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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    But this is the snag. Someone soloing is probably not going to get to that rank. 60 points for rank 3, 80 for rank 4.
    Doing all side quests solo and getting silver in each plus silver in main quests (only first time counts) you get 60 points. But getting silver is a stretch solo, much less on every side quest, especially while having everything ranked so low. Your typical player is going to give up before they get to this point.

    So the first big problem I see here is that you really do need multiple people to start getting better at BB, even if it's just a duo. This is very very different from skirmishes where you could build a decent soldier while soloing, then have it good enough to join a skirmish group. The second problem is that the BB traits tree is very annoying; each new rank in a trait is more expensive then the last, not at all like the class or mounted combat trees; plus you're forced to again take completely unwanted traits just so you can reach deeper into the tree to get something useful. It really does feel designed to frustrate and annoy the solo or casual player.
    I have 83 points. I got 80 of them solo.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000b3969/01007/signature.png]Minarfin[/charsig]

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    But this is the snag. Someone soloing is probably not going to get to that rank. 60 points for rank 3, 80 for rank 4.
    Doing all side quests solo and getting silver in each plus silver in main quests (only first time counts) you get 60 points. But getting silver is a stretch solo, much less on every side quest, especially while having everything ranked so low. Your typical player is going to give up before they get to this point.

    So the first big problem I see here is that you really do need multiple people to start getting better at BB, even if it's just a duo. This is very very different from skirmishes where you could build a decent soldier while soloing, then have it good enough to join a skirmish group. The second problem is that the BB traits tree is very annoying; each new rank in a trait is more expensive then the last, not at all like the class or mounted combat trees; plus you're forced to again take completely unwanted traits just so you can reach deeper into the tree to get something useful. It really does feel designed to frustrate and annoy the solo or casual player.
    I often get bronze and silver for the first times when I was still not used to the objective and how to work it out. But now I can easily get silver, and need to react more quickly for gold. Platinum will certainly a challenge when solo, but if you know what to do and have enough promotion points, you can still get it.

    Btw, I get 50 out of 57 points from soloing. It is not hard to rank up, just that you need patience in order to get better.
    [I]"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends"[/I] - [B]Gandalf[/B]

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    I have 83 points. I got 80 of them solo.
    Good for you. Now what about the average player? I only have 60 and a hefty chunk came from being duo (where I could get platinum). Solo I do poorly and I thought I knew a lot of good tricks.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    ^Rune-Keeper, Minstrel, Warden can also do the same. Guardian and Champion still have bow to aid the fight. Lore-master and Captain have their pets. Not sure about Burglar
    Under-use, not useless.
    Its all about classes. For hunter and RK, its easier (but maybe isnt less boring) to solo rank up, but think about burg, or guard, or captain, or warden. Its a nightmare and many people quit before 30 points.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Btw, I get 50 out of 57 points from soloing. It is not hard to rank up, just that you need patience in order to get better.
    Who's going to have that much patience though? What about the players who aren't that good who just can't advance? With skirmishes they could be effective even without a soldier. With epic battles those players are going to be slapped in the face every time they try. Yes, SOME players are better than others, they'll succeed on stuff first try there, and any trait points they get is just a pure bonus for them. But for many players I suspect they'll flail until they can get points, but they won't be able to get points while they're flailing.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    So the first big problem I see here is that you really do need multiple people to start getting better at BB, even if it's just a duo. This is very very different from skirmishes where you could build a decent soldier while soloing, then have it good enough to join a skirmish group.
    That's kind of the point of this guide. It's intended to run through solo strat to help pick up enough points to really start doing things well. Really it's not too hard to get enough points to level up even as a casual player. I was able to get to R3 just with solos, and I'm no where near hardcore. Once you've leveled up a bit, it makes it even easier to run back and start advancing your bronze/silver to gold/plat (if you don't already have them from a first run through).

    While a lot of what we do is solo, I'm on a less populated server and finding pick up groups for 3 & 6 man still isn't all that hard. When you couple that with the fact that it's easy to get a bunch more points in just 1 or 2 runs, getting points really isn't a huge deal.
    Last edited by Gedrevn; Dec 05 2013 at 11:51 AM.
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  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Who's going to have that much patience though? What about the players who aren't that good who just can't advance? With skirmishes they could be effective even without a soldier. With epic battles those players are going to be slapped in the face every time they try. Yes, SOME players are better than others, they'll succeed on stuff first try there, and any trait points they get is just a pure bonus for them. But for many players I suspect they'll flail until they can get points, but they won't be able to get points while they're flailing.
    Hey getting the early points is a walk in the park compared to later on, I swear if I get Secure the Culvert - Defilers on the wall one more time in the deeping wall I'm going to scream. Bollocking up a quest you've tried to get for a week is extremely frustrating. First time through you get points from everything, I think I got 40 from doing them for the epic, although I'm sure that will be on the upper end thanks to ranged, induction-less AOE DPS.

