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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verizal View Post
    I do realize that this may throw off some of the tracking that has already been done, so I am not opposed to the idea of releasing a list of all of the potential drops and their respective spaces if people are interested in that.
    Yes, please. You will be a god among men if do.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    Yes, please. You will be a god among men if do.
    yes please

  3. #28
    I know the hate will come for saying this but I love not knowing where the loot is....yet.

    I actually can get people motivated to run tons of different content right now since it's a surprise what will drop at the end of a lost temple run, or an SG run, or a BG raid. I'm enjoying the heck out of the surprise. Once that lootlist drops, all i'm going to hear is "I would like to run annuminas because it has this bracelet" for maybe hunters, and rks will say "please can we do Dale for the shoulder piece?". And if I broadcast something besides these two things I am worried I will never get any more hunters or rks etc. Oh well, it's probably the new car smell wearing off on me.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verizal View Post
    I do realize that this may throw off some of the tracking that has already been done, so I am not opposed to the idea of releasing a list of all of the potential drops and their respective spaces if people are interested in that.
    Just joining the chorus: yes, please, and thank you

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verizal View Post
    I do realize that this may throw off some of the tracking that has already been done, so I am not opposed to the idea of releasing a list of all of the potential drops and their respective spaces if people are interested in that.
    full loot list from dev?
    we are dreaming for that all the time
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    I know the hate will come for saying this but I love not knowing where the loot is....yet.

    I actually can get people motivated to run tons of different content right now since it's a surprise what will drop at the end of a lost temple run, or an SG run, or a BG raid. I'm enjoying the heck out of the surprise. Once that lootlist drops, all i'm going to hear is "I would like to run annuminas because it has this bracelet" for maybe hunters, and rks will say "please can we do Dale for the shoulder piece?". And if I broadcast something besides these two things I am worried I will never get any more hunters or rks etc. Oh well, it's probably the new car smell wearing off on me.
    I kind of like this too. Ran sammy as my first instance and was surprised to find new loot along with the rest of my group. I feel like I want to explore more as well, or else every single champ will want to run (what was it last time, warg pens?) for the ring or something like that. Kills diversity of instances.
    Although I would not mind if they released a list say, a month or so from now

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    I know the hate will come for saying this but I love not knowing where the loot is....yet.

    I actually can get people motivated to run tons of different content right now since it's a surprise what will drop at the end of a lost temple run, or an SG run, or a BG raid. I'm enjoying the heck out of the surprise. Once that lootlist drops, all i'm going to hear is "I would like to run annuminas because it has this bracelet" for maybe hunters, and rks will say "please can we do Dale for the shoulder piece?". And if I broadcast something besides these two things I am worried I will never get any more hunters or rks etc. Oh well, it's probably the new car smell wearing off on me.
    If we were dealing with new content, I would agree with you (and on that token, if they want to keep the lootlist for BBs under wraps I would be fine with it). But Skraids and scaled instances have been out for so long. From what I've seen so far, the majority of players don't want to 'take the risk' of running a longer scaled instance on the off chance it has a drop they would use. They'd rather just run the shortest, easiest content since they know what they'll get (marks/meds/seals/etc). Once a group runs something less popular or common and discovers something worthwhile for loot, there is a rush of people to run it that heard about that loot, and then interest fades again until some new loot is discovered. The people who want to do something different will tend to do it regardless of the rewards, while those looking only to gear up will generally only be motivated by knowing that what they're running will drop what they want.

    IMO releasing a loot list will get more people running more varied content sooner, rather than Thadur (you are aware thadur challenge mode is still dropping seals, right?) being farmed to death until the more enterprising players have put together a lootlist manually.
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  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    I know the hate will come for saying this but I love not knowing where the loot is....yet.

    I actually can get people motivated to run tons of different content right now since it's a surprise what will drop at the end of a lost temple run, or an SG run, or a BG raid. I'm enjoying the heck out of the surprise. Once that lootlist drops, all i'm going to hear is "I would like to run annuminas because it has this bracelet" for maybe hunters, and rks will say "please can we do Dale for the shoulder piece?". And if I broadcast something besides these two things I am worried I will never get any more hunters or rks etc. Oh well, it's probably the new car smell wearing off on me.
    Finding out what drops where was fun when the instances were initially released and also with U10 but doing it all over again is just tedious, especially as most have done scaled instances to death over the last year I would prefer if a list is just posted. Another advantage of posting the list is that it will mean we can give feedback on if things are WAI.

