We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 61
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    4,706
    There's a couple of ways this could be fixed

    1. Make emerald shards available in skirmish camps. The flawed symbols are there and by rights that should be the premium drop. If the shard was added to the list it will allow those who are mark & medallion rich to cash in and get some coming down to the rest of us via the AH.

    2. Bring back "Shard Droppers" i.e. rare spawning elites.

    3. Make them a guaranteed drop from each T2C instance boss loot chest.

    I am aware that the shard can be obtained from the Helmingas rep barterer but in my view the price is too expensive for them to b obtained that way and then put on the AH.

    Anything to stop the reliance on the RNG.
    <A sig goes here>

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of the RNG right now. I've collected 1200+ skarn ore with no shards. I finally just spent tokens with the rep vendor to get one. I'll have to farm warbands or something to get enough tokens for a second one. I have two toons that get all rep and the rest of my characters just fill in group stuff when we need a class so they do the minimum. If I don't start finding shards at some point, and I have to barter for all of them, it's going to take me a couple of months to get my alts geared up.

    I guess that might be how it's supposed to work, but it's a bit frustrating.
    The shard rate is disappointing. However, if your alts have ally rep with Helmingas and you have ingredient packs in your wallet laying around collecting dust, you can make your gear for the low low price of 5 universal ingredient packs per piece of armor. No shards needed so long as you are making it for yourself on that account. If you are worried about getting the crit chance journal, your scholar (afaik) can also make the journals with them instead of shards if they have the standing with Helmingas (I'd have to check to be sure as my scholar isn't up to ally yet.) The lores the scholar can make ads 14/15% crit chance to the base so even without the crit item you get a 44% chance on crit if you have the new tools. So far I've had pretty decent luck outfitting 2 chars with them without the journals.

    I've given up on shard farming to be honest, I see people collecting shards all day long and reselling them for 200+ gold on AH. Good for them if they like farming nodes all day and night for gold, I have better things to do and since I had over 150 ingredient packs in my vault char, they got insta converted to universal packs, they might as well get used for something useful.

    ~~EDIT~~
    I just wanted to mention you still need shards for the weps as you can't make those without them. Just crafted armor/jewellry etc..
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Canal Fulton, OH
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    The RNG is certainly "streaky" and not following regular random number patterns. With a very low droprate the chance of having multiple successes in a row/very short timeframe should be very close to zero, yet I've seen it happening all the time since RoI (and didn't really play before). Wether the entropy source is bad, there are additional seed-values or other mechanics involved or the calls are screwed up by threading issues we can only speculate.
    And whoever claims the RNG is working correctly: You can never proof the absence of bugs, only their existance (short of complete formal verification, but that's more of an academic usecase).
    "random number patterns"? That sounds like an oxymoron to me.


    This cracked me up too:

    "I'm pretty much convinced myself that userID and/or characterID is involved somewhere in the algorithm."

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    I wonder if you were really around during MoM?
    Check join date.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    This is no where close to what Mithiral Flake drop rate is. I have 71 of them and given several away. Emerald Shards drop rate is unreal low.
    The drop rate NOW is different from what the drop rate was THEN. At this point, I have a couple of stacks of Mithril Flakes.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    It's not about how random numbers are generated, it is about how they are manipulated afterwards and linked to the loot table. There are many topics about the RNG and how it gives different results for different people. Turbine has never wanted to tell how it works, this fact alone tells enough. I'm pretty much convinced myself that userID and/or characterID is involved somewhere in the algorithm.
    That is speculation...and a conspiracy theory. How tight is your tinfoil hat?

    Some real-life examples :
    During a weekend with higher sturdy steel key drops, two people perform slayer deeds a whole day long. One finds exactly 0 keys, the other one 10. Luck ? I don't think so.
    Hobbit silver present : one get nothing else than rubbish, the other one gets SEVERAL scrolls of perfect lore in the same time frame (which are supposed to have a drop rate of less than 0,1%). Luck ? I don't think so.
    That is the behavior expected from an RNG. It doesn't matter what you believe about such things. I suggest you read a good book on probability and statistics.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Anything to stop the reliance on the RNG.
    That's pretty much what people want. They want a deterministic system, not a random one.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Adael View Post
    Price has to do something with the fact, that ppl realized that they cannot cash in with Flawed Symbol as much as they had hoped.. since everyone gets them free, one per alt. So gotta try and make cash on the shard now.
    I don't think it works like that. The main reason must be lower supply of Shards. If the supply was higher the price would drop, no matter how much some sellers would try to influence the market.
    In addition there is higher demand for Shards than usual as people can easier obtain Flawed Symbols.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/20224000000100363/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    Warden(85), Minstrel(85), Rune-Keeper(85), Burglar(85), Captain(85), Hunter(85)

