We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    10

    Vocation Balancing Issues

    EDIT: I'm an idiot, I overlooked a factor. My feedback is invalid.
    Last edited by Quantum123; Dec 07 2013 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Turbine solved this issue via the Processing Recipes.

    You only make weapons when you want to give, trade, sell or use them.

    Processing is a very efficient way to complete mastery resource wise. I used 83 pieces of leather to complete both anvils for Tier 6 - Supreme on one of my tailors today.

    One cool aspect of Processing is when you hit Proficient. You can now get a critical result when you run the Shavings --> Leather recipe which results in no loss of materials.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Dec 06 2013 at 11:44 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    What Yula said.

    On Tier 9, it takes 3 times the number of raw resources (if you only do the first conversion step) to master a gathering craft as it does to master a production craft (Scholar and Cook excepted).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    10
    If you were to buy the processed material for the processing skill, yes, it might take fewer resources. But if you go from scratch--like if you have both Prospector and Weaponsmith--you'll need the same number of resources (actually, more, as basic recipes at least give less XP).

    Also, those recipes you mentioned--does something that needs, say, 3 raw materials give the same amount of XP as making those 3 raw materials does? If not, then one skill is faster than the other. Doesn't work very well if you're training both skills, or if you're comparing the speed at which output improves between two skills. Making basic recipes up to Expert in Armsman, for example, will give you 3/8 times the XP for the weapon as for the ingots. (2 ingots at 8 XP each = 16 XP, weapon = 6 XP, 6/16 = 3/8).

    I just looked up a random high-leveled item (stumbled upon Crafted Champion's Axe of the Third Age). Requires 4 High-Quality Riddermark Ingots and gives 14 XP. The making of one High-Quality Riddermark Ingot gives 10 XP, so 4 of them is 40 XP.

    40 > 14. By a lot. 2 6/7 times more XP, to be precise.

    Also, your aforementioned solutions don't change the fact that Bronze is better training than Rich Iron, which is 2 tiers higher. (Disregarding copper's special case, it's much faster and easier to get--spawns are in a much smaller area and surrounded by much weaker creatures). It's about equal to Barrow-Iron (stronger protectors, a little more common), which is also better than Rich Iron. Both are better than Silver, which is once again better than Rich Iron.
    Last edited by Quantum123; Dec 07 2013 at 12:18 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum123 View Post
    If you were to buy the processed material for the processing skill, yes, it might take fewer resources. But if you go from scratch--like if you have both Prospector and Weaponsmith--you'll need the same number of resources (actually, more, as basic recipes at least give less XP).

    Also, those recipes you mentioned--does something that needs, say, 3 raw materials give the same amount of XP as making those 3 raw materials does? If not, then one skill is faster than the other. Doesn't work very well if you're training both skills, or if you're comparing the speed at which output improves between two skills. Making basic recipes up to Expert in Armsman, for example, will give you 3/8 times the XP for the weapon as for the ingots. (2 ingots at 8 XP each = 16 XP, weapon = 6 XP, 6/16 = 3/8).
    I'm not sure you understand what they are saying about the Processing recipes. You should not be making weapons to level up your weaponsmithing at all. You should only be using those when you actually want to make a weapon. You do not need to buy anything to do the Processing recipes, you just use the same raw ingots you would previously have used for making the weapons.

    Making 2 Barrow-Iron Ingots (for example, agree that the alloy metals make it more complicated) gives you 2x8 = 16 xp to Prospecting.
    Processing those 2 Barrow-Iron Ingots into 4 Barrow-iron Shavings gives you 8 xp to Weaponsmithing, and then processing those 4 Barrow-iron Shavings back into one Barrow-iron Ingot gives you another 8 xp to Weaponsmithing, and you still have an ingot left over.
    In fact it works out to 16 xp per ingot you start with, minus the last one you can't use because you need 2. So ie you only need to use 21 ingots to get the 320 xp you need for Journeyman Proficiency, whereas you need to make 40 to get to Journeyman Proficiency in Prospecting. Once you get into the Mastery tier it is even a little more efficient since the Processing can crit giving you the same xp with no loss of ingots.