  9. #34
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    Forgive me for using this thread for a few words about loot in general - hopefully devs will see it:

    Has it been critisised just yet that tactical classes get way more vita than they want or need with the new items? We cap tact. mitigation at 40% and overcap that stat by far since we also get a lot of tact. mitig. out of will. That makes Vita less attractive for tact. classes than for the other ones. Which makes the balancing of the new loot pretty unfair. Actually we, as light armour classes, should have the choice at least between vita and fate as secondary stat. And if it has to be about morale max then give us just pure morale max on several items, (not aside but) instead of vitality. Maybe any class should have more choices. It gets pretty boring to have half of the stats of all the items completely identical. If you devs got time, please think that over one more time.

    I do appreciate the fact to have new loot in the instances a lot - it would have felt unpretty to farm old loot with just higher stats all over again. Also I like the fact to get a safe teal item out of a challenge mode (nothing more frustrating than running fornost instances 30-40 times without ever seeing a teal item). But these good news can't hide the fact that itemization has never been as boring as with Helm's deep - two identical stats for each item, two variables. I'm not sure what's more boring: To farm the old and - statwise - interesting loot again or the new very very simple stuff.

    Also please lower the drop-rate of teal loot for big battles. The high drop rate for gold and platinum lowers the value of any item in-game big time.

    As for the loot list:
    Well, I don't care that much. But it makes searching for loot less magical. Because ... yeah ... no searching at all if you know where to find what.
    Last edited by GithlithMonaghan; Dec 06 2013 at 01:42 PM.

  10. #35
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    yes we need a loot list to make sense of it all

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verizal View Post
    This will be changing for 12.1, however, as I am planning to go through all of the loot and restrict all of the 'shared' pieces to the same instances for all classes. Meaning that ultimately, you should not see a single piece in more than two instances, regardless of your class.

    I do realize that this may throw off some of the tracking that has already been done, so I am not opposed to the idea of releasing a list of all of the potential drops and their respective spaces if people are interested in that.
    The release notes for 12.1 suggest you'll be continuing with the plan to post the list. Looking forward to it!
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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    Forgive me for using this thread for a few words about loot in general - hopefully devs will see it:

    Has it been critisised just yet that tactical classes get way more vita than they want or need with the new items? We cap tact. mitigation at 40% and overcap that stat by far since we also get a lot of tact. mitig. out of will. That makes Vita less attractive for tact. classes than for the other ones. Which makes the balancing of the new loot pretty unfair. Actually we, as light armour classes, should have the choice at least between vita and fate as secondary stat. And if it has to be about morale max then give us just pure morale max on several items, (not aside but) instead of vitality. Maybe any class should have more choices. It gets pretty boring to have half of the stats of all the items completely identical. If you devs got time, please think that over one more time.

    I do appreciate the fact to have new loot in the instances a lot - it would have felt unpretty to farm old loot with just higher stats all over again. Also I like the fact to get a safe teal item out of a challenge mode (nothing more frustrating than running fornost instances 30-40 times without ever seeing a teal item). But these good news can't hide the fact that itemization has never been as boring as with Helm's deep - two identical stats for each item, two variables. I'm not sure what's more boring: To farm the old and - statwise - interesting loot again or the new very very simple stuff.

    Also please lower the drop-rate of teal loot for big battles. The high drop rate for gold and platinum lowers the value of any item in-game big time.

    As for the loot list:
    Well, I don't care that much. But it makes searching for loot less magical. Because ... yeah ... no searching at all if you know where to find what.
    I can't speak for heavies, but my warden caps tactical and physical mits with largely purple quality Agility focused items (so most items "only" have 155 to vit). Your concern is far from a tactical specific one.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verizal View Post
    I do realize that this may throw off some of the tracking that has already been done, so I am not opposed to the idea of releasing a list of all of the potential drops and their respective spaces if people are interested in that.
    How's this even a question?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gottapee View Post
    How's this even a question?
    What question? Look at the name. He is a blue. He tells us and we go.. "Yes Sirrah" err... "Yes Sir".