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy_Phelps View Post
    "random number patterns"? That sounds like an oxymoron to me.
    Maybe bad wording, I meant the RNG shows patterns not expected to be seen in a normal random distribution far too often.
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt
    That's pretty much what people want. They want a deterministic system, not a random one.
    Some randomness is fine, but it shouldn't be the only relevant factor. The one reward-aspect where I would use a random factor is actually the one where Turbine went with a totally deterministic solution: currency rewards in instances could easily be changed to be in a range of n to 5n, instead of being fixed at 3n. Instead we get boolean randomness (bad) on gear drops.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post

    That is the behavior expected from an RNG. It doesn't matter what you believe about such things. I suggest you read a good book on probability and statistics.
    Having unlikely drop rates for individuals is only "expected" behaviour up to a certain level of probability. For example, if a duo fellowship both got 10 straight key drops from 10 enemies, this is unbelievably strong evidence that there is a problem with the RNG, regardless of how "possible" that outcome is. For another example, winning the lottery twice or three times is certainly possible (and has happened multiple times already). If I then go and win the lottery 48 times, I suspect that the lottery commission / police are going to become very interested in me, and "Yeah, but that COULD happen" is a poor defence.

    I don't mean to lend credence to tin-hattery, but it irritates me when people simplify the issue to "probability, therefore any outcome is completely normal".

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by oldqili View Post
    Assume the drop rate for emerald shards is 1 in 250 nodes.
    The probability of not getting a shard at any one node is 0.996.
    After 250 nodes it is 37%.
    After 500 nodes it is 13%
    After 1000 nodes it is 2%.


    If the server population has 1000 people looking for shards, and they all mine 1000 nodes, then on average there will be 20 people who have no shards. (bad luck!). However the server will have 4000 shards, and, on average, some people will have more than 4 shards each.
    Except that the system has no entropy calculator so there's no diminishing returns on probability based off of spawn. If the probability is 1/250 shards per node (it's probably way worse than that) than the chance for a node to have a shard is .4% it doesn't change just because you've mined nodes and haven't gotten a shard. It's still .4% every time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000000a2d6/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    Except that the system has no entropy calculator so there's no diminishing returns on probability based off of spawn. If the probability is 1/250 shards per node (it's probably way worse than that) than the chance for a node to have a shard is .4% it doesn't change just because you've mined nodes and haven't gotten a shard. It's still .4% every time.
    Which is why the person you quoted very clearly referred to "the probability of not having a shard after X nodes" and used (1 - p[shard])^X to calculate the result.

    But the discussion is futile, anyway, because it is heading in the very same direction it always does.
    I'll now leave you to (again) ignore the actual question that gets asked wrt. to loot distribution and (again) discuss wether or not people understand probability distribution and the hearsay that Turbine claimed all is well.

    SNy
    LotRO on Linux! http://SNy.name/LOTRO/
    Also home to the LI progression diagram.
    Find the new forums unreadable? Try my forum theme.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU View Post
    Which is why the person you quoted very clearly referred to "the probability of not having a shard after X nodes" and used (1 - p[shard])^X to calculate the result.

    But the discussion is futile, anyway, because it is heading in the very same direction it always does.
    I'll now leave you to (again) ignore the actual question that gets asked wrt. to loot distribution and (again) discuss wether or not people understand probability distribution and the hearsay that Turbine claimed all is well.

    SNy
    I think your missing the point. The math holds true and I am not arguing the math. I'm complaining about the frustration.

    Simply put if the RNG is set to 1/100 you have 99 chances on that one particular node NOT to get a shard. Chances do not recalculate with the next node, you again have 99 chances not to get a shard.

    The point I am trying, perhaps not so eloquently, to make is that the game is fraught with exasperation at many turns of the corner. One should not be feeling this when playing a game to this extent.

    Yes, the warbands are not coming up as dailies in the lower areas. How difficult would it be for them to post that message on the log in screen rather then me holding others up while I switch toons to see if my other toon was bugged. Then holding them up again logging all the way out and in only to find the situation is the same... and this was with a 90 and another 95 in tow that DID get the quests. So I spent a fair chunk of time with them that night killing 7 warbands with no reward. When the ticket I put in was answered, it was answered in the format of a message to submit a bug - ticket closed. How difficult would it have been for the GM to engage me and simply say "this is a known issue and we are working on it, submit a bug here, sorry for screwing up an hour of your game time..at this time you can only access dailies on the warbands in the higher areas".

    This is unconscionable, WRONG, on the part of LOTRO not to respond in a more professional manner.

    They should have a link on the log in for known bugs and issues with a please read.

