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  1. #1

    Another BB thread :)

    Yes, I know there are countless threads about BB. Anyway I need to get this of my chest.
    So first of all, I ´m not a power player. In the past I used to be in a kinship that was raiding frequently.
    I still enjoy instances in random groups. Small an big ones but I´m not completely focused on just raids.
    In the first place I was a bit dissapointed about BB beeing the new Endgame content but I thought let´s give it
    a try. From the Helms Deep storyline it made sence to me to experience this huge battle in some other sort of way
    than traditional instances. So I gave it a try the last two days.

    I´m sorry but I have to admit, this is the most boring thing
    I played, ever. Really I ´m standing there shooting trash mobs for like 10 minutes that are basically allready dead
    because they´re getting killed by npc´s faster than i can get out a shoot. And I ´m a hunter, so how boring must that
    be for melee classes ? If I´m not killing mobs I´m standing there for.. well it feels like hours clicking on ladders waiting
    for a timer to finish.
    I played games like "lotr:conquest" or "lotr:return of the king" that also contain big battles in some way
    and those were actually fun ! But what the heck is this.. seriously ? To be honest I was allready bored when playing them the first time.
    Also those events or quests inbetween don´t make it much better. It´s just shooting other mobs or maybe carry around some chests.
    After two days I really have no motivation left to spend more time on BBs. Grinding Hythbold is more fun than this.
    Sorry, but you really messed it up. It´s cr** ! Just my opinion.

  2. #2
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realised that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for. Your job is to organise the defences: lay traps, order the captains, deal with the side-quests, repair barricades and flags, fire the siege weapons, etc. The only time you really need to pew pew the enemy is for some of the side-quests, e.g. protecting the horses on Helm's Dike and maybe to help the soldiers if there's nothing else needed.

    If you still find that boring fair enough, but I'd recommend giving them a try especially in a group as that's a lot more fun than trying them solo.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realised that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for. Your job is to organise the defences: lay traps, order the captains, deal with the side-quests, repair barricades and flags, fire the siege weapons, etc. The only time you really need to pew pew the enemy is for some of the side-quests, e.g. protecting the horses on Helm's Dike and maybe to help the soldiers if there's nothing else needed.

    If you still find that boring fair enough, but I'd recommend giving them a try especially in a group as that's a lot more fun than trying them solo.
    I think he has realized it, and made it clear that clicking ladders is even more boring. Try it in a group? What's difference in a group? You still do the same thing as you do in solo, trying to kill mobs before the NPCs do, clicking objects. How that could be more interesting? The only different thing is there are more people around doing the same thing as you do.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiritier View Post
    I think he has realized it, and made it clear that clicking ladders is even more boring. Try it in a group? What's difference in a group? You still do the same thing as you do in solo, trying to kill mobs before the NPCs do, clicking objects. How that could be more interesting? The only different thing is there are more people around doing the same thing as you do.
    ^ This.


    A badly implemented 4th rate browser C&C clone is still a badly implemented 4th rate browser C&C clone even if played in a group.

    All The Best

  5. #5
    I agree with them being boring. My biggest problem with them is it just seems like another way Turbine is designing content for us to play while not playing our class.

    I don't feel like a Champ when I play in BB. Just like when they introduced MC, I didn't feel like a Champ. I would like to see content that allows me to play the class I've been playing for 5 plus years and not some mini game.

  6. #6
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    why was my BB thread deleted? i got replies in my email, but the thread is gone. i dont see how my thread broke any rules.

    it was titled:

    Players being turned away from BB Raids because they aren't experienced enough?'

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realised that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for.
    Unless of course you wanted to play the role of Vanguard, then it is very much your job to kill the enemy yourself.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realised that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for. Your job is to organise the defences: lay traps, order the captains, deal with the side-quests, repair barricades and flags, fire the siege weapons, etc. The only time you really need to pew pew the enemy is for some of the side-quests, e.g. protecting the horses on Helm's Dike and maybe to help the soldiers if there's nothing else needed.

    If you still find that boring fair enough, but I'd recommend giving them a try especially in a group as that's a lot more fun than trying them solo.
    Well I ´ll give it another try in bigger groups. But I have little hope it´s more fun. Endgamecontent to me means you leveled your class character to max level
    and than you want to use all the stuff you leveled for. With BB in the way you described it, you basically will just use a fraction of your charcter abilities and a lot
    of new stuff that is in my opinion boring and is in no way connected to the class you choose. In a traditional Instance a healer had to heal, a DD made damage
    and so on. Now you lay traps, build ballistas and stuff like this. This is stuff you don´t really need a class for. Everyone can do it. I wouldn´t even complain about
    that, but I can´t find any excitment so far in these "Big Battles".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realized that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for.
    This is exactly the point,it's not a run-&-kill like everything else,I have been using an rk to keep archers alive and
    keep soldiers fighting while placing barricades where they might do some good and help get me better merit while
    I let the NPC's do their job of taking the brunt of the mobs. I've been doing solo/duo with kin and we've been having
    fun figuring where to place barricades and ballista where they will do the most good as far as getting us the best
    merit and possible points. Or just placing them in odd places to see what happens too, like a ballista on top of
    pile or rock so it sets up in the air.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    If you've read the other threads then you should have realised that your job in these battles is not to kill the enemy yourself, that's what the NPC soldiers are for.
    If that were true there would not be a Vanguard class. R6 Vanguard's don't get +30% in-combat run speed in order to place barricades; or Killstreak powers in order to issue healing orders. All Vanguard powers are designed for fast killing of enemy mobs.

    But nobody tries it. They mistakenly think you must all be engineers and officers to succeed. If people actually ran with a group of r6 Vanguards they would see how powerful that is. You can mow down those waves of adds in no time. You can protect workers WAY easier because you run so fast and deal such huge dmg the mobs die before the workers. But instead you have noobs forming groups in glff asking for only r4+ officers and engineers. And when you get in the group NOBODY is a Vanguard. Then they wonder why things still fail.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    And when you get in the group NOBODY is a Vanguard. Then they wonder why things still fail.
    Fail? Are you saying people are actually failing these t1 skirms?

    Oh dear, what has this game become....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    Fail? Are you saying people are actually failing these t1 skirms?
    Yes, because they're not T1 skirmishes. If you stand there and do nothing you stand a good chance of failing. If you stand there and get lucky so that you don't fail your rewards will be minimal. I have failed on these several times before getting the hang of it, even when I was working hard. If you start losing defenders then it just gets harder and you lose more defenders until you're overrun. On the 12 person Deeping Wall raid I've been several times but have not completed the main quests successfully, usually because everyone else is off at a side quest while the main wall gets overrun or Aragorn falls, etc.

    There were people claiming you didn't need to do anything and still get gold/platinum, but that was just after NDA was lifted and if it actually was true if definitely does not apply today. There's a steep learning curve.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Yes, because they're not T1 skirmishes. If you stand there and do nothing you stand a good chance of failing. If you stand there and get lucky so that you don't fail your rewards will be minimal. I have failed on these several times before getting the hang of it, even when I was working hard. If you start losing defenders then it just gets harder and you lose more defenders until you're overrun. On the 12 person Deeping Wall raid I've been several times but have not completed the main quests successfully, usually because everyone else is off at a side quest while the main wall gets overrun or Aragorn falls, etc.

    There were people claiming you didn't need to do anything and still get gold/platinum, but that was just after NDA was lifted and if it actually was true if definitely does not apply today. There's a steep learning curve.
    The 12 person Deeping Wall just needs one person (the leader) to know what he's doing. If you have that, you will almost never get less than gold.

    So, when I was just trying to get Vandals in the Tower, I would sit afk in the Deeping Wall solo instance doing other things while waiting to see if I would get it. I went through the whole instance once, without ever doing anything at all. I got Silver overall, lost two banners, even managed to get Silver in a sidequest. All while completely afk without having done anything. It is, quite literally, impossible to lose any soldiers on the main wall during the Deeping Wall quest. I managed to complete the instance with a Silver reward while afk, I don't know how much easier than that it gets. If you don't believe me, go into Deeping Wall afk and see for yourself. That's the only one I've actually checked, but it's not really reaching to assume the other battles are at or near the same difficulty level, aside from Helm's Dike with the two difficult side quests.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    If that were true there would not be a Vanguard class. R6 Vanguard's don't get +30% in-combat run speed in order to place barricades; or Killstreak powers in order to issue healing orders. All Vanguard powers are designed for fast killing of enemy mobs.