    All we can do is beg him to please release the loot lists, so we can jump him every time something not on the list comes out of the wrong instance.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I can't speak for heavies, but my warden caps tactical and physical mits with largely purple quality Agility focused items (so most items "only" have 155 to vit). Your concern is far from a tactical specific one.
    Yeah I figured that any class would overcap these stats easily. But still the other classes need a bit more to do so. I got the double amount tact. mit. of what I would need to cap it unbuffed. That's bloody crazy. Of course I'm overcapping physical too. It's no fun to be forced into stats you don't want nor have much use for :P
    Last edited by GithlithMonaghan; Dec 07 2013 at 07:08 AM.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    Yeah I figured that any class would overcap these stats easily. But still the other classes need a bit more to do so. I got the double amount tact. mit. of what I would need to cap it unbuffed. That's bloody crazy. Of course I'm overcapping physical too. It's no fun to be forced into stats you don't want nor have much use for :P
    I've been saying in Beta already that this new scheme will turn everyone into a semi-tank with very little variation in stats (compared to state in RoR). But I think this is intentional so for future content they mostly know what stats people will have. It's easier to design content if you can plan for everyone to have about the same morale, mitigations and dps compared to dealing with differences of factor 2-4 in RoR and RoI. Also simplifies itemization if two stats are auto-determined. And to make sure everyone uses the new scheme the item-level was raised to irrational values.
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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    I've been saying in Beta already that this new scheme will turn everyone into a semi-tank with very little variation in stats (compared to state in RoR). But I think this is intentional so for future content they mostly know what stats people will have. It's easier to design content if you can plan for everyone to have about the same morale, mitigations and dps compared to dealing with differences of factor 2-4 in RoR and RoI. Also simplifies itemization if two stats are auto-determined. And to make sure everyone uses the new scheme the item-level was raised to irrational values.
    So we're being forced into a bad loot system because the Dev's cannot or will not do something they have always done in the past (balance content around a wide variety of build options)?

    I for one hope you JWB is given the time to develop something worth running for reasons beyond loot this expansion, or at least re-balance what we have now so it isn't complete junk, and that Verizal sees how thoroughly he's removed choice from gearing and further exacerbated already significant instance problems by implementing these stat explosions.
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  18. #43
    I actually think they chose for this new system with similar stats as a way to make it easier to balance the trait trees. I assume after these changes are done (which I expect doesn't happen before the next expansion, or at least the major update before it), there will be more variety in stats again. But indeed, the RoR stat system was much better than the one we have now.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post

    I for one hope you JWB is given the time to develop something worth running for reasons beyond loot this expansion, or at least re-balance what we have now so it isn't complete junk, and that Verizal sees how thoroughly he's removed choice from gearing and further exacerbated already significant instance problems by implementing these stat explosions.
    Big Battles are HD "raids". Even though since HD launch I saw a total of ONE 12 BB raid advertised, I guess Turbine finds them as successful and engaging as ever...

    And since you are not playing YOUR Warden in there, doesn't really matter what stats and mits he has.

    The only thing left is PvP I guess.
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    Big Battles are HD "raids". Even though since HD launch I saw a total of ONE 12 BB raid advertised, I guess Turbine finds them as successful and engaging as ever...

    And since you are not playing YOUR Warden in there, doesn't really matter what stats and mits he has.

    The only thing left is PvP I guess.
    I do the occasional BB if a kinnie wants a duo partner, or if I'm bored and the Moors are empty. Its usually enough of a reminder to keep me from doing another one for a while, but I have a fair amount of time in them.

    A real raid would be fantastic, but I'd take a legitimate 3-man on par with Webs of Scuttledells before the U10 instance damage nerf at this point. ANYTHING that makes me actually have to think and put effort it.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    So we're being forced into a bad loot system because the Dev's cannot or will not do something they have always done in the past (balance content around a wide variety of build options)?
    Same thought ocurred to me. I certainly do hope that this ridiculous loot is just for the time until the new class-balancing is working well. I understand that some things should be made a bit easier in order to balance classes well. But this can't be the future of lotro-loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I for one hope you JWB is given the time to develop something worth running for reasons beyond loot this expansion, or at least re-balance what we have now so it isn't complete junk, and that Verizal sees how thoroughly he's removed choice from gearing and further exacerbated already significant instance problems by implementing these stat explosions.
    Hmm. Well, first step would be to at least make loot attractive. Of course it would be nice to get a reason for playing beyond loot. But let's take it step by step. It is unfortunate how loot design turned from very attractive at the end of east emnet to very boring in west emnet.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    Big Battles are HD "raids". Even though since HD launch I saw a total of ONE 12 BB raid advertised, I guess Turbine finds them as successful and engaging as ever...
    Hehe, what's the point in raiding, when all you might be interested in is easier to get playing the same content as duo. 12-man-raids in HD are pretty bloody difficult. That might be a good thing. But there's nothing to get out of there that makes your efforts worth while. It's about the same story as with the Erebor-T2-cm-raids. Only worse.
    Last edited by GithlithMonaghan; Dec 07 2013 at 03:06 PM.