    A tip I have for getting your first few ranks (and getting ranks in general) is that you can predict some side-quests based on the first minute or so of the battle, so if you want a specific quest its worth quiting and restarting the instance.

    Helm's Dike is if they attack the Eastern end of the dike first, you get the
    Protect the Horses and Guarding the Watchtower quests,

    whereas the west end is A Stone Obstruction and The Statue of Helm Hammerhand.

    Deeping Coomb is Searching the Debris and Prepare to Fall Back if they head for the glittering caves first, and A Pillage Denied and Defilers in the Water if the head for the Hornburg.

    Glittering Caves is always Stalactites Over the Bridge followed by Spider Assault solo (western Islands first), but Cave in and Bombs and Bats once they fix it and you can start by going to the Eastern Tunnels.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  8. #33
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    Any advice on doing defilers in the water in deepening coomb. I never seem to get time to get to the defilers when the quest is announced before dark waters have spawned even using a mount. They just seem to spawn too fast and this seems pretty impossible to stop a dark water from escaping to get platinium on solo?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiritier View Post
    Under-use, not useless.
    Its all about classes. For hunter and RK, its easier (but maybe isnt less boring) to solo rank up, but think about burg, or guard, or captain, or warden. Its a nightmare and many people quit before 30 points.
    Guardian is easy to get plat on many side quests since we have 3 skills, even while in DPS stance to force important targets to attack us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurhinius View Post
    Any advice on doing defilers in the water in deepening coomb. I never seem to get time to get to the defilers when the quest is announced before dark waters have spawned even using a mount. They just seem to spawn too fast and this seems pretty impossible to stop a dark water from escaping to get platinium on solo?
    I think this is one of those that you either have to do Duo for platinum, or settle for a Silver/Gold reward solo.

    But as was stated above, it seems like if the battle begins with the enemy waves attacking the Hornburg (the area where the map and crates are), then that side quest tends to pop up, so you can be in the area by the time it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Good for you. Now what about the average player? I only have 60 and a hefty chunk came from being duo (where I could get platinum). Solo I do poorly and I thought I knew a lot of good tricks.
    That's what this thread is for I think.
    Last edited by Golledhel; Dec 05 2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    That's kind of the point of this guide. It's intended to run through solo strat to help pick up enough points to really start doing things well. Really it's not too hard to get enough points to level up even as a casual player.
    I'm doing it wrong then. I think I have 4 iron medals on helm's dike solo and only 1 bronze. I found some tricks but overall they don't help too much. If I work on side quests the main quest sometimes get overwhelmed (I can see soldiers falling fast on the main quest objectives). The attack at the center is the worst, the time most likely to have everything fall apart; it's when I go from being excited that I'm finally getting silver solo to being disappointed to get another iron medal.

    It's all auto scaled - that means my weapon is being upgraded to something similar to level 95. Or is this not working? Maybe my problem is that my damage is far too low with a second age level 85 weapon not being scaled up to be like 95 second age? (I may not hit 95 for a couple more days)

    As for the guide itself, some stuff seems confusing.

    Helm's Dike:
    - great to see some maps there now!
    - holy aurochs... The watchtower is way to the west? That explains it, I was defending this tower near the center which is being attacked by dunlendings during that side quest. What is that tower near location 5 then? It is targetable for repairs and will have a rohirrim commander emerge from it eventually. I was sure this is where the side quest marker was pointing.
    - what happens if horses are released early? Ie, you have an option to release ALL of them before the fight even starts.
    - what do you do if no soldier is helping out, and your damage is too low to make a difference? Ie, those guys bringing powder to the gate, I can not kill them in time before they drop powder, and I can not disarm a medium or large powder in time. (my only guess is that this is what Vanguard is intended for, or you use forced taunts, neither of which helps if you're wrong class or don't have a third trait line)
    - stone obstruction is hit or miss; sometimes easy, sometimes you waste precious time because some attackers are coming. So either complete it fast for good side quest score while losing soldiers, or do it slower and safer but with a lower score... I don't bother with all three archers anymore, the one is clumsy to reach and is very likely to be killed early.
    - trolls at the statue can be easy or hard; it's always when main quest soldiers start dying, because if I go to help them there is almost surely to be a new troll showing up. I've even seen a pair attacking the statue without any soldiers targeting them. Although this seems the easiest side quest to get a high score on even without ranking up, as long as you dont mind losing soldiers in main quest.
    - For flames at the gate; enemies can destroy your catapult early on before this quest starts. There seem to be some enemies who always make a beeline to where you set it up, pause a second or two, then return to normal control point. These are slow to kill when no defenders are helping. Given that there are no defenders in that location it makes setting up catapult in advance seem risky, and there's not enough time when side quest starts to build the catapult. How do people manage this?
    - For flames at the gate, what is "resupply archers"? This is baffling to me, as only one time only did I see some arrows on the ground, they were difficult to target and use, and appeared to do nothing, and no arrows were near other archers. There seemed to be nothing to do up top at all, since catapult was already destroyed and nothing attacked those archers.
    - For flames at the gate, once gate has several fires on it, it will take damage faster than you can extinguish or repair. You can not let this slide.

