    Legacy Range of Potency (fill in "_")
    +_% incoming damage (1-500%)
    +_m enemy detection range (disabled in groups) (1-20m)
    Y/N Dread from death (Yes/No)
    +_% Potions Cooldown/Potions disabled (25%-500%, after 500% it is disabled)
    -_% of incoming Coin Currency (0-100%)
    -_% outgoing damage (0-100%)
    -_% outgoing healing (disabled in groups?) (0-100%)
    -_% incoming healing (disabled in groups) (0-100%)
    -_% stat contdibutions from equipment, food, and virtues (0-100%)
    -_% ICMR (0-100%)
    -_% ICPR (0-100%)
    _x equipment damage (0-100x)
    -_% block, parry, evade chance (takes off from your stats) (0-100%)
    etc. (depends)


    You could use a simple reset points button, or a Scroll of Renewal, or new TP scroll, or vendor sold item to reset the legacies so you can modify it. Or it can just have a way to upgrade/downgrade the ranks on the go (which it should have if this costs money, particularly a lot of money).

    Or they could just give all players a trinket and add a trinket slot, and then you can modify the legacies as you please, for free. (Using the system above)
    This is actually a pretty cool idea, if it could be implemented. Then each player would have the ability to hone how much and what type of challenge s/he has. It would also be cool if the weapons glowed a certain colour that made it clear to others that person is playing hardmode. But I do agree this might be complicated to keep up to date, and what if someone wanted to start a new character in hardmode? We don't get LIs until level 45/50.

  9. #9
    Although I am traditionally a guy who likes challenging MMOs, for some reason the content nerfing in LOTRO has yet to bother me at all (even though it is exactly why I quit both WoW and RIFT).

    I think it's because being OP vs. landscape mobs is perfectly consistent with LOTR lore. Although not canon, just look at the movies. Look at how many orcs are mowed down in succession by Legolas, Boromir, Gimli, Aragorn, etc. Even the hobbits who have never fought are killing orcs at a decent pace at the end of the trilogy.

    This is what we are playing in LOTRO, and it's not really lore-breaking at all. We are SUPPOSED to be wading into huge mobs of orcs and goblins and leaving piles of bodies behind us. This game is not about challenge, but about the journey to Mordor. So I'm ok with it.

  10. #10
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    Why would I pay for something a game should provide? I mean traditional games I played in had easy, medium and hard (even hardcore, elite) game settings. I for one love the challenged but the game should provide it not another one of those dead end gimmicks from stores.

    Right now i'm in butt-naked cape, yes i'm running around in middle earth buttnaked with a cape. That solves one of the issues of not aggroing an entire camp (not die from foolish decisions of aggroing the entire camp) and it actually gives me a chance to visit the graveyard. The main issue for me is that all classes were given skills that are not even required to progress to higher levels. One can simply go prance their way from Bree to Rohan with starter skills. Just doesn't make sense to make "unique builds" or even work on them. Currently this game doesn't require equipment nor "Class revamp'd skills trees" which Turbine featured as part of their gameplay mechanics.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Whatevaplz View Post
    Right now i'm in butt-naked cape, yes i'm running around in middle earth buttnaked with a cape.
    This game would be a lot more realistic (per Tolkien) with completely non-magical gear and weapons and all of a player's abilities coming from level-based skills.

  12. #12
    I like this idea, so long as there is some reasonable reward tied to using the item. I'd also prefer not to have to pay for it, but truth be told, I'd probably shell out a few hundred TP for it if the rewards were worthwhile. Otherwise, why pay for what you could accomplish by running around naked.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    This is actually a pretty cool idea, if it could be implemented. Then each player would have the ability to hone how much and what type of challenge s/he has. It would also be cool if the weapons glowed a certain colour that made it clear to others that person is playing hardmode. But I do agree this might be complicated to keep up to date, and what if someone wanted to start a new character in hardmode? We don't get LIs until level 45/50.
    This isn't really intended to be an LI, at least not in the form that we are used to. It's simply a system-name I put to this idea because it very closely relates to how I imagine it could be executed. Other games have gems in sockets and so forth that could be representative, but I just used LI because it relates to this game. It would just be a modifiable pocket item or something, with a system close to what an LI has.
    [center]100 Burglar - Baldigar, 100 Minstrel - Desmio, 100 LM - Cartontolos, 100 Warden - Handorost, 100 Beorning - Geirvarinn, 100 RK - Thrandstar, 100 Captain - Aeganros, 100 Guardian - Heornar, 58 Hunter - Saerielle[/center]
    [center][color=cyan][b]Landroval[/b][/color], The [color=orange][i]Blackheart Pirates[/i][/color][/center]
    [center][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQrIwW8CUAAn8hK.png:large[/img][/center]
    [center][url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?527939-What-LotRO-needs-to-focus-on-(that-is-not-specifically-endgame)]My Mega Suggestions Thread[/url][/center]

