For example, I have a lifetime account but have still spent more on TP for it than I would if I was paying monthly for VIP.
Up until HD beta I also subbed another account VIP, again it works out I spent more on TP than I did on my sub.
For example, I have a lifetime account but have still spent more on TP for it than I would if I was paying monthly for VIP.
Up until HD beta I also subbed another account VIP, again it works out I spent more on TP than I did on my sub.
Moria impressed me with all the many aspects mentioned by someone else earlier in this thread, but not the raids as I never really saw them.
Sic in Latin means 'so' or 'thus' or 'in this way. This makes no sense in the context of the skill.
In this case it is a corruption of the verb 'to seek'. This makes perfect sense as the phrase is a direct imperative given to hunting animals, just like 'sit!' or 'roll over!'.
Maybe PvP is an exception, those people would pay thousands of dollars if it let them get ahead.
I'm lifetime also, and I don't spend TP except for expansion and some minor things, becuase there's nothing I need. Certainly I would not pay CASH for TP, that's almost absurd to consider. The only people I know who spend more than a VIP sub cost per month are those players who have multiple subscriptions, but that would apply without the store as well.
If you want to save money this game is one of the best bargains out there. Turbine makes money off of volume with F2P.
- there's 8 or so instances at max dificulty, t3 instances. Then there's attached a daily amount of marks for a random one of those. Besides that you can enter the others specificly for getting gear.
- bunch of raids in t1 and t2, not everybody wants it, but someone getting to cap could actually do them to keep busy.
- dungeon armour cost about 4k, the daily marks about 400 for the dungeon. From raids you get more marks ofc, armour pieces ranging from 15k to 22k.
- best runes with stats you can apply on armour pieces gated behind rep. Rep you can reach through quests, so called carnages (killing 12 or so mobs of same kind), dailies. Which are about 8 or so factions you need em with.
- best cloak and relics are gated behind rep, you need to do so called rifts (no equivelant in lotro, but kinda like warbands) where you can go solo, small group or raid.
- you have the crafting system which gives armour what is worthwhile to get, you got daily crafting quests to get the tokens needed. Takes a couple of em for lower ranked recipes, more days for higher ranked.
- tree system allows you to customize your char and playstyle. But still takes a bit of practise and time to get it maxed and get it exactly how you want it. So you can choose from what, like 15 t1 dungeons and another 8 or so t2 dungeons.
rep is varying from something of 10k to like 100k or so (don't remember, with varying intervals: 10k, 25k, 35k, 60k... etc) so in effect you'll be up about to 200k rep or more even. a daily rep quest gives about 250 rep for a faction. So takes time :P
Ofcourse it has it flaws, but not the point. Point is, in that game you have options about what you want to do. You can do a day of rifts for rep, save up the daily dungeon rewards (total of 7) and do a day of dungeons, you can have a day of crafting etc. Or just do some crafting, a dungeon, a rift etc. And it takes a lot of time to get it finished. So basicly after hitting cap there's still a lot to do... but you could Always lvl up an alt. However, that game gives options of what you can do. If you're bored of the 1 thing, just go do something else. This way you are farming and grinding, but because there are options, you can vary it a lot so it doesn't feel like it's a boring thing. This is exactly what lotro doesn't have. Lotro has some quest to level up, then you get to cap and you have the big battles, a new feature, which a lot of people don't like.... just face it, lots do, but also LOTS just don't. And if you're at level cap and actually need to look for things to do rightaway thats a sad thing. Also in rift there's a point where you're going to be done ofcourse, but not after 1 hour of lvl'ing up. ROR was ultimately sad in that: 5 dailies which took about half an hour to finish including all the rep. 3 instances at max level, rest revamped stuff. The list of things to do was short and is now shorter.... THIS is what lotro LACKS so badly.
In every game there's repeatable content. But you can make it fun or you can make it a grind.... Imagine yourself being a factory worker: is it more fun to do the repeatable with music or without?
I do not waste my own time or time of the others by stating opinions. That's a fact. I hope it will get changed.
As for it being rubbish, there's no issue with someone stating that's how they feel. But why keep telling everyone 'im going, I will i'll go'. Just man up, go. You wont be missed...I still love the game, you don't have too.
And as for your old saying...whose the bigger fool, the one who still wants to eat his steak (regardless of what you think it tastes like) or the clown stood at the end of the table going 'ha! it tastes rubbish! look at you still eating! idiot....err.. I'd go somewhere else and do something else but, I'd rather hang around here pontificating about how great it used to be until it stopped appealing to me personally...'
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some beef steak to tuck into....
The language Tolkien used can not, in any way, be compared to Morte D'Arthur or Beowulf. The Hobbits, especially, sound very "modern rural" (As in 30s/40s modern) in their language use, and I could certainly see Farmer Maggot use "Sic'em".
Try reading Beowulf, the original. It has Æ Ø and Å in it and whatnot.
This idea that people who dont like the game should just leave is laughable, if that happened you wouldnt have a game to play, like it or not you need the "haters" and "naysayers" to fund this game because you cant do it yourself, so maybe you should start engaging them in a discussion as to what they would like from an MMO, who knows maybe one day turbine would start to cater for them again and maybe they would start spending money here again and the things you like about the game would benefit as well.
One thing is for certain when you tell one person "Just man up, go. You wont be missed" your telling the same thing to everyone who was planning to post a complaint the same thing and all they will do is up and leave silently, and so will the next guy and the next guy and the guy after that and eventually there wont be anyone left to pay for your game, then they will be missed.
I have friends that spend a lot a month on things like a Gym membership, or go to the pub every other night or whatever. It's their choice.
If I'm playing around 20+ hrs a week, I have no problem with paying around £10 - £15 extra some weeks for doing so if it adds extra enjoyment to my game, and if everybody paid the least they could, this and any other F2P game would simply fold. I recently was talking to friends about Candy Crush. No one could believe I spend 69p (yes a huge amount) to open up the next set of levels rather than do 3 quests over 3 days. None of them had spent a penny on the game but happily played it for hours every week. I don't have to pay, I pay because I like the game and want to support the developers.
Lotro, I used to spend a fair bit on things like resetting tasks when it was 50TP, I didn't have to, but I had fun. When they got greedy and doubled the price, I stopped buying them.
I created a new RK a couple on the release of HD, I had around 5000 TP left on my lifetime. I spent the lot on upgrading vault space and still didn't have enough to upgrade it all the way (and I always use in game gold if I can).
Then there's experience disablers for most of my characters
Those two things alone on say 3 alts would cost way more than the free TP I would get in two years with my lifetime.
There was my shared storage updates. I also bought a few deed accelerator for my alts for some of the grey mobs that take forever to get due to lack of mobs
I unlocked additional legendary weapon slots
etc etc etc.
None of it on cosmetics, none of it I consider a waste as this games given me literally days of enjoyment over the years
Actually it is the huge mistake that was made right at the beginning of MMO's, which turned the concept of gaming on its head.
The reward culture, increasing level caps, gearflation, and ability inflation. Progressive Easy Mode, in other words. Prior to MMO's you started with Easy Mode, as you got better you played Normal Mode, then when able, you played Hard Mode. This is a normal approach in all sports. The best horses get handicapped, and if the handicapper gets it spot on, all the horses cross the line at the same time. You don't put a Heavyweight boxer in the ring with a Featherweight (a few people may pay to see the result, but they have issues that probably need serious professional medical attention). You don't put an amateur league soccer team on the pitch with a Premier Division team. Etc. Etc.
UO initially took a different path (e.g. a highly skilled GM Smith could make gear that was competitive with the best drops for a while, once you learned how to crit and filter your output), but then rapidly fell for the big mistake - which wasn't the adoption of Trammel, that actually saved the game, with Siege Perilous server always there to deliver what Felucca was supposedly all about).
The first one to get the levelling right, was Dark Age of Camelot. You hit level 50, and that was it. Which meant much of the original content was playable at level 50, and most of each expansion stayed playable. Unfortunately DAoC also fell into the trap of gear and ability inflation, which drove playerbase away in droves.
Bottom line, the cure for sucking as a player, is to become a better player. NOT pander to a very tiny minority that see gaming as a full time job, where they somehow 'deserve' to be rewarded with God Mode items and abilities, just for turning up.
All this approach to gaming has done, is destroy player skill and preclude acquiring real skill, and also destroyed any concept of Sportsmanship in the process.
This is why I now exclusively solo, and as much as possible stick with what I can craft. If I can no longer play and be entertained with what I can craft, I go to another game.
That said, even though deeply unhappy with a cap increase to level 95 (it's touch and go whether I end up leaving over it, and it is very close to the edge), I am impressed with the rationalisation of skills that has been done with HD (sure there's fine tuning to do, but that's normal), and am also positive to the changes to crafting, etc.
My favourite characters in MMO's have been healers and casters, but in LotRO I just didn't get on with the LM, RK or Minstrel (to the point I had deleted some). I just made a new RK and Minstrel, and they are transformed to the point I will be playing them (yet to try the LM again, but I will).
To me LotRO has the foundations of a fantastic game, and if the junk is stripped out and the level cap rolled back to say the entrance to Moria level (say go in at lvl 45 and come out at 50), I think it can become truly outstanding.
I am also a PvP fanatic, but entrenched Easy Mode means I will never PvP in LotRO. So that needs sorting too.
Game Companies have got to stop pandering to the small number of people that simply refuse to learn how to play, and who rely on being 'gifted' with 'I Win' buttons and gear. The more you play, the better you get, and I would honestly prefer to see positive handicapping so skilled players can still have fun playing with and against less skilled players, with the less skilled players able to win if they have a good day and play better than the skilled players.
That's how people learn, and all negative handicapping does is deskill everybody. Including the devs.
So I'm not saying no one can complain at all or that you have to still actively play it to show an interest. I didn't even say 'man up' in the context of accepting everything the way it is. I said it to those who keep saying 'i'm off'. We are all moaning buggers at some point and will moan, it's human nature, the joy of first world problems..... I was responding to people saying 'it's rubbish I'm going' then staying to tell you it's rubbish. I accept the first part, don't get the need for the second....
If you don't like things and want changes, then tell Turbine why you don't like things, its no good saying you don't like something in the hope the developers will change things if you don't tell them what you want changing, they can't guess.
Me I cancelled my vip and went to another game, turbine lost a paying customer, it may only be one customer but its the biggest "protest" (for want of a better word) that an individual can give turbine, on top of that I have left many many posts and an e-mail to them stating exactly why I have taken my custom elsewhere, will it make a difference? probably not, am I so up myself to think turbine will change anything just because I stopped giving them my money? of course not. But if they get the same feedback over and over again from lots of players then who knows.
However I would join in with your original point now I understand what you were getting at better, If you dont like the game, tell them why and move on elsewhere,that doesnt mean you cant post your feelings here, but believe me the lore aside there are lots of other options out there, try them you may find something that suits you better , I know I have.
I tried to like it while playing in the beta. The more I saw, the more I played, the less I liked it.
I have not actively played any of my 9 Lvl 85 toons on live since beta came out. I am a lifer so it is not like I actually cancel but I have not bought HD, not even with my huge pile of TPs. Have not played since HD came out, I just feel no motivation to log in. With the changes they made to the classes plus the BBs, it just is not fun anymore. The BBs are boring, glorified skirms with RTS aspects tacked on. Have never liked RTS games and if I wanted to play an RTS game I would play a real one, not BBs.
I moved on to Rift, at least if I am going to play a game with skill trees, I will play one that did them right. I am having a lot of fun with it and their f2p model blows LOTRO's away. The way trait trees were done in HD seems to take the worst features of many other skill tree systems and put them all in one place. If they had to go to a skill tree system, they could have produced a far better system than the mess they came up with.
I'm pretty sure the major complaint with this xpac is the lack of overall content. While I just came back last night after a 2 week break I can easily say seeing most kinnies at 95 already is disheartening. I was the first player in our kin to reach level 85. That took 6 days. At least we had Hytbold back then to keep us busy. While I have yet to buy HD. It's my understanding that spam running the beginning of Sword HAlls is the new power level. I've seen some of the content so far and heard the tales and I'm glad I didn't preorder. Anyone defending the price tag of this content should really look back and evaluate what we used to get for the same price or less (mirkwood).
Other problems? My Guardian is more over powered than my warden was at level 85. I understand the content is easy but I was able to pull entire crafting instances last night in a single pull. My Guard is still level 85 the mobs are 85. I never lost more than 500 health with 14 bleeds on me and at least 40 mobs hitting me at a time (not sure how many in the entire instance.) I know a lot of players who defend the removing of challenge from the game by saying make your own difficulty. It tried. What should I try next soloing a 6 man and finishing in 3 days?
Last edited by Minquinn; Nov 26 2013 at 12:29 PM.
That said, even pretending you had used "a minority" and "a majority" (in that order), I am very much under the impression that the jury is still out, and will likely be for some time, regarding the question of wether your presumption (and it is nothing more than that, at this time) actually holds.
Back when the game had challenging group and solo content, what you call the "entitlement generation" showed up and demanded they be catered for, seeing they all pay the same and similar arguments. They simply refused to accept the fact that a diversity of content/difficulty could be called for and asked time and again that stuff be changed to in fact fit more into how they thought it should be.
Unfortunately, and notwithstanding your assertion that this isn't how life is, it actually happened that way. Which is what some of these recent threads would be about.
I think those of us who have played the game a long time are plagued with a bit of sadness in the way the game has changed...lost its soul even
I completely appreciate the work that the devs that still work on Lotro have done. Once again, they built a breathtaking rendition of one of the most important places in Middle Earth with Helm's Deep. It really is so well done. Unfortunately, the game feels sort of empty now for me. Lots of reasons listed in this thread contribute to that feeling.
Personally, I have played the game since SoA. I took a break when SWTOR launched in Dec 2011 and then returned again after a few short months. However, the last 2 expansions left me (and many others who were faithful players) feeling unhappy about the direction of the game. For me, the lack of any development in PvP sealed the deal and I moved on to SWTOR as my main game permanently, but I do return for every expansion to try again. Negligence, gross mismanagement, and missed opportunity at best with regard to PvP specifically.
I definitely remember the attachment so many of us had to the game back when MoM launched. First big expansion; worried about what would happen to our characters as we leveled to 60; excitement about seeing Moria finally, what was rumored to be literally the most spectacular expansion in MMO history (it was). There was so much to do in MoM. Granted there were bad mistakes too (Radiance...epic PvP imbalances) but that expansion was so full of everything you could want in terms of PvE content - instances, lair raids (Dar Narbugud didn't come with MoM launch but later with Lothlorien as we left the Mines). I leveled every alt I had to 60 - and continued to PvP. Never ever was bored or felt like I just couldn't level alts through the content (like now).
I loved Mirkwood as well. DG was a dangerous place to be in terms of landscape. Also a challenging and entertaining raid. I think Mirkwood was the last expansion I really enjoyed fully. Expansions that came later are also when interest in the game plummeted in the gaming media, and the game began to hemorrhage players - raiding kins began to disappear. F2P had to be next.
I can't blame everything on F2P. I believe in the model. It's archaic to have a subscription-only model, really. I am glad it has made them money. Unfortunately the way it was implemented, well for me, that was just the end. Anything "pay to win" kills games because it removes all integrity in the product. SWTOR so far has done an incredible job at balancing that. They only sell items that are cosmetic/vanity related. No uncraftable pots; no guaranteed crit scrolls, no stats, no weapon boosts, etc.
Anyway, for me HD is disappointing in terms of content and feeling "epic" (I mean those mobs in the big battles don't even aggro on me...yawn). I wish Lotro all the best, but playing big battles over and over again as content can't sustain me personally and I can't imagine the grind to bring all my characters up to max level (most are languishing at level 65-75 where the expansions lost their quality). They still build a very beautiful game - probably the most beautiful game I will ever play. But it feels so hollow now to me. I definitely fondly remember the fun PvP, the amazing full raids (Rift, DN, DG, OD, etc.), and the sense that we were truly part of the story. I hope the upcoming content brings back some of that old feel! I can't shake the feeling that it has just lost its Tolkien soul.
I can agree in some points and in the same time disagree. [ps. sorry for mispell and bad english in post]
1. I appreciate that you are trying to tell a story, however the linear quest line.
- Its just that they tell a epic story from a book that it needs to be linear. Try read a book and skip around all over it and it become nonsens. In Helms Deep they have approved the amount of separate quests and also several sidequests that you can take instead in any order. You do not have to go like a train. Its a choice imo.
2. Crafting material icons for tier 9 exactly the same.
- Its not nice but it was the same in other expansions and they fixed it in update. Maby short of time or maby lazyness but they have fixed it.
3. So Im 95...now what??? I cant PVP as I have no 95 audacity armour. I could do HD....cant quite bring myself to call them 'big battles', as they are just slightly modified skirmishes.....but I didn't even need to level to do these. Go on one of the endlessly advertised Sambrog farms? Hell no, got fed up with those prior to the update when at least I earnt the seals you have stolen.
- The big battles are aloth other than skirmished if you done some of them and get some rank and skill. In Skirmishes you just run and slap mobs. Here you have 3 new skill threes to play with, catapults, sidemissions and lots of tactics. I like them aloth after some initial struggle. Now they are fun and interresting to solve and they follow the story and are beautiful to watch.
4. So Im a legendary hero, slayer of dragons, welcome at the tables of Théoden, Galadriel and Elrond......and you would have me inspect toilets, run about after children and .......kill more boars????
- I agree here. To many getting items and talk to children and morons. I want to ride with the king and fight! But hey, heres also a choice. You can skip them if you dont like them and go with the ones you want and do big battles. It must be a pain to be creative and there is sno much great ideas out there in the comunity. I really hope they add more single missions to explore out in the beaytiful landscape in coming updates.
5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.
- Lots of mysterious text and NPC talk have slipped. I hope they clean this up if it is incorrect. The "Golf swing" emote from Enedwaith is a good example. But heck it is at the same time quite funny to play with and also here its a choice to use it.
I like the landscape, music and many details. Ofc ther can be more of the goodies and that they connect the older places as they did with Bree changes and such. I had loved more single quests random in landscape for fellowships (The quest Monster or Madness is great) but there is warbands to slay also and exploration of places like Dorr-Shatroful was a surprise but could be more of a challange to do. I also think the mobs and difficality in Helms Deep was way to easy to be a "great" adventur. I really miss the things for the Kinship like housing, items and meeting updates right now.
It's strange. I only see people who dislike Helm's Deep on the forums, but so far in game I've only met people who like it (Helm's Deep expansion), so why aren't any of those people writing on the forums too? But maybe they're too busy trying out the Epic Battles? Hey! Come to the forums and write Epic Battle guides for me!
When it comes to the skill changes, I've met one or two who had their whole game destroyed but who will try to get used to the change, and among the rest: most of them like the change, one or two love it a lot, and a few don't know what they think yet (I'm one of those but probably for a different reason)
I can't comment on the new area since I'm too low to go there yet but I've heard people say that it looks awesome and they've laughed at some funny quests so I'm curious but it's a long way off for me.
I can't really say if I like the changes to the skills/traits yet either since the DPS is set higher on purpose to make it less frustrating to play while they tweak the things that isn't working properly when it comes to how the different classes are at the moment. I can just hope that they'll add some sort of defense to my minstrel if they lower the DPS, because at the moment that's the only reason I can do solo quests of a lot lower level than me. I got turned into glass!
;) [COLOR="#9999ff"]“There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb[/COLOR]
"I think those of us who have played the game a long time are plagued with a bit of sadness in the way the game has changed...lost its soul even"
I think you are wrong. I think SOME OF YOU who have played the game a long time ...
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