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Thread: DPS rotations

  1. #1
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    DPS rotations

    Has anyone managed to work out a series of good DPS rotations given the changes to the gambits (especially finishers)?

    I've found that 31/313/3131 gives consistantly high damage, with Spear of Virtue regularly hitting for 2.5-3k per attack with a Tier 3 DoT of 1.7-2.3k Morale (occasionally a double DoT). This is miles better than my Warden's Triumph, which now seems almost redundant.

    I'd be really interested in other people's current rotations, are people still using Adroit Manoeuvre-Warden's Triumph, what is the most efficient bleed rotation, which rotations are regularly doing the most damage?

  2. #2
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    Yes, still using adroit, but not WI as much. Was going to make a thread, but ill post it here... I am not aware if it was the case before, but the surety of death dmg over time legacy applies to all tier 3-4 light dmg dots, ie surety of death, spear of virtue AND desolation.

    So as far as dps rotations, priority is always keeping desolation and one t3 (SoD or SoV) on; both of which have potential to crit up to 8k each tick. I use SoV (and battle memory if) on larger morale pool mobs for the chance of applying the DoT twice, but SoD hits much harder initially so thats an all around dmg gambit. Ill always apply DoTs in descending tier, usually starting with desolation out of battle prep, 313 Ill use after the others, and 31 only if masteries are on cd for something better, but I still use goad in a more than 1 mob setting for battle memories that counts as a t1 dot over it.

    The bleed gambits at this point are a complete waste of time and masteries to build. If your light DoTs are up, the go to direct dmg gambits are maddening strike, wall of steel and dark before dawn. Ill try and have adroit on before I pop recklessness for deep burn.

    (the dmg numbers mentioned... I have almost 4k agi and maxed 95 SAs, but not maxed out relics)
    Ideal PVE DPS traits... Missing one point from class deeds, will use the last 2 for the 5th rank of +crit chance trait
    Last edited by Winter23; Nov 28 2013 at 06:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Into the Fray, or Assailment?

    I just bought the third trait tab yesterday and only just started playing around in yellow line, but it's very fun! I don't have any kind of rotation down for that yet, but since we get a -10% attack duration from the traits it actually felt a lot better than before when Assailment was just too slow for me.

    I have quested and played mostly with Into the Fray. Once I find a good mob to test on I'll try to lock down a solid rotation, as of now I just have some ideas. Even though the light DOTs hit hard, using a rotation purely of those hasn't given me the most DPS. WT, Desolation, then spear bleeds seemed to be a sweet spot. I'll try that Precise Blow line you mentioned. Unfortunately though I don't think we can take advantage of finishers in DPS because there's only 3 (that I have found) and they're in the Persevere, IF, and War Cry lines and none add extra damage.

    Thanks for those tips Winter23. I need to compare all the tooltips now as a lot of Gambits have overcome the ones I normally use. You really prefer Adroit Maneuver over Warden's Triumph? I feel like a constant +12% damage is huge. Have you found a good place to test?
    Last edited by thunderchickn; Nov 28 2013 at 11:17 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter23 View Post
    Yes, still using adroit, but not WI as much. Was going to make a thread, but ill post it here... I am not aware if it was the case before, but the surety of death dmg over time legacy applies to all tier 3-4 light dmg dots, ie surety of death, spear of virtue AND desolation.

    So as far as dps rotations, priority is always keeping desolation and one t3 (SoD or SoV) on; both of which have potential to crit up to 8k each tick. I use SoV (and battle memory if) on larger morale pool mobs for the chance of applying the DoT twice, but SoD hits much harder initially so thats an all around dmg gambit. Ill always apply DoTs in descending tier, usually starting with desolation out of battle prep, 313 Ill use after the others, and 31 only if masteries are on cd for something better, but I still use goad in a more than 1 mob setting for battle memories that counts as a t1 dot over it.

    The bleed gambits at this point are a complete waste of time and masteries to build. If your light DoTs are up, the go to direct dmg gambits are maddening strike, wall of steel and dark before dawn. Ill try and have adroit on before I pop recklessness for deep burn.

    (the dmg numbers mentioned... I have almost 4k agi and maxed 95 SAs, but not maxed out relics)
    Ideal PVE DPS traits... Missing one point from class deeds, will use the last 2 for the 5th rank of +crit chance trait
    Some good stuff here, I think you will find that even after they fix the bleed bug the power attack line is still worth it in a sustained dps scenario, though.

    Are you actually getting an extra gambit off by using Adroit in a rotation? In RoI/RoR when rotations were ~30 seconds it matched up perfectly with the adroit duration and I found I was able to consistently get an 'extra' gambit in in this time frame if I used AM. Now that rotations revolve around a 20 second timeframe you need to either use AM every 20 seconds, or use it every other time through a rotation and spend 10s without the buff at all. If using it every 20s; I've found with all of the rotations I've tried that do max dps, I can't get off an extra gambit. I'm having at best mixed results using it every 40s, but haven't found anything I think is truly worth it, especially since it requires a legacy slot that could go to another use.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Post

    guardian of the shrine lvl89 arch nemesis



    50% of my dmg was light oO

    my trait tree



    im using the blue traits to gain the +20% light dmg
    my gear is not very very good but decent
    i have 3500 agi and 20% critical and i miss the +light dmg legacy and i didnt have the +light dmg carvings and i have lvl95 second age weapons

    my rotation

    3(13)---->piercing strike
    (32)3(22)------>surety of death
    323(23)------>desolation
    12(33)----->power attack
    12(31)----->mighty blow
    (12)31(21)------>unnering strike
    and repeat
    Last edited by petaloudas00; Nov 29 2013 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #6
    So I took down all the tooltips and made a list. Warden's Triumph is really low on the list at less than half the DPS of the most damaging Gambit, Surety of Death. I had no traits in when I listed the damage values out, not that I expect it to be a perfectly accurate list it was just for quick reference to all the changes. I'm curious now if WT is even worth using, the +12% is great and all but I'm feeling that you could do more than that bonus gives by sticking with another Gambit like Maddening Strike or DbtD. That doesn't at all fit into the spirit of what a DPS Warden should be doing though IMO, so I hope they adjust that. WT should absolutely be doing more damage than a shield Gambit like MS for goodness sake.

    Also of note was that while SoD was the most damage of the tier 4 light bleeds, the 31 chain were better on the others even if you don't factor in the chance for an extra bleed. Spear of Virtue is actually not that far back from SoD, so I definitely agree with Winter23 that it's best to stick with the 31 chain on longer fights.

    The first few Gambits in the rough DPS list I made up were:
    Surety of Death
    Maddening Strike
    Spear of Virtue
    Dark Before Dawn
    Piercing Strike
    Wall of Steel
    Unerring Strike
    Desolation
    Onslaught
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  7. #7
    Solo the Moria turtle and just go full dps until you die. No buffs. Post your combat analysis

  8. #8
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    moria turtle


    and i actually killed her lol

  9. #9

  10. #10
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    your rotation?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Some good stuff here, I think you will find that even after they fix the bleed bug the power attack line is still worth it in a sustained dps scenario, though.

    Are you actually getting an extra gambit off by using Adroit in a rotation? In RoI/RoR when rotations were ~30 seconds it matched up perfectly with the adroit duration and I found I was able to consistently get an 'extra' gambit in in this time frame if I used AM. Now that rotations revolve around a 20 second timeframe you need to either use AM every 20 seconds, or use it every other time through a rotation and spend 10s without the buff at all. If using it every 20s; I've found with all of the rotations I've tried that do max dps, I can't get off an extra gambit. I'm having at best mixed results using it every 40s, but haven't found anything I think is truly worth it, especially since it requires a legacy slot that could go to another use.
    Do you think this will change (again) once the AD legacy works again?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    Do you think this will change (again) once the AD legacy works again?
    As a general concept, the more -attack duration you have, the more effective more of it becomes. If masteries did not exist even now Adroit would be worth it and with the legacy working it would become more important. The caveat to all of this is that at a certain attack speed for wardens, regular builder cooldowns become a problem if you are building a gambit that goes back and forth on the same 2 builders (Like Wall of Steel or Desolation) and waiting a split second on the builder cooldown effectively negates advantages gained from attack duration. In the past I had figured out rotations that mostly avoided this, but I haven't tried to figure it out on a 20s rotation yet.

    While I'm not completely happy with the rotation right now, I can get out t2, t3, t4 light dots, the power attack line, and 1 gambit in under 20s, and if I extend to ~21s can get out a second non-DoT gambit. I haven't found a good way to reliably test rotations outside of the Bullroarer yet, since the new turtle hits too hard for my current gear/morale pool to survive as long as I need, the old turtle has locks if you kill it, and dying between every parse is pretty ######, and any other mob dies before I get a full rotation test in. While I don't think the current trend of light DoTs VASTLY outperforming bleeds is a great concept, the bleeds remain better than any other upfrotn damage possibility for a sustained damage situation. I think with the fixing of the into the fray attack duration legacy, getting the top 6 DoTs, WT, AM, and DbtD in ~21s will be both doable, and the best damage potential. As I said, I haven't been able to fully test things, but on paper WT is still VERY MUCH worth it, even though its +12% damage bonus doesn't actually equate to everything hitting 12% harder.

    Do the Isengard Gate trolls both aggro if you pull one, now that they are grey mobs? This might be our best option for testing now if they can be pulled seperately, or are hitting weak enough together.
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  13. #13
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    The trolls are linked, I'm afraid. But they did 100k dmg total on me in hybrid gear (49% phys mit), red build during a 7 min fight. And most of the damage was caused by my not removing the tiering corruption on them very often. So just bring any healer higher than lvl50 and he/she should be able to keep you alive just fine.
    Last edited by rannion; Nov 30 2013 at 08:39 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    The trolls are linked, I'm afraid. But they did 100k dmg total on me in hybrid gear (49% phys mit), red build during a 7 min fight. So just bring any healer higher than lvl50 and he/she should be able to keep you alive just fine.
    darn. I do have a decent number of landscape skirm soldier tokens from lootboxes, maybe when I get some marks I'll invest in a herbalist and try this out.
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  15. #15
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    Can a red or yellow or mix of both dps spec warden hold its own dps wise as a group role when compared to other dps classes?
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel230 View Post
    Can a red or yellow or mix of both dps spec warden hold its own dps wise as a group role when compared to other dps classes?
    I haven't done a ton of it, but I don't see an assailment warden being competitive with primary dps classes. I'm not entirely familiar with what kinda of figures hunters/burgs/rks are doing in extended parses, so its hard to say without knowing that. AoE dps has been improved, but I can say quite confidently we can't hold a candle to a yellow champ.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I haven't done a ton of it, but I don't see an assailment warden being competitive with primary dps classes. I'm not entirely familiar with what kinda of figures hunters/burgs/rks are doing in extended parses, so its hard to say without knowing that. AoE dps has been improved, but I can say quite confidently we can't hold a candle to a yellow champ.
    This is my impression of assailment as well. Part of that at least is due to bugs, the worst of which is 'Spear Gambit + x%' boosts no longer applying to anything assailment. Since we have a 10% legacy for that, 6% trait (layer 3 recklessness, but that's reachable), and BB set jewelry giving another 10%, that's 26% damage that the hardest hitting assailment gambits are not getting.

    Judging by the various threads here, Recklessness seems to be in pretty good shape despite the -AD legacy also not working.
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