  14. #14
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    I think my chosen name "nerf item" doesn't adequately explain what I am after. I don't want a simple nerf, I want things to be hardmode. I want challenges that I can't myself put into place by dequipping my gear. Broader aggro range, tougher, more tenacious foes that make bigger attacks and call for reinforcements, stuff like that - alongside nerfs to certain aspects of my character - things that put together would amount to a hardmode gameplay option. The devs know better than I do what might be done to accomplish this, but running around naked is not at all what I'm talking about. That alone isn't enough.

    As for rewards, meh. I don't much care about that. After all, loot and cash is easy to come by. Challenge, on the other hand, is a harder thing to find.

  15. #15
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    Chalenge mode made easy

    You can easily nerf yourself unequipped all virtues , change your armour to purple , or yellow gear , then run instances on t2c although I think its near imposable to run a T2C with no virtues and in all yellow gear , it would also be hard to prove that it could be done with no virtues and in all yellow gear as well , but GL trying it anyways .

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritsource View Post
    You can easily nerf yourself unequipped all virtues , change your armour to purple , or yellow gear , then run instances on t2c although I think its near imposable to run a T2C with no virtues and in all yellow gear , it would also be hard to prove that it could be done with no virtues and in all yellow gear as well , but GL trying it anyways .
    Yeah, you missed the point of my post. I'm not talking about instances and raids, where there are options for making things more challenging, I am talking about landscape, and I'm talking about more nuance and enjoyment than running around with no gear on.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Yeah, you missed the point of my post. I'm not talking about instances and raids, where there are options for making things more challenging, I am talking about landscape, and I'm talking about more nuance and enjoyment than running around with no gear on.
    Taking pittcrew1's concept and trying to simplifythe implementation to something that can be coded into an item without a new interface.

    1. Item is a "clicky", like the books awarded from the racial quests in Tal Methedras (for example Fireside Tales of the Shire ). So it takes up an inventory and a hotkey slot. (Or click from inventory if you prefer.) Duration is a useful number, like 4 hours. Cooldown is short, like 5 seconds. Resets to off if you end up in a rez circle or at logoff.

    2. Increasing mobs' aggro range would be a major coding headache. Instead, the item intentionally triggers aggro. When item is "on", it creates a trivial damage aura, like a 1 point DoT every 10 seconds in a circle 20 or 30 meters around you. Make it a 0 point DoT if possible, but even 1 point should be trivial enough. Basically simulate the mobs aggroing you by having you attack them. If the mechanism requires it, this can be limited to a max number of mobs, like 10. That should cover most cases, unless you're really wading into a crowd. This aura has no combat effect other than the 1 point and resulting aggro. (No idea if it can easily be suppressed from the combat log, and could be an annoyance if it clogged up that info.)

    Maybe this can use a trivial taunt mechanism instead of doing damage. Just puts you on the threat list of every mob within range.

    This effect should be suppressed on a regular horse. That way you can ride through gray mobs in order to get places as long as you mount up in a safe location. On a War Steed, it should be suppressed anywhere that your mounted skills are supressed. Would remain active on a WS if you have it on in Rohan outside of towns and non-WS instances.

    3. Reduce all of your calculated percentage numbers by a level based number. For example, reduce B/P/E percentages by your level X 0.1, so a 95 would get B/P/E percentages each reduced by 9.5 (not by 9.5%, but 9.5 subtracted from the percentage so that 20/20/20 becomes 10.5/10.5/10.5. Phys and Tac damage reduced by level X 0.5 so a 95 has 47.5 subtracted from the percentage numbers. Resistance and mitigation percentages reduced, ICMR/ICPR reduced, etc.

