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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    East Peoria, IL
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    Helm's Deep Solo Unbalanced

    I don't know if anyone else here is experiencing this, or if I just not doing the instances correct, but soloing the instances and getting ANY medal above a complete failure or bronze is darn near hard, sometimes impossible. Sometimes, way TOO enemies get sent at once and they just overtake and completely demolish a group of soldiers, or attack the objective you are protecting. Take Helm's Dike for instance. Most of the side quests are virtually impossible to do any good on solo. All the side quests tend to send TOO many enemies at you at once, and you cannot simply kill them fast enough to protect the horses or guard the watchtower to prevent the gate from being blown up. In other cases, there is fighting on BOTH the eastern AND western sides of the dike at the same time, and you cannot be in four places at once, so once side just gets completely overwhelmed and you fail the main mission. These don't happen all the time, but every solo instance, at least one of the quests becomes heavily unbalanced to make it impossible to get more than a bronze. Does anyone else experience this in their solo attempts of the HD Instances?
    Gladden | Azaryah | Elven Hunter | Lvl. 85

  2. #2
    My first character through western Rohan is level 93 and in the Stonedeans, so I am just about to hit the Deep and its Epic Battles for the first time. But a Beta tester in my kin said the EBs were very hard to solo during the last couple Beta builds, after being very easy earlier on in Beta, and he said again last night that the current live versions (he has a 95 already) are indeed difficult to solo. So from that one anecdotal perspective at least, I don't think you're alone. I'm eager to get into them myself this weekend.

    One thought, and one question:

    The thought: I would prefer that the EBs are difficult. I know many players with many play styles will of course have differing opinions, and I’m not trying to start the umpteenth version of that debate. But there has been a lot of complaining this past year or more about content being too easy, including skraids. Turbine wanted EBs to be different from glorified skirms, so I say yay for some challenging end game content! I’ll grab kinnies or even PUG to duo ones I have trouble soloing

    The question: I understand that we advance in our chosen EB specialization. Might an EB that is difficult to solo become more do-able as you level up your skills? If you were a maxxed-out Officer, for instance, would you be able to buff some of those soldiers enough to stand on their own while you take care of the side quest? If so, sounds like good design to me. But since I haven’t been to the Deep yet I don’t know…

  3. #3
    EDIT: Made a guide to help out a bit here too - https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...de-Quest-Guide

    For the most part you should be able to get bronze no problem on any of the BB instances. If it really comes down to it, sacrifice the optional side quests to focus on keeping your soldiers alive at the main choke points. In many cases, especially on Helm's Dike, Glittering Caves, and the Deeping Coomb, the choke points and the side quests come through the same area which makes it easier.

    For your Class Trait Spec, stay in whatever line offers you the most DPS. You can't heal, you can't buff, debuffs don't really matter, CC's only marginally important, you pretty much just want to focus on killing things.

    For your BB Spec, go either Engineer or Officer. Vanguard is damn near useless, even at higher levels.

    For the actual battles, spend most of your time running back and forth to the 2 attack points, Use the NPC Commanders to buff their soldiers and save the heals for when you see soldiers or archers getting into the yellow. Add in some DPS here and there, and try to focus on things that will bottleneck the fighting or be ignored by NPCs(Trolls, Enemy Commanders, Sappers)

    A few maps have things you're required to do, like Deeping Wall, where you absolutely have to destroy the enemy catapults with your siege weaponry.

    Remember you also can use your horse/goat to get around which saves a huge amount of time in places like Glittering Caves.

    There are a few side quest that are stupid hard right now or where doing them will cause you to get your ### kicked somewhere else, and a few that when combined in the right way can really screw you over. Other than that, the BB are really almost beyond easy. Even with level scaling (which is slightly less strong than being at level) I've had no problem getting at least bronze on everything and getting up to plat on a few side quests, and I'm playing a minstrel so my comparative DPS to most other classes is meh.

