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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Are you satisfied with Helm's Deep expansion?

    It's been 8 days after release and many players have actually hit lv95 and completed big battles.

    So I wonder did HD gave you sense of satisfaction?

    Are you happy with it? Was it boring , enjoyable or just too easy? You disappointed?

    My opinion:

    Lets go with positive things

    + Beautiful landscape - best so far esp Eastfold. Helm's deep look is captured nicely.
    + Class trait system overhaul / some minor improvements in PVE ( craftin,travel, etc )
    + I feel so small in big battles!!! ( only thing )
    + Middle-earth feels more alive

    Bonus update

    -Decent Music imo ( bad to many )
    -Class trait revamp , again many do not like it

    Negative

    - Ultra easy difficulty overall - No challenge at all.
    - Big battles are boring and not exciting - Yea go AFK, Don't die. After 20 min Battle won! Woho!
    - Completely broken PVMP / Lack of new gear for freeps.Creeps feel ilke they need skill revamp , too little CD , esp BA.
    - Lack of new instances/raids - Not cool.
    - Mounted combat is joke and dull ( 1 shooting mobs )
    - HD performance overall ( freezes,crashes,lag,skill delay , worst so far ) horrible FPS drop even on high end machines 16 -30 FPS. Almost non believable.
    - Some items at STORE F example Gift of Valar lvl 50 instant.
    - Seal grind for new gear - Ridiculous 1 piece 188 seals. 1 instance 7 seals.
    - Missing quests and npcs
    -"Tiresome" and boring re-grinding of past now old instances like SG,GB etc..



    Final score: 4/10 Bad. And I was been generous.

    Weakest expansion yet.

    What about you?

    And yes this is semi- Q_Q thread coming from older player since It's shame how

    Game went so low...I had high expectations with Helm's Deep but more I played it more disappointment it build.

    Sigh.

    Premium forever.
    Last edited by Melunielsigh; Nov 28 2013 at 02:10 AM.

  2. #2
    What Big Battles is everyone running where you can go afk for 20 minutes and still get rewards or not die? I mean seriously some people are really over exaggerating or I am playing a different game. If you do get a reward while afk it is probably a useless Iron or #### Bronze medal.

    Anyways am I happy

    Yes.

    Landscape is amazing
    Quest: Most are engaging some or boring
    Mobs: Meh.. little to easy for me but i expect a dps nerf somewhere down the line
    Epic Battles: Some are buggy but I still enjoy them. They are not the typical stand there and fight type system. To get the good rewards you actually have to do other things such as repair stuff and issue commands. Took some time to get used to but since I have reached rank 3 on my officer ad engineer lines man things are amazing.
    PvP: Yeah the armor is needed... and yes creeps do need more than what they got.. especially if they dont nerf the dps
    No Instances: Doesnt bother me that there aren;t any classic style stand there and kill things raids. I like the Epic Battles system and see it potential.
    The Seal Grind: Again makes you want too work. Classic raids and Skirmish raids give seals. If they were being given out like candy people would be crying they had all the phat loots already and had nothing to do. So Turbine is caught between 6 rocks and 7 Hard Places with that. Also ALL of that gear drops in Epic Battles with platinum Rewards, so you honestly don;t need to grind the seals. It boils down to a choose your poison. Run the battles and get better for better rewards, or grind the seals.
    Performance Issues: Well, like every previous expansion I think they will die down within the next week or 2. Servers are overloaded with people playing and will calm down shortly. I have not had any major issues thank god, but I also lowered my graphics expecting this.
    Store Items: Do I like the Auto level thing... Not really but I can see the need for it, and hey if other people want to waste money.. why should I stop them. It is not effecting me if they do.
    Mounted Combat: I am 50/50 on this. Some days I love it, others im like meh.

    So overall lets see

    I will give my personal rating on each expansion
    Mines of Moria: 8.5
    Siege of mirkwood: 6.5
    Rise of isengard: 7.0
    Riders of Rohan: 7.5
    Helms Deep: 7.5
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Me: Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    Other forum members: You want it... do the content
    Me: Yeah I see your point
    Other forum members: Please add trait points to the store and more valor options so we dont have to run content
    Me: O.o ... Seriously?