    4. Subtract 5 from your level for mob hit deflection calculations and for calculating success of mobs hitting you.


    The idea here is to come up with an item effect, a self-debuff, that makes you: take more damage, deal out less damage, have a harder time hitting mobs, be easier for them to hit, and draw aggro from everything within 20-30 meters.



    Instead of creating one item and selling for 500-600 TP, create two at half that price. One makes things challenging and is called "The Book of Pengail". Second is twice as challenging and called "The Book of Lalia".
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Taking pittcrew1's concept and trying to simplifythe implementation to something that can be coded into an item without a new interface.

    1. Item is a "clicky", like the books awarded from the racial quests in Tal Methedras (for example Fireside Tales of the Shire ). So it takes up an inventory and a hotkey slot. (Or click from inventory if you prefer.) Duration is a useful number, like 4 hours. Cooldown is short, like 5 seconds. Resets to off if you end up in a rez circle or at logoff.

    2. Increasing mobs' aggro range would be a major coding headache. Instead, the item intentionally triggers aggro. When item is "on", it creates a trivial damage aura, like a 1 point DoT every 10 seconds in a circle 20 or 30 meters around you. Make it a 0 point DoT if possible, but even 1 point should be trivial enough. Basically simulate the mobs aggroing you by having you attack them. If the mechanism requires it, this can be limited to a max number of mobs, like 10. That should cover most cases, unless you're really wading into a crowd. This aura has no combat effect other than the 1 point and resulting aggro. (No idea if it can easily be suppressed from the combat log, and could be an annoyance if it clogged up that info.)

    Maybe this can use a trivial taunt mechanism instead of doing damage. Just puts you on the threat list of every mob within range.

    This effect should be suppressed on a regular horse. That way you can ride through gray mobs in order to get places as long as you mount up in a safe location. On a War Steed, it should be suppressed anywhere that your mounted skills are supressed. Would remain active on a WS if you have it on in Rohan outside of towns and non-WS instances.

    3. Reduce all of your calculated percentage numbers by a level based number. For example, reduce B/P/E percentages by your level X 0.1, so a 95 would get B/P/E percentages each reduced by 9.5 (not by 9.5%, but 9.5 subtracted from the percentage so that 20/20/20 becomes 10.5/10.5/10.5. Phys and Tac damage reduced by level X 0.5 so a 95 has 47.5 subtracted from the percentage numbers. Resistance and mitigation percentages reduced, ICMR/ICPR reduced, etc.

    4. Subtract 5 from your level for mob hit deflection calculations and for calculating success of mobs hitting you.

    The idea here is to come up with an item effect, a self-debuff, that makes you: take more damage, deal out less damage, have a harder time hitting mobs, be easier for them to hit, and draw aggro from everything within 20-30 meters.

    Instead of creating one item and selling for 500-600 TP, create two at half that price. One makes things challenging and is called "The Book of Pengail". Second is twice as challenging and called "The Book of Lalia".
    These ideas are fantastic, and the names suggested are spot on! LOL

    Your clever ideas for artificially increasing aggro range are interesting. I think the taunt approach would be better than the damage one. Damage would make CC pretty much impossible, and part of the fun for me would be in managing the flow of battle.

    I love the implementation suggestions here, because I can see situations where I'd want challenge, and situations where I'd want INSANE. It would depend on mood, activity, etc. I would gladly sacrifice a couple inventory slots to have these items available for use whenever I choose.

    Another thing is, I don't know what mechanic triggers mobs to call for help, but I have to say that's one of my favourite things in-game, when I am killing something and it starts calling its buddies over. That's why I love elk hunting, for example. So if it wasn't too much trouble I would love for one or both of these items to trigger that behaviour from some or all of the mobs I am fighting. That would help maintain a steady stream of baddies, and just be fun. I always feel a pang of pity for the elk who starts trumpeting for help. That mixed with a pang of fear = excitement.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    These ideas are fantastic, and the names suggested are spot on! LOL

    Your clever ideas for artificially increasing aggro range are interesting. I think the taunt approach would be better than the damage one. Damage would make CC pretty much impossible, and part of the fun for me would be in managing the flow of battle.

