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  1. #1

    I am trying to like it......but...

    I am really trying to like LOTRO after Helms Deep, but having just got 1 character to 95, am now suffering a lack of things to do and general apathy and groaning at the thought of bringing another toon up from 85. In short, I think you have now killed off the 6 year relationship we have had, you have destroyed the very essence of LOTRO, and the reason we enjoyed playing the game (and being in a position to 'look down on' button mashing, mindless players from far more inferior games!). You have released this Xpac with the minimum of care and attention to detail (it was always the little things that made LOTRO so special), and with the longest list of known faults to date. These points more than any, show that despite the corporate PR smokescreen of player councils, you really have very little respect for 'me as a player', but only 'me as a bearer of a wallet'.

    Some points:

    1. I appreciate that you are trying to tell a story, however the linear quest line (ie complete one, be directed to the next that is only active when the first has been completed) has killed any sense of exploration, discovery or free will. If I wanted to run on rails without thinking,I could play a platform game, not a MMO.

    2. Crafting material icons for tier 9 exactly the same as tier 8......the fact that someone actually made a decision to do this beggars belief, and brings your wider QA and supervision into question

    3. So Im 95...now what??? I cant PVP as I have no 95 audacity armour. I could do HD....cant quite bring myself to call them 'big battles', as they are just slightly modified skirmishes.....but I didn't even need to level to do these. Go on one of the endlessly advertised Sambrog farms? Hell no, got fed up with those prior to the update when at least I earnt the seals you have stolen.

    4. So Im a legendary hero, slayer of dragons, welcome at the tables of Théoden, Galadriel and Elrond......and you would have me inspect toilets, run about after children and .......kill more boars????

    5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.

    So after 6 years, I always thought it would be a rage quit.....never envisaged it would just be a casual and apathetic walking away with just a sight twinge of sadness....
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0100000b72f5/signature.png]Rhakshasa[/charsig]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/user-17670/"]Blogging a view of the Moors[/URL] - updated 23 Mar 12

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    1. I appreciate that you are trying to tell a story, however the linear quest line (ie complete one, be directed to the next that is only active when the first has been completed) has killed any sense of exploration, discovery or free will. If I wanted to run on rails without thinking,I could play a platform game, not a MMO.
    It is true that it doesn't feel like exploration, but the story isn't as bad as I thought it would be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    2. Crafting material icons for tier 9 exactly the same as tier 8......the fact that someone actually made a decision to do this beggars belief, and brings your wider QA and supervision into question
    What it does, means more to me than what icon it has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    3. So Im 95...now what??? I cant PVP as I have no 95 audacity armour. I could do HD....cant quite bring myself to call them 'big battles', as they are just slightly modified skirmishes.....but I didn't even need to level to do these. Go on one of the endlessly advertised Sambrog farms? Hell no, got fed up with those prior to the update when at least I earnt the seals you have stolen.
    As for PVP, I completely agree, they should have put the armour in there, although that would be hard because with all these changes on freepclasses they don't know how it will affect the pvp and wanted to wait with the gear until they knew if freeps get blown or destroy creeps to easy. And yes I know that's a lame excuse of Turbine, but it also makes some sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    4. So Im a legendary hero, slayer of dragons, welcome at the tables of Théoden, Galadriel and Elrond......and you would have me inspect toilets, run about after children and .......kill more boars????
    I had the same thought.. but after all, that's what a MMO is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.
    Can't really comment on this, but also here I think what the skill does, means more to me than what icon it has, or what it is called.
    [center][URL=http://s1170.photobucket.com/user/Glohir/media/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png.html][IMG]http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r524/Glohir/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png[/IMG][/URL][/center]

  3. #3
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    "Oren" is a name I'm familiar with in these haunts. I have to say it's not a name given to wild speculation and attention grabbing fits. This post should surprise me, but as it so ably expresses, even that level of immersion has long since faded away. (I'm amazed someone had the temerity to parse the OP with what is supposed to appear to be a "well-considered" response. But, it's apples and oranges. I know people who are fascinated with watching traffic lights change...if you say it's boring, they'll proclaim, "No it's not!" It is.)

