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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Negative criticism is that which starts assuming the worst and possibly goes down from there. Ie, every possible facet is wrong, or if it's not wrong it's by accident instead of by design. Negative criticism assumes that no change can or will be made to improve things. Positive criticism does not necessarily think everything is right but instead tries to keep an objective view of what is seen (where both "this sucks" as well as "best ever!" are not objective). Of course no one gets everything they want, but it doesn't allow dislike of one feature (trait trees) taint what is seen about all other features. Positive criticism can suggest ways to improve, without implying a total rewrite or conversion to a a preferred style (ie, trait trees are bad but here are some things to improve that could make it better is positive criticism, as it's not asking to accept as is and is also not demanding that it revert and be tossed out entirely).
    There is no such thing as positive critiscism, lol. If you are critiscising it is because you think something is wrong. So you have to point to that wrong, this being negative. Pointing to the positive will not highlight what is negative and needs fixing. Also based on past performance, anything said positively will be taken and used by the spin-merchants as justification for the whole package being accepted by everyone posting anything positive about any part of it and ignoring anything negative that ois pointed out.

    As for players commenting here while playing Rift, if they have paid for Lotro and want to play it again in the future then of course they should be here commenting. Or are you saying that since they have stopped playing for now because they are not happy with what has happened, that they are not allowed any interest in the game and are never allowed back again?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    Umm - you actually didn't answer their questions - which were around the purpose of the posts; to help improve the game with constructive criticism or just have numerous long complaint sessions? - repeating the same things over and again and then reminding us of the better game they have gone to.
    I wasn't attempting to answer any questions - just pointing out the preposterous notion being posed by Lohi.

    Anyhow, as for whether "whining, whinging, complaining and going on about the same thing over and over" does not have any impact then let me point you and some of the others here of a relatively recent example of where a long term campaign of doing just that resulted in a public admission by Turbine that the feature in question indeed was after all quite wrong, and so followed that it's reduction in impact and subsequent removal.

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    There is no such thing as positive critiscism, lol. If you are critiscising it is because you think something is wrong. So you have to point to that wrong, this being negative. Pointing to the positive will not highlight what is negative and needs fixing. Also based on past performance, anything said positively will be taken and used by the spin-merchants as justification for the whole package being accepted by everyone posting anything positive about any part of it and ignoring anything negative that ois pointed out.

    As for players commenting here while playing Rift, if they have paid for Lotro and want to play it again in the future then of course they should be here commenting. Or are you saying that since they have stopped playing for now because they are not happy with what has happened, that they are not allowed any interest in the game and are never allowed back again?
    It is called 'constructive criticism' - go and look it up if you don't know what it means.
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    It is called 'constructive criticism' - go and look it up if you don't know what it means.
    The only difference between constructive criticism and "whining" on a game forum is whether or not one agrees with the poster. Someone can post a long and detailed explanation about why they do not like a particular feature or why they think it is bad for the game and how it could be improved but they will still be called a "whiner" or "hater" by those that like the feature.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    It is called 'constructive criticism' - go and look it up if you don't know what it means.
    Ah, but you didn't call it that. You called it "positive criticism".

    And they have been giving reams of constructive criticism, explaining exactly why this game now sucks. But you subjectively choose to pretend that it's trolling, apparently because there's any form of criticism involved.

    The sea is calling us home...

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post

    Trait trees are way to restrictive they stifle players options and lead them down linear game play routes - They need to at least remove the double cost penalty, or give players more points to spend, whatever they do they need to allow players to get further down a second tree at the very least.

    Big Battles ignore peoples class choices way to much, a guard cant tank , LMs cant cc (or dps as everything dies before inductions go off), healers cant heal, its all about dps, that it dps and a few side quests here and there, they need to be re-thought more in the like to traditional raids that have a need for all classes and the jobs they do. The whole point of these changes was to define the class roles more but then they produce content that completely ignores those roles, make a BB that needs tanking, needs cc, and needs heals along with dps, then maybe people wont be reduced to firing catapults as an end game experience.

    Landscape difficulty - well thats clear where the problem lies, needs a lot of rebalancing. but nerfing the classes will be very unpopular, I think a 50/50 compromise between nerfing the class dps and upping mob toughness is best.

    PvP - same as above, but nothing can be done here till freep dps is fixed.

    From what I have read in the forums and what my old kinnies have told me these are the things that are bothering people the most and the things that need addressing ASAP. To be honest they were the same issues we were seeing in beta as well.
    Excellent example of constructive criticism. Examples clear. Opinion seperated clearly from observation. As a result, very few "I" and "you" statements. No hyperbole or false analogies.
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  7. #107
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    A few tidbits.