    I love the implementation suggestions here, because I can see situations where I'd want challenge, and situations where I'd want INSANE. It would depend on mood, activity, etc. I would gladly sacrifice a couple inventory slots to have these items available for use whenever I choose.

    Another thing is, I don't know what mechanic triggers mobs to call for help, but I have to say that's one of my favourite things in-game, when I am killing something and it starts calling its buddies over. That's why I love elk hunting, for example. So if it wasn't too much trouble I would love for one or both of these items to trigger that behaviour from some or all of the mobs I am fighting. That would help maintain a steady stream of baddies, and just be fun. I always feel a pang of pity for the elk who starts trumpeting for help. That mixed with a pang of fear = excitement.
    Good point about AoE damage mucking up CC, so an AoE taunt is a much better method. (I don't play any class where I use CC, so forgot that bit.) Tiny taunt. Just puts you on the threat list of up to 10 mobs within the 20-30m range. I think CC'd mobs already have you on the threat list from the CC, and it won't break CC, so no problem there.

    Social aggro is in the game, such as the elks in Evendim & later (as you noted) or the pack leader wolves in HD. It started with the goblins on the outskirts of Dol Dinen running away and bringing back friends. Difficulty here is that the coding for this behavior is probably part of the monster and not you or your item. It's all triggered at a damage threshhold, as far as I can tell. Adding this to mobs that don't already have the behavior coded would be a big expense, and would change things for everyone. Adding it only to future mobs still could cause some issues.

    Many players, especially melee only classes, really hate the "take some damage then run away" behavior. They have to chase down the culprits. Gets annoying when it occurs in a large region, like all the goblin spear throwers in The Lone Lands. It doesn't make the mob tougher, really, it just means you have to chase them down to kill them. Adds annoyance not challenge. They'd have to run back with friends pretty quickly to avoid this.

    More "calling for help" behavior is acceptable. I don't recall any complaints about the elks calling for help. Mostly it was surprise at the sudden appearance of "killer deer" in Evendim. Initial problem here is that the AoE taunt is likely to pick up any mob that's in range of a call for help, so the call doesn't reach anything that is not already fighting you. Maybe it's possible to have the challenge item increase the range of calls for help. Combine that with an increase in the number of mobs which make such calls, and you get the desired effect.


    Playing Devil's advocate for a minute or two, thinking about how these could be abused.

    First thought is that AoE classes could use these items to speed slayer deeds for gray mobs. Turn on the item and run around a few seconds to gather a horde of targets for Champion shing, Hunter pew, etc., then repeat until deed complete. Hmmm. Can do this right now by two boxing with a second account and an on-level bait character. Also not much different than grouping with a couple of friends and killing all the mobs in an area.

    Griefing? Turn on the item and grab all the mobs from a low level player? If the low level tries to run into range and AoE them to get credit, you run away and let the mobs revert aggro to the lowbie and kill him? Not sure how/if this could pan out.

    I think it's a good idea to have a selectable toughness item that people can buy for a reasonable price to set difficulty according to their mood. Hope something comes out of it.
    Last edited by Nosdracir; Mar 21 2014 at 02:01 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Many players, especially melee only classes, really hate the "take some damage then run away" behavior. They have to chase down the culprits. Gets annoying when it occurs in a large region, like all the goblin spear throwers in The Lone Lands. It doesn't make the mob tougher, really, it just means you have to chase them down to kill them. Adds annoyance not challenge. They'd have to run back with friends pretty quickly to avoid this.

    More "calling for help" behavior is acceptable. I don't recall any complaints about the elks calling for help. Mostly it was surprise at the sudden appearance of "killer deer" in Evendim. Initial problem here is that the AoE taunt is likely to pick up any mob that's in range of a call for help, so the call doesn't reach anything that is not already fighting you. Maybe it's possible to have the challenge item increase the range of calls for help. Combine that with an increase in the number of mobs which make such calls, and you get the desired effect.
    Yeah, I'm not talking about the running away behaviour - that is just annoying, even for a hunter. I'm talking specifically about the elk "cry for help" behaviour. And it would be best as a % chance and not as a constant behaviour, or that would remove any opportunity for strategy in the use of the item. I think extending the range of that cry for help could solve the issues with aggro range. I think it is at least possible to make that behaviour item-triggered. It admittedly might be complex, but that's true with anything. I'm not worried about figuring out how to do it or whether it's possible. That's the Dev's job. I'm just going to put out ideas I like and see if they spark any interest or inspire any ideas.