    The question: I understand that we advance in our chosen EB specialization. Might an EB that is difficult to solo become more do-able as you level up your skills?
    This is definitely the case. As of Beta at least, they were "designed" to be winnable Bronze/Silver and then winnable at Gold/Plat as you got further into your spec. For example, being able to fire a maxed engy catapult that can kill 16-24 mobs instead of 9 really changes the tide.
    Last edited by Gedrevn; Dec 03 2013 at 12:55 PM.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Thessaloniki, Greece
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    26
    If you put enough points into your EB spec tree (or into Engineer anyway, since it seems that this is the only tree that really matters as of now) soloing becomes quite a lot easier. You will still struggle to win the Gold Medal at best for battles and side-missions (with the occasional 3-4 quests that are easy enough to complete with Platinum even when soloing), but the difficulty of the battles as well as the horrible current bugs essentialy mean that Epic Battles were meant to be played as a Duo and above, and that Gold Medal is pretty much the top you can aim on average when soloing.
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  5. #5
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    Why, why, why, are you doing them solo?
    They are designed to be played with 2 players. You are cutting your chances easily by 50% by choosing not to bring a friend along. Solo is only there as an option for masochists, and once you're trained up. It's just like how you can do a 6 man with 4, or a 12 man with 9, but why would you? Since the rewards are daily it is really a bad idea to play these alone.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    Why, why, why, are you doing them solo?
    They are designed to be played with 2 players. You are cutting your chances easily by 50% by choosing not to bring a friend along. Solo is only there as an option for masochists, and once you're trained up. It's just like how you can do a 6 man with 4, or a 12 man with 9, but why would you? Since the rewards are daily it is really a bad idea to play these alone.
    You would think for the crowning jewel of an expansion that they would support solo just as much. Vast portions of the the rest of the game are very geared to solo. What else as solo players to do? Ignore one of the main selling points of the expansion? I understand your point, but it seems like a major misstep on their part.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    Why, why, why, are you doing them solo?
    They are designed to be played with 2 players. You are cutting your chances easily by 50% by choosing not to bring a friend along. Solo is only there as an option for masochists, and once you're trained up. It's just like how you can do a 6 man with 4, or a 12 man with 9, but why would you? Since the rewards are daily it is really a bad idea to play these alone.
    Actually they were designed to do solo. The devs stated they did not rebalance them for duo however they were able to be run with a second person. Solo was there by design for everyone, not just for masochists.

    The fact that it may be a bad idea to do them alone is a design flaw, not a player flaw.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    577
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    Why, why, why, are you doing them solo?
    They are designed to be played with 2 players. You are cutting your chances easily by 50% by choosing not to bring a friend along. Solo is only there as an option for masochists, and once you're trained up. It's just like how you can do a 6 man with 4, or a 12 man with 9, but why would you? Since the rewards are daily it is really a bad idea to play these alone.
    Because I sat in the instance finder for over an hour last night and still found nobody to do them?

    The instance population of LOTRO is now so low that every instance is basically mandatory solo now.

    Heck. Nobody even runs skirmish raids anymore.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    For the most part you should be able to get bronze no problem on any of the BB instances. If it really comes down to it, sacrifice the optional side quests to focus on keeping your soldiers alive at the main choke points. In many cases, especially on Helm's Dike, Glittering Caves, and the Deeping Coomb, the choke points and the side quests come through the same area which makes it easier.

    For your Class Trait Spec, stay in whatever line offers you the most DPS. You can't heal, you can't buff, debuffs don't really matter, CC's only marginally important, you pretty much just want to focus on killing things.

    For your BB Spec, go either Engineer or Officer. Vanguard is damn near useless, even at higher levels.

    For the actual battles, spend most of your time running back and forth to the 2 attack points, Use the NPC Commanders to buff their soldiers and save the heals for when you see soldiers or archers getting into the yellow. Add in some DPS here and there, and try to focus on things that will bottleneck the fighting or be ignored by NPCs(Trolls, Enemy Commanders, Sappers)

    A few maps have things you're required to do, like Deeping Wall, where you absolutely have to destroy the enemy catapults with your siege weaponry.

    Remember you also can use your horse/goat to get around which saves a huge amount of time in places like Glittering Caves.

    There are a few side quest that are stupid hard right now or where doing them will cause you to get your ### kicked somewhere else, and a few that when combined in the right way can really screw you over. Other than that, the BB are really almost beyond easy. Even with level scaling (which is slightly less strong than being at level) I've had no problem getting at least bronze on everything and getting up to plat on a few side quests, and I'm playing a minstrel so my comparative DPS to most other classes is meh.