    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  3. #3
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    I agree, weakest xpack yet. I played for a couple hours since launch but haven't logged back on since Saturday. It's too easy and it's boring. Landscape is nice but it's not enough to keep me around.

    My ratings...

    Trait trees: 3/10
    ezmode: 1/10
    Landscape: 8/10
    Big Battles: 1/10 (I truly hate that this is our new end game)

    Overall: 2/10

    I'm going to shelve this one to see what adjustments are made in the coming months. In the meantime I'm directing my cash to another game. I'm extremely grateful that I didn't actually pay for this xpack, thanks to my lifetime TP allowance.

  4. #4
    Overall and in the long-term I would have to say no. Big Skirmishes are already getting old and unfortunately I can't see myself getting more interested in this mini-game system as time goes on. The environment and landscapes were nice but not something I'm going to spend a lot of time riding around and around. This leaves me with playing my creep out in the Moors and given freeps at the moment are being very cowardly due to poor management of this system, this is non-existent.

    Something I also want to touch on as well is Turbines greed regarding the pricing of the expansion. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't have split it up into segments as in previous expansions, except for the fact they wanted to milk the greatest possible amount from unsuspecting customers. The quest pack and big battles could have been separated with the epic story still being provided for free-to-play. Turbine's statement that the epic story had to have been tied into it all is complete rubbish. The only part where it even came close to being true was at the very end of the questing line where you were forced into it and anything interesting that you actually saw storywise happened outside of the battles anyway. I'm afraid this is just another example of Turbine spinning things way past the point of integrity to rake in and is leaving me with an increasingly sour taste in my mouth.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2012
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    I'd say that HD is really fully of nice ideas but ruined by rushing and unfinished product to the market.
    - Trait trees are not bad by definition but there are too many filler traits, misplaced traits, plain buggy traits, broken balance between the trees (f.e. champion in AoE tree has comparable single target damage to the single-target burst damage oriented tree).
    - Trait trees and skillbars... No comment required I think.
    - Balance is totally broken - all classes do way too high damage vs. landscape mobs, I hear some people do raids with 6 toons, balance between classes is broken
    - PvMP - balance broken, some bugs allow some classes to exploit beyond imagination, missing L95 PvP armour for freeps
    - bugs in crafting (missing processing options for some professions, missing new icons, etc.)
    - Epic Battles: Vanguard tree is useless, some classes can't effectively dps vs. mobs. Some EB are very hard, some may be finished by launchincg and going afk. Lots of bugs in behaviour of the mobs. Missing maps for EB. Side quests are buggy, when you encounter the quests for the first time it's sometimes totally unclear where to go and what to do.

    All the things I wrote above is result of rushing HD. All these things could be fixed in a 2 or 3 months period. Reception would be so much different if HD were be delivered as more polished product. Of course there are always bugs hidden out there, which are discovered only when thousands of people start to use the software. But majority of things I've written above were reported in various beta stages (some were reported in beta 1 and ignored!). Decision of releasing software is always hard, but if the list of critical/important issues is long there should not be other decision than delay.
    For me HD is an expansion of wasted potential. There is so much hard work of developers/artists/designers wasted just because the management decided to rush the product. It makes me really sad, cause a lot of things imagined in HD are great. Beautiful, tasteful graphics. General concept of EB is great, side quests are cool (if you finally catch up what to do any no bug hits you). Really, really sad. I hope they catch up with fixpacks to the state in which HD should be released, but some bad taste in my mouth will remain.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e000000294a24/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #6
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    well what about this !!!!