    If anything, the crafts are considerably faster than the gatherings now, but that balances out the fact that you will actually make some real things you plan to keep/use/sell with the extra gathered resources which as you originally pointed out are much less efficient recipes. You just shouldn't use those just for xp, only if you want the crafted product.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum123 View Post
    If you were to buy the processed material for the processing skill, yes, it might take fewer resources. But if you go from scratch--like if you have both Prospector and Weaponsmith--you'll need the same number of resources (actually, more, as basic recipes at least give less XP).

    Also, those recipes you mentioned--does something that needs, say, 3 raw materials give the same amount of XP as making those 3 raw materials does? If not, then one skill is faster than the other. Doesn't work very well if you're training both skills, or if you're comparing the speed at which output improves between two skills. Making basic recipes up to Expert in Armsman, for example, will give you 3/8 times the XP for the weapon as for the ingots. (2 ingots at 8 XP each = 16 XP, weapon = 6 XP, 6/16 = 3/8).

    I just looked up a random high-leveled item (stumbled upon Crafted Champion's Axe of the Third Age). Requires 4 High-Quality Riddermark Ingots and gives 14 XP. The making of one High-Quality Riddermark Ingot gives 10 XP, so 4 of them is 40 XP.

    40 > 14. By a lot. 2 6/7 times more XP, to be precise.

    Also, your aforementioned solutions don't change the fact that Bronze is better training than Rich Iron, which is 2 tiers higher. (Disregarding copper's special case, it's much faster and easier to get--spawns are in a much smaller area and surrounded by much weaker creatures). It's about equal to Barrow-Iron (stronger protectors, a little more common), which is also better than Rich Iron. Both are better than Silver, which is once again better than Rich Iron.
    You want to use Processing recipes when you are improving your weapon smith skill. They are the most resource efficient way to skill up. You keep recycling the materials. I did all of tier 6 which is 1,800 points required for 166 harvested mats. That works out to be 10.84 crafting skill points per chunk of ore. Or 21.69 crafting skill experience points in weapon smith per ingot.

    Your mileage will vary because after Proficient you have the possibility of earning crafting skill experience points without consuming any materials.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Turbine solved this issue via the Processing Recipes.

    You only make weapons when you want to give, trade, sell or use them.

    Processing is a very efficient way to complete mastery resource wise. I used 83 pieces of leather to complete both anvils for Tier 6 - Supreme on one of my tailors today.

    One cool aspect of Processing is when you hit Proficient. You can now get a critical result when you run the Shavings --> Leather recipe which results in no loss of materials.
    Thanks for pointing this out. At this point I feel like looking in the mirror and saying to myself, "Duh!" good information and good to be reminded that I haven't learned everything about this game that there is to know yet

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    10
    My apologies for making an erroneous statement with regards to processing speed vs. gathering speed, I was unaware of the ingot to shaving to ingot again method. I will delete that from the initial post. However, the point still stands that making an Ingot is 8 XP at Apprentice, and the most you'll get for it at Westenment is 10 XP. A little odd, don't you think? This means Bronze is still better XP than Gold or Rich Iron. I checked a random gathering skill--Forester--to confirm that this is across the board, and indeed, an Apprentice Thin Rowan Board gives 8 XP, while a Westenment Walnut board gives 8-10 XP. Once again, this makes the lowest-leveled resource the best training method.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    777
    The new procesing does level up craft level much faster, unfortunately it does nothing for the gathering professions. Now my Tinker is stuck and unable to level to the next tier as a Jeweller, because he has to level his Prospecting skill before he is able to mine the mats needed.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Wof View Post
    The new procesing does level up craft level much faster, unfortunately it does nothing for the gathering professions. Now my Tinker is stuck and unable to level to the next tier as a Jeweller, because he has to level his Prospecting skill before he is able to mine the mats needed.
    Jeweler can also polish Gems
    Member of the Vocal Minority

