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  1. #1

    Post Crash on leaving battles in helm's deep

    My client crashes on completing the helms deep battles. It's happened three out of three tries thus far; appears to happen as soon as it triggers the teleport out of the battle.

    iMac 27 inch, a few years old, running OS X 10.8.5

    Anyone else seeing this, and is there a workaround other than "just restart the client every time you leave a battle"?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by LovelyDragon View Post
    My client crashes on completing the helms deep battles. It's happened three out of three tries thus far; appears to happen as soon as it triggers the teleport out of the battle.

    iMac 27 inch, a few years old, running OS X 10.8.5

    Anyone else seeing this, and is there a workaround other than "just restart the client every time you leave a battle"?
    At the end of Beta 6, this was a "known issue" -- which they apparently did not "successfully" fix by launch.

    Assuming, of course, that your problem is the same as was seen then. I don't recall the details, but it was effectively that -- crash at the conclusion of the Battle ... don't know which battle or what situation.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LovelyDragon View Post
    My client crashes on completing the helms deep battles. It's happened three out of three tries thus far; appears to happen as soon as it triggers the teleport out of the battle.

    iMac 27 inch, a few years old, running OS X 10.8.5

    Anyone else seeing this, and is there a workaround other than "just restart the client every time you leave a battle"?
    I'm also seeing this issue most battles I run, but today I started seeing a new issue. I'm also crashing at sidequest bestowal. When I log in, the battle is still going on, but I miss out on the sidequests and rewards :/

  4. #4
    I'm having the exact same issues - LOTRO crashes as the big battles are completed (3 of 3 time thus far), and during some of the Epic Quests that take place between the big battles. The battles themselves have run OK thus far.

    Late 2009 iMac, OS X 10.7.5, 12 GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4850.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semper_Dad View Post
    I'm having the exact same issues - LOTRO crashes as the big battles are completed (3 of 3 time thus far), and during some of the Epic Quests that take place between the big battles. The battles themselves have run OK thus far.

    Late 2009 iMac, OS X 10.7.5, 12 GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4850.
    1- 10.7.5 is borderline for a working system. I don't know if your iMac is one of the ones which cannot upgrade to Lion, but if you can, I would do so.

    2- As far as I know the crash at the end of Epic Battles is "not yet fixed." (It was a "known issue" at the end of the Beta.) At least I have not seen any specific acknowledgment of it in the release notes.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
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    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  6. #6

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    1- 10.7.5 is borderline for a working system. I don't know if your iMac is one of the ones which cannot upgrade to Lion, but if you can, I would do so.

    2- As far as I know the crash at the end of Epic Battles is "not yet fixed." (It was a "known issue" at the end of the Beta.) At least I have not seen any specific acknowledgment of it in the release notes.
    For what it's worth, it doesn't appear to be related to the OS level; I get the same issue on 10.9.2 (intermittently -- I crash on exiting the battles about 20% of the time). I still think it's worth upgrading your MacOS version for the other nice things you'll get, but don't expect it to fix this bug.

    For some reason, Deeping Coomb appears to be the most frequent crasher, though maybe that's just a run of bad luck.

    There are references in other threads here about memory leaks relating to transitioning between zones; it may be that the battles are just particularly bad for the leak, for whatever reason.

  7. #7
    Hi, i have exactly the same problem when i try to play one of the helm's deep, sometimes i can make the battle, and it's crashed after, and sometimes it's crashed when i try to begin!, and only with the helm's deep!

  8. #8
    yup, I'm the same. The whole game quits to desktop every time I try to travel to the Vol3, book 13 chapter 5 instance 'a need for words'...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybegee View Post
    yup, I'm the same. The whole game quits to desktop every time I try to travel to the Vol3, book 13 chapter 5 instance 'a need for words'...
    I happen to have multiple installations of the Mac Client and Bullroarer Client on my system and one thing which I noticed recently -- I'm not positive if it is related to the last update or not, however.

    Basically, I was seeing repeated crashes implying that something "music/audio" related was having a protection issue.

    So, using Terminal, I simply did "chmod -R ug+rwx" at the top level (.app) and that seems to have made a difference.

    How the permissions got changed?? I can only guess.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  10. #10

    Angry Same Issue - Helms Deep Crashes

    I also crash every time I complete the first HD instance. I tried Deepening Wall yesterday and crashed 3 times during the instance and a 4th time when I completed it (I failed, not surprising). I will likely not be able to complete the HD epics at this rate if it doesn't get fixed.

    Running OS X 10.8.5

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhand View Post
    I also crash every time I complete the first HD instance. I tried Deepening Wall yesterday and crashed 3 times during the instance and a 4th time when I completed it (I failed, not surprising). I will likely not be able to complete the HD epics at this rate if it doesn't get fixed.

    Running OS X 10.8.5
    Yes, Epic Battles still seem prone to crashing.

    However, just on general principals, I would recommend upgrading to Mountain Lion 10.9.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    Yes, Epic Battles still seem prone to crashing.

    However, just on general principals, I would recommend upgrading to Mountain Lion 10.9.
    I am using the 10.9 Mountain Lion and having this crash issue with HD epic battles on my mac client. Its really driving me crazy to keep re-launching the client again and again....if only there is a way to fix that

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saurontx View Post
    I am using the 10.9 Mountain Lion and having this crash issue with HD epic battles on my mac client. Its really driving me crazy to keep re-launching the client again and again....if only there is a way to fix that
    Yes, the Epic Battles and the Mac Client have definite "issues."

    Feel free to send them dumps with your bug reports (use the Forum form to attach the dumps)

    /Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/lotroclient-<date>-<time>_<hostname>.crash

    I usually empty that directory after each update and then zip a bunch of them together.
    I've already got 24 of them since the 14th and I haven't even been playing every day!
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    So, using Terminal, I simply did "chmod -R ug+rwx" at the top level (.app) and that seems to have made a difference.

    How the permissions got changed?? I can only guess.
    After first setting my graphics to medium and making sure Post Processing Effects and Specular Lighting were turned off, I kept crashing after completing Big Battles. However, I changed the permissions as you mentioned yesterday and was able to complete 4 big battles and play for several hours without a crash.

    This morning I've set my graphics back to where I want and I'll check to see how BB's react.

    Thanks Valamar
    [color=red]Mac Player[/color] 15" rMBP - 8GB RAM - 500 GB SSD - 1GB GT 650M - Mac OS X 10.9.3

  15. #15
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    So I realized after my BB's today, that I did not reply to this post with my results.

    So far I have not crashed during or after a BB ever since I performed the change of permissions you suggested Valamar. +1
    [color=red]Mac Player[/color] 15" rMBP - 8GB RAM - 500 GB SSD - 1GB GT 650M - Mac OS X 10.9.3

  16. #16
    Hey, I have a Mac less than 12 months old i7 with updated gaming software and an up to the minute platform and yet the client crash's after each and every instance. It has crashed numerous times while in game play and if I die, it generally folds. I will look at the work arounds however, it baffles me that we have known issues that remain unresolved i.e. work arounds for splash screens etc....
    Cheers

    an update:

    I tried opening terminal and applying "chmod -R ug+rw" I don't really understand what you mean by applying it at the top (.app) so would be grateful if there was someone available to clarify.
    Cheers
    Last edited by He11ion; Jun 17 2014 at 11:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by He11ion View Post
    Hey, I have a Mac less than 12 months old i7 with updated gaming software and an up to the minute platform and yet the client crash's after each and every instance. It has crashed numerous times while in game play and if I die, it generally folds. I will look at the work arounds however, it baffles me that we have known issues that remain unresolved i.e. work arounds for splash screens etc....
    Cheers

    an update:

    I tried opening terminal and applying "chmod -R ug+rw" I don't really understand what you mean by applying it at the top (.app) so would be grateful if there was someone available to clarify.
    1- Instructions are written up here: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Mac_...single_machine
    (much Mac Client information is here if you are not familiar with it.)

    2- Have you also run "/Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility" and "Repair Disk Permissions" on your disk?

    3- What do you mean by "updated gaming software" -- there is no "gaming software" related to LOTRO for the Mac. No graphics drivers, etc. can be updated by anyone other than Apple.

    4- The Mac Client is known to crash every 45-60 minutes of game play. No response has been received from Turbine. This effect seems to be most common in Rohan (East and West) and much less, to non-existent in the "starter areas" (level under 40); I have not seen any reports of this in the recently revised Trollshaws, Misty Mountains and North Downs.

    5- Make certain that you /bug your crashes.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

    Partial cast
    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    1-
    2- Have you also run "/Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility" and "Repair Disk Permissions" on your disk?

    3- What do you mean by "updated gaming software" -- there is no "gaming software" related to LOTRO for the Mac. No graphics drivers, etc. can be updated by anyone other than Apple.

    4- The Mac Client is known to crash every 45-60 minutes of game play. No response has been received from Turbine. This effect seems to be most common in Rohan (East and West) and much less, to non-existent in the "starter areas" (level under 40); I have not seen any reports of this in the recently revised Trollshaws, Misty Mountains and North Downs.

    5- Make certain that you /bug your crashes.
    Many thanks for your response. Upon updating computers i decided to try Mac and although I am conversant with PC's, this is still, very new to me. I have not run the Disk Utility and will do so immediately with thanks.

    I reference "Updated software for gaming" because I am not conversant with the lingo. I purchased the Mac because being on a Satellite connection, there is always that tedious delay between hitting a key and getting a reaction on screen, so I wanted a computer that offset this, with that in mind I purchased the Mac. Without going into detail, I was given and took the option to upgrade and have installed better "hardware" at that time which was not offered with the standard retail model. Is that the right terminology?

    Yes I will document the crash logs in future, lesson learnt.

    I concur that this has never occurred on a regular basis other than Helm's Deep.

    Thank you for you assistance. I will have a look at the link provided and see what I can do to rectify this.


    Cheers

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by He11ion View Post
    Many thanks for your response. Upon updating computers i decided to try Mac and although I am conversant with PC's, this is still, very new to me. I have not run the Disk Utility and will do so immediately with thanks.
    Disk Utility is one of those "magic" utilities. What Apple claims that it does and what it appears to do are seemingly different things.
    OSX is basically Unix underneath the pretty GUI. Apple claims that Disk Utility "changes" permissions on APPLE software written according the "the Apple Way." It changes those permissions to match a pre-determined set listed with/in the "application bundle." These changes are displayed in the window as it scans through your system. If you know Unix, most of those changes are pretty innocuous and should have no effect on any non-Apple software -- but they do.
    The end result is -- following any upgrade (especially of any Apple Software), one should first run Disk Utility if any "strange" behavior is seen. Usually this does nothing but consume time, but sometimes it unexpectedly fixes things!

    Quote Originally Posted by He11ion View Post
    I reference "Updated software for gaming" because I am not conversant with the lingo.
    Apple runs/operates-in what the computing media calls "a walled garden." That is to say, it's all about control. Apple products, both hardware and software, are virtually impossible to "upgrade" with any non-Apple hardware or especially software. The ability to use non-Apple hardware is limited to a few "slotted," high-end, "professional" Apple products. Probably 90+% of Apple sales are of "unibody" computers -- the iMac and MacBook computers. The concept of "Drivers" is foreign to Apple products. Apple Licenses both hardware and software from 3rd parties, and then integrates that hardware into their "one-board" computers and software into OSX. The end result being that you cannot purchase any "off-the-shelf" upgrades for either Hardware or Software from anyone other than Apple. Internal disk drives being about the only exception. Because of the one-board design, you cannot purchase and install Graphics Cards, Sound Cards as you can for the PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by He11ion View Post
    I purchased the Mac because being on a Satellite connection, there is always that tedious delay between hitting a key and getting a reaction on screen, so I wanted a computer that offset this, with that in mind I purchased the Mac. Without going into detail, I was given and took the option to upgrade and have installed better "hardware" at that time which was not offered with the standard retail model. Is that the right terminology?
    Retailing 101: Depending upon HOW you purchased your Mac, the "standard retail model" has MANY upgrade options. If you visit Apple's website you can see all of the "standard" upgrades. These are basically additional RAM, different graphics with more VRAM, larger hard disk, larger screen size, different CPU.
    As with any retailing, the retailer buys a bunch of stuff in advance and then trys to sell what they bought. So for any given retailer, the "standard model" may vary from time to time based upon their own inventory. Most retailers who are NOT Apple Stores, have only a very few of each model, and probably are heavy on the lowest priced models. The same is true of "upgrades." Most are in-fact, factory installed, it's just up to the retailer to order "that model."

    I have a 27 inch iMac with more Vram and (at the time) the largest internal disk drive available. In 2010, it was "top of the line" -- all the bells and whistles.
    Sadly, way back then SSD was incredibly expensive -- more than then entire iMac for a 256K drive! Prices have come down a bit since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by He11ion View Post
    Yes I will document the crash logs in future, lesson learnt.
    One thing about the crash logs/dumps

    Because of the "Apple Way" -- an application is a "bundle." That is to say, all of the pieces are wrapped up in a single wrapper to make them look like a unitized entity.
    LOTRO is composed of two pieces -- the Launcher and the Game Client.
    The Launcher does the authentication with Turbine servers, and acquires a "token" from them. It then passes that token along to the Game Client.
    The net effect here is that when you get a crash display from OSX and it offers you to "resume" -- you cannot.
    That crash dump is from the Game Client. So, when you try to resume, you do not have the necessary token to re-initialize the game client, and it fails.

