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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Warbands, Emerald Shards and other Miscellaneous Hoo-Ha

    Ok So:

    • As a 95 you can't do the Lower warbands (under 90)...they do not come up as a daily rather a one-time thing. Why?
    • The RNG hates me with a passion ~0/3500 nodes. I ain't got time for this I need ~25 shards to get my 2 toons geared.
    • On my scholar, looking for nodes is taking me to rat infested neighborhoods and the induction time farming the nodes (after fighting off 3 or 4 mobs) takes 3 times as long to gather then on my prospector. You can't take 2 steps without bumping into ore or wood and yes I get that they feed more professions but the ultimate goal is a shard and that should be a fair and equal chance for ALL professions.
    • Why on (Middle) Earth would a release of a game this buggy and ill formatted even be allowed to happen? There should be a games council in which a game has to pass certain playable criteria before it is released. Seriously, if you went to the store and bought any game for the same amount of money and it was this broken there would be an outcry. I see and understand why my friends are upset. This in turn upsets me.
    • I hate the My First Computer, Fisher-Price graphics in the battles. It stands to reason that even people who play Farmville would understand a better multiply interactive GUI. With these Big Battle's we need to be on the floor, and that's the innovation - but for the love of "The Halls of Waiting" make a more layered interface so we can access all of the interactives, check status and issue simultaneous instructions. No reason why the timer can't be ticking on repairing a banner WHILE the ladder is being tossed off the wall. This is a cross between a tower defense game and a skirm. Give us the TD interface!! Also a better map overlay..that mini map...you can't see the objectives 1/2 the time. Ideally, a toggle to place useable items on a inset overlay full area game play map which notes the side objectives.
    • The thing that I feel is the most egregious (really, really bad form) is there is NO Set up area except for HD solo/duo. We need a holding area like we have always had to gather people, buff and instruct in assignments.
    • Why does my LM have 54K TM and a 24% crit UNBUFFED this close to release? What are the new stats or are there? If I take into account the diminishing returns she is a full 20K over what she needs to be in TM. This is like pouring a full glass of milk and letting an additional amount spill on the counter "just because".


    The goals have been stripped. There is no challenge. I don't need better gear with the current content, it's fluff for already overpowered toons. I don't need to be frustrated or annoyed either. Considering the hallmark of the game is the Epic Story and even that is poorly implemented, illogically constructed and broken when you add that to my rant you may get a sense of how many of the people I play with feel. Where is the pride in developing? No wonder people feel like they have been "taken".

    I am not going to stop playing, I have people I have known for years here. I am not enjoying my time as I have before, or was potentially expecting to, meaning I will play less. If I am playing less others will be playing less, so when I log on it will go from seeing them daily to several times a week to almost nil - where we send a "Hi how are ya" in the ingame mail. At which point why bother to keep my VIP Status. That's a sad statement.

    We have all asked many questions and voiced many concerns and been given vague, conjectured and unsubstantiated replies "soon" or "that's a possibility". The trust factor has been damaged. Hell, Draigoch still bugs. What makes us believe that the timing issues in the Battles will be sorted? So we play a broken game. We grumble. We threaten and complain. Mostly, we HOPE that the devs will get this sorted expediently.

    On a final note: I feel this is the expansion that should not have happened until it was at least 90% finished.

    The Graphics were done. (1 point)
    The story arc and quest chains are shady, forced and broken. Why GIVE us a quest if we aren't able to do it. The epic quests should have been triggered only when particular quests were completed. (-2 points)
    The big battles are not logically thought through or working correctly. (-5 points)
    The game play and character "feel" is not correct for most of us however this is to be expected with a change and tweaks are to be expected as we go. (-1 points)
    *There is no real instruction and no set up for the battles. (-10 points)
    Emerald shards, the RNG, warbands and farming on a scholar. (-1000 points for cruelty and evil on the part of the game makers)



    *For instance A Big Battle Book posted on the web that states the objectives and the merit involved would be awesome. Something like:

    THE STABLES:

    In this side quest you need to go to the stables located under the the bridge and the main objective will consist of Saving the Horses. If you release a horse you will get -X points. If a soldier/commander falls you get -X points. If a horse is killed you get -X points. To get a platinum reward you must complete the mission with no deaths and all the horses alive.
    Last edited by Airamena; Dec 03 2013 at 04:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    [*]As a 95 you can't do the Lower warbands (under 90)...they do not come up as a daily rather a one-time thing. Why?
    Because you can? The war-bands in eastfold are bugged and not flagged as repeatable, but all others are.