    I did quit at the release of Riders of Rohan, as I figured they'd over-articulate the Roharrim, and they didn't disappoint. Every item in the update is named for a middling officer who led nothing really, (in the BOOK - not the MOVIE). Gear with his name on it surpasses anything found in Lorien. It's nauseatingly annoying. Having one more LEGENDARY ITEM to keep up with, mindlessly click to roll relics for, divine the meaning of the descriptions of features and discern if they're of any value at all. So, yeah, I did go ahead and purchase the rest of the game up to Helm's Deep. Nostalgia? Maybe. Wishful thinking? Probably.

    I'm not buying Helm's Deep. I suspect it's as Oren says. It's also priced way beyond its possible value. And, I'm certain this is what becomes of things when you refuse to pay the talent what they're worth. They walk out on you, and you're left to hire the bargain basement wannabees lined up outside the door. This is proof there's a country mile between designing a GAME and improvising a business model that meets the approval of the great corporate GODS.

    Yeah. Not rage quit. Just sort of a wistful moving on up the road. "Move along. There's nothing to see here." Yes, officer. Right away.
    Last edited by Astralman; Nov 25 2013 at 06:34 AM.
    [center][font=Verdana][color=#BC8F8F][b][I]Meddle not in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger[/I][/b][/color][/font][/center]

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.
    It is a corruption of the word 'seek'. Used as a command for hunting dogs and the like. I believe it is somewhat archaic, and I am sure Tolkien would have been aware of it, great etymologist that he was!
    Oryette

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by commanderjerkface View Post
    It is a corruption of the word 'seek'. Used as a command for hunting dogs and the like. I believe it is somewhat archaic, and I am sure Tolkien would have been aware of it, great etymologist that he was!
    First usage in the mid 19th century - so I am OK with it (and a great skill by the way - well done devs).
    The Balrog lives!! Oh, and give MECCG a try.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000002be0/01008/signature.png]Eladrath[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

    I don't know what is wrong with the current MMO Developer mindset, but in an attempt to be mainstream and accessible they've (not only Turbine) deviated so far and wide from the original MMO mindset that I'm no longer convinced I'm actually playing one. This is not about forced grouping, this is not about my pet peevee crafting interdependancy. It's about player interaction having become absolete. Character customization -no, I'm not talking about hairstyles, I'm talking about digits- being as elaborate as first-person shooters. It's about a vast and expanding universe being not so vast and expanding-as-long-as-you're-willing-to-pay-on-top-of-subscription-fees expanding. It's about exploration being limited to things related to quests and quests alone, exploration being an afterthought. It's about freedom being limited in each and every way, eg. linear questing.

    There was a time where one had to camp a spawn for days (Everquest anyone?). There was a time where quest were non-existant (Shadowbane anyone?). A time when griefing was almost obligatory if you wanted to keep up (Ultima Online?). Worlds accessible only if you paid the entry fee (subscription). Numbers by the dozen on every tab you opened. I can understand current generation MMOs want to stray from that path a bit, open the genre up to a broader audience thus increasing revenue. I'm simply wondering just how far one can stray before one has gone too far from the principle concept?

  7. #7
    Well articulated OP.

    Concerning Sic'Em - I agree completely. It does not feel in place at all. I'm not one of the Tolkien specialists, however I did read everything what is available. Can you imagine this word in Beowulf, Arthurian Legends or Silmarillion? It would be OK for some kind of chainsaw massacre movie though. There were many good suggestions how to rename it during BETA, why it didn't happen is hard to understand. For me attention to detail and deep immersion are important things. Sic'Em, other new skill names and even skill descriptions seem not polished enough and superficial in comparison with how it was done before. I still hope it will be changed and polished during the coming updates.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by commanderjerkface View Post
    It is a corruption of the word 'seek'. Used as a command for hunting dogs and the like. I believe it is somewhat archaic, and I am sure Tolkien would have been aware of it, great etymologist that he was!
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...k_em_come_from

    According to the online dictionary, it is a form of the phrase "seek them", and sic is a verb. Originated 1835-46"
    So it is relatively recent and not from the kind of time JRRT envisaged his mythology to be set in.