    I am a vip have for about 3-4 years
    now I have paid for a lot expansions in the past and was happy to do so, but for the lack funds I though I get it after xmas (kids first and all). But to my astonishment, I found I can't do any epics or even lvl my skrim soldier traits until I by the pack I feel quite ripped off. When I have seeing from the other expansion... f2p are able to do quests, epics the only thing they couldn't do was the new instances as a vip im feel very ripped off there should something for us vip even if didn't get expansion we are still paying....

    the trait system would being fine if I could find my skills but everytime I change it they move to other places it takes time to find it and im killed or half dead before I find it I don't like my skills everywhere in slot bars i lock then into place I like to know where are and they are in groups it doesn't happen like that so ive had to or should I say relearn it all again
    Inspiring those around you to achieve greater good.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy73 View Post
    I am a vip have for about 3-4 years
    now I have paid for a lot expansions in the past and was happy to do so, but for the lack funds I though I get it after xmas (kids first and all). But to my astonishment, I found I can't do any epics or even lvl my skrim soldier traits until I by the pack I feel quite ripped off. When I have seeing from the other expansion... f2p are able to do quests, epics the only thing they couldn't do was the new instances as a vip im feel very ripped off there should something for us vip even if didn't get expansion we are still paying....

    the trait system would being fine if I could find my skills but everytime I change it they move to other places it takes time to find it and im killed or half dead before I find it I don't like my skills everywhere in slot bars i lock then into place I like to know where are and they are in groups it doesn't happen like that so ive had to or should I say relearn it all again
    Just wondering how many threads you are going to copy and paste this into? I have no issue with what you wish to say - your post and all- but some new points would be nice to see.
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000002be0/01008/signature.png]Eladrath[/charsig]

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skigorn View Post
    Landscape: 8/10
    I don't get all this love for the Helms Deep Landscape. I respect your right to have an opinion but I can only assume most people think "Oh pretty!" without thinking too hard about it. I picture Rohan as mostly open grassland and savanna with stretches of prairie-like farmland in the more temperate regions. Any town with plenty of horses riding through it will not look like a giant herb garden or lavender hillside. I was fearful that one quest in Aldburg might be a "mow the grass" epic.

  9. #9
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    I have just entered so I will just tell what I've seen so far. I just made it through to Eastwade where I've done a few quests. Eastwade looks amazing. I actually stopped questing just to walk around and sight see. There are horses grazing and walking, and the npcs are actually doing things like the laundry. It really feels alive. Who ever did the landscaping did an awesome job. Great artwork.

    On a gameplay note, I was fighting one of the mounted Blackarrows and he kept spinning in circles as I was attacking.

    I haven't done the Helm's Deep instance so I'll leave that for other people to talk about.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  10. #10
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    I'm still waiting back from Turbine on my request for a full refund before I contact my credit card and do it that way.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldumDown View Post
    I don't get all this love for the Helms Deep Landscape. I respect your right to have an opinion but I can only assume most people think "Oh pretty!" without thinking too hard about it. I picture Rohan as mostly open grassland and savanna with stretches of prairie-like farmland in the more temperate regions. Any town with plenty of horses riding through it will not look like a giant herb garden or lavender hillside. I was fearful that one quest in Aldburg might be a "mow the grass" epic.
    You're right, I'm referring to the general design versus landscape. Landscape itself (that i was exposed to) is not much different than the RoR landscape, and I didn't see much on my trek to Edoras as I followed the epic. I'm referring to the tombs prior to entering Edoras, Edoras is decent and I like Meduseld. I'm (perhaps easily) impressed with the smaller details.

  12. #12
    I will quote you point by point to follow the same schema. But in general we seem to have opposite tastes:
    Quote Originally Posted by Melunielsigh View Post
    + Beautiful landscape - best so far esp Eastfold. Helm's deep look is captured nicely.
    I agree.
    + Class trait system overhaul / some minor improvements in PVE ( craftin,travel, etc )
    Disagree. The trait trees are strait jackets. It doesnt give you choice. You cannot choose between mastering some specific tasks, or have a broad-although-not-expert skillset, like in real life (or most RPGs).
    Instead it let's you choose between Oversuperhypemega-master one brach, or... nothing. They could as well remove the trees and replace it with a toggle with tree values: red, yellow and blue.
    + I feel so small in big battles!!! ( only thing )
    + Middle-earth feels more alive
    I agree. The quests tell stories with more soul. The world seems lived in. I am caring about the NPCs. First time since for me since 2008.
    Bonus update

    -Decent Music imo ( bad to many )
    The music is the blandest in the whole game. In Riders of Rohan the music talked about action, riding charges, chants about the eorlingas, something is about to happen and it's gaining speed! And it was unique and distinctive. You can listen to any theme of it and it says "Rohan".
    The music in Helms Deep is interchangeable, generic and out of place most of the time. A big war is coming, the end of the world for the peoples of these lands, people are having to flee their homes, the enemies are abroad... and still the music is like one they would put on a spa. I wish they replaced it with the same themes from east rohan.
    -Class trait revamp , again many do not like it
    Good intention, bad design.
    It looks clearly to me that two absolutely different teams worked on the Class Trait Trees and the Epic Battles Promotion Trees. While the Promotion Trees seem to me like a work of art and brilliant design, the Class Trees are like a bunch of vandals with machetes hacking their way into a museum and calling it art.
    Negative

    - Ultra easy difficulty overall - No challenge at all.
    Agree. DPS is out of whack. Healing is out of whack.

    - Big battles are boring and not exciting - Yea go AFK, Don't die. After 20 min Battle won! Woho!
    100% disagree. They are new, buggy and require balance and polish. Other than that. They feel to me like the most innovative and brilliant system ever developed in this game. Both technically, progression-wise, regarding to lore, and regarding accesibility, teamplay and scope. Fix the bugs, add more sizes and you'll have my 10.

    - Completely broken PVMP / Lack of new gear for freeps.Creeps feel ilke they need skill revamp , too little CD , esp BA.
    That's true. Although I have not interest on this.
    - Lack of new instances/raids - Not cool.
    Epic Battles are instances. Maybe not the kind of instances you were expecting.
    Personally, I have grown bored to tear of the old raiding formula. It has become stale for me after so many years and so many MMOs insisting on the same mechanics again and again. Not even if they would have come with 20 new raids it would be better for me, because they would be THE SAME. Trash mobs this, choreography that. Been there, done that.

    - Mounted combat is joke and dull ( 1 shooting mobs )
    Warbands aren't centainly soloable now. Although there is a glaring lack of consequence of fighting them. Nor their fighting is deep enough to gather anything else than a bunch of casual bystanders to collaborate to defeat them.
    The system requires deeper gameplay. Right now, it's just a bunch of unused possibilities.

    - HD performance overall ( freezes,crashes,lag,skill delay , worst so far ) horrible FPS drop even on high end machines 16 -30 FPS. Almost non believable.
    100% Agree.

    - Some items at STORE F example Gift of Valar lvl 50 instant.
    It doesn't affect me that someone soloing from 1 to 95 decides to pay a big amount of their money to skip soloing from 1 to 50, in the same sense that it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the movies if someone skips The Fellowship of the Ring and starts watching them from halfways The Two Towers on.
    And I don't see how someone else could possibly feel affected, either. Please, explain yourself. I'm truly interested.

    - Seal grind for new gear - Ridiculous 1 piece 188 seals. 1 instance 7 seals.
    Isn't that what instance runners like doing, anyway? Everyone runs the least resistance instance anyway, Sambrog. There is no cooldown and it's being farmed. If they do it again and again it's because they like that activity.
    So, why limiting their enjoyment to a few times only? Let them run it 25 times if that is what they like most.
    Or are they doing it for the fun of the instance itself? Then they shouldn't care about how many seals they get. They will eventually get their seals AS they have fun.
    Of course, this doesn't apply to those whose main enjoyment is rush to complete the gear set, then complain that they have nothing to do. But they do have at least half of the fun: they can complain how grindy it has become!

    - Missing quests and npcs
    -"Tiresome" and boring re-grinding of past now old instances like SG,GB etc..
    My client must be buggy. The instance finder isn't automatically launching me into those instances when I log in and forcing me to play them.
    In that case, I hope they never fix this bug in my client.


    Score:

    Innovation:
    New battle system, landscape quests with a soul at last!, trait trees (the intention is what matters in this point). 9/10

    Music:
    Bland, interchangeable, generic, out of place. 2/10

    Quantity/Price ratio:
    It has disappointed the raiders, the PvPers in the amount of content. Even if I don't personally like those aspects of the game, they are part of the customer base.
    For something costing $40 in the most basic edition (more if you pay with TP), I would expect the totally new content, without repetition to last no less than 40 hours.
    It isn't the case. If you have no alts, and you repeat the battles until you have half the amount of medals, it doesn't take even 1/4 of that time.
    3/10

    Polish:
    Unequal. Overall quite buggy. The client crashes. Some quests are uncompletable. However the landscape and interiors are top notch and a lot of attention to the detail can be seen everywhere (Éomer has even a toy gnome in his bedroom). It clearly shows that the landscape team has been polishing their work for much longer than the other systems have. I would give landscape a 9, but the other teams are under 5.
    4/10

    It gives an average of 4.5.
    I give 2 extra points for the equisite attention to the detail with the main quest, the voiceovers, the text writing (whoever has written Grima's dialog lines, they have nailed it), and above all, the courage of attempting something as new and technically unbelievable as the Epic Battles.
    I detract 1 point for the plain bad treatment to the beta testers during the Beta from some devs and the community team.

    Final 5.5, with possibility of improvement if bugs and polish are given their needed attention.

  13. #13
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    My Personal Review.

    With hardly a week under the new name of "The Lord of the Rings Online: Helm's Deep" I have experienced a number of game-changing points for me. From the epic battles to the class changes, from the Epic quests, to some of my closest friends logging off, with only a /tell with "Good bye," there is a lot to undertake. What a lot of people don't understand is that change takes getting used to, and we can't learn everything or do everything in only a week.

    So far though, here are my goods, bads, and uglys:

    The Good
    +Epic Battles are new for me. They fit the explanation of Helm's Deep, as the lore is written in Tolkien's words, they are challenging(That is, if you want good rewards), and they are something different than farming Sambrog and Ost Elendil all day.
    +The Epic Quests(this is kind of a subtopic)
    • They tie in with the landscape quests, something that hasn't really happened since Rise of Isengard.
    • They make you feel as if you are right in the story, as if you were there.
    • They are fun, they are different, and most of all they are new.

    +Landscape Quests: They are different, and change each time you turn one in... In a matter of minutes, I can go from killing 8 boars to raiding an orc camp.
    +New Landscape: Simply beautiful, all I will say.

    The Bad
    -The Class Changes... This isn't that I do not like them, rather they take some getting used to.
    -The Music... Seriously? This is what you use in the Shadow of Chance Thomas? Quite honestly, you should have gone with him again... This soundtrack is awful. Good thing I don't keep my "Music" volume up...

    The Ugly
    ~I have to be completely honest with you here. The only think I find to be ugly about this expansion is the reaction from the community. Day one, everyone was complaining about the class changes, saying they weren't even going to bother with them. One week later? They still refuse to budge. Once you've adjusted, and you read what each of the traits do, that's when you decide what specialization you want to use. It doesn't cost ANYTHING to open a trait line, look at the traits(actually READ what they do), click the button, and decide what you want to do.

    I fear that LoTRO's community is the only thing that is coming out bad, with Helm's Deep. MMORPGs are all about change, they are about keeping up with the competition, and whether you accept this fact or not, [B]All MMOs go through change/B], whether shortly after launch, once the game has matured, or once the game has reached it's downfall.

    I feel that those who despise the class changes, and refuse to even acknowledge them, could easily relearn their class.

    My review?
    Landscape= 9/10
    Quests=8.5/10
    Epics=7/10
    Class Changes=7.5/10
    Epic Battles=10/10
    The Music=0/10
    The Community=4/10

    Final Score=8/10(Decent, but could have been better if Turbine would have delayed it until late December.)

    Call me a fanboy if you want, but this is my opinion, and I plan to defend it.
    Last edited by robbie1435; Nov 28 2013 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Typos
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
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  14. #14
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    I have nothing against this expansion. I kinda think that the epic was rushed, but updates will come.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    The Ugly
    ~I have to be completely honest with you here. The only think I find to be ugly about this expansion is the reaction from the community. Day one, everyone was complaining about the class changes, saying they weren't even going to bother with them. One week later? They still refuse to budge. Once you've adjusted, and you read what each of the traits do, that's when you decide what specialization you want to use. It doesn't cost ANYTHING to open a trait line, look at the traits(actually READ what they do), click the button, and decide what you want to do.

    I fear that LoTRO's community is the only thing that is coming out bad, with Helm's Deep. MMORPGs are all about change, they are about keeping up with the competition, and whether you accept this fact or not, [B]All MMOs go through change/B], whether shortly after launch, once the game has matured, or once the game has reached it's downfall.

    I feel that those who despise the class changes, and refuse to even acknowledge them, could easily relearn their class.
    Why should they budge? why should they have to relearn their class? You need to get over the fact that people dont like the changes now, its getting tired. We get it your a little bit scared lotro is going to have problems because of the negativity surrounding the expansion and the class changes, but instead of waiting for people to budge or get over it, why not accept the fact that a lot of people dont like it, turbine got it wrong and things have to change or the game is going to suffer?

    As you said its been a week and still people are unhappy, they still dont like the class changes, they still dont like BBs or the easy mode landscape mobs, maybe just maybe its not the players thats the problem here its what they have been given to play with.

    You have no choice anymore but to listen to these people that are not happy, they are leaving and that is only going to hurt your game time in the end, check the steam graphs, sure they are not a definitive representation but there are 40% less people playing lotro on steam than on launch day, its been decreasing everyday since it went live.You can dress it up and argue all you like that is not a success, that is not good news.There is nothing on the internet saying anything good about HD, any gaming forums , any online magazine its all bad press. It has to change or no-one is going to come to the game to replace the people who are leaving.

    If you think criticising people on the forums for not budging or telling them the obvious to read their tool tips is going to change anyone's mind you are wrong, there are a lot of people who have tried them, they have tried to like them and the fact is they don't, telling them they are letting the community down is not going to make them suddenly like them and start playing and spending money again.

    No-one is saying they dont like change, they are saying they dont like THESE changes, had the trees been implemented better and not been so restrictive, there would not be this out cry, had BBs been made with the people who play tanks, healers and support classes in mind maybe they would find them interesting, had they been released finished instead of a buggy mess people might like them more, had the landscape not been 1 - 2 fest people may have enjoyed levelling more. But that isnt what they got , they got straight jacket style restrictive trees, Boring, DPS orientated big skirms, and faceroll landscape that requires no thought, thats why they are unhappy, thats why they are complaining and leaving and spending less money, and until you accept that and respect their thoughts and accept that things need to change for these people, they will keep complaining and keep leaving and all the people that keep telling them to get over it will suffer in the end.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    Why should they budge? why should they have to relearn their class? You need to get over the fact that people dont like the changes now, its getting tired.
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

    All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

    And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    No-one is saying they dont like change, they are saying they dont like THESE changes,
    Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

    A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

    All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

    And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.



    Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

    A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?


    Of course if I was at work I would change, its what puts food on my table and clothes on my kids backs, but this isnt work, its a game man and games fall waaaaaaay down my priority list,last time I checked it us that pay turbine for this game not the other way round, what a ridiculous point to make,and people have a choice, change or leave its not feasible to do that in a job, never mind the fact that if you are comparing a game, a pastime, to a job, then something has gone horribly wrong. Is that really how you see lotro? a chore? a job? something you have to do no matter what?


    Are you not reading the forums? people have tried them , there are hundreds of posts telling you exactly why they dont like them, what they find wrong with them, how can they do that if they haven't played them yet? All you want to do is try and label these people as whiners who are whining for whinings sake, you refuse to acknowledge they have genuine issues with the content, just because you played it and like it that doesn't mean everyone should see it the same as you, why is it so hard to grasp that people could play this , try it out, give it a chance and still detest it?
    Last edited by Andthelion; Nov 28 2013 at 08:11 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.
    Problem is that 12.1 should be initial release of HD. Launching product in such state as it was done by Turbine shows lack of respect to their customers.
    I'm really not against the HD itself (lots of cool ideas) but I'm against that the work on them was unfinished and in fact we're playing beta version of HD, at list until 12.1 released. There is a tolerance for bugs in MMOs, but Turbine has gone too far in my opinion.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e000000294a24/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

    All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

    And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.



    Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

    A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?
    This "ain't" my job.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

    All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

    And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.



    Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

    A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?
    (Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks. )


    ah...key word here, WORK..Im not here to Work, I'm here to play..and as far as logging out, have done so. When my fun starts to feel like work..its time to move on. I really hate to because Ive been here for years, but its starting to seem, not much fun.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.
    No, i wouldn't. If the changes were so drastic that it was like being in a different job i would look for a new job and hand my notice in once i had found one. If the job is no longer the job i applied for and enjoy then if i can find something else closer to what my job originally was then i would not want to stay in it any longer.

    Same applies to this game, the game is no longer anywhere close to the one i signed up for so i'm looking for a new game, if i have to relearn my character i might as well do it in a less tired and worn out game.
    [I][URL="http://www.swgrp.co.uk/main/socks/"]Wet Socks & Two Smoking Hobits: the mad ramblings of Handee Pokits[/URL][/I]

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

    All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

    Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

    And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.


    Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

    A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?
    1. This is a game and no one is being paid to play it. We are here for entertainment so there is no need to FORCE ourselves to do anything that we do not find enjoyable.
    2. Many players do not care to relearn a class they have been playing for years and they know inside and out. Many do not like the limitations that the talent trees impose.
    3. It might be a little presumptuous to assume that everyone who has expressed dislike of the talent trees did not spend time READING and comprehending the changes, simply because your friend did not.
    4. Not liking the talent tree is not synonymous with the ability to relearn you class. In most cases, it is simply a choice.

    I enjoy golf. If changes were made that FORCED me to play the back nine by using a baseball bat and teeing off of a kiddie t-ball tee, nothing anyone could say would convince me that I really SHOULD like it and that I COULD do it if I just gave it a try. My response would simply be that I chose not to.

    While it is great that many people like the changes, it is a waste of time to argue that others should like them as well. I think EVERY single person that has posted on this thread is aware that logging out and uninstalling is an option, but it was kind of you to point the way to the door. The point of expressing opinions on the forums is in hopes that TURBINE will listen to the player base and use the information as they plan for the future of the game.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    Why should they budge? why should they have to relearn their class? You need to get over the fact that people dont like the changes now, its getting tired. We get it your a little bit scared lotro is going to have problems because of the negativity surrounding the expansion and the class changes, but instead of waiting for people to budge or get over it, why not accept the fact that a lot of people dont like it, turbine got it wrong and things have to change or the game is going to suffer?

    As you said its been a week and still people are unhappy, they still dont like the class changes, they still dont like BBs or the easy mode landscape mobs, maybe just maybe its not the players thats the problem here its what they have been given to play with.

    You have no choice anymore but to listen to these people that are not happy, they are leaving and that is only going to hurt your game time in the end, check the steam graphs, sure they are not a definitive representation but there are 40% less people playing lotro on steam than on launch day, its been decreasing everyday since it went live.You can dress it up and argue all you like that is not a success, that is not good news.There is nothing on the internet saying anything good about HD, any gaming forums , any online magazine its all bad press. It has to change or no-one is going to come to the game to replace the people who are leaving.

    If you think criticising people on the forums for not budging or telling them the obvious to read their tool tips is going to change anyone's mind you are wrong, there are a lot of people who have tried them, they have tried to like them and the fact is they don't, telling them they are letting the community down is not going to make them suddenly like them and start playing and spending money again.