    Even if you quit playing you are still counted as a registered player. It's all a numbers game.
    Threatening to quit and not shop here means little to turbine. They have your money and your loss will be replaced by the end of the day.
    Constructive criticism points out an issue clearly and often offers up solutions. "it sucks" tells me nothing and I blow off immediately.

    And it has been my experience that in order to drive home a point sometimes it takes a lot of swings of the hammer.

    If you honestly want to force Turbine to make changes you have to..... hmmmm, hand sapience a reason or not? This may take some pondering. None the less it will never happen in this day and age.

    And 2 things to add to the "we can get it done" list. XP disablers and the FE immunity toggle. We can get it done, it just takes more effort and conviction then "I quit".

  8. #108
    I have stated I am not actively playing with the HD changes etc and that I am now playing Rift. FYI I also play STO, SWTOR and WoW and was doing so long before I stopped playing LOTRO. In fact I was playing WoW before LOTRO ever even released.

    Do not assume I no longer have LOTRO on my PC, I still do. I post here in the hopes that the criticism offered by myself and others will result in changes that make the game once more attractive to me and I can again have fun while playing it. If changes are made, I will try them and see if they make the game fun once again. And by not buying or playing HD, I have made a statement that Turbine cannot miss in their metrics and metadata collection. If enough people do that, the pressure to make adjustments will become overwhelming due to corporate asking hard questions about what has happened and how to fix it.

    The fact that I have left does not mean I am so mad I will not come back. I simply find the game no longer fun with the changes and BBs in their present state and since this is entertainment, if it is not fun it is no longer entertaining and I have no reason to play if I am not entertained. That could easily change given adjustments to the systems, so those who go on about whiners and haters who need to shut up and leave the forums really have no concept of what they are talking about.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    I think there are one or two trolls here and they are disrupting the discussion which could make the game better for us all.
    There are definitely two trolls in this thread that have successfully derailed the thread with multiple posts to overwhelm any commenters. In this thread in particular it was mostly by making the subject about what is good criticism and what's bad with the disguised appearance of "helping others". It's high time to put these trolls on ignore and skip their posts when commenting.

    This is not only for this thread, but many, many more where others will look to change the topic. Be wary of it and stay on subject when replying.
    Balgost-85 Guard, Gungyl-85 Burg, Dolfang-85 LM, Linyc-85 Capt, Dareg-85 Mini, Radhur-85 Hunter Formerly residing on Riddermark/now Gladden

  10. #110
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    I'll tell you right now "Turbine" (the cloak) has LONG since stopped listening to customers when it comes to game improvements they're not interested in making. They do, however, love to claim they listen to their "customers" when it comes to things that don't require much change at all. We've been hollering for years about a handful of things "Turbine" has never bothered with. ONE of course is LAG. Their response to this was to drop the "lag team" (from whom we used to get monthly reports), and move us to servers (to "fix lag") of questionable quality.

    It's wishful thinking bordering on delusion to believe "Turbine" will respond to any hammer, sledge or tack take your pick. If nothing else, they've become more insular and difficult to contact. Sure, they claim they monitor GLFF to get feedback on updates. However, I suspect this is no more than fishing for compliments. They have their OWN wishful thinking, too.

    No one, however self-righteous or philosophically "positive" they may be, can dispute long-term "customers" (we used to be "players") have a right to sound off at how "Turbine" has altered conditions over the years to make themselves immune to criticism. There were understandings. There were overt promises made, and broken. Using a blanket philosophy to criticize the critics, rather than comprehending the specifics involved (due to just not having been there at the time) isn't being more positive. It's being vapid.

    I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game of my own volition, since nobody's held a gun to my head, but also predicated on certain assurances made by "Turbine" which were never met. I am putting "Turbine" in quotes here, because this involves specific people who have made specific decisions with regard to this entire matter.

    As far as Sapience is concerned. How did Sapience become confused with someone who can, and does make actual policy decisions? There's a lot of "understanding" going on that smacks of the babblings of the uninformed. So, you fanbois go ahead and tout the magic the future will hold. I'm not obliged to hold "Turbine's" hand while wishing they figure out which end is up. They wanted generic MMO. They have generic MMO. I don't play those. I quit.