  9. #9
    Ok some of your observations are true and right.. But your main problem is not in turbine is in your play.

    First lotro did nothing different from the last 2 expansions for you to feel different. IF one can tell that there is something different is that actually after RoI this is the first time that we get Instanced play along with the expansion. The last 2 years there were a lot of complains and "i want my money back" when instances where coming later. Didnt see anyone appreciate that this time we got them on time.

    Your second major problem is that you and maybe some other people rushed to go 95 in a day or a week. Your problem, not lotros. MY leader is still 86. Meaning that is like eating a chocolate very fast, ending it, now you want more as you see your fellow man still enjoying the first piece.

    And what is the alternative? No increase to lvl cap? Or 95 more just to keep you busy? Or 10 new raids which again wouldnt be able to do since very few are 95 so far?

    of course crafting and pvmp are a bit dull at the moment you are right on that.. but that didnt start on HD.

    So my advise for you is work your crafting, work the Big battles cause when the big mass hit 95 soon, you ll see groups. Better be ready for that. And if you cant find that enjoyable maybe try another game? Cheers.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelethor View Post
    Ok some of your observations are true and right.. But your main problem is not in turbine is in your play.

    .
    Actually, you are missing the points in my post. For what its worth, I did not 'rush' to 95 either....I simply followed the linear quest line, without xp boosts or buffs other than the daily, read each quest and did it - it took about 25 hours of play...not really worth the £40, but there you go, I will chalk that one up.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0100000b72f5/signature.png]Rhakshasa[/charsig]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/user-17670/"]Blogging a view of the Moors[/URL] - updated 23 Mar 12

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...k_em_come_from



    So it is relatively recent and not from the kind of time JRRT envisaged his mythology to be set in.
    OP's question was whether Tolkien himself would recognise it, not if was lore appropriate. It's an anachronism for sure, but certainly not a 'redneck joke', as the OP put it.
    Oryette

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Astralman View Post
    "Oren" is a name I'm familiar with in these haunts. I have to say it's not a name given to wild speculation and attention grabbing fits. This post should surprise me, but as it so ably expresses, even that level of immersion has long since faded away. (I'm amazed someone had the temerity to parse the OP with what is supposed to appear to be a "well-considered" response. But, it's apples and oranges. I know people who are fascinated with watching traffic lights change...if you say it's boring, they'll proclaim, "No it's not!" It is.)

    I did quit at the release of Riders of Rohan, as I figured they'd over-articulate the Roharrim, and they didn't disappoint. Every item in the update is named for a middling officer who led nothing really, (in the BOOK - not the MOVIE). Gear with his name on it surpasses anything found in Lorien. It's nauseatingly annoying. Having one more LEGENDARY ITEM to keep up with, mindlessly click to roll relics for, divine the meaning of the descriptions of features and discern if they're of any value at all. So, yeah, I did go ahead and purchase the rest of the game up to Helm's Deep. Nostalgia? Maybe. Wishful thinking? Probably.

    I'm not buying Helm's Deep. I suspect it's as Oren says. It's also priced way beyond its possible value. And, I'm certain this is what becomes of things when you refuse to pay the talent what they're worth. They walk out on you, and you're left to hire the bargain basement wannabees lined up outside the door. This is proof there's a country mile between designing a GAME and improvising a business model that meets the approval of the great corporate GODS.

    Yeah. Not rage quit. Just sort of a wistful moving on up the road. "Move along. There's nothing to see here." Yes, officer. Right away.
    I wish you dissenters would move on. But you're still here.

    If in real life I walked into work tomorrow and either 'rage quit' or 'quietly moved on', I wouldn't then turn up the next day to talk to my old colleagues about why I left. I'd just go.

