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  1. #1
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    Scale old content petition

    Why do you not scale great instance/raid clusters like Moria and Angmar? They were probably the funnest instances/raids I've ever done and I assure you that you are loosing raiders, Since Isengard it's just getting worse. Everytime I login I wish that I could do these again with fun, Instead of having a lvl 50ish alt to try and find an on lvl group which never happens and then have 95s steamroll it with no tactics.

    This is to you turbine:

    Please scale the following Instance clusters WELL ( Not into wings, not into steamrolled weaklings)

    -Angmar
    -Moria

    You did it with mirkwood, why not these. Stop making #### like BFE and make proper long instances. Why don't you scale all XPACS/inc SoA? I'm pretty sure you have plenty of time. There's no point in not scaling old content your just wasting great content.

    LOTRO community, raiders, sign below.
    Last edited by Hayden102; Dec 16 2013 at 06:55 PM.
    Kornakhas -Defiler, Korbashburz -Reaver, Kortdogestyle -Warg, Kornquickscopamlg - Black Arrow, Kornslurpyourblood - Weaver -Pyrrhic
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  2. #2
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    No thanks. As much as I like the Rift, Carn Dum and Urugarth, it would take a couple of runs to be boring and put to the side... Old recycled content is not new content and as in the recent Fornost revamp I'm afraid it's going to be wasted dev time.
    Ricardofurriel 105 Champion Edved 105 Captain Roovery 105 Minstrel Galathriell 105 Lore-Master EddieVedder 105 Rune-Keeper

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    No thanks. As much as I like the Rift, Carn Dum and Urugarth, it would take a couple of runs to be boring and put to the side... Old recycled content is not new content and as in the recent Fornost revamp I'm afraid it's going to be wasted dev time.
    They are a lot more enjoyable then this bs stuff they put out now. My point is, It's barely done anymore, why not scale stuff (PROPERLY) It doesn't have to be new content, we get new content all the time for people to grind on But the old stuff is never even considered anymore because of the mere rewards. What's the point in making content when in the next xpac it is not scaled, sounds like a waste of time, why bother.
    Last edited by Hayden102; Dec 15 2013 at 06:24 PM.
    Kornakhas -Defiler, Korbashburz -Reaver, Kortdogestyle -Warg, Kornquickscopamlg - Black Arrow, Kornslurpyourblood - Weaver -Pyrrhic
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden102 View Post
    They are a lot more enjoyable then this bs stuff they put out now. My point is, It's barely done anymore, why not scale stuff (PROPERLY) It doesn't have to be new content, we get new content all the time for people to grind on But the old stuff is never even considered anymore because of the mere rewards. What's the point in making content when in the next xpac it is not scaled, sounds like a waste of time, why bother.
    The devs have stated a few times that they would eventually like all old instance clusters to be scalable. The reason it has yet to happen is because Turbine (rightly or wrongly) think that the dev time is better spent on other activities.

    It was asked in a (20 questions) dev chat earlier in the year if the scaling of any of the old instance clusters was 'on the roadmap'. The answer was not at the moment.

  5. #5
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    No thanks. They haven't done any scaling well, and the rewards to go back in are not there either. DN at 95 or Rift at 95 won't be balanced like it was at 50 or 60. I'd rather keep my enjoyable memories. Pass.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  6. #6
    The oldest the content is the worse it scales. MoM could have potential, but SoA? It'd be like Helegrod, sub-par content with outdated and simple mechanics.

    I'd rather see the more recent Isengard IC scaled now that the probabilities of a new IC are minimal.

  7. #7
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    Then scale it better >
    Kornakhas -Defiler, Korbashburz -Reaver, Kortdogestyle -Warg, Kornquickscopamlg - Black Arrow, Kornslurpyourblood - Weaver -Pyrrhic
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  8. #8
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    I've been toying with posting a thread like this for quite a few days now.

    Turbine, I love the old Moria instances. I run them every time I see one being advertised in GLFF, which, sadly, doesn't happen very much anymore.

    Furthermore, the Angmar instances, which I've only run 1-2 times, are amazing as well.

    With the new instances, ###### skirmishes and Big Battles, none of these instances are getting the attention they deserve anymore.

    Honestly, I don't care if you give us ###### rewards or superb rewards, just scale the instances for us. There are many hardcore capped raiders who would love to do nothing more than to stop standing around at the West Gate in Bree and jump into Dol Guldur that's full of on-level mobs.

    Heck, I'd be willing to bet some of us would actually pay (A fair price) for the scaled instances. I sure know I would!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130000001229d7/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  9. #9
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    I too would prefer they spend the time making brand new stuff. All scalable instances so far have gotten progressively easier as the level cap increased, so I can only imagine what sort of cake walk the Rift would be nearly twice as high as its initial level.

    You also have to remember that the level 50 and 60 dungeons do not have multiple difficulty tiers. If Turbine did want to scale these, they would have to decide whether they want to make them stupidly easy so that everyone can complete them, difficult enough that they alienate a certain portion of their player base, or make a second tier of difficulty which will only further increase the time it would take to scale these. So again, I would personally rather they give me exciting new content over wasting their time on the stuff I enjoyed a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by airsoftg36c View Post
    Honestly, I don't care if you give us ###### rewards or superb rewards, just scale the instances for us. There are many hardcore capped raiders who would love to do nothing more than to stop standing around at the West Gate in Bree and jump into Dol Guldur that's full of on-level mobs.
    Dol Guldur has been scaled already... you can already "jump into it" with on-level mobs...
    Last edited by Bombadil411; Dec 16 2013 at 01:18 AM.
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  10. #10
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    The problem is they don't scale it properly, so it ends up being a steamroll for us because of our increased character stats and skill revamps.
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    No thanks. They haven't done any scaling well, and the rewards to go back in are not there either. DN at 95 or Rift at 95 won't be balanced like it was at 50 or 60. I'd rather keep my enjoyable memories. Pass.
    So, keep you memories to yourself and let other people have fun running the scaled Rift or Moria instances, pfff?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e000000294a24/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #12
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    It would be nice to run instances like the Moria cluster again, but I would like to see the difficulty vastly increased (with appropriate rewards) in all current and future scalable content. They don't have to be as hard as they were on-level, but this content really needs to retain some semblance of gameplay, compared to zerg zerg zerg.
    Beastwise | Gladden | Shock and Awe

  13. #13
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    According to Turbine locks don't work with scaled instances. And a on-level run of CD or Rift takes quite a bit of time, simply due to the large areas involved, I doubt many people would have the time to complete that without locks. So far Turbines solution for that has been to split the instance up into multiple separate (linear) wings, which kind of kills the atmosphere of those instances.

    For Moria (and Lothlorien and GA) instances that's a lesser problem, so I consider them more likely candidates for scaling. Though I'd prefer if Moria instances would not made scalable as a kind of training grounds for group play while levelling (in my experience there are almost no groups for scaling instances below level cap except for power-levelling in 3-mans).
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    According to Turbine locks don't work with scaled instances. And a on-level run of CD or Rift takes quite a bit of time, simply due to the large areas involved, I doubt many people would have the time to complete that without locks. So far Turbines solution for that has been to split the instance up into multiple separate (linear) wings, which kind of kills the atmosphere of those instances.

    For Moria (and Lothlorien and GA) instances that's a lesser problem, so I consider them more likely candidates for scaling. Though I'd prefer if Moria instances would not made scalable as a kind of training grounds for group play while levelling (in my experience there are almost no groups for scaling instances below level cap except for power-levelling in 3-mans).
    Could you elaborate on locks not working with scaled instances? Or point me to where it was discussed?


    And I agree, if they scale it they have to do it right. The difficulty should still be there, so they'd have to do a lot of testing with the Beta people and see how it works out and tweak it. Another thing that can't happen is splitting the raids into separate wings. That ruins it completely.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it"
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  15. #15
    I can't believe people are actually saying "No" to this.

    Why wouldn't you want the best instances, by far, on this game to be scaled? "Rather keep your memories" ?? Running scaled instances wouldn't kill the memories of the others, I mean Helms Deep is garbage and it doesn't ruin Moria/Mirkwood for me.

    They'll scale them eventually, hopefully it's soon, because the garbage Big Battles are not spectacular content. I'd rather old, revamped Content than this garbage.
    I am Retired.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    Could you elaborate on locks not working with scaled instances? Or point me to where it was discussed?


    And I agree, if they scale it they have to do it right. The difficulty should still be there, so they'd have to do a lot of testing with the Beta people and see how it works out and tweak it. Another thing that can't happen is splitting the raids into separate wings. That ruins it completely.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it"
    It was discussed when scaling first started, although I don't have a link for you. The other issue in my mind is they break up the raids into "wings" instead of making them linear to avoid the issue of locks from boss to boss. I don't want to see DN broken into 6 separate wings, or 3 separate wings. I don't want to see Rift broken up so you can go to the last guy without doing the rest if you've cleared it once before. At that point people just farm one wing, or go straight to the final boss for something special (clasp). One of the problems with expecting them to have Beta people test and tweak is it's already in its semi-final form when Beta people get it. We don't get to say "leave it whole, it doesn't work instanced into wings" because once they go down that design path it's done - no going back. They're not going to put the resources into splitting it up into wings just to scrap it and go "you didn't like it, we're going to revert to the old instance plan". Be careful what you wish for.

    Edit: @Lodesh, I agree about Big Battles, I've never been a fan of them. But their method of scaling instances leaves them unbalanced, the difficulty isn't there that we had initially, and they fail to put the rewards in there for people to continue to run the content. Personally I think the older instances were the best in the game, and raids like the Erebor set and glorified skirm-like battles are not my cup of tea. But it's not going to make them fun again if they're done badly, and I don't think Turbine has a good track record of scaling old instances well at all.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodesh View Post
    I can't believe people are actually saying "No" to this.
    Yes, even DN had no more interest at 85 (now it must be worse of course) : for example for Flâgît, we killed him in a few seconds with DPS classes and the healing mechanic (Vigor) which was original around 60 was completely broken.

  18. #18
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    Would love to see this implemented in 2014..
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  19. #19
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    I would prefer to see the time spent developing new content as opposed to rehashing the old stuff again. Maybe I'm in the minority but it's hard to get motivated to run instances for gear after having farmed that same instance 4-5 years ago. If anything the community deserves new instances to run, not more scaled stuff.

  20. #20
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    I would drown baby hobbits for a scalable foundry and ga fortress

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  21. #21
    as with just about EVERYTHING turbine has done since OD, they just fail to put in enough effort to do it right

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    Could you elaborate on locks not working with scaled instances? Or point me to where it was discussed?
    It was a dev statement around Update 9 as people wondered why BG didn't have locks anymore.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lodesh View Post
    I can't believe people are actually saying "No" to this.

    Why wouldn't you want the best instances, by far, on this game to be scaled? "Rather keep your memories" ?? Running scaled instances wouldn't kill the memories of the others, I mean Helms Deep is garbage and it doesn't ruin Moria/Mirkwood for me.

    They'll scale them eventually, hopefully it's soon, because the garbage Big Battles are not spectacular content. I'd rather old, revamped Content than this garbage.
    To me, the problem with scaling instances (especially pre-RoI instances) is that they're not balanced for the changes made throughout the years. This is especially in regards to stat cap removals, added max caps to crit, BPE and so forth. When OD and BG were scaled all that seemed to change was the amount of morale and the amount of damage, and those amounts are very skewed IMO.
    I did Gortheron T2HM a couple of times @lvl95 in PUGs, and in the last phase we found ourselves with 1-5 stacks on the boss, and since you need 50 for the Challenge you use the last 5-8 minutes or so waiting for the stacks to build.
    As I see it, that's a big sign that OD has not been rebalanced to make up for the heavily increased DPS that RoI and later expansions gave us, and Turbine didn't bother implementing any mechanics to offset the DPS changes (e.g. making each wave @ Gortheron have more morale and morale damage for every wave you kill off or give Gotheron a runspeed+damage buff when you kill too many mobs or DPS Gortheron too much). With Erebor they tried to make mechanics for handling such DPS, but they didn't really give the DPS any other tasks to handle when not doing DPS, making bad raids even worse.

    If they do the same with Moria and the Rift it's just going to be the same bland experience, just with different graphics.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Dec 19 2013 at 10:14 AM.

  24. #24
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    I already posted this in the German forum section but I will repeat it here...

    I vote against scaling old content because I am very sure that this is what is going to happen:

    - Multiboss raids/instances will be divided in different wings like GB, Helegrod, Fornost, OD. Having a Rift part 1, 2, 3, 4 would destroy pretty much everthing of the great atmosphere in this classic raid.
    - All sets will be availaible in skirmish camps. You will not have the feeling of getting something rare or special any more.
    - The new loot system will be introduced and raid locks will be removed. The easiest wings will be farmed over and over again.
    - All old items will be removed. No Jewelled Bell, no Wig-Feld,... Instead we will get some of the boring items with similar names and the same scaleable stats without anything unique...
    - T1/T2 will be introduced. T1 will be ridiculously easy. You won't feel much difference between doing the raid now on the orignal level with level capped chars and T1 on 95 after the scaling.
    - Some of the few funny thrashmobs will be nerfed. Like in Sammath Gûl.
    - Some of the bosses will have some new mechanics added, but most bosses will be nerfed. Like in Sari-Surma: The first two bosses are a bad joke now (they were orignally very entertaining) and in the last fight, you have to kite the two Guardians. What a miserable exchange!
    - Effects won't be scaled correctly. Diseases/wounds will be ignorable... Standing in the lava in the arena of Trâng? Won't make any difference...
    - Skills of the bosses won't be adjusted to the changes of the classes. E.g. many skills of our classes have a lower CD now - I'm quite sure that the bosses' skills won't have their CDs reduced.
    - Our DPS will be so high that many mechanics can be easily ignored. Example: Thaurlach attacking Glathlírel in the last phase won't even be realised by most players. Additionally our incoming damage will be much lower than it should be. Just like in every other scaled old content.

    Turbine showed this every single time when old content was scaled. I dont know the reason for this. Either they have too little time and money to scale things correctly or they just want to remove even the last things that remind us of the days when we had challenging atmospheric group content.


    @Hayden102 pushing your own thread spamming random letters is against the community guidelines.
    Last edited by Eruadarion; Dec 22 2013 at 07:50 AM.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    I already posted this in the German forum section but I will repeat it here...

    I vote against scaling old content because I am very sure that this is what is going to happen:

    - Multiboss raids/instances will be divided in different wings like GB, Helegrod, Fornost, OD. Having a Rift part 1, 2, 3, 4 would destroy pretty much everthing of the great atmosphere in this classic raid.
    - All sets will be availaible in skirmish camps. You will not have the feeling of getting something rare or special any more.
    - The new loot system will be introduced and raid locks will be removed. The easiest wings will be farmed over and over again.
    - All old items will be removed. No Jewelled Bell, no Wig-Feld,... Instead we will get some of the boring items with similar names and the same scaleable stats without anything unique...
    - T1/T2 will be introduced. T1 will be ridiculously easy. You won't feel much difference between doing the raid now on the orignal level with level capped chars and T1 on 95 after the scaling.
    - Some of the few funny thrashmobs will be nerfed. Like in Sammath Gûl.
    - Some of the bosses will have some new mechanics added, but most bosses will be nerfed. Like in Sari-Surma: The first two bosses are a bad joke now (they were orignally very entertaining) and in the last fight, you have to kite the two Guardians. What a miserable exchange!
    - Effects won't be scaled correctly. Diseases/wounds will be ignorable... Standing in the lava in the arena of Trâng? Won't make any difference...
    - Skills of the bosses won't be adjusted to the changes of the classes. E.g. many skills of our classes have a lower CD now - I'm quite sure that the bosses' skills won't have their CDs reduced.
    - Our DPS will be so high that many mechanics can be easily ignored. Example: Thaurlach attacking Glathlírel in the last phase won't even be realised by most players. Additionally our incoming damage will be much lower than it should be. Just like in every other scaled old content.

    Turbine showed this every single time when old content was scaled. I dont know the reason for this. Either they have too little time and money to scale things correctly or they just want to remove even the last things that remind us of the days when we had challenging atmospheric group content.


    @Hayden102 pushing your own thread spamming random letters is against the community guidelines.

    You named pretty much everything why I'm against scaling, or to be precise: scaling done incorrectly. In addition, removal of deco items and forgetting to put them up even in skirm camps and inability for players to run anything mid-level cause no point, just rush to cap.

 

 
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