    [*]The RNG hates me with a passion ~0/3500 nodes. I ain't got time for this I need ~25 shards to get my 2 toons geared.
    That's why it's called the RANDOM number generator, and not the GUARANTEED number generator.

    [*]On my scholar, looking for nodes is taking me to rat infested neighborhoods and the induction time farming the nodes (after fighting off 3 or 4 mobs) takes 3 times as long to gather then on my prospector. You can't take 2 steps without bumping into ore or wood and yes I get that they feed more professions but the ultimate goal is a shard and that should be a fair and equal chance for ALL professions.
    This is nothing new, though I should note you can't bump into a humanoid mob without them dumping a pile of scraps and waxes on you.

  3. #3
    It has been known or at least suspected that the rng is fickle and loves some and hates others. you will also find that some people will have better luck with getting some items and bad luck on other items. I assume the shard drop rate is the same as the equivalent in ROR, which I only got 2 of.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
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  4. #4
    I agree with a lot of your points especially the drop rate on the emrald shards. I do understand they dont want everyone to have everything right away but come on... It took me forever just to get 2 of them to make shiny new LI's for my main, not counting the alts im slowly bringing up.

    As far as other things you mentioned.

    Landscape as always is amazing
    Quest: Yeah a couple are bugged, and hopefully will be fixed soon. What is amazing is the ones that are bugged I had no issues with in beta so I don't get it
    Epic battles: Other than a couple sidequest that bug, I think they are awesome. But I do know they are not everyone's cup of tea, so some classic style instances would have been nice.
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    I agree with a lot of your points especially the drop rate on the emrald shards. I do understand they dont want everyone to have everything right away but come on... It took me forever just to get 2 of them to make shiny new LI's for my main, not counting the alts im slowly bringing up.

    As far as other things you mentioned.

    Landscape as always is amazing
    Quest: Yeah a couple are bugged, and hopefully will be fixed soon. What is amazing is the ones that are bugged I had no issues with in beta so I don't get it
    Epic battles: Other than a couple sidequest that bug, I think they are awesome. But I do know they are not everyone's cup of tea, so some classic style instances would have been nice.
    It is just insane that other people can luck into 1/100 or even 1/250 and I'm sitting at 0/3500. It's turning me into what I'm sure a gambling addict feels like..."OMG one more" ..."gotta be in this one" ...and then there is that night I noticed it was 4AM. The RNG should have a tweak way up the chain where at say 2000 nodes you are almost guaranteed 1.

    As far as the quests more then a few are bugged. From the people sitting on Frithald's lap to trying to follow the arrow to get out of the Glittering Caves in the epic to the lack of explanation in the DAY/Night Gelowine portion to the seemingly dropped quest lines because they didn't end in a way that you know you have finished, the npcs could at least shake your hand or offer chocolate for all the running you did. Oh and my pet peeve on that list is if you don't step in a particular area you miss a few quests. If you are killing the Goblins <<<-----there... instead of ----->>> there you missed a bunch of quests. Oh yeah!! The quest icons that don't appear right away and the ones that hide in objects!!

    I too really enjoy the battles. I see untold potential in them and really hope they alter the GUI and get the timing better. Would be great if they had quite a few more side quests and also a Meta deed for completing them all.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    1,118
    I'm not a huge fan of the RNG right now. I've collected 1200+ skarn ore with no shards. I finally just spent tokens with the rep vendor to get one. I'll have to farm warbands or something to get enough tokens for a second one. I have two toons that get all rep and the rest of my characters just fill in group stuff when we need a class so they do the minimum. If I don't start finding shards at some point, and I have to barter for all of them, it's going to take me a couple of months to get my alts geared up.

    I guess that might be how it's supposed to work, but it's a bit frustrating.
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  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    /shrug

    Drop rate for Emerald Shards is rather similar to what it was for Mithril Flakes when Moria launched.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    /shrug

    Drop rate for Emerald Shards is rather similar to what it was for Mithril Flakes when Moria launched.
    naw, i would say the mithril flake drops were easier. could get 1 or 2 mithril flakes an hour when moria launched. I always kept a stack of 5 to 10 flakes on hand as spares while selling the rest for 10g ea.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    /shrug