    The Dol Dinen goblins have always been a favourite of mine. I wish more camps had snakes like these. I'd definitely be into seeing that behaviour pop up for certain mobs, for sure. But ultimately I just dig the idea of the cry for help being extended to others. More than just challenge, it adds realism. I'm going to try to remember to suggest this to HoarseDev, because he said in the recent BR dev chat that he's planning on adding some tougher mobs to the landscape in the future, and I would love to see at least a few mobs, or even warbands, with this behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Playing Devil's advocate for a minute or two, thinking about how these could be abused.

    First thought is that AoE classes could use these items to speed slayer deeds for gray mobs. Turn on the item and run around a few seconds to gather a horde of targets for Champion shing, Hunter pew, etc., then repeat until deed complete. Hmmm. Can do this right now by two boxing with a second account and an on-level bait character. Also not much different than grouping with a couple of friends and killing all the mobs in an area.

    Griefing? Turn on the item and grab all the mobs from a low level player? If the low level tries to run into range and AoE them to get credit, you run away and let the mobs revert aggro to the lowbie and kill him? Not sure how/if this could pan out.
    The slayer deed thing came to mind for me as well, but really - I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. Slayer deeds are a grind anyway. Any money lost in accelerator scrolls could be made up for at least in part by the sale of these items. As for griefing, I remember many years ago there was some griefing of this kind done occasionally, until changes were made to aggro that prevented that from happening anymore. From my perspective, griefing is already illegal in the game, so I don't see it as a big deal/likelihood. Worst case scenario someone gets killed and has to run back from the res circle. Since there's no longer dread in the game, there's really not much to lose by dying. Grabbing mobs from others could be a problem, for sure, though. Although open tapping makes that less of an issue than it might have been a couple years ago.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Taking pittcrew1's concept and trying to simplifythe implementation to something that can be coded into an item without a new interface.

    1. Item is a "clicky", like the books awarded from the racial quests in Tal Methedras (for example Fireside Tales of the Shire ). So it takes up an inventory and a hotkey slot. (Or click from inventory if you prefer.) Duration is a useful number, like 4 hours. Cooldown is short, like 5 seconds. Resets to off if you end up in a rez circle or at logoff.

    2. Increasing mobs' aggro range would be a major coding headache. Instead, the item intentionally triggers aggro. When item is "on", it creates a trivial damage aura, like a 1 point DoT every 10 seconds in a circle 20 or 30 meters around you. Make it a 0 point DoT if possible, but even 1 point should be trivial enough. Basically simulate the mobs aggroing you by having you attack them. If the mechanism requires it, this can be limited to a max number of mobs, like 10. That should cover most cases, unless you're really wading into a crowd. This aura has no combat effect other than the 1 point and resulting aggro. (No idea if it can easily be suppressed from the combat log, and could be an annoyance if it clogged up that info.)

    Maybe this can use a trivial taunt mechanism instead of doing damage. Just puts you on the threat list of every mob within range.

    This effect should be suppressed on a regular horse. That way you can ride through gray mobs in order to get places as long as you mount up in a safe location. On a War Steed, it should be suppressed anywhere that your mounted skills are supressed. Would remain active on a WS if you have it on in Rohan outside of towns and non-WS instances.

    3. Reduce all of your calculated percentage numbers by a level based number. For example, reduce B/P/E percentages by your level X 0.1, so a 95 would get B/P/E percentages each reduced by 9.5 (not by 9.5%, but 9.5 subtracted from the percentage so that 20/20/20 becomes 10.5/10.5/10.5. Phys and Tac damage reduced by level X 0.5 so a 95 has 47.5 subtracted from the percentage numbers. Resistance and mitigation percentages reduced, ICMR/ICPR reduced, etc.