    Seeya...
    If in danger from Red, Call Glod.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjdobs View Post
    I wish you dissenters would move on. But you're still here.

    If in real life I walked into work tomorrow and either 'rage quit' or 'quietly moved on', I wouldn't then turn up the next day to talk to my old colleagues about why I left. I'd just go.

    Seeya...
    They PAID for this rubbish, they are entitled to complain at what they see as a distinct lack of value for money. Of course you could always keep your opinion to yourself in the way you expect them to do. But you won't!

    There is an old saying about Bull#### and Beefsteak. You just carry on eating!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjdobs View Post
    I wish you dissenters would move on. But you're still here.

    If in real life I walked into work tomorrow and either 'rage quit' or 'quietly moved on', I wouldn't then turn up the next day to talk to my old colleagues about why I left. I'd just go.

    Seeya...
    Us lifetimers who get to play the game for free, get free TP to buy the expac and who still come on and have a moan about game-related stuff must be quite annoying for you.
    <A sig goes here>

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    I am really trying to like LOTRO after Helms Deep, but having just got 1 character to 95, am now suffering a lack of things to do and general apathy and groaning at the thought of bringing another toon up from 85. In short, I think you have now killed off the 6 year relationship we have had, you have destroyed the very essence of LOTRO, and the reason we enjoyed playing the game (and being in a position to 'look down on' button mashing, mindless players from far more inferior games!). You have released this Xpac with the minimum of care and attention to detail (it was always the little things that made LOTRO so special), and with the longest list of known faults to date. These points more than any, show that despite the corporate PR smokescreen of player councils, you really have very little respect for 'me as a player', but only 'me as a bearer of a wallet'.

    Some points:

    1. I appreciate that you are trying to tell a story, however the linear quest line (ie complete one, be directed to the next that is only active when the first has been completed) has killed any sense of exploration, discovery or free will. If I wanted to run on rails without thinking,I could play a platform game, not a MMO.

    2. Crafting material icons for tier 9 exactly the same as tier 8......the fact that someone actually made a decision to do this beggars belief, and brings your wider QA and supervision into question

    3. So Im 95...now what??? I cant PVP as I have no 95 audacity armour. I could do HD....cant quite bring myself to call them 'big battles', as they are just slightly modified skirmishes.....but I didn't even need to level to do these. Go on one of the endlessly advertised Sambrog farms? Hell no, got fed up with those prior to the update when at least I earnt the seals you have stolen.

    4. So Im a legendary hero, slayer of dragons, welcome at the tables of Théoden, Galadriel and Elrond......and you would have me inspect toilets, run about after children and .......kill more boars????

    5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.

    So after 6 years, I always thought it would be a rage quit.....never envisaged it would just be a casual and apathetic walking away with just a sight twinge of sadness....
    I have played this game for 6 years, I tried other games and took breaks. These changes are by far the worst decision Turbine made. I have no desire to play. All my friends leaving for good because the changes changed everything we loved about out characters. It's a very sad and apathetic ending to many years of joy.
    i can't tell you how diss appointed I am.
    They took a great game and just took a big dump on the players. I'd almost pay 2x the monthly subscription fee just to have the old class make up back.
    [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2][COLOR=#9acd32][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000048cc1/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjdobs View Post
    I wish you dissenters would move on. But you're still here.

    If in real life I walked into work tomorrow and either 'rage quit' or 'quietly moved on', I wouldn't then turn up the next day to talk to my old colleagues about why I left. I'd just go.

    Seeya...
    This isnt work my friend its a game, a game some people have paid for.