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum123 View Post
    My apologies for making an erroneous statement with regards to processing speed vs. gathering speed, I was unaware of the ingot to shaving to ingot again method. I will delete that from the initial post. However, the point still stands that making an Ingot is 8 XP at Apprentice, and the most you'll get for it at Westenment is 10 XP. A little odd, don't you think? This means Bronze is still better XP than Gold or Rich Iron. I checked a random gathering skill--Forester--to confirm that this is across the board, and indeed, an Apprentice Thin Rowan Board gives 8 XP, while a Westenment Walnut board gives 8-10 XP. Once again, this makes the lowest-leveled resource the best training method.
    The "it takes more time, resources and effort" to get to the next level is a standard feature of these games. Within Lotro, leveling your character, raising your reputation status, increasing your crafting skill, increasing your standing with the crafting guild, increasing your war steed level are some examples of this situation.

    I do not find this situation odd at all. It is expected. Turbine sometimes diverts from standard MMORPG leveling design in Lotro. One example would be legendary items which go flat line once they reach level 30. The character leveling curve is mitigated by a slower increase per level in required experience points. Plus larger quest turn ins. Mob kills are very efficient at level 1-10 by level 60 you do not get much value from them.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    10
    *Facepalm* I'm an idiot, I just remembered that Bronze won't train Journeyman, and so on. No more need for this. (Note to self: Do not make feedback threads until you're sure of your info)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum123 View Post
    My apologies for making an erroneous statement with regards to processing speed vs. gathering speed, I was unaware of the ingot to shaving to ingot again method. I will delete that from the initial post. However, the point still stands that making an Ingot is 8 XP at Apprentice, and the most you'll get for it at Westenment is 10 XP. A little odd, don't you think? This means Bronze is still better XP than Gold or Rich Iron. I checked a random gathering skill--Forester--to confirm that this is across the board, and indeed, an Apprentice Thin Rowan Board gives 8 XP, while a Westenment Walnut board gives 8-10 XP. Once again, this makes the lowest-leveled resource the best training method.
    Not entirely sure what you mean here. Yes, processing a thin Rowan board gives much the same craft xp as processing a Walnut one does. The difference is that processing Rowan wood gives you no crafting xp once you've mastered the first tier of Woodworking. No matter how many tier 1 items you make, they won't be "better" than tier 2 or 3 items for crafting xp.

    The original plan for crafting was that we would do it along with leveling up, so that collecting the tier 5 mats would be done by a level 50 character for whom the collection was no more of a challenge than collecting the Rowan was for the level 10-15 character. That plan didn't last past the first month or so of play. Right from the start, people have made Explorer characters who level up and collect mats in higher zones to send back to their lower level crafters. However, it still takes the higher level mats both to level up higher tiers of skill and to make higher tier items.

    The other reason you don't get any more crafting xp for making a high tier ingot is that to keep some sort of balance, Turbine would have had to make maxing out higher crafting tiers even more expensive than they already are. They want us to grind, but not so much that everyone just gives up in disgust at the notion of having to grind out millions of craft xp to finish the higher tiers.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    777
    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    Jeweler can also polish Gems
    Still got to be able to mine them same as metals!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Avarune View Post
    Not entirely sure what you mean here. Yes, processing a thin Rowan board gives much the same craft xp as processing a Walnut one does. The difference is that processing Rowan wood gives you no crafting xp once you've mastered the first tier of Woodworking. No matter how many tier 1 items you make, they won't be "better" than tier 2 or 3 items for crafting xp.

    The original plan for crafting was that we would do it along with leveling up, so that collecting the tier 5 mats would be done by a level 50 character for whom the collection was no more of a challenge than collecting the Rowan was for the level 10-15 character. That plan didn't last past the first month or so of play. Right from the start, people have made Explorer characters who level up and collect mats in higher zones to send back to their lower level crafters. However, it still takes the higher level mats both to level up higher tiers of skill and to make higher tier items.

    The other reason you don't get any more crafting xp for making a high tier ingot is that to keep some sort of balance, Turbine would have had to make maxing out higher crafting tiers even more expensive than they already are. They want us to grind, but not so much that everyone just gives up in disgust at the notion of having to grind out millions of craft xp to finish the higher tiers.
    Yeah, I realized that afterwards... hence my deletion of the OP.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload