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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    I keep seeing this statement and do not understand it. All healers and all tanks (mostly guards and wardens until now) which I talk to for the past years considered incoming healing to be one of the main tanking stat. The goal was always to have it as high as possible and why a tanking captain would decide to ignore it is a mystery for me.

    Incoming healing buff stacks, and with such frequent defeat events (there is defeat event on every partial b/p/e) it is not uncommon to see 3 buffs at the same time. It is 15% incoming healing from this trait alone. High incoming healing on a tank allows the healers to get those huge critical hits they can show of, it also means that if you get an incoming healing debuff - you still can be healed. It even affects our self healing and thus helps with agro generation... This stat was always considered as very important by majority of all tanks and I just can't ignore it now.

    And how is this trait the weakest? For comparison, Critical Defense adds only 5% crit defense on top of 50%+ which you have in tanking gear. For all of the critical attacks these extra 5% will be wasted and only the damage done by devastating hits will be further reduced. Or the Last Stand cooldown reduction... do you need it as a tank? How often during the 5 minutes are you expecting to drop to 1 morale? Maybe once the instances are scaled properly Last Stand will get some use, but I am yet to find any tanking task in a PvE content where I would need frequent Last Stands.


    Concerning the Shield-Brother's Call incoming healing buff, it seems to have very limited use PvE. This buff also stacks (4% per time) and I saw it going as high as up to 20% incoming healing. However, in a raid where I ask the second tank to be placed in my fellowship for shield-brother, we both would have this extra buff and our healers appreciate it.
    This is spot on. I also used to think this trait was bad until I realised how easily Captanks get defeat events and that the +5% inc heal has a ~10s duration.

    As for Last Stand cooldown I still think that is important as it'll more or less ensure you have LS ready for IHW (which is on a 3 minute cooldown, LS on 5 min iirc).

  2. #27
    For my yellow line spec I go up to 3 points in the routing cry buff to attack speed (Penetrating Cry) in the red tree and then the rest go into yellow. This limits the amount of points you have for yellow tree but the the attack speed buff from routing cry really helps in cycling through the skill rotations and therefore increases DPS and helps holding aggro.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    211
    My captain tanked a few instances tonight. Smoked it. Sitting at 29.4k morale, capped phys mit, close to cap tact mit.

    Pretty amazing.

    I love being able to pug without having to ask for heals or tank now. We can do both!

    Content is far far too easy though.

  4. #29
    Yellow line is pretty crazy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Captains being tank without another healer in a group. Today I was fighting 2 150K morale trolls at the same time while being sniped at by normal orcs, and my morale barely budged. The only issue was after a few minutes, power started to get low. Here's a screenie of that fight:

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140000000fded1/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Belgium / Russia
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by chufa View Post
    Yellow line is pretty crazy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Captains being tank without another healer in a group.
    That's how I run most 6mans now Captain tank + 5 random dps. I added a couple of healing legacies to my tanking LIs since heals both help with agro and heal the fellowship after AoE boss attacks. If ever needed.
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtarel - Hunter / Kadarka - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishtari - RNK 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    622
    Nerf yellow line captains.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The Prancing Pony, usually I'm drunk in a corner
    Posts
    3,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Herald still can heal you, so it's not that useless.
    Hearld of Hope is also nice because of 3% mitigation bonus.

    Due to the fact it doesn't contribute to the actual rating, the 3% mitigation bonus is an outside source. So, I can go over my mitigation cap by 3%(Cap is 70%, Captain with Hearld of Hope can reach 73%). Or am I just imagining this?
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
    ____________________________

    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The Prancing Pony, usually I'm drunk in a corner
    Posts
    3,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    Nerf yellow line captains.
    Why? Because we actually got some attentions? Captains have never been perfect at any role, performing meager compared to the roles of other classes. This time around, we're way better at those respective roles, which is a good thing.
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
    ____________________________

    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Belgium / Russia
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Hearld of Hope is also nice because of 3% mitigation bonus.

    Due to the fact it doesn't contribute to the actual rating, the 3% mitigation bonus is an outside source. So, I can go over my mitigation cap by 3%(Cap is 70%, Captain with Hearld of Hope can reach 73%). Or am I just imagining this?
    You can go even to 83% mitigation when you have a proc from the new jewelry

    Though while tanking in groups I still prefer Herald of Victory for power cost reduction. There seem to be several classes which suffer from power issues when you run through an instance non-stop. -10% power cost (and -10% more from tactics) becomes noticeable soon enough.
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtarel - Hunter / Kadarka - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishtari - RNK 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Why? Because we actually got some attentions? Captains have never been perfect at any role, performing meager compared to the roles of other classes. This time around, we're way better at those respective roles, which is a good thing.
    Relax, he is just one angry creep. There is no REAL content to really see what balance needed to be put in place.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by skoelrond View Post
    After seeing this video I specced into yellow and ran one of the hytbold crafting quests today. I pulled nearly the whole instance then took them down one at a time and my morale bar barely moved. So obviously this is way overpowered and it will be nerfed probably quickly.

    May I suggest though that in place of the direct heal from getting hit instead let the proc be to increase ICMR. Make it similar to (or a little better than *wink**wink*) a minstrel's ICMR buff from Cry of the Valor.
    and how was your power management?

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Belgium / Russia
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Teyaha View Post
    and how was your power management?
    Power management is indeed an issue, but it does not mean that we have no ways to deal with it.