    What people fail to understand is, the original LOTRO was a work of art. "Turbine" has painted a moustache on the Mona Lisa and calls it "art." If you are okay with that sort of thing, fine. I'm not. I quit.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    I was just curious - as they asked why people who have left the game come back here to make negative posts, most of which are just 'this game sucks and I have left to play Rift'. I have a lot of sympathy for the sort of campaign you mention, as during that time people pointed out flaws in the system and lots of alternatives (which is the sort of positive criticism one of the posters above claims can't happen).

    I just wonder about the pointless negative posts that people who claim to no longer have the game on their PCs keep coming back here and making - I think there are one or two trolls here and they are disrupting the discussion which could make the game better for us all.
    So you think I'm a troll? I play the game. It's still have it on my PC and it has been played 3 times int he last week. But yet the consensus is that because I criticize the game I'm not playing? I'm not trolling I'm standing up for posters who feel the same way I do. Do you think they would even post here if they would never come back to the game? What they would like to se is some improvements to encourage them to play the game.

    As I am even if I still play it is far less than I used to. I can only blame one entity for that Turbine. It's my opinion that if we (the playerbase) had been listened to maybe we'd have less of these threads.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    So you think I'm a troll? I play the game. It's still have it on my PC and it has been played 3 times int he last week. But yet the consensus is that because I criticize the game I'm not playing? I'm not trolling I'm standing up for posters who feel the same way I do. Do you think they would even post here if they would never come back to the game? What they would like to se is some improvements to encourage them to play the game.

    As I am even if I still play it is far less than I used to. I can only blame one entity for that Turbine. It's my opinion that if we (the playerbase) had been listened to maybe we'd have less of these threads.
    The definition of the word "Troll": someone who writes posts I don't agree with and uses language I don't approve of while doing it.

    That's pretty much what it means to people on forums.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    I have stated I am not actively playing with the HD changes etc and that I am now playing Rift. FYI I also play STO, SWTOR and WoW and was doing so long before I stopped playing LOTRO. In fact I was playing WoW before LOTRO ever even released.

    Do not assume I no longer have LOTRO on my PC, I still do. I post here in the hopes that the criticism offered by myself and others will result in changes that make the game once more attractive to me and I can again have fun while playing it. If changes are made, I will try them and see if they make the game fun once again. And by not buying or playing HD, I have made a statement that Turbine cannot miss in their metrics and metadata collection. If enough people do that, the pressure to make adjustments will become overwhelming due to corporate asking hard questions about what has happened and how to fix it.

    The fact that I have left does not mean I am so mad I will not come back. I simply find the game no longer fun with the changes and BBs in their present state and since this is entertainment, if it is not fun it is no longer entertaining and I have no reason to play if I am not entertained. That could easily change given adjustments to the systems, so those who go on about whiners and haters who need to shut up and leave the forums really have no concept of what they are talking about.
    I'm replying to your post in particular because you bring up something that I think needs addressing; specifically - "I post here in the hopes that the criticism offered by myself and others will result in changes that make the game once more attractive to me and I can again have fun while playing it."

    Now, what about the people who are having fun NOW with the game? Is their opinion somehow invalidated? What makes your enjoyment somehow more applicable than their enjoyment (other than the obvious selfish reason of - I want to have fun, so do what I say)? What about the people who are having much more fun NOW than they were before, and this release is what brought them back to the game? What about the people who do not post on the forums? Because they don't post, their opinions don't count?

    Honest questions. Turbine absolutely CANNOT make everyone happy. It is an impossible task.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    I'm replying to your post in particular because you bring up something that I think needs addressing; specifically - "I post here in the hopes that the criticism offered by myself and others will result in changes that make the game once more attractive to me and I can again have fun while playing it."

    Now, what about the people who are having fun NOW with the game? Is their opinion somehow invalidated?
    Of course not, no one has said that. They are welcome to express their opinion of why X change has increased their level of enjoyment just the same as those that express their opinion of why X change has decreased their level of enjoyment.

    What makes your enjoyment somehow more applicable than their enjoyment (other than the obvious selfish reason of - I want to have fun, so do what I say)?
    Nothing does, it is YOU that is saying that.

    What about the people who are having much more fun NOW than they were before, and this release is what brought them back to the game?
    As I said above, they are welcome to express that, the only one saying they can't here is YOU.

    What about the people who do not post on the forums? Because they don't post, their opinions don't count?
    Correct they don't count. If they do not post their opinion then how can their opinion count in the discussion? It is like not voting then complaining about the political party that won.

    Honest questions. Turbine absolutely CANNOT make everyone happy. It is an impossible task.
    Correct, no one here is saying that they can so what is your point?