    Deeping Wall:
    - large shot in catapult will not travel far enough to reach the enemy catapults!
    - main quest essentially requires you to use catapult. Solo-only without being ranked up this is very difficult; you crank and aim too slowly. As soon as first wave is over run up and recrank the think to get ready (2 enemy catapults in second wave).
    - Breaching hornburg seems ok; defenders actually defend. Though what is the point of healing wounded soldiers? Loss of merit if they die?
    - Defilers is very hectic. They can climb over wall from anyway and you can't personally attack them all, meanwhile defenders may ignore them as there are too many other enemies they're dealing with.

    Hornburg:
    - Seige ladders I lost outright. I was focusing on those invisible things to be able to push ladders back. Was surprised how long it took to destroy them. I lost when I stopped to kill a goblin that was about to destroy catapult, and then a second ladder came up before I could complete it.
    - I lost banners here while off on side quests. Those things are flimsy and slow to repair/heal (even doing both at same time). Healed up to full the enemies will destroy them quickly.
    - Defenders seemed clueless even more so than other battles. They'll ignore the goblins burning down banners, and ignore orc commanders going after rohirrim commanders. Maybe I need to issue priority while traited for officer, but that requires higher rank and swapping roles in is clumsy and I suspect it screws up your cooldowns. Being able to put down traps feels more useful than giving priorities.

    While a lot of what we do is solo, I'm on a less populated server and finding pick up groups for 3 & 6 man still isn't all that hard.
    I agree there. However there are players that will want to only do this solo because they find it difficult to find others to group with; they don't like grouping, they don't trust anyone who isn't in the kin, don't like strangers, etc. My point was that pure-solo was going to be very difficult to manage.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    Guardian is easy to get plat on many side quests since we have 3 skills, even while in DPS stance to force important targets to attack us.
    Yep, I duoed with guardian and things were immensely easier than some other duos and he was able to force aggro on trolls and things like that.
    I think when I bring my guardian through I'll have it do Vanguard so that I'll be doing force taunts plus burning things down.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Helm's Dike:
    - great to see some maps there now!
    - holy aurochs... The watchtower is way to the west? That explains it, I was defending this tower near the center which is being attacked by dunlendings during that side quest. What is that tower near location 5 then? It is targetable for repairs and will have a rohirrim commander emerge from it eventually. I was sure this is where the side quest marker was pointing.
    Agreed, I did not know about that tower marked on the map (3). If I ever do Helms Dike again and get this side quest, I'll try defending the one way out west there...

    - what do you do if no soldier is helping out, and your damage is too low to make a difference? Ie, those guys bringing powder to the gate, I can not kill them in time before they drop powder, and I can not disarm a medium or large powder in time. (my only guess is that this is what Vanguard is intended for, or you use forced taunts, neither of which helps if you're wrong class or don't have a third trait line)
    The right class helps for doing this easily - yellow champ can shing-shing them down before they drop their bombs. For other classes, I suspect higher engineer rank and placing tripwire traps in just the right spot would be key. Unless they ignore those like they ignore cc. Forced taunts would be worth a try for classes that have them, though I wouldn't bet on them working... Of course the biggest problem with this one is that the instance will usually end before the quest can finish, sometimes ending just as this quest *starts*!