    Herald of Victory (-10% power cost, a small power restore every minute).
    On Guard buff (-10% power cost).
    Regen food before the fight.
    Power pots.
    Power cost reduction legacies.
    Fate or raw icpr.

    Situation with power while tanking can be from "desperate" to "not a problem" depending on how much of the above you have. If I do not use any of above, I run out of power in a couple of minutes no matter what I do. Herald + On Guard keep my power up for longer fights. If I know that fight is going to be over 5 minutes - I eat some food and use pots more frequently. So far I ignore the power cost reduction legacies and did not think of increasing icpr even more. I do not have severe power issues which would force me to stop and wait for power regen when I pull a full school or library instance alone.

    It also helps to watch which skills you need in a particular fight. If you are solo as in the example with the Crafting instance or soloing a 3man, do not use To Arms and Rallying Cry unless you really need them.
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtarel - Hunter / Kadarka - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishtari - RNK 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Why? Because we actually got some attentions? Captains have never been perfect at any role, performing meager compared to the roles of other classes. This time around, we're way better at those respective roles, which is a good thing.
    Because it is ridiculously overpowered. Same as most of the classes, granted, but the Cappy yellow-line may be right now the most OP of them all. I am currently leveling my captain, doing Sword Halls T2 solo, I had on me the first boss, the 2nd boss adds, the 2nd boss and the 3rd boss adds. Only skills I used were To Arms (not all the CDs), Inspire (not all the CDs) and that is it. Getting stunned almost all the time my morale didn't drop at all. I died when my weapon got broken. 9 minutes fight, 6.1k HPS (and increasing very fast!). Inspire heal was worth for around 200 hps, 3.7k coming form the yellow capstone, more than 1k for some Reflect effect (noble mark?).

    So basically I was getting 3.7k hps only because I was being hit. And guess what, my damage taken per second was slightly over 2k.

    I also enjoy being a monster and being able to own every living creature. But this just feels broken for now. I hope they scale the content to a proper level of damage and then we will tell if we are actually THAT OP. If we are near as powerful as we are now, we really need to get nerfed.
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rNA52C7.jpg[/IMG]

    Waaha R10 Reaver, Tardleader R9 War-Leader, Wargtard R7 Warg
    Fellagund R5 Warden, Eldelcar R4 Lore-Master, Cadwolf R3 Captain, Eldelband R2 Minstrel

  14. #39
    So if you were to try to solo some yellow line instances, what herald are you using? Archer for the extra DPS? Victory for the power savings? Just curious to see what is efficient. The three mans I tried last night were pretty simple, just taking a bit for my poorly geared cappy to chew through them all.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldelcar View Post
    Because it is ridiculously overpowered. Same as most of the classes, granted, but the Cappy yellow-line may be right now the most OP of them all. I am currently leveling my captain, doing Sword Halls T2 solo, I had on me the first boss, the 2nd boss adds, the 2nd boss and the 3rd boss adds. Only skills I used were To Arms (not all the CDs), Inspire (not all the CDs) and that is it. Getting stunned almost all the time my morale didn't drop at all. I died when my weapon got broken. 9 minutes fight, 6.1k HPS (and increasing very fast!). Inspire heal was worth for around 200 hps, 3.7k coming form the yellow capstone, more than 1k for some Reflect effect (noble mark?).

    So basically I was getting 3.7k hps only because I was being hit. And guess what, my damage taken per second was slightly over 2k.

    I also enjoy being a monster and being able to own every living creature. But this just feels broken for now. I hope they scale the content to a proper level of damage and then we will tell if we are actually THAT OP. If we are near as powerful as we are now, we really need to get nerfed.
    You do realize that the reason why cappy heals so far because there are a lot of small attack causing random heals from capstones. Quantity of these attacks triggers more heals therefore cappy is getting a ton of heals. But where in real situation that would be useful? But I guess there is no "real" content to really see whats really OP and what is useless. Moors is only measure right now of how OP classes. And let me tell you something I was one shotted by a reaver when I was at 14k morale, so 2 reavers can 2 shot cappy. So what is really OP? and OP for what?

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sarefx View Post
    You do realize that the reason why cappy heals so far because there are a lot of small attack causing random heals from capstones. Quantity of these attacks triggers more heals therefore cappy is getting a ton of heals. But where in real situation that would be useful? But I guess there is no "real" content to really see whats really OP and what is useless. Moors is only measure right now of how OP classes. And let me tell you something I was one shotted by a reaver when I was at 14k morale, so 2 reavers can 2 shot cappy. So what is really OP? and OP for what?
    Your morale was way too low for EM. Did you use audacity? You were not mitigating orc-craft damage (if that reaver was using fire I just don't believe that he one-shotted you) and you will after 12.1. When you have 25-30k morale you have more time to pop your -inc dmg buffs. I guess he found you when you weren't using to arms, or SoD, or IHW, or to a lesser extent combinations of sure strike, DB, Withdrawal...

    As I said, there's a lack of content to messure if the cappy is as OP as it looks to be. 12.1 will give a good messure when they introduce audacity with that juicy -30% inc damage and 30% mitigation for the creep damage. I'm gonna go ahead and predict that the yellow cappy is going to be one of the stupidest things EM has seen.
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rNA52C7.jpg[/IMG]

    Waaha R10 Reaver, Tardleader R9 War-Leader, Wargtard R7 Warg
    Fellagund R5 Warden, Eldelcar R4 Lore-Master, Cadwolf R3 Captain, Eldelband R2 Minstrel

 

 
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