    But nobody tries it. They mistakenly think you must all be engineers and officers to succeed. If people actually ran with a group of r6 Vanguards they would see how powerful that is. You can mow down those waves of adds in no time. You can protect workers WAY easier because you run so fast and deal such huge dmg the mobs die before the workers. But instead you have noobs forming groups in glff asking for only r4+ officers and engineers. And when you get in the group NOBODY is a Vanguard. Then they wonder why things still fail.
    of course they don't.. until you've got 120+ points to spend, vanguard is pretty much useless, and even then I really don't see the point. You gain 5% outgoing damage, and you could, if you earned enough kill points, debuff the enemy mobs for +5% AD, -5% OD, etc. Big deal. Sure, you can remove 30% morale with 1 skill, but it requires 20 killstreak which I couldn't even earn on my hunter. (You seem to need to get the kb on a mob to earn killstreak?) lottery.. Which feeds into the next point: it's just too bloody hard to figure out how to use the spec as intended. As such, nobody will bother, given that the benefits from the other two specs are so much more obvious and straightforward. I might try it if we had gotten a free 3rd spec preset to play with, but considering Turbine in its infinite wisdom has decided to charge me 800tp for it, I won't bother. The only sidequest for which the -30% morale thing is almost necessary is for the stupid ram at gate one in hornburg; in all other cases you can manage just as well with the other specs, or you simply don't earn enough killstreak points to make it viable to spec that way. Of course, low burst damage classes, or big-battle-gimped classes such as wardens could really use the -30% morale debuff, but good luck earning killstreak on a warden.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    of course they don't.. until you've got 120+ points to spend, vanguard is pretty much useless, and even then I really don't see the point. You gain 5% outgoing damage, and you could, if you earned enough kill points, debuff the enemy mobs for +5% AD, -5% OD, etc. Big deal. Sure, you can remove 30% morale with 1 skill, but it requires 20 killstreak which I couldn't even earn on my hunter. (You seem to need to get the kb on a mob to earn killstreak?) lottery.. Which feeds into the next point: it's just too bloody hard to figure out how to use the spec as intended. As such, nobody will bother, given that the benefits from the other two specs are so much more obvious and straightforward. I might try it if we had gotten a free 3rd spec preset to play with, but considering Turbine in its infinite wisdom has decided to charge me 800tp for it, I won't bother. The only sidequest for which the -30% morale thing is almost necessary is for the stupid ram at gate one in hornburg; in all other cases you can manage just as well with the other specs, or you simply don't earn enough killstreak points to make it viable to spec that way. Of course, low burst damage classes, or big-battle-gimped classes such as wardens could really use the -30% morale debuff, but good luck earning killstreak on a warden.
    The point is the trait down at the bottom, the one that increases the potency of Vanguard skills. I have been using Vanguard for a while because of it, although the recent nerf to how fast you build killstreak really hurt. The +45% skill potency applies to the +Incoming damage, making it +50% incoming damage. It applies to the Attack Duration, making it a useful debuff if there was anything that did enough damage to warrant it. It makes Piercing Roar epic in solo battles, as it will do almost 12k unmitigated damage then which will pretty much one shot everything, giving you enough killstreak to do it again in 15s.

    The other big one is Killstreak skill duration, that applies to the stun from Stunning Bellow, making it a 10s stun.

    Then there is also the matter of the outgoing heal modifier, great if you're having problems with that, the flat damage boost, the run speed boost. Vanguard is good, but I disagree with the earlier post about multiple Vanguards in a group. That might have worked before they nerfed killstreak building to be so incredibly slow, but now, since you need kbs to build killstreak, it just won't work with more than 2 or maybe 3 people using it in a raid.

    I'm not sure if 120 points is really enough to make use of Vanguard either. I made a build for it around 150, but it didn't really start working great until I got 210.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasin1 View Post
    The point is the trait down at the bottom, the one that increases the potency of Vanguard skills. I have been using Vanguard for a while because of it, although the recent nerf to how fast you build killstreak really hurt. The +45% skill potency applies to the +Incoming damage, making it +50% incoming damage. It applies to the Attack Duration, making it a useful debuff if there was anything that did enough damage to warrant it. It makes Piercing Roar epic in solo battles, as it will do almost 12k unmitigated damage then which will pretty much one shot everything, giving you enough killstreak to do it again in 15s.

    The other big one is Killstreak skill duration, that applies to the stun from Stunning Bellow, making it a 10s stun.

    Then there is also the matter of the outgoing heal modifier, great if you're having problems with that, the flat damage boost, the run speed boost. Vanguard is good, but I disagree with the earlier post about multiple Vanguards in a group. That might have worked before they nerfed killstreak building to be so incredibly slow, but now, since you need kbs to build killstreak, it just won't work with more than 2 or maybe 3 people using it in a raid.

    I'm not sure if 120 points is really enough to make use of Vanguard either. I made a build for it around 150, but it didn't really start working great until I got 210.
    I see. Thank you for the explanation, I will keep it in mind. That said, I 'only' have 189 points on both my wrd and my hunter, so I'm not sure I will enjoy it much, especially considering how easily everything dies from judiciously placed barricades...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    But nobody tries it. They mistakenly think you must all be engineers and officers to succeed.
    But you need to get in killing blows to take advantage of vanguard abilities, but that's hard to do for a lot of classes especially melee-only. It's great if you're doing the side quests where there aren't many soldiers helping but is tough going in the main quest areas. It does not seem like the sort of thing to help someone out who feels unable to contribute enough damage, but is more useful possibly in things like deeping wall raid side quests when used by some classes. I suspect it gets better after spending lots and lots of points but early on it's a hindrance.

    Whereas engineer is useful for any class, even an auto-leveled character with substandard DPS, even with only getting to tier 1 where you can put down traps.

 

 

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