    Deeping Wall:
    - large shot in catapult will not travel far enough to reach the enemy catapults!
    - main quest essentially requires you to use catapult. Solo-only without being ranked up this is very difficult; you crank and aim too slowly. As soon as first wave is over run up and recrank the think to get ready (2 enemy catapults in second wave).
    Sure it does. Never had any range problem - max range is a direct hit on the enemy catapult. The catapult was not the part that gave me problems in this battle, and I had a whole five promotion points so it wasn't ranking up that did it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn
    While a lot of what we do is solo, I'm on a less populated server and finding pick up groups for 3 & 6 man still isn't all that hard.
    Good for you. Let me guess, you play at or near peak times on that server? I'm three hours off-peak on a dead server and don't see any groups for anything. Not that I think the Big Battles are worth the bother; if by some chance a group exists, why waste it on this nonsense rather than looking for armor drops etc. in a real instance?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Yep, I duoed with guardian and things were immensely easier than some other duos and he was able to force aggro on trolls and things like that.
    I think when I bring my guardian through I'll have it do Vanguard so that I'll be doing force taunts plus burning things down.
    Vanguard is bad regardless of class. They are based on getting killing blows which is very hard. Being a guardian won't make that any easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Helm's Dike:
    - great to see some maps there now!
    - holy aurochs... The watchtower is way to the west? That explains it, I was defending this tower near the center which is being attacked by dunlendings during that side quest. What is that tower near location 5 then? It is targetable for repairs and will have a rohirrim commander emerge from it eventually. I was sure this is where the side quest marker was pointing.
    - what happens if horses are released early? Ie, you have an option to release ALL of them before the fight even starts.
    - what do you do if no soldier is helping out, and your damage is too low to make a difference? Ie, those guys bringing powder to the gate, I can not kill them in time before they drop powder, and I can not disarm a medium or large powder in time. (my only guess is that this is what Vanguard is intended for, or you use forced taunts, neither of which helps if you're wrong class or don't have a third trait line)
    - stone obstruction is hit or miss; sometimes easy, sometimes you waste precious time because some attackers are coming. So either complete it fast for good side quest score while losing soldiers, or do it slower and safer but with a lower score... I don't bother with all three archers anymore, the one is clumsy to reach and is very likely to be killed early.
    - trolls at the statue can be easy or hard; it's always when main quest soldiers start dying, because if I go to help them there is almost surely to be a new troll showing up. I've even seen a pair attacking the statue without any soldiers targeting them. Although this seems the easiest side quest to get a high score on even without ranking up, as long as you dont mind losing soldiers in main quest.
    - For flames at the gate; enemies can destroy your catapult early on before this quest starts. There seem to be some enemies who always make a beeline to where you set it up, pause a second or two, then return to normal control point. These are slow to kill when no defenders are helping. Given that there are no defenders in that location it makes setting up catapult in advance seem risky, and there's not enough time when side quest starts to build the catapult. How do people manage this?
    - For flames at the gate, what is "resupply archers"? This is baffling to me, as only one time only did I see some arrows on the ground, they were difficult to target and use, and appeared to do nothing, and no arrows were near other archers. There seemed to be nothing to do up top at all, since catapult was already destroyed and nothing attacked those archers.
    - For flames at the gate, once gate has several fires on it, it will take damage faster than you can extinguish or repair. You can not let this slide.
    I have a platinum on all of Helm's Dike's side quests except the Powder one, and today finally got a platinum in the main quest. All solo. What class are you? This will obviously have a huge impact.

    -The watchtower, afaik, is indeed the tower that does get attacked by the dunlending. I think it's wrongly marked in the map in the opening post.
    -Each time a wave of attackers is defeated for the Horses, the green objective goes up. It goes up based on the number of horses. The more horses, the more it goes up. By releasing the horses it goes up slower, which keeps you from getting platinum. Though it saves the horse from being killed so you won't lose merit. You just won't gain as much merit as you could. So if a horse is about to die, release it. This is a quest where high DPS, crowd control, or force taunts will help. Also you should set the NPCs to 2-handed stance since they don't get attacked.
    -Powder at the gate seems to require a 2nd person to get a good score. The NPCs are #### (even in 2H stance), the sappers seem to ignore tripwires until they reach the barricades, and later on they come way too fast for just 1 person. I even tried setting up a catapult to take out 8k HP from them before they even get to the barricades and the NPCs still struggle to kill them in time. I'm now trying with a well-paced ballista which will 1-shot them, but I made some mistakes and ended up still only getting bronze. Most of the time if I get this quest I just ignore it and cry.
    -Stone Obstruction you should be able to get a Platinum on it. Run between the 3 Archers. Ignore everything else. Yes, you will lose NPCs in the western side which will hurt your main quest. But getting platinum once in Stone Obstruction results in an easy 4 promotion points which go a long way towards getting you to the next rank. Screw the main quest if you haven't gotten a platinum on this side quest yet.
    -Statue is the 2nd quest I don't really like getting. I can get platinum on it every time since as a Guardian I can force taunt the trolls and the statue will never get damaged. But the quest still usually results in one or 2 dead soldiers. Just do your best to CC/DPS those trolls down and ignore everything else. Set the NPCs guarding the statue to 2H stance before you talk to Gamling to start the instance. Try to go for a platinum on it at least once for the promotion points, whatever the cost.
    -Flames at the gate you actually do have time to set up your catapult after the quest starts. Also I think if you set it up around where the map table is it might be safe from any enemies that get past the dumb NPCs. Though you'll probably need to crank twice. For the Arrows, you pick them up. After a while the archers will stop shooting and yell something like they're ready for new orders. Stand next to the archer with the arrows and they should begin shooting again.