    This release still screams of BETA. As a community we should be banding together to make things right and they should be supporting our concerns. This starts with the disclosure of these issues in a format that we can read and refer others to.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    The point I am trying, perhaps not so eloquently, to make is that the game is fraught with exasperation at many turns of the corner. One should not be feeling this when playing a game to this extent.
    [...]
    This is unconscionable, WRONG, on the part of LOTRO not to respond in a more professional manner.

    They should have a link on the log in for known bugs and issues with a please read.

    This release still screams of BETA. As a community we should be banding together to make things right and they should be supporting our concerns. This starts with the disclosure of these issues in a format that we can read and refer others to.
    Yes, indeed, and I am not in disagreement with you at all, just with what the poster I quoted wrote.

    In fact, the very issues you bring up here have made me stop playing even before HD and what I read about all those little silly broken and/or unfinished parts to the latest expansion just boggles the mind.

    But as you say, if I should pick one single thing that Turbine completely, on all fronts, fails at, it would be communication.

    SNy
    LotRO on Linux! http://SNy.name/LOTRO/
    Also home to the LI progression diagram.
    Find the new forums unreadable? Try my forum theme.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Califonia
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The drop rate NOW is different from what the drop rate was THEN. At this point, I have a couple of stacks of Mithril Flakes.
    I'd be excited if they maybe bumped it up just a little bit, maybe not to where mithril flakes are now, but some. They are much too expensive on the AH for me to get any, maybe when I hit 95 I will buy ONE to make my bow. As for those mithril flakes, I was thinking of paving the yard at my house in them...
    ****************************** ****
    Happy homeowner on Landroval and Laurelin!
    ****************************** ****

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    Yes, the warbands are not coming up as dailies in the lower areas. How difficult would it be for them to post that message on the log in screen rather then me holding others up while I switch toons to see if my other toon was bugged. Then holding them up again logging all the way out and in only to find the situation is the same... and this was with a 90 and another 95 in tow that DID get the quests. So I spent a fair chunk of time with them that night killing 7 warbands with no reward. When the ticket I put in was answered, it was answered in the format of a message to submit a bug - ticket closed. How difficult would it have been for the GM to engage me and simply say "this is a known issue and we are working on it, submit a bug here, sorry for screwing up an hour of your game time..at this time you can only access dailies on the warbands in the higher areas".
    I think it's maybe because people are just so accustomed to warbands being a repeatable daily quest that they assume this is a bug. Perhaps it is a bug, or perhaps it's working as intended, nobody really knows for sure... but your quest panel does display whether a quest is repeatable or not. This would have saved you some time by checking there.
    [COLOR=#ffd700]I'm a Banana[/COLOR]

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    805
    Playing since HD went live and have only gotten one shard from mining ore. I stop by most nodes that appear on the minimap. The drop rate definitely needs to be tweaked up a little. Shards were never so rare during the other expansions.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    your mind
    Posts
    3,880
    Although this conversation has turned to drop rates, I'd like to address some points in the original post.

    I'm glad this release is in better shape than Rohan or Isengard were when they were released.

    Heck, there are STILL bugs around from Isengard that were never fixed, but at least NPCs have names other than TBD and there's a map in that instance and not everyone falls to their death.

    Rohan seems to have gotten cleaned up nicely about six months after it's release.

    The bugs with this one aren't deal breakers, you can get platinum in Glittering Cave small fellow if lucky to not get the broken side quests, but you can still play it and have fun.

    Which leads me to the bigger issue, the lack of challenge/fun. I haven't had a character really at risk of being defeated once since launch. What's the point of playing if my participation is irrelevant to the outcome? (Note, I've put characters in situations like a bunch of MOBs five levels above them. Pulling what used to be "way to many" times three. Using a weapon 15 levels below me just to try to make fights last longer.)

    With removal of threat, groups don't even need to work together anymore, or pay attention in the slightest.

    Which isn't to say there aren't aspects I've had fun with, improving in Battles has been fun, and I've gotten plenty of entertainment value from them.

    It used to be you could generate a bit of a challenge in Lotro by doing things several levels above yours, but since miss chance was removed and replaced with the pointless "deflection", and now MOBs do no damage and players' damage is insane...

    Were this the case in Tolkien's Middle Earth, Frodo would have had no fear to blatantly stroll into Mordor kiting every orc, ring wraith, Shelob, Saruman, and Sauron himself, as his mitigations would negate their efforts to hurt him, Boromir would still be alive but appear like a pincushion, and Gandalf would still be his original grey incarnation, having one-shot the Balrog before even falling.
    Link to our community LOTRO store google spreadsheet pricelist and conversion rates, please contribute too!: https://goo.gl/wxPqCm

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    I think your missing the point. The math holds true and I am not arguing the math. I'm complaining about the frustration.
    That's my point about people wanting (and in some cases, expecting) a deterministic system. People want the surety that a shard will drop by the time they have mined some predetermined number of nodes, say 100. If they get it sooner, they're happy. If they get it on the 100th node, they think the "RNG" works and just hates them, but they get the shard anyway. But that sort of system *isn't* random.