    No-one is saying they dont like change, they are saying they dont like THESE changes, had the trees been implemented better and not been so restrictive, there would not be this out cry, had BBs been made with the people who play tanks, healers and support classes in mind maybe they would find them interesting, had they been released finished instead of a buggy mess people might like them more, had the landscape not been 1 - 2 fest people may have enjoyed levelling more. But that isnt what they got , they got straight jacket style restrictive trees, Boring, DPS orientated big skirms, and faceroll landscape that requires no thought, thats why they are unhappy, thats why they are complaining and leaving and spending less money, and until you accept that and respect their thoughts and accept that things need to change for these people, they will keep complaining and keep leaving and all the people that keep telling them to get over it will suffer in the end.
    Sorry mate i am with him. I was on Beta and all i heard was "take this on live and you ll destroy the game blah blah blah". You dared try to say its a positive change and they where coming down to eat you. All i see now is constantly people online. I dont know if the expansion will be proved to be good or bad or if it will last. I know for a fact though that since launch there was no rage quit and no destruction cause of the class changes. In fact most people like it, i think.
    i think turbine got this round.
    As for the community he has a point. You have the right to cry,to complain, to ask for unreasonable refunds, but do it once. Some people try to attack viciously everything just to pass the irritation to everyone else about the changes. Thats not nice...
    On to other matters i havent yet buy the HD for personal reasons but i have played it on Beta so...

    Plus: Landscape 9/10 (And not 10/10 because the worst of better is best)
    Epic line: 8/10 Some more attention finaly with voices and all
    Quests 6/10 Not bad some where really good but some really used already and boring..
    Music: 2/10 You cant realease HD such a critical moment in middle earth history with that music... i am sorry.
    Trait system: 10/10 (Not because its perfect. It's not!! Because its new, its exciting and to my opinion what the game needed mostly even more than the expansion)
    House changes: so far 0/10
    Hobby: do we have a minus? -5/10? Abandoned
    War horses: 4/10
    Difficulty: 1/10 Non existant
    Big battles: ? be fair thats the only feature i havent tried very much so i wont give marks , but from the least i saw it seemed confusing and not ready.
    Farming: 0/10 Hell to the know. I gave up when Erebor came out. See where your thinking lies and i am not willing to support it
    Long term playability: Difficult to say. All depends of how big battles will be accepted in big groups and what comes next. If the result it is pretty much the same like erebors i ll think it will kill the game. Wait and see i gues.
    Marketing: 0/10 Annoying didnt help me or made me any interested. also felt a bit suspicious.
    Sapience patience: 10/10 enough said.

    Finally... Beta team: 7/10 There was really people who worked and helped tremendously cause i was in phase 1 and saw and the changes where fantastic. but the 3/10 missing goes to quite a group that came to see if they like the game and make it their work to propaganda the whole thing.

    Overall for me 5/10. if i have something to blame for a low score maybe it comes down to what resources you have to work on...
    Last edited by Pelethor; Dec 03 2013 at 09:03 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelethor View Post
    As for the community he has a point. You have the right to cry,to complain, to ask for unreasonable refunds, but do it once. Some people try to attack viciously everything just to pass the irritation to everyone else about the changes. Thats not nice...
    It works both ways. The same applies to all the posters who seem to trying to earn the title "Fanbois" with their attacking anyone who has dared to say that they don't like HD, the skill trees or anything else. Some players have quit, said why and been demonized. Others have stated what they think is wrong and been called 'Whiners' and 'Troublemakers', even 'Trolls'. I think it's about time Turbine did some proper policing of these forums and made EVERONE refrain from attacking anyone with a different opinion!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelethor View Post
    ... but the 3/10 missing goes to quite a group that came to see if they like the game and make it their work to propaganda the whole thing.
    Perhaps Turbine should have been more discerning as to who they invited to Beta rather than making beta keys generally available to anyone who wanted one? Given the numbers that were issued, you cannot blame those who were just curious to see what was going on.
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