    Getting the best medal you can in the side quests should be your top priority. If you cannot get good scores in your side quest then you cannot get good scores in your main quest. Once you can get consistently good scores in the side quests you should try to figure out how to do good in them, while still keeping the main quest from failing.

    Being able to swap between Engineer and Officer is important solo. Yes, it is clumsy. But you should still do it. And no, it doesn't mess up with the cooldowns.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    Sure it does. Never had any range problem - max range is a direct hit on the enemy catapult.
    With the heavy shell? I cranked that to max and the circle was short of the enemy catapult and did no damage when I shot it. Even the description hints that it won't go as far.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    What class are you? This will obviously have a huge impact.
    Captain with red traits. And I set my archer herald on aggressive mode. Not sure how that helps as it's relatively low damage but at least it's doing something while I'm trying to push over ladders. Despite doing ridiculous damage on landscape even with level 85 weapon it feels that I'm not that great with it in BB. Some of that is just the running around to melee, never getting a chance to use a skill rotation, etc. But I also wonder if the level 85 weapon doesn't auto-level up with me very well.

    I've gotten platinum on most of helm's dike stuff, because I was with duo. But no points for flames at gate or watchtower, and only gold on horses so far (I think that was duo).

    The thing is, with a duo many of the hard ones become pretty easy. Especially if you group with someone with useful class abilities (force taunts) or who has ranked up things. It means you can monitor both control points at the same time, one person on catapult while you drop rocks or push off ladders, etc. I highly recommend it if it can be done.

    -Statue is the 2nd quest I don't really like getting. I can get platinum on it every time since as a Guardian I can force taunt the trolls and the statue will never get damaged.
    Trouble with me on it sometimes is that those trolls go up the steep edge next to the wood fence and it's too steep for me to follow; sometimes trolls get stuck briefly there. So I'm forced to go around the obstacles on the ground which is slow. Ranged classes wouldn't find that problem.

    Other questions are: where is the best place to put points? For engineer I added things to increase contribution (except build) and then a couple ranks in various (trigger count on trip trap was very handy). For officer I was trying to focus on heal/haste but it seems to want me to put points in things that I'm dubious about for solo use (banner cooldown, corruption removal cooldown, etc). Discouraged to see that there are no more cooldown improvements for heals left.

  16. #41
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    For Engineer I prioritize Crank Speed > Load Speed > Disable/Dismantle.

    Other points are placed in what requires the least amount to get to what I need.

    Cranking is most of what you do, so that's golden. Loading is probably the 2nd thing you do most. Disable/Dismantle helps with kicking ladders.



    For Officer I max Heal Cooldown, then beeline for Heal Potency. The rest of the points go into Haste Cooldown and Haste strength with a few stray points in other stuff cause you have to. I believe putting a point in Target Cooldown gives you that Target skill, which can be nice. Though I usually only switch to Officer when I need to assign priority/heal.
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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    For Engineer I prioritize Crank Speed > Load Speed > Disable/Dismantle.

    Other points are placed in what requires the least amount to get to what I need.

    Cranking is most of what you do, so that's golden. Loading is probably the 2nd thing you do most. Disable/Dismantle helps with kicking ladders.
    I prioritize disable/dismantle as I do more of that than siege weapons: ladders, grappling hooks, powder kegs, traps in GC, shaman totems on the wall etc. Crank speed is nice, load speed is not a priority since it doesn't take nearly as long per shot as cranking.

    I use tripwire traps a lot so I put points in -trap cooldown and +number of activations. I'm not sure that buffing the damage of traps or the duration of the tripwire stun is a good spend of points. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    For Officer I max Heal Cooldown, then beeline for Heal Potency. The rest of the points go into Haste Cooldown and Haste strength with a few stray points in other stuff cause you have to. I believe putting a point in Target Cooldown gives you that Target skill, which can be nice. Though I usually only switch to Officer when I need to assign priority/heal.
    Pretty much this. From memory my heals do ~3.7k initially and around 1.3k each tick thereafter for 7(?) ticks. Keeping your soldiers topped up makes a huge difference.