    Besides that, what you said is absolute nonsense anyway, I have just changed my job, moved onto one closer to home , with better pay etc etc. Point is, after I handed my notice in my old boss had 2 interviews with me to discuss why I was leaving, all my work mates had loads of conversations with me during my months notice as to why I was leaving, and we still have conversations now that I have left about the new job and how it compares to my old one. If none of that happens to you when you leave a job, then that says more about you than anyone else.

    the reason why my old boss had 2 interviews with me? well thats obvious , as a company they are keen to know why I was leaving, was there any reasons that they could change to stop others leaving, or maybe even change my mind and stay with them, thats how these things work, both in your work analogy and with regards to turbine and their paying customers. Or would you be more happy if we all left silently and in a years time you are sat scratching your head looking at a screen full of Gandalf shouting "you shall not pass" when you try to log on and cant for the life of you fathom why?

  17. #17
    I haven't been playing since Beta, but I have been playing 3 years. I think a lot of people fail to recognize/appreciate that the developers' mindset and intentions in each expansion have been completely different. It's a matter of perspective I think.

    Pre-Moria I don't know. But Moria was a huge mess, in retrospect, and most people considered it unpleasant compared to the later content.

    Mirkwoood built on the skirm-as-instance effect. It was big and it was actually a land at war.

    RoI, sorry I was too busy and not playing that much during RoI. However it was gazobs of quests, do you really want 150 quests even after you reach level cap?

    Riders of Rohan, people are still complaining about how much they hate mounted combat.

    Each expansion the classes changed, some for the better, some for the worse.

    Something here reminds me of early American settlers, the distinction between the landowners who thought they had all the privelege in the world and spent their entire lives trying to keep the have-nots without.

    If you don't like it, give feedback and move on.

    And in my opinion, I hope you can learn a lesson about what you hope for. It would be foolish to put all your hope in a company to make you happy. Go find happiness and bring it to the game ; )

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambruin View Post
    There was a time where one had to camp a spawn for days (Everquest anyone?). There was a time where quest were non-existant (Shadowbane anyone?). A time when griefing was almost obligatory if you wanted to keep up (Ultima Online?). Worlds accessible only if you paid the entry fee (subscription). Numbers by the dozen on every tab you opened. I can understand current generation MMOs want to stray from that path a bit, open the genre up to a broader audience thus increasing revenue. I'm simply wondering just how far one can stray before one has gone too far from the principle concept?
    There was also a time when MMOs required you to be online so much that you couldn't do anything else at all. A time when a succesful MMO had maybe 10-20.000 players. A time before MMOs became a mainstream genre and big business. Things change, thankfully, and you really need to take off the rose-tinted goggles.

    Shadowbane was a major flop and only a tiny minority fragment of players actually enjoyed the EQ camping and the UO griefing. But both UO and EQ are still alive, so feel free to go back to those games. It's certainly a better option than trying to make Lotro into something it never was.

    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    They PAID for this rubbish, they are entitled to complain at what they see as a distinct lack of value for money. Of course you could always keep your opinion to yourself in the way you expect them to do. But you won't!
    So the second you pay for something, you are entitled to complain, even though you had plenty of options to check EXACTLY what you bought, and NOBODY had lied to you about the contents? Sorry, no, you don't. If I go buy a cinema ticket and I dislike the movie, I really have ZERO right to complain. I could've watched trailers, read reviews, read boards etc, to find out if this was the kind of movie I, as an individual, would enjoy. If I didn't do that, that's MY problem, not the director's, not the cinema's and not the movie company's.
    Now, if NOBODY liked it, and EVERYBODY felt they were deceived by the ads etc, THEN you might have a case. However, that's certainly NOT the case here. This is just another case of the "entitlement generation" showing up and demanding that everything fits exactly into how THEY think the world should be.

    Time to grow up and realize that you won't always get your way and like everything that happens, and that's simply how life is.

    And yeah, I get that you're sad that you don't like the changes, but you're the minority group, based on what I'm seeing on my server, so either adapt to the changes like everybody else or go play something else. It's really not more than that. WoW made a change I couldn't deal with with the whole Panda-thing, and you know what, I haven't played it since. I also don't waste my time on their forums complaining about those changes, because that's, well, a complete waste of my time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2022400000020a38d/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #19
    I haven't been playing since Beta, but I have been playing 3 years. I think a lot of people fail to recognize/appreciate that the developers' mindset and intentions in each expansion have been completely different. It's a matter of perspective I think.

    Pre-Moria I don't know. But Moria was a huge mess, in retrospect, and most people considered it unpleasant compared to the later content.
    I love Moria and I would definitely debate the fact that it was unpleasant. Yes it was difficult and yes it's dreary there compared to everywhere except Angmar, but what did people expect from an abandoned orc-infested mine?

    Mirkwoood built on the skirm-as-instance effect. It was big and it was actually a land at war.
    I don't think I would describe Mirkwood as big, but the quests were enjoyable. Personally I don't like skirmishes at all, but I know some do. This WAS the last challenging landscape content I believe, especially as a new player who didn't know a thing about corruptions. I don't understand why Turbine chose to abandon that aspect post Mirkwood.

    RoI, sorry I was too busy and not playing that much during RoI. However it was gazobs of quests, do you really want 150 quests even after you reach level cap?
    Yes, yes I would.

    Riders of Rohan, people are still complaining about how much they hate mounted combat.
    Mounted combat was very buggy when released, but it's not too bad now. The only complaint I have about MC is that it's boring and too easy.

    Each expansion the classes changed, some for the better, some for the worse.
    This is true, but nothing like the changes that occurred with HD.

    Something here reminds me of early American settlers, the distinction between the landowners who thought they had all the privelege in the world and spent their entire lives trying to keep the have-nots without.

    If you don't like it, give feedback and move on.

    And in my opinion, I hope you can learn a lesson about what you hope for. It would be foolish to put all your hope in a company to make you happy. Go find happiness and bring it to the game ; )
    Your early American settler comparison doesn't make any sense to me at all, but I'm sure you've got a point in there somewhere. If all of this is to say if you don't like it then move on then I'm not sure how any of the rest of your post relates to your conclusion.
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  20. #20
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    1,626
    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    1. I appreciate that you are trying to tell a story, however the linear quest line (ie complete one, be directed to the next that is only active when the first has been completed) has killed any sense of exploration, discovery or free will. If I wanted to run on rails without thinking,I could play a platform game, not a MMO.
    I didn't think the questing was any more linear than the last few expansions. In fact, I think it's far less linear than, for example, Rise of Isengard. I encountered numerous quests randomly while wandering about, including ones that automatically entered my tracker, others that gave me the popup, and others still that required me to click an item to start it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    2. Crafting material icons for tier 9 exactly the same as tier 8......the fact that someone actually made a decision to do this beggars belief, and brings your wider QA and supervision into question
    This wasn't a "decision" to use these placeholders -- it was a priority issue. If I recall correctly, both Rise of Isengard and Riders of Rohan had the same issue with new crafting mats using old icons. These were subsequently updated in a later patch. I would expect the same here, so this is really a minor, mostly cosmetic, issue that will be addressed relatively quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    3. So Im 95...now what??? I cant PVP as I have no 95 audacity armour. I could do HD....cant quite bring myself to call them 'big battles', as they are just slightly modified skirmishes.....but I didn't even need to level to do these. Go on one of the endlessly advertised Sambrog farms? Hell no, got fed up with those prior to the update when at least I earnt the seals you have stolen.
    Prepare yourself for next year's expansion!

    There are many things you can do, including Epic Battles, Warbands, do skirmishes and instances to get new gear, grind currency for set jewellery (see the barterer in HD), and any quests or deeds you have yet to complete. For PvP, the new Audacity gear should be available with Update 12.1 within the next few weeks. I think the bigger obstacle to the Moors is balance, but that has always been an issue there and will likely take a while to adjust, given the massive class changes.

    It is not quite accurate to say Turbine has "stolen" your Seals. They were converted to a large amount of Medallions, and you can now buy things like Second Age Symbols for Marks and Medallions, so they are not exactly going to waste. If the Seals had not been reset, they would have introduced a new currency for us to grind, as otherwise you would have all your gear and not have a reason to play (the very thing you are currently complaining about). Seal resets have been with us a while now. They are going to happen with each expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    4. So Im a legendary hero, slayer of dragons, welcome at the tables of Théoden, Galadriel and Elrond......and you would have me inspect toilets, run about after children and .......kill more boars????
    Well, boars slayed heroes in many tales, including Tolkien's mythos (there's even a Folca quest in HD), and I don't see anything unheroic about playing some games with children. Sure, they could not have these quests, but that would be even less variety than there is now. For what it's worth, I thought the privies quest was hilarious and a nice change to what we've done before, even though the mechanics of it were familiar.

    That said, I quite liked the variety of quests used for the Hytbold system and hope to see some repeatable content like this in the near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    5. What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean??? Is this some sort of redneck joke or something? Certainly not a phrase I think that JRR would recognise.
    It is possible he heard the phrase, but I doubt he'd like it or consider it for anyone but Orcs and similar folk. I argued against this name in beta and on the live forums, as I consider the name very inappropriate for a Lore-master of all classes. I suggested something like Beacon of Beasts, but I am sure there are lots of alternatives. In the grand scheme of things, however, it is a very minor issue and something I can deal with. Certainly nothing to quit over.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by livingwaters View Post
    I haven't been playing since Beta, but I have been playing 3 years. I think a lot of people fail to recognize/appreciate that the developers' mindset and intentions in each expansion have been completely different. It's a matter of perspective I think.

    Pre-Moria I don't know. But Moria was a huge mess, in retrospect, and most people considered it unpleasant compared to the later content.
    MoM was prized by Turbine and Game news companies as one of the greatest expansions ever. It had bugs, flaws etc. It had Radiance. It introduced Trait Trees. It introduced LIs. I think Watcher went through 3 versions before it was accessible to most, and had 3 other raids and a total of 11 instances prior to skirmishes and the largest Epic Line ever. Perhaps we can chalk it up to perspective, but I'd be personally skeptical that "most people" considered it unpleasant compared to later content. It was on my recollection that after SoM the game lost population and the move to F2P happened to support an on-going environment.

    Here is just one example - and an 85 metascore is often hard to beat, the highest player rating was MoM - they get scores from gaming industry and players

    SoA (86; 8.3): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...dows-of-angmar

    Moria (85; 8.5): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...mines-of-moria

    SoM (83; 7.7): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...ge-of-mirkwood

    RoI (NA; 6.6): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...se-of-isengard

    RoR (88; 7.5): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...iders-of-rohan

    HD:


    Here is Gamespots:

    SoA/MoM: http://www.gamespot.com/the-lord-of-...ngmar/reviews/

    SoM: http://www.gamespot.com/the-lord-of-...e-of-mirkwood/

    Those are a quick few ones I could find....
    TheInklingsKin.com

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderZtorm View Post
    There was also a time when MMOs required you to be online so much that you couldn't do anything else at all. A time when a succesful MMO had maybe 10-20.000 players. A time before MMOs became a mainstream genre and big business. Things change, thankfully, and you really need to take off the rose-tinted goggles.

    Shadowbane was a major flop and only a tiny minority fragment of players actually enjoyed the EQ camping and the UO griefing. But both UO and EQ are still alive, so feel free to go back to those games. It's certainly a better option than trying to make Lotro into something it never was.



    So the second you pay for something, you are entitled to complain, even though you had plenty of options to check EXACTLY what you bought, and NOBODY had lied to you about the contents? Sorry, no, you don't. If I go buy a cinema ticket and I dislike the movie, I really have ZERO right to complain. I could've watched trailers, read reviews, read boards etc, to find out if this was the kind of movie I, as an individual, would enjoy. If I didn't do that, that's MY problem, not the director's, not the cinema's and not the movie company's.
    Now, if NOBODY liked it, and EVERYBODY felt they were deceived by the ads etc, THEN you might have a case. However, that's certainly NOT the case here. This is just another case of the "entitlement generation" showing up and demanding that everything fits exactly into how THEY think the world should be.

    Time to grow up and realize that you won't always get your way and like everything that happens, and that's simply how life is.

    And yeah, I get that you're sad that you don't like the changes, but you're the minority group, based on what I'm seeing on my server, so either adapt to the changes like everybody else or go play something else. It's really not more than that. WoW made a change I couldn't deal with with the whole Panda-thing, and you know what, I haven't played it since. I also don't waste my time on their forums complaining about those changes, because that's, well, a complete waste of my time.
    I dont think there is any reason to speak in hyperbole. I believe as a senior corp executive that does business with 1 in 3 of you that most companies care what its customers' think. We like to hear from folks good or bad. Your example is off, too, bc movie companies look for feedback from people exiting a show and later session viewings. I do not believe they will nec give you your money back, but they do care whether you enjoyed it. I do not generally think that poorly of companies - e.g. they put out bad stuff to lure you and the plug their ears. I think generally speaking they like to know all the work they did was enjoyed or how it could be improved. I think as a testament that Turbine cares is that it has the forums and social media. I am glad they do not take your perspective bc it's my desire to give them more of my $ if they deliver content I enjoy.

    It's kinda amazing to me that when the minority is in the majority it doesn't want to hear from the minority and when that flips again we find ourselves on the other side of the argument. I believe in principle, and whether OP is in either camp, it was at least laid out with general civility (and I do not personally agree with every point), all to say give a response with a spirit of generosity and try not to be dismissive.

    "The Customer is Always Right," Harry Selfridge founder of your modern Mall inclusive of public restrooms, "bargain basement," cosmetics upfront, worker's rights, window displays, and pioneer of browsing versus "enter only to buy!"
    TheInklingsKin.com

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Oren View Post
    What on earth does 'Sic'em' mean???
    It means copying other MMOs quite literally.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7803/rz50.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?508409-Scenic-Arda"]Scenic Arda[/URL] - [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?532343-Scenic-Helm-s-Deep&p=7014227"]Scenic Helm's Deep[/URL] - [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?519168-New-forum-skin-light-theme"]Forum Light Theme[/URL][/CENTER]

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    Yep, and this one too.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000048ef64/01003/signature.png]Rithwis[/charsig]

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by JTollers View Post
    MoM was prized by Turbine and Game news companies as one of the greatest expansions ever. It had bugs, flaws etc. It had Radiance. It introduced Trait Trees. It introduced LIs. I think Watcher went through 3 versions before it was accessible to most, and had 3 other raids and a total of 11 instances prior to skirmishes and the largest Epic Line ever. Perhaps we can chalk it up to perspective, but I'd be personally skeptical that "most people" considered it unpleasant compared to later content. It was on my recollection that after SoM the game lost population and the move to F2P happened to support an on-going environment.

    Here is just one example - and an 85 metascore is often hard to beat, the highest player rating was MoM - they get scores from gaming industry and players

    SoA (86; 8.3): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...dows-of-angmar

    Moria (85; 8.5): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...mines-of-moria

    SoM (83; 7.7): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...ge-of-mirkwood

    RoI (NA; 6.6): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...se-of-isengard

    RoR (88; 7.5): http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...iders-of-rohan

    HD:


    Here is Gamespots:

    SoA/MoM: http://www.gamespot.com/the-lord-of-...ngmar/reviews/

    SoM: http://www.gamespot.com/the-lord-of-...e-of-mirkwood/

    Those are a quick few ones I could find....
    Whats interesting about those scores is the amount of critics contributing to them
    For SoA - 40 critics
    For moria - 24 critics
    For SoM - 8 critics
    For RoI - 3 not enough even for a score
    and For RoR - just 6


    Rift has 59 critics scoring it
    WoW mists of panoria - 42 critics
    GW2 - 69 critics
    SWTOR - 73 critics

    Lotro isnt even showing up on most gaming magazines radar anymore

    Even marvel heroes had 38 critics

 

 
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