    This is definitely the case. As of Beta at least, they were "designed" to be winnable Bronze/Silver and then winnable at Gold/Plat as you got further into your spec. For example, being able to fire a maxed engy catapult that can kill 16-24 mobs instead of 9 really changes the tide.
    This is correct. The more you do the stronger you get the higher medals you will receive.

    And they were designed to solo. If you are solo dps, they are pretty easy in terms of mobs but you'll still neeed to specialise and use the clickies, as stated above. You don't take much damage-my autolevelled crafting RK only died at the powder at the gate quest from the explosion-which was a shock after nothing else had touched her...

    The mechanics of most are such that-until you level your proficiency-grouped or solo you will likely fail most side quests and may have issues with main. My duo buddy and i got a gold on our first attempt cause we saved the horses but we failed the main quest. (We do tier 3 skirms-failure is a new experience LOL) My solo attempt I got nothing (iron) on first attempt bronze on next, gold on next.

    But i agree they are much more fun with other people.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by AzariahYisrael View Post
    I don't know if anyone else here is experiencing this, or if I just not doing the instances correct, but soloing the instances and getting ANY medal above a complete failure or bronze is darn near hard, sometimes impossible. Sometimes, way TOO enemies get sent at once and they just overtake and completely demolish a group of soldiers, or attack the objective you are protecting. Take Helm's Dike for instance. Most of the side quests are virtually impossible to do any good on solo. All the side quests tend to send TOO many enemies at you at once, and you cannot simply kill them fast enough to protect the horses or guard the watchtower to prevent the gate from being blown up. In other cases, there is fighting on BOTH the eastern AND western sides of the dike at the same time, and you cannot be in four places at once, so once side just gets completely overwhelmed and you fail the main mission. These don't happen all the time, but every solo instance, at least one of the quests becomes heavily unbalanced to make it impossible to get more than a bronze. Does anyone else experience this in their solo attempts of the HD Instances?

    Based on my experiences so far and in my BETA experiences, you will have a difficult time in solo mode. Once you have points to start dumping into your Big Battle skill tree, things will get much easier. Vanguard is a waste of time and doesn't do anything, so most people (and myself) are going engineer. The barricades and siege engines are pretty handy once you're high enough level to make good use of them.

    The best way to go about it early on is to try and duo the big battles. They're exactly the same, but you get one more body to help you with side quests, DPS, repairing, etc. I've found that a really good combo for the big battles is Mini/Hunter because hunter DPS is insane right now (easy 30k crit hits) and Mini warspeech is pretty darn mean too. Additionally, when the poop hits the fan, a mini can heal up soldiers during lulls in the fighting.

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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    I found the Epic Battles to be very unengaging. I will do them all once for the Epic Quest line, but I doubt that I will set foot in them beyond that. I view skirmishes the same way.
    TANSTAAFL

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Heywood, Lancs
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    So far the only issues I have with the Big Battles is timing -- I am Hunter lvl 95 Bowmaster traited

    Helm's Dike

    Battering Ram - there are 3 archers to feed with arrows. Despite what the voice-over tells you, you don't need to protect them, just supply them with arrows. I have bug'ed that several tomes
    Running between the three is fairly easy, but the arrow spawns are pretty slow

    Save the Horses - Easiest of the side quests just pew-pew and they all die

    Watchtower - don't bother with the orcs, warriors and what not. Stick to killing the Dunlending Scouts, these are the ones that damage the tower

    Stone Carriers - this is the one where you protect the archers. The Voice-over has been swapped with that for the Battering Ram
    Ideally you want to be R1 Engineer to run this so you can use the Barricade Crates. Drop 1 at each side and you just run between all 3 telling them to fire

    Statue - Aim the catapult at the lower entry point below Statue, fire as often as you can.
    Trolls will take damage on their approach through the barrage. Keep an eye out for the trolls attacking the statue and dispatch them as quick as poss
    If you haven't used the barricades yet then at the entry to the Statue is a good place to drop one
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    64
    I think they (again) copy an Approach from Rift

    there you can Play all the epic raids and adventures in Special instances solo or duo

    and I think they did it because they see a key audience in couples who are used to Level and quest together,
    probably they want to provide the same here ...

    regards

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dying View Post
    I think they (again) copy an Approach from Rift

    there you can Play all the epic raids and adventures in Special instances solo or duo

    and I think they did it because they see a key audience in couples who are used to Level and quest together,
    probably they want to provide the same here ...

    regards
    No you can't. Rift offers very little for solo players at level cap.

    Raids are 10-man or 20-man in Rift. Expert dungeons are 5-man. There is no special version for "couples".

    Best gear comes from T2 raiding.

    They have a few solo and duo dungeons, some are fairly hard, but they only give mediocre loot/currency compared to a real dungeon.

    Some Raid/dungeon bosses are included in the solo story quest. Same as in older Lotro epics, you get a nerfed solo version you beat on with some NPCs. Hardly the same thing as fighting the actual boss.

    I love Rift for challenging raids and fun group content myself. But I would feel a lot more satisfied and welcomed In Lotro, If I where a solo or duo player. Lotro is definitely the better choice, if you want to play alone or with your spouse. The difference in obtainable solo v.s. raid gear is more balanced here.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    124
    Quote Originally Posted by AzariahYisrael View Post
    I don't know if anyone else here is experiencing this, or if I just not doing the instances correct, but soloing the instances and getting ANY medal above a complete failure or bronze is darn near hard, sometimes impossible. Sometimes, way TOO enemies get sent at once and they just overtake and completely demolish a group of soldiers, or attack the objective you are protecting. Take Helm's Dike for instance. Most of the side quests are virtually impossible to do any good on solo. All the side quests tend to send TOO many enemies at you at once, and you cannot simply kill them fast enough to protect the horses or guard the watchtower to prevent the gate from being blown up. In other cases, there is fighting on BOTH the eastern AND western sides of the dike at the same time, and you cannot be in four places at once, so once side just gets completely overwhelmed and you fail the main mission. These don't happen all the time, but every solo instance, at least one of the quests becomes heavily unbalanced to make it impossible to get more than a bronze. Does anyone else experience this in their solo attempts of the HD Instances?
    I can't agree with you, managed to get many gold/platinum medals on my early BB solo runs solo with an upscaled L65 champ.

    A few tips I can share with you:
    1. Accept that ypu have to switch between the roles a lot during the battle.
    2. Ignore Vanguard, concentrate on Engineer and Officer. Your dps is important, but using wisely your BB role skills is sometimes much more important!
    3. Learn how to issue commands to soldiers and when use different stances/buffs, when to heal them. It helps to eliminate or minimize casualities a lot. For example "shield and sword" stance really makes a difference - same damage as only sword, improved defence of soldiers. If you have to keep two groups alive and both are in trouble - heal the first one and apply defence and attack buff to the second. It's good to "save" buffs and apply them in a moment when you leave the main defence for a subquest. When you get back from subquest, apply heal immediately. You increase the chance of soldiers to survive when you are not present and let them catch a breath after your absence. You can really save some soldiers that way.
    4. Note that you can repair a lot of quest objects - banners, gates, barricades, etc. What is important is that you can do engineering task and fight at the same time. So you can repair the banner and punch that nasty sapper in the face in parallel. If you find a good position for yourself, you can repair barricade and make AoE attacks to incoming mobs.
    6. Don't expect to get platinum on first run, BBs are designed in a way that you get bronze or silver first and when you learn the instance and quest specific, gain some ranks you get back for gold and platinums. Still, golds and platinum for some sidequests are possible even for rank 0, if you think strategically. Some important skills are deeper in the tree - it makes a difference when your engineer gets an ability to place a barricade before the soldiers, use portable war machines, your officer can command powerful heals more often, switch the team to two-handed stance, buff damage and haste giving them serious burst damage when you need it.
    7. Solo BB can be done duo, ask in glff for a partner. Lots of people run BB so you won't have the problems to find someone else to run it with you. Second person really helps (one of you can keep main defence, second do the subquest).

    I hope my tips will be helpful :-)
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