    I haven't put much point in banner skills since they only help yourself in solo runs and only if you are *really* good at fast trait switching, and then only for engineer.
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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    With the heavy shell? I cranked that to max and the circle was short of the enemy catapult and did no damage when I shot it. Even the description hints that it won't go as far.
    Yep same. I always load regular shot but put demoralizing powder on it as I often hit adjacent units while they are marching.

    I think at higher ranks you can upgrade the catapult for greater range but I only have time for one upgrade before battle starts and I would prioritize crank speed.
    Last edited by q945; Dec 06 2013 at 04:06 AM.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    With the heavy shell? I cranked that to max and the circle was short of the enemy catapult and did no damage when I shot it. Even the description hints that it won't go as far.
    No idea. My characters were both rank zero when they tried it (by definition, the second battle a character does, so very few points to work with). If there are fancy additional loading options one gets at higher ranks I don't know about them. Basic loading works just fine for counterbattery fire though. Two hits = dead catapult, no problem. Sounds like whatever ammo that is that's unlocked by higher rank is counterproductive in this scenario. /shrug

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    No idea. My characters were both rank zero when they tried it (by definition, the second battle a character does, so very few points to work with). If there are fancy additional loading options one gets at higher ranks I don't know about them. Basic loading works just fine for counterbattery fire though. Two hits = dead catapult, no problem. Sounds like whatever ammo that is that's unlocked by higher rank is counterproductive in this scenario. /shrug
    Like the name has implied, Heavy Shell is... heavy, so it cannot fly as far as Regular Shell. The only way for a Heavy Shell to reach enemy's catapults is upgrading the range of your catapult, which seems to be a rank 5 or 6 engineer jobs. But when you're at rank 3 and above, you would just want to load wider-range shell like Grapeshot type
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golledhel View Post
    I believe putting a point in Target Cooldown gives you that Target skill, which can be nice.
    Hmm... That's a rank 4 ability though, even though the traits for it show up earlier. So I have heal/haste maxed out with 75 points, but the next traits that seem useful are down a bit, so I may put points in there too just to move things up.

    So, Arrow Volley Armour Strength. when is this order useful? Does it apply to archer damage, or are there times when there are specific arrow volleys?

    Actually, it seems I can put points elsewhere for my officer build, ie, put enough in low level engineer until I can get the damage/armor cooldowns. Not sure if that's useful except to get 5 ranks cheaply.

  22. #47
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    For any side quest that is about enemies trying to destroy supplies/doors/engines/etc, it can be very helpful to set your Rohirrim Soldiers to two-handed stance (granted you have high enough commander spec), which helps them kill things faster. Two-handed stance increases DPS, but decreases armour, so this is only recommended for soldiers who are exclusive to the active side-quest (For example: The Statue of Helm Hammerhand, Powder at the gate, Breaching the Hornburg, Securing the culvert....). For quests who affect both regular soldiers and quest-exclusive ones, only set the ones exclusive to the quest to two-handed (e.g. Statue of Helm Hammerhand, the commander standing in from of the statue).

    Here's a list of all quests I use two-handed stance for: (both solo/duo and 3/6-man versions)

    Helm's Dike: The Statue Of Helm Hammerhand, Powder At The Gate, Guarding The Watchtower, Protect The Horses
    The Deeping-Wall: Securing The Culvert, Breaching The Hornburg, Vandals In The Tower
    The Deeping-Coomb: A Pillage Denied, Prepare To Fall Back
    Glittering Caves: Bombs And Bats, Stalactites Over The Bridge, Spider Assault, Civilian Defense
    The Hornburg: Bringing Down The Siege Ladders, Repair The Portcullis, Protecting The Gatehouse, Winches In The Windows

    In most of these quests, the Rohirrim soldiers will not be attacked at all, so the more DPS they can contribute, the better.
    Last edited by Deorwyn; Dec 06 2013 at 09:25 AM.

  23. #48
    @Lohi - Honestly, from what you've said so far, if you're having that much trouble it sounds like for some reason your DPS needs a boost. Definitely make sure you upgrade to a decent 86+ legendary. The damage increase from those weapons is miles ahead of 85's and lower. For Legacies and Traits, focus on anything that adds straight damage or AoE damage, or lowers your cooldowns. Bleeds are ok, but will never have a chance to burst DPS, which is what you need. I'm not sure where Captains are on their Herald Pets vs. banners. If you feel like your pet is doing ok (for example, if he can solo a goblin sapper while you kill something else, awesome) But if the banner is just going to make you more effective killing what needs to be killed, that might be a better option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    - holy aurochs... The watchtower is way to the west? That explains it, I was defending this tower near the center which is being attacked by dunlendings during that side quest. What is that tower near location 5 then? It is targetable for repairs and will have a rohirrim commander emerge from it eventually. I was sure this is where the side quest marker was pointing.
    Sorry, I think I had this listed in the wrong location. It should be correctly updated on the maps. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the correction.

    The tower can be repaired, but for the most part it's not worth it, you're way better off spending your time trying to make sure it doesn't get hit.

    what happens if horses are released early? Ie, you have an option to release ALL of them before the fight even starts.
    You wouldn't ever do this. Releasing the horses just gives you less merit loss, for example: Horse Killed = -50 merit, Horse Released = -40 merit. Ostensibly it's to give you an option if you're really getting your butt kicked but it's pretty easy to complete without having the horses take almost any damage.

    what do you do if no soldier is helping out, and your damage is too low to make a difference? Ie, those guys bringing powder to the gate, I can not kill them in time before they drop powder, and I can not disarm a medium or large powder in time. (my only guess is that this is what Vanguard is intended for, or you use forced taunts, neither of which helps if you're wrong class or don't have a third trait line)
    If your DPS is really that low, that's probably what's causing you so many problems. Also Vanguard is really awful as a Trait Line, it's very difficult to get killing blows (especially with lower DPS) and even when you get them, the wave aspect of how the enemies spawn mean you don't actually get to take advantage of your skills. For new players Engineer is a much better starting option.

    stone obstruction is hit or miss; sometimes easy, sometimes you waste precious time because some attackers are coming. So either complete it fast for good side quest score while losing soldiers, or do it slower and safer but with a lower score... I don't bother with all three archers anymore, the one is clumsy to reach and is very likely to be killed early.
    Go Rank 1 engineer and set up barricades on the west side, then just run a rotation between the 3 archers, stopping to kill any Dunlendings that make it through. Each time you hit the Archer on the West side, stop at the Rohirrim Commander and refresh Heal/Speed/Damage/Shield.

    trolls at the statue can be easy or hard; it's always when main quest soldiers start dying, because if I go to help them there is almost surely to be a new troll showing up. I've even seen a pair attacking the statue without any soldiers targeting them. Although this seems the easiest side quest to get a high score on even without ranking up, as long as you dont mind losing soldiers in main quest.
    Check the tips in that section for strategy. Other than that, this quest is just DPS.

    For flames at the gate, what is "resupply archers"? This is baffling to me, as only one time only did I see some arrows on the ground, they were difficult to target and use, and appeared to do nothing, and no arrows were near other archers. There seemed to be nothing to do up top at all, since catapult was already destroyed and nothing attacked those archers.
    Those arrows on the ground that are difficult to target and use are what you need to use to resupply the archers. Once you click on them and interact, you'll see an arrow buff appear in your buff window. This stays up until you use the arrows to resupply one of the archers. You can't resupply an archer who is currently firing (obo 30 seconds) but once they're idle, you just run up to them and they'll give you a text cue and start animating again.

    For flames at the gate, once gate has several fires on it, it will take damage faster than you can extinguish or repair. You can not let this slide.
    You can extinguish the gate at a rate of about 2-3 per recast depending on your Engineer rank/points. Don't let it slide, but you have to get a hang for when you go up or down and being quick about repairing vs rearming.

    large shot in catapult will not travel far enough to reach the enemy catapults
    Max crank and aim your catapult right when you get in the instance. If a heavy shell won't reach (I thought it did) just use a normal shell, which does for sure.

    main quest essentially requires you to use catapult. Solo-only without being ranked up this is very difficult; you crank and aim too slowly. As soon as first wave is over run up and recrank the think to get ready (2 enemy catapults in second wave).
    Main quest absolutely requires you to use the catapult. If you do everything right, even WITHOUT any points in engineer, you can kill the enemy catapult before it's able to fire 2 shots. In both cases, pre-aim and crank your catapult while the enemies are moving up. At rank 0, 2 shots from yours will kill an enemy catapult and with the 2 catapults, you have more than enough time to crank while the 2nd one is moving up after the 1st one dies.

    Also make sure you repair the catapult early on, you have enough time to get it back up and crank before the first enemy catapult arrives, and then it's able to take at least 2 direct hits, which almost never happens.