  22. #47
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    I like to know if a PvE Set comes with 12.1 or not?
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  23. #48
    Has anyone seen a teal LM sword drop yet? I've gotten like 30 purples so jw if there not in game or if im just my lucky old self.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayaria1988 View Post
    I like to know if a PvE Set comes with 12.1 or not?
    there will not be any PvE armour sets in 12.1
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  25. #50
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    So there's a good chance I may just end up making a general post about itemization for Helm's Deep, but for the time being I'll see what I can do to explain some of the decisions that were made that have been brought up here.

    So first off, changes were made to the scaling instance loot and, per the requests of most of you, I will be compiling a list of all available gear that will be released on the forums a bit closer to the launch of 12.1

    Regarding these changes, I re-organized all of the incomparable loot drops in an attempt to pair off as much of the gear as I could so that if an instance were to drop, say, a will-based trinket, it would drop there for Lore-masters, Minstrels, and Rune-keepers, rather than there for Lore-masters, another instance for Minstrels, and another instance for Rune-keepers. This will help a bit with tracking, and should cut down on the randomness on Challenge Chests, which should now be functional, and will include a pull from all possible drops from its respective instance. With this re-organization, a drop should typically never be seen in more than two instances. There will, however, be a few exceptions for classes that are unable to use off-hands or shields, as they do not have quite as large of an overall pool to pull from, and will see a couple pieces appear in three instances.

    From there I suppose I can address the issue of non-unique loot. Basically, what this decision boiled down to, was how many pieces of gear I felt would be adequate for instances. Yes, it would have been possible to restrict particular drops to particular instances, but doing so would have left very limited loot options, leaving some classes with 0-1 drops per instance. I felt that the current system was a much better option, and would at least provide most instances with an equal chance of being run.

    When it comes to the new gear stat-ings, I have a few reasons behind the decisions that were made, so I'll do my best to hit everything. So first off, the item level bump. My intention here was not to force everyone into taking the new gear, but to instead provide some worth to some of the lesser item rarities. I did not simply want players coming into the expansion with a full set of incomparables/epics, that would not be replaced until they came across a new set of incomparables/epics. Item rarity was initially implemented for a reason, and the main intention here was to create some sense of progression through the newly released gear.

    The big push behind the new stat groupings was largely from a standardization/progression standpoint. Yes, having large amounts of Might/Vitality on every piece of gear does make balancing things a bit easier, but the bigger reason behind this decision was the sense of growth. With previous set-ups, it was possible to get a new piece of gear of a higher item level, but still be unsure as to whether or not it was truly an upgrade due to fluctuations in stat offerings and magnitudes. To solve this, I implemented static values that correlated to class, role, and iLevel in order to provide that definite sense of progression.

    In regards to what stats are currently being offered on gear, a large part of that was driven again by standardization. I found it unfair that tanks had to itemize for nearly twice the amount of stats as a dps or healer, so I sought to close the gap by pulling some of the less integral stats from gear, and utilizing the newly implemented trait trees to account for any large holes. Mitigations for instance, are already increased by Might, Vitality, Will, and Armour. Sure, not all classes have access to all of these stats, but those that tend to benefit most from them do, and should have further access in their trait trees. Taking up further space on items seemed a bit overkill. When it came to Incoming Healing, I honestly was just not a huge fan of a stat-ing yourself largely so that another class could do their job better, especially when those other classes already have their own means of increasing their potency (tactical mastery). This, however, is another stat that can be found through traiting, which I feel is a much better home. And resistance, well, that isstill present. However, it has been moved primarily to PvMP, as its uses in PvE are/were very limited.

    The biggest thing to take into account with all of this, is that there is still a good deal of balancing to be done. You can expect adjustments to mob difficulty, damage and healing output, and stat caps to account for all of the changes, both itemization-related and not. As it stands, yes, many classes have little use for defensive stats, and many people aresitting on or near a number of stat caps. This will change, however, and my intent is to have you be at a point where you will need to make conscious decisions on what you wear in order to progress through some of the harder challenges in the game.

    On that note though, I'm going to stop, as I'm starting to lose train of thought. By all means though, feel free to comment, criticize, whatever, and I'll do my best to jump back in here and on the forums in general to address what I can.

    EDIT: Ah yes. PvE armour sets. No, they are not planned for 12.1, but yes, they will be coming in the future. Honestly, a large part of the reasoning here is that I wanted to make sure many of the other aspects of itemization were straightened away before providing access to a new set. For the time being there are the jewelry sets in Big Battles, which have their own set of requirements. I do not want to simply throw sets at you guys , however, and I worry that that's what may have happened if I tied them in with instances/raids at launch. There should be some sense of prestige with obtaining them, and that's what I am hoping to create in the future.
    Last edited by Verizal; Dec 09 2013 at 08:20 PM.

 

 
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