    4. Subtract 5 from your level for mob hit deflection calculations and for calculating success of mobs hitting you.


    The idea here is to come up with an item effect, a self-debuff, that makes you: take more damage, deal out less damage, have a harder time hitting mobs, be easier for them to hit, and draw aggro from everything within 20-30 meters.



    Instead of creating one item and selling for 500-600 TP, create two at half that price. One makes things challenging and is called "The Book of Pengail". Second is twice as challenging and called "The Book of Lalia".
    I like these suggestions (and the modified ones below), and I do think that they would be much much easier to implement than my idea. It would obviously have less control, but if it were easier to add, I would be fine with even having it. I might suggest the book has a duration of 5 minutes, but can be used repeatedly to increase it (just to give more control).

    Keep in mind that mitigations are being changed with Update 13 (possibly). That will make the game a lot harder (depending on your class still). That's good, but at that point using an item like this could make it extremely hard (which might be how you feel it should be), but I think at this point it might be better for Turbine to keep what we are now (with maybe 1 mit. point for each primary stat) and just give these debuff books so we can control it. Some things may be too challenging to even attempt with a debuff like this (along with the changes), and I don't think that should be the case; I think anything should be possible if you are strategic, so they would need to work on working that out with their new combat modifications.
    [center]100 Burglar - Baldigar, 100 Minstrel - Desmio, 100 LM - Cartontolos, 100 Warden - Handorost, 100 Beorning - Geirvarinn, 100 RK - Thrandstar, 100 Captain - Aeganros, 100 Guardian - Heornar, 58 Hunter - Saerielle[/center]
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    [center][url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?527939-What-LotRO-needs-to-focus-on-(that-is-not-specifically-endgame)]My Mega Suggestions Thread[/url][/center]

  22. #22
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    I like the idea of hard mode, however it already existed in the game.

    Maybe not at early levels but at later level it would.

    No need for Turbine to change anything, You can do it yourself. For example, set a rule: Wear only Yellow or White armour stuff and weapons, no purple, no teal stuff. That would hinder your character big time. No virtues, no passive bonuses.

    I think I will try that with my next character :P playing only white or yellow armour/weapons!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by duvelmoortgat View Post
    I like the idea of hard mode, however it already existed in the game.

    Maybe not at early levels but at later level it would.

    No need for Turbine to change anything, You can do it yourself. For example, set a rule: Wear only Yellow or White armour stuff and weapons, no purple, no teal stuff. That would hinder your character big time. No virtues, no passive bonuses.

    I think I will try that with my next character :P playing only white or yellow armour/weapons!
    This has already been covered. Many of us have already been doing that for months or even years. It's an extremely inconvenient, unsatisfying, crude way of approaching the issue. We crave a more sophisticated approach, something that adds nuance and trickery into the equation. Something that someone with a head for numbers and bitter cruelty cooks up for maximum evil.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by duvelmoortgat View Post
    I like the idea of hard mode, however it already existed in the game.

    Maybe not at early levels but at later level it would.

    No need for Turbine to change anything, You can do it yourself. For example, set a rule: Wear only Yellow or White armour stuff and weapons, no purple, no teal stuff. That would hinder your character big time. No virtues, no passive bonuses.

    I think I will try that with my next character :P playing only white or yellow armour/weapons!
    For RoR and later, it's the level more than the color. My first characters through HD saved up yellow level 87ish BoE landscape drops and my Hunter used them to replace Hytbold armor and RoR jewelry. They were a huge improvement.

    This can also get tedious. A simpler way to take this route is to only use equipment with an item level equal to or less that your character level. That keeps things even at low level and filters out the uber gear after 50 or so. You can save that great item level 60 ring you find at 54 for when you actually reach 60.

    While we can do the above right now, I'd still like to buy a few of my characters items like I described. Would give me a way to evenly "turn up the heat" when I wanted a challenge or hard challenge without having to fuss over a vault full of lesser items.
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    While we can do the above right now, I'd still like to buy a few of my characters items like I described. Would give me a way to evenly "turn up the heat" when I wanted a challenge or hard challenge without having to fuss over a vault full of lesser items.
    Well said.

 

 
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