    Breaching hornburg seems ok; defenders actually defend. Though what is the point of healing wounded soldiers? Loss of merit if they die?
    Haven't needed to heal them. Adds a bit of merit maybe, I'll have to look again, but IIRC I have plat here and haven't bothered to heal them at all.

    Defilers is very hectic. They can climb over wall from anyway and you can't personally attack them all, meanwhile defenders may ignore them as there are too many other enemies they're dealing with.
    This one is all about concentration. You can personally attack them, but like any other mob, they're not targettable until after they've come across the wall. You just have to be super vigilant to make sure you pick up the defilers and shamans that your NPC's miss.

    Seige ladders I lost outright. I was focusing on those invisible things to be able to push ladders back. Was surprised how long it took to destroy them. I lost when I stopped to kill a goblin that was about to destroy catapult, and then a second ladder came up before I could complete it.
    Seems like you're having other problems here. The hooks are super visible, so not sure why they don't show up for you. You should be able to see them airborne and landing on the wall, and you can target them while they're still animating. The other half of this just sounds again like a DPS problem.

    I lost banners here while off on side quests. Those things are flimsy and slow to repair/heal (even doing both at same time). Healed up to full the enemies will destroy them quickly.
    There's 3 main banners that get destroyed, the ones in front and the one on the east side stairs. Just focus on keeping those up. Ranks in Engineer + heal are more than enough to reasonably quickly keep them at a high enough level to stay alive.

    Defenders seemed clueless even more so than other battles. They'll ignore the goblins burning down banners, and ignore orc commanders going after rohirrim commanders. Maybe I need to issue priority while traited for officer, but that requires higher rank and swapping roles in is clumsy and I suspect it screws up your cooldowns. Being able to put down traps feels more useful than giving priorities.
    NPCs in all instances are coded to ignore goblins for other targets unless given the priority. That's why the banners tend to go down. You either need to change priority to save banners, heal the banners, or focus them down yourself.

    Trouble with me on it sometimes is that those trolls go up the steep edge next to the wood fence and it's too steep for me to follow; sometimes trolls get stuck briefly there. So I'm forced to go around the obstacles on the ground which is slow. Ranged classes wouldn't find that problem.
    Don't stand in the entrance ramp unless you're in a duo, you'll spend too much time chasing things down. Stay up by the statue and range things down to screw up their pathing, then burn them down melee as they get close.

    I use tripwire traps a lot so I put points in -trap cooldown and +number of activations. I'm not sure that buffing the damage of traps or the duration of the tripwire stun is a good spend of points. YMMV.
    I started out putting a lot of points into Crank/Load/Dismantle, and while that's helpful and a good slot for extra points, honestly putting points into Tripwire upgrades WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better. Nothing really compares to being able to set down 3 trap fields that stay up with upgraded trigger count, and increased stun duration. It saves objectives hard and gives you time to do other things.
    Last edited by Gedrevn; Dec 06 2013 at 11:04 AM.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by q945 View Post
    I prioritize disable/dismantle as I do more of that than siege weapons: ladders, grappling hooks, powder kegs, traps in GC, shaman totems on the wall etc. Crank speed is nice, load speed is not a priority since it doesn't take nearly as long per shot as cranking.
    Disable/Dismatle doesn't affect grappling hooks, and afaik it doesn't affect powder kegs either. You need Disarm for those.

    Load speed is pretty good in the wall to use the drop rocks as those are the only things that can kill Commanders before they get up on the wall. The middle one is particularly deadly.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    @Lohi - Honestly, from what you've said so far, if you're having that much trouble it sounds like for some reason your DPS needs a boost. Definitely make sure you upgrade to a decent 86+ legendary.
    I'll try, but I'm working through quests. I hit 95 but am still on level 91 quests so not getting a lot of item drops yet. I don't normally bother upgrading weapons until I find one at cap.

    I've got basically all red captain traits maxed out, plus some in blue that add damage. it's probably just poor weapon, and it may be scaling less and less as I go up in level too.

    Maybe on later characters I'll wait to start these until 95. I started early thinking it would take more time to start earning decent rewards (and to be honest the teal level 85 rewards were large upgrades over my existing teal jewelry).

    I'm not sure where Captains are on their Herald Pets vs. banners.
    Can have both simultaneously now :-)

    Stay up by the statue and range things down to screw up their pathing, then burn them down melee as they get close.
    No ranged attacks really.

    I started out putting a lot of points into Crank/Load/Dismantle, and while that's helpful and a good slot for extra points, honestly putting points into Tripwire upgrades WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better.
    Yes I like those. At 4th row I'm splitting points between crank and triggercount. Next row up I'll probably do similar but maybe focus on repair more than stun duration.

 

 
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