    Drop rate for Emerald Shards is rather similar to what it was for Mithril Flakes when Moria launched.
    Not even close if I remember correctly. I had found 2 or 3 in the first week. I've got a big, fat zero in this expansion so far.
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  10. #10
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    You'll hate me for this but for shards I'm at 3/275. All of them coming from regular Eorlingas nodes.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/07206000000001896/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    [*]The RNG hates me with a passion ~0/3500 nodes. I ain't got time for this I need ~25 shards to get my 2 toons geared.
    The RNG is correct.
    I got 3 on about 150 nodes and 1 from a (small) warband.
    Some people got 1 on their first node... just a question of luck.
    (and you can buy some at vendors)
    Last edited by Castorix; Dec 04 2013 at 03:53 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    I agree with a lot of your points especially the drop rate on the emrald shards. I do understand they dont want everyone to have everything right away
    People tend to bring this up in any thread complaining about the low drop rate of cracked rhi-helvarch sigils, tarnished crests, and now emerald shards. I don't understand the logic. There's *already* a hard limit on how quickly one can gear up with crafted gear - one item per week per crafter, due to the guild symbol cooldown. If someone is rich enough to pay for six crafters to use their first symbol on him rather than themselves, I genuinely don't see any problem with such a person being able to get a full set of armor in a week (and I bet people have in fact done this, even with the atrocious shard drop rate).

    Making emerald shards incredibly rare is simply adding insult to injury, and does very little to delay people gearing up.

    The obvious and ideal solution would be to reintroduce rare elites. That was the only way to get adamant/beryl shards, and I always had enough of the former and tons of the latter. Not to mention tons of mithril flakes with those dropping from both rare elites and ore nodes (this was when 65 was the cap, sounds like things were more painful at 60 from what you guys are saying). It's no coincidence that the special crafting ingredients people complain about are the ones too high level for rare elites. I expect I'll get most of my emerald shards from the skirmish camp once they show up there (or from the AH once the skirmish camp crashes the AH prices for them), just like I did with tarnished crests.

    My cynical side wonders if the low drop rate and absence from the skirmish camp is intended to coerce people into running the Big Battles. The extra expense (measured in time or gold, as you please) to gear up with crafted jewelry has me considering enduring a few more BBs in the hope of another useful jewelry drop or two; if emerald shards were as common as beryl shards or mithril flakes I'd go with crafted in a heartbeat and never touch the BBs again.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    The RNG is correct.
    I suppose you mean that the RNG is correct for YOU. It does not mean that there is no problem for other people.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    The RNG is correct.
    I got 3 on about 150 nodes and 1 from a (small) warband.
    Some people got 1 on their first node... just a question of luck.
    (and you can buy some at vendors)
    No, what you really mean is that the RNG generated the right random numbers for you. Nothing inherently wrong with an RNG but everyone needs to appreciate that there are winners and losers, invariably a lot more of the latter...

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    /shrug

    Drop rate for Emerald Shards is rather similar to what it was for Mithril Flakes when Moria launched.
    I wonder if you were really around during MoM? As well as from nodes you'll recall that we had opportunities to get flakes from instances (boss drops) as well as 100% drop chance from rare elite spawns. Back in SoA it was the latter that was the most reliable method to getting shards and keeping the AH economy well supplied and at reasonable prices - I wonder where all those hunters are now?

    However, back in MoM flakes were a lesser currency because we had better and more reliable ways to get our characters geared via the instance clusters & raids. It wasn't until book 8 in mid 2009 when the ability to craft reforged 2nd age LIs that the price of flakes jumped.
    <A sig goes here>

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    I suppose you mean that the RNG is correct for YOU. It does not mean that there is no problem for other people.
    No, for everyone even if I had found none.
    The code of the RNG is the same for everyone...

    A RNG is for example in C++ :
    srand(time(NULL))
    followed by rand() % [value]

    If value is 100 to get a number in range [0-100], it can give 100 like it can give 0...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    /shrug

    Drop rate for Emerald Shards is rather similar to what it was for Mithril Flakes when Moria launched.
    Even if that were true, there also rare mobs that dropped them. Something I'd love to see brought back.

  17. #17
    This is no where close to what Mithiral Flake drop rate is. I have 71 of them and given several away. Emerald Shards drop rate is unreal low.
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  18. #18
    Assume the drop rate for emerald shards is 1 in 250 nodes.
    The probability of not getting a shard at any one node is 0.996.
    After 250 nodes it is 37%.
    After 500 nodes it is 13%
    After 1000 nodes it is 2%.


    If the server population has 1000 people looking for shards,
    and they all mine 1000 nodes, then on average there will
    be 20 people who have no shards. (bad luck!). However
    the server will have 4000 shards, and, on average, some
    people will have more than 4 shards each.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    No, for everyone even if I had found none.
    The code of the RNG is the same for everyone...