    BTW- One thing about a satellite link. Many years ago when they were first being developed, I was working with NSFnet's JVNCnet on implementing "high speed" (T1 speeds then) networking, including satellite links. The simple fact of a satellite link is -- it's a LONG way to run! The latency built-in to any satellite link is roughly 1/4 of a second -- the time it takes the signal to go up to the satellite in geostationary orbit and come back down. While the net speed can approach terrestrial or land-line networks, this latency is "built-in" and cannot be improved upon, it's a limitation of the speed of light and the distances involved. (Quantum technology aint there yet! )
    There are more issues and options based on who your provider is, but latency is still the main issue.

    I'm not certain how much or what (if anything) OSX will offer to deal with this Latency issue -- especially now that "everything" is moving to integrate with "the cloud" (iCloud in this case).

    I should add -- what you see and do with your Game Client's keyboard is first sent off to Turbine's servers, and then a response is sent back. For you, this will involve two round-trips to your satellite! (You - up/down; Turbine - up/down) For example, when you attempt to move, you press W which is sent to the server which responds back to the client -- move the character to location X/Y. There is very little done directly by the game client. The new Cosmetic Pets (Hurons and Shrews, with more coming in U14) are animated strictly in the local client, but they are the exception. The Game Client mostly does disk I/O for graphics backgrounds. -- but that is another long involved discussion.

    All that hot air aside -- welcome to the Mac!
    Feel free to PM he here or on lotro-wiki.com with any Mac related, but not necessarily LOTRO questions.
    PMs on the forums here may take a while to get a response because the notification system in the Lotro forums tends to be "weird."
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

    Partial cast
    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  20. #20
    I am using a MacBook Pro, Retina, 15 inch, Late 2013
    Pocessor: 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
    Memory: 16GB 1600MHz DDR3
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB
    Software: OS X 10.9.3

    I have to run LOTRO at all it's lowest settings so that it doesn't crash / get weird graphics / Lag.
    Every time I try "Helms Dike" I get between 3 and 30 minutes game time before it crashes and doesn't save any of the game time (Really annoying). Any help with this would be most welcome. Starting to lose faith with LOTRO

    Error Message: Game error [35916676]

    I have submitted 2 tickets.

    All I want to know is if it's worth while getting further involved with LOTRO as a Mac user or spend my hard earned cash / time on something else?
    Last edited by migosh0000; Jun 25 2014 at 08:23 PM.

  21. #21
    Many thanks for taking the time for such an in-depth explanation, such a learning curve. I love the Mac and am supper impressed with the graphics. As per the above post, it was suggested that I try altering the graphics settings as well as applying the Disk Utility permissions Repair. This was successful when I entered Helms Deep (as per the epic line of quests) however was unsuccessful in the next stage. I guess it will take some time to thrash out, but thats the way of it.

    Once again thank you for your response.

    Muchly appreciated.

    :0)

  22. #22
    I've got the same problem - crashing reliably a few seconds after leaving the HD instance.

    I've checked the permissions, and they seem fine - I ran chmod -R on the entire folder, but it didn't fix it.

    Disk verify found and then fixed some problems, but that made no difference.

    I've tried the lowest graphic settings and it still crashes every time.

    I've disabled all plugins, and it still crashes every time.

    My main is only up to the first BB, so all this applies to the Deeping Wall.

    This is on a rMBP.

    The diagnostic logs point to a SIGBUS - which looks like a bad pointer (to 0x0000000000001000). I can't see anything in the dump or traceback that suggests anything else.

    Does anyone have any suggestions? It's annoying, but not terrible, since it only happens after the BB is over (but it does mean I can't read the results for long).

    Edited to add: It seems to be related to the results window - it doesn't happen on the HD tutorial.

    Adding again: I'm wondering now if it's because of where I'm returning to (the HD after midnight instance) - I tried a BB on another (level 12 ) toon who was in Bree and he had no trouble after several BBs.
    Last edited by Parenn; Jul 23 2014 at 10:08 PM.

  23. #23
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    The crash of the Mac Client at the end of Big Battles has been happening since the HD Beta.

    The only thing you can do is to bug it every time it happens. (Use the Forum "submit a bug" form if you don't want to log back in to use /bug.)

    Like PvMP or Raiding, Mac players are a very small minority of LOTRO players and with the apparent "downsizing" of Turbine, support is pretty thin for all issues. on both platforms.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

    Partial cast
    Valamar: Dwarf Hunter - Level 105
    Valdicta: Dwarf Rune-keeper - Level 105
    Valanne: Beorning - Level 91

  24. #24
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    I can confirm that the bug still exists. It crashes 9 out of 10 times after leaving BB's.

  25. #25
    Crashed approximately four times tonight during the Deeping Wall epic battle before I got frustrated and gave up. Am trying the disk utility thing and the permissions fix, will bug if it screws up again.

 

 
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