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  1. #26
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    I myself saw a few defilers tanking a few freeps with a large amount of hots stacked. I think it was just the amount of dps that was going in on a target but he also linked some of his skills that were ticking for under a 1k sometimes so I'm not sure. To tell you the truth I'm not really sure about it at that point it was more the fact some folks were mad we just got wiped by 14 or so when it was just 7 of us fought them at the front of TA. I on the other hand was quite impressed with how well we held up until we got spread out, but it's whateves. That fight, granted some of the freeps were kinda lower ranked and didn't have the best gear I'm sure, gave me a slight glimmer of hope. The main thing I'm concerned about now is becoming as audacious as I can be cause the Rk rock cc yesterday was a little over the top. Didn't ever really notice the LM that was out last night, all I saw was that stupid rock.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    I've heard of crit defence. I'm not sure you have though. It doesn't work how you think it works. Crit defence reduces the magnitude of incoming crits. It does nothing about their frequency.
    For the first three months of RoR, and every expansion prior, crit defence reduced chance of incoming crits.

    Crit defence reducing magnitude is still a relatively "recent" change for this game, happening a year ago in U9.

    As far as I know, Vinner "quit the game" (we know that isn't true because he comes back to talk on these forums) at lvl 75 when they introduced audacity sets, and again as far as I know, the auto-stagger set came into being at the same time they introduced audacity? That's a full year of Vinner's logic being true, to be fair to him.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    You're right, it's very simple math. You don't seem to know how to do it though. Its a 25% chance, yes, but you're completely ignoring the fact that you have 5 attempts to hit that before the debuff runs out.

    I'm not using the stagger set. I'm actually not using any audacity right now. Given that the trade up is broken, I will probably get the CaB set first. I don't have a problem landing a stagger, I never have, but it seems like you may have if you think this set make it so easy now. The Sovereign Blade set does not make a guard "mechanically easy". Even if you don't need to get behind your target for stagger, you should still be trying to. Auto stagger set does not change the fact that you want to hit your opponents back as much as possible and give up your own as little as possible. That is a mechanic that will always be a thing for all melee classes in every game always.



    People think you were a good guard. I really wish you would stop coming here and spouting this BS about something that makes pretty little difference to actual play.

    It's simple math, and as bad as I am at math, I do in fact understand it. Logistically and rationally though, you are relying on a stat with RNG to land your staggers as opposed to actually trying to land it skillfully is what I'm trying to say. What happens if you don't land it in those 5 attempts? I'm not ignoring anything, but I prefer to rely on skill rather than luck/chance, which would maybe make you better if you took that route.

    I'm glad you're not using the stagger set. That's a testament to you, congratulations. <--- Statement not meant to sound sarcastic or condescending as it's not intended to be. The reason I have issues with the set though is because of the principle of the matter of it being available and being an old-time guard that was one of the few that could use stagger to my advantage over a lot of other guards that had trouble with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    I don't have a problem landing a stagger, I never have, but it seems like you may have if you think this set make it so easy now.
    Questioning my skill with the class is a laughable statement, as it contradicts the statement you wrote after this and you've seen me fight and do well. Not saying I was the best guard, but I could hold my own against anyone.

    I never have actually had trouble landing stagger like you falsely accuse me of, but if I recall from watching you fight and fighting you personally, you did. Do you mean you didn't have problems landing it when you stunned someone or relying on crit? If that's the case, you're right, as no one should have problems landing it then. Perhaps you have got better since then and can do it decently since then, though.

    Ok, so, if you land stagger from auto stagger, it makes it easier to land it behind the person because you didn't need to land it behind them to apply it to begin with. However, most people I've seen/played against still have trouble landing it again even when it's applied. So having a set that guarantees its application makes it mechanically easy. It's not hard to comprehend or you're unwilling to admit it. I hope you do well without auto stagger, because I don't wanna see you being a hypocrite and start using it if you don't do well. Doing well also means no cds unless having them popped against you, which you always seemed privy to doing against ppl that didn't use them.

    I'd really wish you'd stop spouting off bs of you thinking you know so much about guard in your limited experience playing it compared to someone that played extensively for a long time at a high lvl. For someone that's only played it for so long, you sure seem to think you know what you're talking about, it's cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    For the first three months of RoR, and every expansion prior, crit defence reduced chance of incoming crits.
    Crit defence reducing magnitude is still a relatively "recent" change for this game, happening a year ago in U9.

    As far as I know, Vinner "quit the game" (we know that isn't true because he comes back to talk on these forums) at lvl 75 when they introduced audacity sets, and again as far as I know, the auto-stagger set came into being at the same time they introduced audacity? That's a full year of Vinner's logic being true, to be fair to him.
    Yeah Swift, that's what I was thinking about before prior to the changes they made to it. It did used to reduce the chance of incoming crits, so if I wasn't so lazy and did some research, I would have stated what I should have stated. I had a feeling that was the change, but I didn't really care enough to check, so Bele actually managed to get something right against me for once .

    Yes, I did stop playing guard as soon as RoI audacity hit once I found out about that gear set.

    I appreciate the back-up, man. I'm just saying guard is mechanically easy compared to before now is all. For years, guards had to rely on their ability to land stagger, not get it handed to them on a silver platter to make it easier. My qualms with the class, hence why I moved to hunter. I quit the game, not the forums .
    Last edited by joshy8910; Dec 19 2013 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #29
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    Whether it is described as an exploit or not, I've noticed only one puppy using macros for now. cough* Lamul cough*

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucica View Post
    Whether it is described as an exploit or not, I've noticed only one puppy using macros for now. cough* Lamul cough*
    What does this have to do with anything?


    On another note: I have a new computer and will be in the moors more often now, so all I gotta say is hide your women and children cuz a overlord is gonna be on the battlefield.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyes2009 View Post
    What does this have to do with anything?
    If you have read thread title...and Monster play thread about it, you'd have noticed that macroing is popular in HD.
    Sadly,it has come to Gladden too. Lamul and Crimescene for now.

  7. #32
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucica View Post
    If you have read thread title...and Monster play thread about it, you'd have noticed that macroing is popular in HD.
    Sadly,it has come to Gladden too. Lamul and Crimescene for now.
    I just think there are more important things to complain about than this. Here are some examples:

    (1) Lack of new pvp map
    (2) Diminishing returns is broken (unless they changed it but I don't think they did)
    (3) No new skills on creep side = just add more morale creeps
    (4) Keeps just randomly flip

    Those to me are all more impact full on our moors experience than macros.

  9. #34
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    you got almost permaMT, be joyful. I lost half of my skills. and pvp armour is not as nearly good as pve one. and no 95 wound pots. nor 95 cloaks.

  10. #35
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    There are 95 pots, you just gotta craft 'em. It sucks, but that's all we got for now.

    Carry on.

  11. #36
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    I know, but it's lame. And very time consuming.
    I miss tracking stealth the most... being surrounded by warg pack and not know about it... When every creep class can track stealth, none of the freep classes can. Unless you buy trackers from store - also lame. And all that is just a small portion of it. Uh, they've ruined good pvp
    Yet, I'm masochist enough to go there every day

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucica View Post
    I know, but it's lame. And very time consuming.
    I miss tracking stealth the most... being surrounded by warg pack and not know about it... When every creep class can track stealth, none of the freep classes can. Unless you buy trackers from store - also lame. And all that is just a small portion of it. Uh, they've ruined good pvp
    Yet, I'm masochist enough to go there every day
    Godd pvp was gone long ago when they made freeps do insane amount of dps compared to creeps.

  13. #38
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyes2009 View Post
    Godd pvp was gone long ago when they made freeps do insane amount of dps compared to creeps.
    This argument is pretty irrelevant now. Given the relative morale pools and dps of the moors right now. I think Creeps come out on the better side of that equation.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    This argument is pretty irrelevant now. Given the relative morale pools and dps of the moors right now. I think Creeps come out on the better side of that equation.
    How is it irrelevant when freep dps is still overall op compared to creep dps? And if you are saying that creeps are better off than freeps overall, then I'm not sure what to say. Warden bleeds not being mitigated, rk fire damage, 5 pets being able to attack at once......I could go on, but will save my fingers from the typing. And the whole morale pool argument is pretty irrelevant as well because well all know why creeps get big morale pools is to offset the way over the top dps freeps do.

  16. #41
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    I had a reaver kill my guard in a little over 6 seconds, it's not uncommon for them to burst someone down in under 10. A high rank warg is probably not much outside 10 seconds to kill someone. My burg took a 13k impale the other day, which pretty much one shot me. I think a good VT crit could almost kill my burg if I was kept in combat while the dot ticked.

    Even the lower morale creep classes can have 3-4 times as much health as the freeps. At least right now, I don't think freeps are that far ahead in dps.


    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyes2009 View Post
    How is it irrelevant when creep dps is still overall op compared to freep dps? And if you are saying that freeps are better off than creeps overall, then I'm not sure what to say. Reavers with 70k morale, 10k+ impale/ds/vt crits, wargs with 40k+ morale and huge amounts of burst......I could go on, but will save my fingers from the typing. And the whole dps argument is pretty irrelevant as well because well all know why freeps get big dps is to offset the way over the top morale creeps have.
    FTFY



    (I should point out that I am slightly exaggerating here to make a point. I don't think creeps are overpowered per se, but to claim they are too weak is flat out wrong.)

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    I had a reaver kill my guard in a little over 6 seconds, it's not uncommon for them to burst someone down in under 10. A high rank warg is probably not much outside 10 seconds to kill someone. My burg took a 13k impale the other day, which pretty much one shot me. I think a good VT crit could almost kill my burg if I was kept in combat while the dot ticked.

    Even the lower morale creep classes can have 3-4 times as much health as the freeps. At least right now, I don't think freeps are that far ahead in dps.




    FTFY



    (I should point out that I am slightly exaggerating here to make a point. I don't think creeps are overpowered per se, but to claim they are too weak is flat out wrong.)
    I'm not saying that creeps are weak, just not as strong as freeps on the whole. There are plenty of freeps who hit harder than what you are describing fyi.

  18. #43
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    That 13k impale that I mentioned was about 85% of my burgs health. A freep would have to hit for about 40k to take the same relative amount from a creep. Like I said before, I don't think any freeps are hitting that hard yet.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    That 13k impale that I mentioned was about 85% of my burgs health. A freep would have to hit for about 40k to take the same relative amount from a creep. Like I said before, I don't think any freeps are hitting that hard yet.
    YET!! already have seen 30k+ hits from hunters on our server.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    ..Even the lower morale creep classes can have 3-4 times as much health as the freeps....
    LOL

    My warg and BA have 41-45k morale, hunters/minis are at 18-20k, guards/wardens at 20-25k, cappys ive seen upward of 29k. So, plz do some more freep maths for me!!

    Now take into account the dps difference and its still heavily in freeps favor.

  21. #46
    It's clear that some creep classes are OP 1v1. Reaver is a prime example. BA vs. any physical class is another. Warg vs. classes with low CC capability is another. However, given the fact that like 90% of the freeps are grouped when they're in the moors now, I don't think any of those are relevant examples.

    Group v group, freeps roflstomp creeps. You say a reaver can take out 85% of your health, but that's with all the bleeds up with a nice dev. I can two shot some wargs/defilers/BAs on my hunter with a lucky ISB-upshot combo, and he does not even have the 95 audacity set!

    Compare that: something two shotting you from stealth before you even know it, to something that has to have all four bleeds land, with a 4-5 second window to land that sweet dev. Throw in a couple freeps CC-ing and debuffing that reaver, and it gets ugly. Throw in a couple healers on that warg and... nothing happens. You can't recover from 55k hp lost in an instant. Lack of debuffs has always hurt creepside, and it's more evident than ever in this expansion.

    1v1, you can have VERY lopsided fights. VERY lopsided. That's something that has made me dislike this expansion's effect on PvP, and I'm very vocal about it. But group v group, even if it's as small as 3v3 or such, the advantage that freeps have over creeps becomes very noticeable.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    It's clear that some creep classes are OP 1v1. Reaver is a prime example. BA vs. any physical class is another. Warg vs. classes with low CC capability is another. However, given the fact that like 90% of the freeps are grouped when they're in the moors now, I don't think any of those are relevant examples.

    Group v group, freeps roflstomp creeps. You say a reaver can take out 85% of your health, but that's with all the bleeds up with a nice dev. I can two shot some wargs/defilers/BAs on my hunter with a lucky ISB-upshot combo, and he does not even have the 95 audacity set!

    Compare that: something two shotting you from stealth before you even know it, to something that has to have all four bleeds land, with a 4-5 second window to land that sweet dev. Throw in a couple freeps CC-ing and debuffing that reaver, and it gets ugly. Throw in a couple healers on that warg and... nothing happens. You can't recover from 55k hp lost in an instant. Lack of debuffs has always hurt creepside, and it's more evident than ever in this expansion.

    1v1, you can have VERY lopsided fights. VERY lopsided. That's something that has made me dislike this expansion's effect on PvP, and I'm very vocal about it. But group v group, even if it's as small as 3v3 or such, the advantage that freeps have over creeps becomes very noticeable.
    The raids that I have led on creepside, in general, I haven't found to be much underpowered compared to the freeps we were fighting. If the raid is balanced, I think creeps can stand toe to toe with an equal number of freeps. We shall see in time.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL[/COLOR]
    [/CENTER]

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    I had a reaver kill my guard in a little over 6 seconds,
    I know we don't agree on much, if anything, but do you believe the reaver was macroing? Little over 6 seconds seems kind of farfetched unless they were macroing possibly, which is an exploit and there has said to have been a couple occurrences on this server. Btw, what's your audacity at? I could see that being more viable if you aren't max audacity, but even then, being burnt down that quick as a guardian especially sounds like a case of macroing. And yes, I'm aware that you were saying you are over exaggerating, but still seems like you said you got killed pretty quick, which is asinine to believe unless they were macroing or you don't have max aud.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadacakai View Post
    YET!! already have seen 30k+ hits from hunters on our server.
    That's with full raid buffs. Creeps are putting out the kinds of numbers I mentioned all on their own.


    Quote Originally Posted by jadacakai View Post
    LOL

    My warg and BA have 41-45k morale, hunters/minis are at 18-20k, guards/wardens at 20-25k, cappys ive seen upward of 29k. So, plz do some more freep maths for me!!

    Now take into account the dps difference and its still heavily in freeps favor.
    I'm barely over 25k in full PvE tank gear. Do some more creep math please. In my experience 15-20k is more common for freeps, perhaps I should have said 2-3 times but I did say that I was maybe exaggerating a bit. Maybe you could push 25k+ on a high rank tank class but if a freep does have that much morale, they'll hit like a wet noodle. Morale items usually don't come with crit and stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    I know we don't agree on much, if anything, but do you believe the reaver was macroing? Little over 6 seconds seems kind of farfetched unless they were macroing possibly, which is an exploit and there has said to have been a couple occurrences on this server. Btw, what's your audacity at? I could see that being more viable if you aren't max audacity, but even then, being burnt down that quick as a guardian especially sounds like a case of macroing. And yes, I'm aware that you were saying you are over exaggerating, but still seems like you said you got killed pretty quick, which is asinine to believe unless they were macroing or you don't have max aud.
    I wasn't exaggerating about being killed in 6 seconds, that actually happened.

    I think I had about 14 aud at the time. I don't think he was macroing, he didn't kill me all that much faster than other reavers have, the 6 second kill was just a fairly lucky/unlucky situation where pretty much everything crit. 6k blade toss dev, a few bleeds then an impale and dev strike. With crits on most of that stuff, even 18k morale doesn't last very long.

  25. #50
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    Generally speaking, Freeps are OP again, otherwise you wouldn't see folks like Althorr or Fenore out (Just like you didn't see them out prior to this update). They don't do all that grinding and spend all that money to play on a level playing field.

    Now it's all about perspective of course and being I'm a poorly played Reaver, my perspective is: The only gimp Freep class as usual is a Guardian. All other well played Freeps are OP. Then again, I'm not really sure we have that many well played Guardians out anymore.

    I did say "well played", being that about 80% of my playtime is solo, I run into a lot of low ranked, low audacity freeps from time to time and for the most part they are too easy to kill. But Burgs like Sippy and Ardook are way OP in happenstance meeting while solo. So are well played Cappies, Hunters, Wardens and a few Champions.

    I'm personally glad to see they have their auto win buttons back. It was getting mighty lonely prior to this update and we all know that if it's not easy, that most just aren't going to do it..

    Now with that said, I do have to eat a little crow.. You know who was out prior to this update? Demigrant (spelling?) and Finch.. I admit, I misjudged them both.
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

 

 
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