  15. #115
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    I wouldn't get to hung up on people who use the troll term, I find people who use that like it has been used here are people who are out of ideas in the discussion and are using it as a cop out. When having a discussion or a debate with someone and they start using that time I smile shows me they realise they have nothing left to offer the discussion and want a way out of it, but rather than admit that they resort to insults and calling people trolls in the hope it will divert attention from the original discussion that they are struggling with.

    Its water off a ducks back, there are some real issues with this expansion and the direction and quality of the game as a whole that the community (and turbine with us as well) need to discuss, that isn't to say people who like the expansion and the direction the game is heading aren't welcome in that discussion, of course they are, truth is the game needs more customers and that means catering for more play styles and anyone who blindly defends their own play style while shouting down any one else who asks for some love of their own, isnt good for the game, raiders and pvp'ers need soloists to fund the game and soloists and lore junkies need raiders and pvp'ers to fund the game as well, no one group can keep the game afloat by themselves and laughing/mocking or cheering off players with "cya can I haz your stuff" or "you wont be missed" comments might seem very clever at first but eventually it will come back and bite you in the rear.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferathyr View Post
    Correct they don't count. If they do not post their opinion then how can their opinion count in the discussion? It is like not voting then complaining about the political party that won.
    I think it's more like voting and then NOT complaining about the political party that won because it's the one you voted for. Silent majority and all that.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    I'm replying to your post in particular because you bring up something that I think needs addressing; specifically - "I post here in the hopes that the criticism offered by myself and others will result in changes that make the game once more attractive to me and I can again have fun while playing it."

    Now, what about the people who are having fun NOW with the game? Is their opinion somehow invalidated? What makes your enjoyment somehow more applicable than their enjoyment (other than the obvious selfish reason of - I want to have fun, so do what I say)? What about the people who are having much more fun NOW than they were before, and this release is what brought them back to the game? What about the people who do not post on the forums? Because they don't post, their opinions don't count?

    Honest questions. Turbine absolutely CANNOT make everyone happy. It is an impossible task.
    No, they cannot make everyone happy and my pleasure with the game (or lack thereof) is no more important than anybody else's.

    What you cannot seem to fathom at all is that Turbine will look at the metrics and metadata first, not the forums. If they find a net gain long term, they will be happy and change nothing. If however, they see a significant net loss post HD, the criticisms on the forum can offer them insight into what caused that net loss and suggest possible changes to remedy that net loss and get folks who left to come back.

    Nobody's opinion is invalid and nowhere did I suggest it was, you chose to project that meaning onto my post to further whatever agenda you have. I was simply expressing MY opinion without belittling or dismissing the opinions of others. Trying to shut down other people expressing their opinion is the real trouble making around here.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    No, they cannot make everyone happy and my pleasure with the game (or lack thereof) is no more important than anybody else's.

    What you cannot seem to fathom at all is that Turbine will look at the metrics and metadata first, not the forums. If they find a net gain long term, they will be happy and change nothing. If however, they see a significant net loss post HD, the criticisms on the forum can offer them insight into what caused that net loss and suggest possible changes to remedy that net loss and get folks who left to come back.

    Nobody's opinion is invalid and nowhere did I suggest it was, you chose to project that meaning onto my post to further whatever agenda you have. I was simply expressing MY opinion without belittling or dismissing the opinions of others. Trying to shut down other people expressing their opinion is the real trouble making around here.
    Wonderful post, captured my thoughts exactly, your second statement is the exact reason I continue to post here, Just imagine the HD expansion doesnt go well and players start leaving or not spending money ( and judging by the 40% drop off in steam players in less than a week since release that may not be such a wild claim) what happens next? Who do turbine need to talk to to correct things? do they need to hear from the players who loved the expansion and carried on playing and spending money, or do they need to hear from the players who disliked the changes and left or stopped spending money?

    Well if they only asked the players who stayed all they will hear is "it was awesome, dont change a thing, trait trees are great, BBs are fantastic, keep everything as it is" well thats lovely, but nothing changes, the players that left will stay away, the players that didn't spend as much money will spend even less, and the games slowly dies. If however they take all the negative posts and criticism and feedback that has been left on the forums, they now know why those players left, they now know what they need to change to bring them back.

    if the expansion is a success then who cares what negative posts have been left? if the expansion has all the old players logging back in day after day for months on end and new players arriving in their droves, does it matter what I said or what others who don't like the changes have said? No , Turbine dont need any feedback from us, they have their new player base and if that new player base is healthy enough to fund the future of the game and cause it to thrive and expand and generate profit for WB it doesnt matter what we say or do.