    Part of the problem is that most people lack an intuitive grasp of the behavior of random systems. They think that getting streaks (in either direction) means it isn't random. They're wrong about that, but it's not--in most cases--intuitively obvious to them that it is an *expected* behavior.

  20. #45
    That's is entirely not the case. I am talking about Emerald Shards dropping sometimes to completely not dropping at all. For nearly a week I have yet to get a single one. Is there a chance or is Turbine forcing us to use out rep coins to purchase them at Helms Deep at a Unreal price 150 Westemnet Iron Coins. I don't expect to have them drop like Mitheral Flakes but I would like to know there is a decent chance. I truly don't have the patience to hear anyone justify how or why they do as i simply draw my conclusion from the end results.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    This is no where close to what Mithiral Flake drop rate is. I have 71 of them and given several away. Emerald Shards drop rate is unreal low.
    You didn't play MOM on release, did you?

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    South Tyrol, sadly in Italy
    Posts
    4,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    That's is entirely not the case. I am talking about Emerald Shards dropping sometimes to completely not dropping at all..
    Me and my GF got 6 so far which is still a joke, the crafting tools alone will eat up at least 5 of them, more if we want to crit things. Other people found 30+ of them, I guess they collect a lot more ore than I do.
    Isengard had a low drop rate for a while as well, but in the end I got enough shards.
    Eastern Rohan's drop rate was low, but not THAT low. And in Eastern Rohan it didn't matter all that much, since the Hytbold Armor saved some shards already, also the jewelry from 3 and 6 man instances was better than the crafted guild jewelry anyway. I think the rate is low, because also now we get most of our equipment from instances rather than crafting.

  23. #48
    I had hi hopes when I got 5 then it dead flat and nothing sense then. Tonight 200 Ore and no Shards again.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000264409/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  24. #49
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,839
    I am afraid my 800ish eorlingas skarn ore gathering represents an insufficient sample size to state anything with statistical significance.

    However, I found no emerald shard. I haven't experienced such a dry spell in a long time. It could indeed be just bad luck. But it could also mean droprates are at a lower level than what I am used to.

    If it is the latter, Turbine, please crank up that droprate.

    I've got 3 2nd age symbols waiting in my bags. They were considerably cheaper than emerald shards. I will not buy emerald shards at 100G + pricelevels. The ROR AH situation was exactly reversed. This is my best indication that something's miffy with the emerald shard droprate, as AH prices say something (not everything, but something indeed) about whole server population droprates, not just the individual player.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    554
    I understand its all supposed to be the same random # generator. Heck the drop rate for emerald shard just might be where its supposed to be, i dont know. But for previous tiered crafting nodes ive had no problem getting mithril flakes or cracked sigils. Since the release of the new crafting tier in HD I have seen people in glff click links to stacks of 15 or 20 at time. I know they are not available on the skirmish npcs yet because i checked multiple times at different camps. So the only places i know to get the emerald shards is from any crafting node including farming, warbands and the hemmingas rep barter npc @120 or 150 coins ea. currently their is no repeatable quests that i know about to gain more coins steadily so even using the rep barter npc is limited to how many you will get.

    Maybe it is all luck. I have 2 friends i play with on the weekends on meneldor. 1 got 1 shard within 100 ore collected. my 2nd friend has now got 3 emerald shards within 600 ore collected. they get to play only on the weekends where as i am playing every day. Ive collected 1900 wood, about 1500 ore, collected materials from about 25 scholar nodes and used 200 seeds farming pears and beans, anyone need any, lol. Plus i think ive killed 5 warbands. I have been harvesting nodes with 5 toons, woodworker, weaponsmith, jeweler, scholar and tailor. So far i have gotten 0 emerald shards. I used most of my wesment iron coins on getting the 2 hunter guides for hd and aldburd and also the return to skills for same locations. and spend the rest on recipes. did not even see the emerald shards on the list until after i had spent all my coins.


    So who knows, maybe it is luck and perhaps mine is just bad.


    oh well.


    also though in glff 1 day i saw a few players commenting about how they shut the auto loot off so the window pops up then they only loot the emerald shard and leave the rest of contents there. So the next player only gets ore and no shard. I have not seen anyone doing that as of yet but if this is actually happening then the crafting nodes need to be changed so if 1 person removes just 1 item then the node despawns and respawns on its own

 

 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload