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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    I tried to like it while playing in the beta. The more I saw, the more I played, the less I liked it.

    I have not actively played any of my 9 Lvl 85 toons on live since beta came out. I am a lifer so it is not like I actually cancel but I have not bought HD, not even with my huge pile of TPs. Have not played since HD came out, I just feel no motivation to log in. With the changes they made to the classes plus the BBs, it just is not fun anymore. The BBs are boring, glorified skirms with RTS aspects tacked on. Have never liked RTS games and if I wanted to play an RTS game I would play a real one, not BBs.

    I moved on to Rift, at least if I am going to play a game with skill trees, I will play one that did them right. I am having a lot of fun with it and their f2p model blows LOTRO's away. The way trait trees were done in HD seems to take the worst features of many other skill tree systems and put them all in one place. If they had to go to a skill tree system, they could have produced a far better system than the mess they came up with.
    I've played Rift quite a bit in my recent break from LOTRO. It's not bad, but I like the trees here better - far too many very small changes to skills in their trees, they are just too 'busy' for me. Anyway, it's a decent game, and nice to have options.
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000002be0/01008/signature.png]Eladrath[/charsig]

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    I've played Rift quite a bit in my recent break from LOTRO. It's not bad, but I like the trees here better - far too many very small changes to skills in their trees, they are just too 'busy' for me. Anyway, it's a decent game, and nice to have options.
    I love the rift trees, there are so many options its fantastic, I am currently running a rouge and I have 3 builds at the minute, one is a pure dps marksman build which is great for raiding but struggles when levelling as he has no survivabilty and the pet can only level to 30. So I made a levelling build which is 50/50 marksman/ranger so I could have my pet level with me further and he tanks much better now, but it took a lot of tinkering to get the balance between a decent pet tank and still maintain good dps. And then i have an assassin build as well which is pretty much like a burg and I swap to that when I fancy a change. I plan on spending a day mucking about with some more rogue builds, but I am having fun with what i have right now, not to mention I have a cleric and a warrior I am levelling as well and they are just as much fun too.

    point is thats what I want from trees, so many options its unbelievable I can never get bored, there are 4 classes, each with 9 souls available to them and you get to choose any 3 of those souls for your build, and can have 3 builds to play with. The flexibility it gives is astounding and each player can fine tune, tinker anything to make it what they want.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjdobs View Post

    As for it being rubbish, there's no issue with someone stating that's how they feel. But why keep telling everyone 'im going, I will i'll go'. Just man up, go. You wont be missed...I still love the game, you don't have too.

    And as for your old saying...whose the bigger fool, the one who still wants to eat his steak (regardless of what you think it tastes like) or the clown stood at the end of the table going 'ha! it tastes rubbish! look at you still eating! idiot....err.. I'd go somewhere else and do something else but, I'd rather hang around here pontificating about how great it used to be until it stopped appealing to me personally...'
    The reason many of us haven't gone yet is because we still love LotRO and we want to see this get fixed. Who's the bigger fool, the one who eats raw steak, or the one who takes it back to the chief to be cooked properly? We're not mocking the people who like the expansion, we're just tying to get the game we know and love, albeit an altered version, back.
    [IMG]https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1379646_409269769172892_1671221629_n.jpg[/IMG]

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aineas. View Post
    I find rift a better bargain in the f2p model, just because it got LOTS and LOTS more to do.
    When you have a budget of $5-$10 a month to play games, then F2P/Premium is a very viable choice and a way to save a lot of money over traditional MMO models. BEFORE F2P in this game I encounted a lot of people in my kinship who left because of financial reasons; yes, those were reasons that they stated outright, I am not just guessing. The subscription fee was too much to pay when out of work; probably the ISP as well when you come down to it. That is what makes this new model a bargain.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    I for example am now playing Rift, yet I Still post here. Why shouldn't I?
    Because it just doens't feel right. If you have left the game then why come back? Are you here to incite more people to leave? Are you recruiting for your new game? Do you feel a need to keep poking at wounds, some sort of schadenfreude? You're not even coming here to add any positive criticism or to seek information about changes you may have missed, but are instead just continuing to tear it down.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by WychHazel View Post
    Prior to MMO's you started with Easy Mode, as you got better you played Normal Mode, then when able, you played Hard Mode. This is a normal approach in all sports.
    Some poeple may do this but it is definitely not all. I always play on normal mode first time, and the second, and third, and so on. Hard mode seems masochistic, the Super Hard modes seem to be about someone proving their masculinity or something. I'm playing the game to have fun, not to compete against it (this isn't pvp). But maybe I'm different, I never understood the competitive drive that so many people have. To me that's what RPGs about about, the character you create is more important than the person behind the screen, instead the action games are the ones who care about the player's reactions times. MMOs all started as RPGs and thus they follow the character oriented model instead of the player oriented one, and they succeed better when they have a cooperative element more than the competitive element.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post
    Don't forget about literally cleaning house for two brothers who will soon be abandoning their home when they evacuate Edoras. That felt epic,
    I liked the quest with the minstrel who asks why you a hero are doing mundane tasks to help people. The point of the quest was that the small things can also be heroic. So the devs definitely know what they are doing there.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Because it just doens't feel right. If you have left the game then why come back? Are you here to incite more people to leave? Are you recruiting for your new game? Do you feel a need to keep poking at wounds, some sort of schadenfreude? You're not even coming here to add any positive criticism or to seek information about changes you may have missed, but are instead just continuing to tear it down.
    It just as right for them to continue to post about the game they wish would change to appeal to them again as it is for you to continue to post that people who don't like the game should find something else and move on. The question could be asked if you're so much in favor of the way things are why aren't you out playing instead of coming to the forum and posting that people should be happy with whatever they've been given? It seems to me you both have the right to be here and post as you like. People who leave the game may come back if things change in a way they find favorable. They have the right to look and lobby for what that might be.

    Most criticism - positive or negative - has been posted by somebody at some point. If we're not to continue to add to it then there would be one post stating "XYZ is a problem because of ABC" and then nobody else is allowed to post on the subject. It would be no different than one person posting "You should all be grateful you have such an awesome new skill tree that gives XYZ and adds ABC" and then nobody is allowed to post about that either. That's not the way it works.

    The forum is for feedback. New people post on a subject which others may feel has been beaten to death, but to the poster it's important. Others chime in - whether for or against - as their opinion dictates. It's all feedback. If any of us are tired of seeing it we have the option to quit reading the forum and doing whatever we find more productive.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Because it just doens't feel right. If you have left the game then why come back? Are you here to incite more people to leave? Are you recruiting for your new game? Do you feel a need to keep poking at wounds, some sort of schadenfreude? You're not even coming here to add any positive criticism or to seek information about changes you may have missed, but are instead just continuing to tear it down.
    Two things.
    1. I believe he's posting here because just like those who still play this game he would rather play this game than rift. Just like some of us that still play the game there is a feeling of uncertainty in game direction.
    2. Positive criticism? How exactly are those of us that play and those who'd like to return suppose to criticism the things we don't like about the game? By simply putting a positive spin on it? If it's bad the developer should hear about it loud and clear.

    Maybe you should enlighten the poster as to the great HD changes so maybe he would consider a return. But as always here on the forums it's seen as a better practice to shoo players away rather than retaining them. That'll help no content get developed!

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Two things.
    1. I believe he's posting here because just like those who still play this game he would rather play this game than rift. Just like some of us that still play the game there is a feeling of uncertainty in game direction.
    2. Positive criticism? How exactly are those of us that play and those who'd like to return suppose to criticism the things we don't like about the game? By simply putting a positive spin on it? If it's bad the developer should hear about it loud and clear.

    Maybe you should enlighten the poster as to the great HD changes so maybe he would consider a return. But as always here on the forums it's seen as a better practice to shoo players away rather than retaining them. That'll help no content get developed!
    Sorry, I disagree. There are only 2 people on my ignore list after 6 years, and guess who one of them is?
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000002be0/01008/signature.png]Eladrath[/charsig]

  11. #86

    ..well at least I didn't pre-order it!!!

    Ya I agree completely.. I've been playing for over 5 years and use to have at least 3 toons at top lvl very shortly after a lvl cap. But starting with Isenguard, and even more worsely so with the Riders expansion, this game has lost all its luster. I barely got my main toon to lvl 85 and couldn't bring myself to lvl another. It's barely an adventure game anymore. Heck, adventure games on consoles have more questing options then this game. And to make it worse, Turbine is taking the time to go back to the old original regions and taking all the options out of those places as well.

    I've spent my last dollar on this game.. To the person who said this expansion isn't any different than the last two, I say that is enough information to make me quit after 5 years of playing and making great friends and having great times. The mines were the last good expansion, mirkwood wasn't too bad, but its been all down hill since then.

    I don't even have to touch the issue on the new skill system and the continual stupefying of the game mechanics for.. for.. who the heck know who they're doing it for...

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danricc View Post

    I don't even have to touch the issue on the new skill system and the continual stupefying of the game mechanics for.. for.. who the heck know who they're doing it for...
    I think in wake of the Hobbit Movie they were hoping to lure in the kiddies and get some allowance money.

  13. #88
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    After having come to peace with the death of raiding and the death of pvmp (for now) and the death of traits as I knew them, the the two things that I had left to look forward to with this xpac were going to be the scenery and the storylines while questing. I enjoyed the political intrigue of the various clans in ROI and I enjoyed the diversity in defending the various towns in ROR and I liked how they all came together in the Hytbold capstone.

    I am currently 87 after a week because I find this current "one quest at a time" thing very tedious and the content of the quests themselves boring. There was one quest in Entwade where three paragraphs of text were employed to tell me to check fish traps, c'mon man. The release of Theoden by Gandalf was underwhelming. Most of the quests I've done were picking up things, and when I did have the odd quest to kill something, I'd either one-shot it or auto attack it to death. This does not feel like a land on the verge of destruction.

    For me, interesting storytelling requires tension, which means my character needs to be put to some form of risk every once in a while. Just not having it here in HD. I hope it improves, but what I'm hearing is disheartening. If nothing else then, I hope this would indicate that we've slid down this slippery slope far enough now where we've hit bottom of the age old casual vs hardcore argument and we can start going back uphill again. I suspect questing is like it is now from the backlash of old Moria, but can't there be some happy medium?

    I almost wish there was an challenge setting on the load screen these days.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    I liked the quest with the minstrel who asks why you a hero are doing mundane tasks to help people. The point of the quest was that the small things can also be heroic. So the devs definitely know what they are doing there.
    Really? O, I love quests like that!

    Yes, small things matter too

    A dwarf NPC once asked me if anyone had ever told me how useful I was, and NO! No one has ever told me that before, even though I had helped every NPC on the way. Even Lobelia!
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    The question could be asked if you're so much in favor of the way things are ...
    I'm not in favor of things the way they are. I'm also not heading over to Rift forums to complain about their game since I'm not playing it.

  16. #91
    Not getting into the discussion, just mentioning what the OP said about mighty heroes welcome at Théoden's, Elrond's and Galadriel's tables playing with kids or killing boars...

    I couldn't be happier about it. Really.
    Think about that Edoras tavern minstrel quest...
    First he mocks you because you're doing boring and stupid things like collecting plants for an old lady... But then he understands - and I guess I always knew what he understands:

    We're mighty heroes because we're not playing some fancy and stupid role killing demi-gods and other weird things you can do on 'your-average-fantasy-RPG'.
    We are heroes because we help those in need. We help the people, we can bring laughter and smiles to children even during war-times. Most of them will bury their own parents soon - if not themselves - and yet we can light hope on their hearts.

    I'm a minstrel, and my character IS from Rohan - something I decided to stand for almost 7 years ago, hoping that one day I'd be able to help my own people through these harsh times. And now I'm doing that...

    So, yes. We're killing boars and looking for orcs inside privies... But we're not doing this because we're being 'mocked'.
    We're doing this because there are thousands of people suffering and having their lives claimed across these beautiful plains and we're one of the few beacons of hope between them and certain doom.

    Yeah.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    2. Positive criticism? How exactly are those of us that play and those who'd like to return suppose to criticism the things we don't like about the game? By simply putting a positive spin on it? If it's bad the developer should hear about it loud and clear.!
    Negative criticism is that which starts assuming the worst and possibly goes down from there. Ie, every possible facet is wrong, or if it's not wrong it's by accident instead of by design. Negative criticism assumes that no change can or will be made to improve things. Positive criticism does not necessarily think everything is right but instead tries to keep an objective view of what is seen (where both "this sucks" as well as "best ever!" are not objective). Of course no one gets everything they want, but it doesn't allow dislike of one feature (trait trees) taint what is seen about all other features. Positive criticism can suggest ways to improve, without implying a total rewrite or conversion to a a preferred style (ie, trait trees are bad but here are some things to improve that could make it better is positive criticism, as it's not asking to accept as is and is also not demanding that it revert and be tossed out entirely).

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Two things.
    1. I believe he's posting here because just like those who still play this game he would rather play this game than rift. Just like some of us that still play the game there is a feeling of uncertainty in game direction.
    2. Positive criticism? How exactly are those of us that play and those who'd like to return suppose to criticism the things we don't like about the game? By simply putting a positive spin on it? If it's bad the developer should hear about it loud and clear.

    Maybe you should enlighten the poster as to the great HD changes so maybe he would consider a return. But as always here on the forums it's seen as a better practice to shoo players away rather than retaining them. That'll help no content get developed!
    I very strongly agree.

    The sea is calling us home...

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Negative criticism is that which starts assuming the worst and possibly goes down from there. Ie, every possible facet is wrong, or if it's not wrong it's by accident instead of by design. Negative criticism assumes that no change can or will be made to improve things. Positive criticism does not necessarily think everything is right but instead tries to keep an objective view of what is seen (where both "this sucks" as well as "best ever!" are not objective). Of course no one gets everything they want, but it doesn't allow dislike of one feature (trait trees) taint what is seen about all other features. Positive criticism can suggest ways to improve, without implying a total rewrite or conversion to a a preferred style (ie, trait trees are bad but here are some things to improve that could make it better is positive criticism, as it's not asking to accept as is and is also not demanding that it revert and be tossed out entirely).
    Way too many words brah. You have to expect many players would be upset with these changes. And I think a lot of posters came to this thread with the intention of trying to make other feel stupid. Put a criticism in the title it draws bees like honey.

    It is hard to post on this forum. Even when my posts are well worded I am still attacked because I don't feel everything is good in the land of make believe. Maybe I should turn over a new leaf and just do what others have done. The game is what it is. Don't like it leave. Then maybe I can troll every negative post and put other down.

    Here's your award winning community.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Here's your award winning community.
    People will read over a minor portion of a post, interpret it any way they see fit and attack you for it. Which direction the game has taken is up for debate, but the one thing which I think we can all agree upon is the direction taken by the community.

    Anyone actually bother to check with the Dragonslayer awards 2013?

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Because it just doens't feel right. If you have left the game then why come back? Are you here to incite more people to leave? Are you recruiting for your new game? Do you feel a need to keep poking at wounds, some sort of schadenfreude? You're not even coming here to add any positive criticism or to seek information about changes you may have missed, but are instead just continuing to tear it down.
    For those of us who play LOTRO along with a host of other games, perhaps you can prescribe us a "minimum" play time or % played that will allow us the opportunity to post on these forums?

    Alternatively if one takes a break from playing said game, does that imply a temporary ban on any postings?

    Or perhaps one needs to be logged on concurrently to this forum and to the game in order to post?

    When you've clarified your rules do let us know.
    <A sig goes here>

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    For those of us who play LOTRO along with a host of other games, perhaps you can prescribe us a "minimum" play time or % played that will allow us the opportunity to post on these forums?

    Alternatively if one takes a break from playing said game, does that imply a temporary ban on any postings?

    Or perhaps one needs to be logged on concurrently to this forum and to the game in order to post?

    When you've clarified your rules do let us know.
    Umm - you actually didn't answer their questions - which were around the purpose of the posts; to help improve the game with constructive criticism or just have numerous long complaint sessions? - repeating the same things over and again and then reminding us of the better game they have gone to.
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000002be0/01008/signature.png]Eladrath[/charsig]

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Because it just doens't feel right. If you have left the game then why come back? Are you here to incite more people to leave? Are you recruiting for your new game? Do you feel a need to keep poking at wounds, some sort of schadenfreude? You're not even coming here to add any positive criticism or to seek information about changes you may have missed, but are instead just continuing to tear it down.
    I have posted plenty of positive stuff, I posted on a thread entitled "your 5 best lotro memories" even started a thread about a dr whos 50 anniversary show, its just you dont want to see things like thta, as for HD I cant post anything positive about it as I dont see anything positive about it, and I am posting negative things in the hope turbine will one day change the direction they are heading and provide a game I may wanna come back too.

    I could swap that argument back to you as well, you only ever post good thongs about the game, constantly ignoring the glaringly obvious problems it has, are you here to try and convince people to stay? are you worried that people are leaving in droves? do you feel a need to keep putting sticking plasters over old wounds in the hope people wont see them? your not even on here providing any constructive feedback, but instead are just continuing to act like all is rosey and the world is full of butterflies and nothing could ever be wrong or in need of change with the game because its lotro.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by trcanberra View Post
    Umm - you actually didn't answer their questions - which were around the purpose of the posts; to help improve the game with constructive criticism or just have numerous long complaint sessions? - repeating the same things over and again and then reminding us of the better game they have gone to.
    As i have said I posted lots of feedback, but people dont want to talk about the feedback because they know its been posted hundreds of times and lots of people want exactly the same thing, its just that they want different things to you so you ignore them.

    Trait trees are way to restrictive they stifle players options and lead them down linear game play routes - They need to at least remove the double cost penalty, or give players more points to spend, whatever they do they need to allow players to get further down a second tree at the very least.

    Big Battles ignore peoples class choices way to much, a guard cant tank , LMs cant cc (or dps as everything dies before inductions go off), healers cant heal, its all about dps, that it dps and a few side quests here and there, they need to be re-thought more in the like to traditional raids that have a need for all classes and the jobs they do. The whole point of these changes was to define the class roles more but then they produce content that completely ignores those roles, make a BB that needs tanking, needs cc, and needs heals along with dps, then maybe people wont be reduced to firing catapults as an end game experience.

    Landscape difficulty - well thats clear where the problem lies, needs a lot of rebalancing. but nerfing the classes will be very unpopular, I think a 50/50 compromise between nerfing the class dps and upping mob toughness is best.

    PvP - same as above, but nothing can be done here till freep dps is fixed.

    From what I have read in the forums and what my old kinnies have told me these are the things that are bothering people the most and the things that need addressing ASAP. To be honest they were the same issues we were seeing in beta as well.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjdobs View Post
    Nah...you missed the point. Call a complaint a constructive criticism, it may help to get changes made in a game where it is constantly developed like this. Spend 40 quid on a console game, you don't have that option. You really do get what you're given.

    So I'm not saying no one can complain at all or that you have to still actively play it to show an interest. I didn't even say 'man up' in the context of accepting everything the way it is. I said it to those who keep saying 'i'm off'. We are all moaning buggers at some point and will moan, it's human nature, the joy of first world problems..... I was responding to people saying 'it's rubbish I'm going' then staying to tell you it's rubbish. I accept the first part, don't get the need for the second....
    Imo, those that are about to leave, have left, are playing another game and still post here, are people who desperately want improvements, so that they ARE able to come back and enjoy themselves. I would consider these people to be the best advocates of Lotro, .... because they care, to keep checking back, to show an interest.... to expose their feelings. (Even when they are fully aware, there are going to be those aggressively defensive people that will shoot them down and attempt to belittle them.) These people are those, that care so much about the game, they don't want to let go.... to give up... to accept unwise development..... And whats more.... they still have faith, still believe in our developers to 'get things right'. They keep trying, again and again, giving lots of emotional energy to rally for what they deem positive change.

    Its simple, if they did not care.... they would walk away and not look back. Which type of people would you prefer in our game, (even if you didn't agree with their views) those that don't much care about what game they play, the development of those games, or those that will continue to rally for positive acceptable change, even when they have for the moment, begun to play another. This shows the emense pull of Lotro, you can play another game, do other activities, but still care so much that you will put time and effort into reading and posting on the forum.

 

 
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