    in the coming months we will see if Turbine need our feedback or not, come March if the servers are dead and logins have fallen even further than they were before HD then they will need to hear why we have left, if not and Middle earth is flooded with heroes still playing BBs in their droves, then our negativity didnt matter did it?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    Wonderful post, captured my thoughts exactly, your second statement is the exact reason I continue to post here, Just imagine the HD expansion doesnt go well and players start leaving or not spending money ( and judging by the 40% drop off in steam players in less than a week since release that may not be such a wild claim) what happens next? Who do turbine need to talk to to correct things? do they need to hear from the players who loved the expansion and carried on playing and spending money, or do they need to hear from the players who disliked the changes and left or stopped spending money?

    Well if they only asked the players who stayed all they will hear is "it was awesome, dont change a thing, trait trees are great, BBs are fantastic, keep everything as it is" well thats lovely, but nothing changes, the players that left will stay away, the players that didn't spend as much money will spend even less, and the games slowly dies. If however they take all the negative posts and criticism and feedback that has been left on the forums, they now know why those players left, they now know what they need to change to bring them back.

    if the expansion is a success then who cares what negative posts have been left? if the expansion has all the old players logging back in day after day for months on end and new players arriving in their droves, does it matter what I said or what others who don't like the changes have said? No , Turbine dont need any feedback from us, they have their new player base and if that new player base is healthy enough to fund the future of the game and cause it to thrive and expand and generate profit for WB it doesnt matter what we say or do.

    in the coming months we will see if Turbine need our feedback or not, come March if the servers are dead and logins have fallen even further than they were before HD then they will need to hear why we have left, if not and Middle earth is flooded with heroes still playing BBs in their droves, then our negativity didnt matter did it?
    This is also an example of why I made the post I did. Let's say Turbine DOES make the changes that you (generic you) want, and all those players who have been complaining come back. However, now the players that are happy NOW are unhappy, and they all leave, and begin posting on the forums all the things they don't like and how they want Turbine to change it back. Do you see now the point I am trying to make?

    The bottom line is this - How does Turbine choose which group of people to make happy?
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    How does Turbine choose which group of people to make happy?
    That's simple. They pick the group that makes them the most money. Not sure why anyone would even ask this question to be honest. Every decision a MMO dev makes is based on one thing, and one thing only. What will make the most money.

    Typically the best way to do that is create a game or make changes that draw the most people in. The best way to do that is make the game fun and enjoyable... But any change made isn't really being done just to make the game more fun, it's being done to make the game more profitable.

  21. #121
    now before anyone says anything about how many post's i make or some such about how im a noob im like several player's who do not post often or at all. now onto the topic at hand me myself i do not like the trait tree's as they stand currently i agree that it does take away from the versatility of the game in and of itsself. but another friend of mine did point something out which i personally thought was a good idea. they could have both forms the tree and the buffet. now most would be thinking i am nuts and i am quite liable to agree with them but in this case it does make sense and here is why. now most like the buffet because of the versatility of it and other's like the tree for their own reason's i have not been on as of late and have not had a chance to ask more people then those i talk with outside of the game. but anyway's excuse my off topic rant. now the bonuses such as the damage and other things that are incorporated into the trait tree could stay there while also keeping the open buffet table style that several people do enjoy. instead of the tree's being the foremost of the leveling experience they could be a very nice added bonus to the leveling so that way no one would be left out the people who like the tree's can keep them and the people who like the buffet get it back. yes yes i know most are sitting there thinking that it would take a lot of coding and wasted time and what not to do so and turbine would never go for it. which they would probably be right turbine will not. which in that case hey it happens i do not play as much anymore for the many reason people have listed that they are quitting i still hop on from time to time and play sure i haven't spent any money on it nor am i saying anyone should follow my example that does that do good for you and those that don't good for you as well. as player's we have the choice to stay or to go or in some case's complain or not to complain we have that right as well and i know most of you might disagree with me but that is what it will be or as another saying goes what will be will be. though i am not saying sit there complacent as turbine screw's up their game's or manages to turn their game into something more amazing then what it was when i joined. now back to my idea and onto topic i know msot will complain about my rant or try to critique what i am saying and that is your right as it is mine to voice my own opinion. but i think my friends idea could solve the problem of the people complaining

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    This is also an example of why I made the post I did. Let's say Turbine DOES make the changes that you (generic you) want, and all those players who have been complaining come back. However, now the players that are happy NOW are unhappy, and they all leave, and begin posting on the forums all the things they don't like and how they want Turbine to change it back. Do you see now the point I am trying to make?