    A RNG is for example in C++ :
    srand(time(NULL))
    followed by rand() % [value]

    If value is 100 to get a number in range [0-100], it can give 100 like it can give 0...


    It's not about how random numbers are generated, it is about how they are manipulated afterwards and linked to the loot table. There are many topics about the RNG and how it gives different results for different people. Turbine has never wanted to tell how it works, this fact alone tells enough. I'm pretty much convinced myself that userID and/or characterID is involved somewhere in the algorithm.


    Some real-life examples :
    During a weekend with higher sturdy steel key drops, two people perform slayer deeds a whole day long. One finds exactly 0 keys, the other one 10. Luck ? I don't think so.
    Hobbit silver present : one get nothing else than rubbish, the other one gets SEVERAL scrolls of perfect lore in the same time frame (which are supposed to have a drop rate of less than 0,1%). Luck ? I don't think so.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    It is just insane that other people can luck into 1/100 or even 1/250 and I'm sitting at 0/3500.
    I've researched ~100 Scholar nodes and I've got three emerald shards. Kinmate has mined stacks upon stacks of ore and received two. Fully aware of how unfair RNG is, glad that it chose me to single out for once.

  21. #21
    As for the Emeral Shard matter, the main problem is in my opinion a low drop rate, not RNG.
    While RNG may or may not be broken somehow (what we can't check anyway), it is simply a drop rate that frustrates people.
    It's several times lower than tarnished crest and other stuff before.
    And the AH price of Emeral Shard (over 100g on Eldar) tells it all about availability and drop rate. I'm not quite sure, but just after RoR release the AH price of crest was about 15g.

    Maybe it was intended to make it so rare, thus making crafted items and legendary weapons much harder to obtain. I don't like it but it seems I will have to deal with it. Anyway, after dumbing down the difficulty of the game (unfortunately accompanied by gating many skills behind trait trees and making a gameplay less complex and less interesting, see warden or burg changes) obtaininig quickly the best stuff possible is less important.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/20224000000100363/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draithenz1971 View Post
    This is no where close to what Mithiral Flake drop rate is. I have 71 of them and given several away. Emerald Shards drop rate is unreal low.
    Flakes drop like flies these days. got several hundred gathering dust.
    But at moria launch, they were a "bit" more rare.

  23. #23
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    Jun 2011
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    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerzol View Post
    It's several times lower than tarnished crest and other stuff before.
    And the AH price of Emeral Shard (over 100g on Eldar) tells it all about availability and drop rate. I'm not quite sure, but just after RoR release the AH price of crest was about 15g.
    Rate seems low now. First few days of HD, i already had 5 of them. And now, several days of farming ore and wood, not a single one, except one from a silver warband box.

    Price has to do something with the fact, that ppl realized that they cannot cash in with Flawed Symbol as much as they had hoped.. since everyone gets them free, one per alt. So gotta try and make cash on the shard now.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    The RNG is certainly "streaky" and not following regular random number patterns. With a very low droprate the chance of having multiple successes in a row/very short timeframe should be very close to zero, yet I've seen it happening all the time since RoI (and didn't really play before). Wether the entropy source is bad, there are additional seed-values or other mechanics involved or the calls are screwed up by threading issues we can only speculate.
    And whoever claims the RNG is working correctly: You can never proof the absence of bugs, only their existance (short of complete formal verification, but that's more of an academic usecase).
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    It's not about how random numbers are generated, it is about how they are manipulated afterwards and linked to the loot table. There are many topics about the RNG and how it gives different results for different people. Turbine has never wanted to tell how it works, this fact alone tells enough. I'm pretty much convinced myself that userID and/or characterID is involved somewhere in the algorithm.


    Some real-life examples :
    During a weekend with higher sturdy steel key drops, two people perform slayer deeds a whole day long. One finds exactly 0 keys, the other one 10. Luck ? I don't think so.
    Hobbit silver present : one get nothing else than rubbish, the other one gets SEVERAL scrolls of perfect lore in the same time frame (which are supposed to have a drop rate of less than 0,1%). Luck ? I don't think so.
    wow, only 19 posts to get to the conspiracy theory. took longer than i expected.

    everyone has dry spells. i've gone several days/weeks without a key drop. then in a 2 hour play session i get 3 dropped from mobs, not even during a higher drop rate weekend.

 

 
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