    The bottom line is this - How does Turbine choose which group of people to make happy?
    There is only one way, and that is by how much money turbine do or do not make as a result of a change, and we will never know that status, so all we can do is post what we feel about the game, its upto turbine then to decide if that is needed or not.

    But for players to say " you dont like the changes, shut up and leave" doesnt give turbine any recourse should those changes they made go wrong and there are no players left and no feedback to act on. i cant make players come on these forums and post positive feedback, its not the fault of me and other players who post negative feedback those players are not posting here, it was the same in beta the forums were full of negative comments and full of posts saying why they were negative and how they feel they could improve things, there was minimal positive feedback. We heard time and time again that the reason there was no positive feedback was that people who are happy dont post stuff, but that was beta, thats what we were there for, and the same situation is happening now the forums are full of negative comments and people leaving feedback on how to improve the expansion and game as a whole, there posts stating everything is perfect dont change a thing are minimal.

    So when turbine compare their projected profits from HD with actual profits they received then they decide if its best to carry on with where they are going or if they need to have a rethink, either way there gonna need our opinions.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    I wouldn't get to hung up on people who use the troll term, I find people who use that like it has been used here are people who are out of ideas in the discussion and are using it as a cop out. When having a discussion or a debate with someone and they start using that time I smile shows me they realise they have nothing left to offer the discussion and want a way out of it, but rather than admit that they resort to insults and calling people trolls in the hope it will divert attention from the original discussion that they are struggling with.

    Its water off a ducks back, there are some real issues with this expansion and the direction and quality of the game as a whole that the community (and turbine with us as well) need to discuss, that isn't to say people who like the expansion and the direction the game is heading aren't welcome in that discussion, of course they are, truth is the game needs more customers and that means catering for more play styles and anyone who blindly defends their own play style while shouting down any one else who asks for some love of their own, isnt good for the game, raiders and pvp'ers need soloists to fund the game and soloists and lore junkies need raiders and pvp'ers to fund the game as well, no one group can keep the game afloat by themselves and laughing/mocking or cheering off players with "cya can I haz your stuff" or "you wont be missed" comments might seem very clever at first but eventually it will come back and bite you in the rear.
    My sole purpose for taking part in this thread was because I too am trying to like the changes. I know being called a troll here is the equivalent of being told I make perfect sense.

    As I mentioned before my Guardian plays like my warden before the update. It isn't fun to have 50 plus mobs hitting you and take near zero damage. The big battles I have seen them on a friends computer. All I can say is they would not keep me entertained for long unless some major changes are made.

    I would love to give turbine my 40$ and enjoy the xpac but right now it just isn't worth it. Like I said before it feel way too empty for an xpac and maybe should have cost 13.99 instead. Solo quests, yeah I do them to reach 95, but as far as beyond that I don't see this xpac keeping me busy after 95.
    Yeah I know I can run the same old dungeons scaled to 95, or do the Epic Battles. Farming warbands and level 95 mobs, that doesn't excite me in the least bit.
    I know some like to include the class revamp into the xpac features, but to me it's a feature of the GAME rather than the XPAC. I can see much development was put into the class changes, but they do not feel tested in the least bit.

    Like I said I STILL PLAY THE GAME, but for how much longer, that remains to be seen.
    I would much rather play this game than any other on the market. But something has to be done about the quality of not only gameplay but the game overall to keep me playing.

    I think a few simple tweaks in the Class trees and maybe adding some risk of dying in game as well as some meaningful content to do at level 95 and I'll be happy.
    I understand that people are happy with the xpac. I have nothing against that.

    Was my post constructive enough? I used key points to make my case. While I'm not a wordsmith I worded it as positive as possible. And even included disclaimers for those who think I'm insane for not enjoying a half baked xpac.

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    782
    NIce post Minquinn.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    This is also an example of why I made the post I did. Let's say Turbine DOES make the changes that you (generic you) want, and all those players who have been complaining come back. However, now the players that are happy NOW are unhappy, and they all leave, and begin posting on the forums all the things they don't like and how they want Turbine to change it back. Do you see now the point I am trying to make?

    The bottom line is this - How does Turbine choose which group of people to make happy?
    Your mythical group of people have been playing the game from the start with that old system therefore they could not logically have been that unhappy about it after playing for that long, it wasn't a system hoisted on to them after they had been playing happily for years there is a difference.

 

 
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