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  1. #1
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    Update 12.1 Captain Changes

    Bullroarer is now up.

    Change list is at https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

    What do you think about the changes?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  2. #2
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    Make sure to notice the General change:
    • Tanks now generate additional threat when using healing skills.

    I think that has a good lot of potential for Captanks, especially versus many targets.

    Status on Bullroarer:
    HoH To Arms: -7% inc damage, +15% outgoing damage, +25% outgoing healing
    LoM: -15% inc damage, +15% healing, +15% outgoing damage
    LtC: -7% inc damage, +25% outgoing damage, +15% outgoing healing

    Martial Prowess now gives -5% attack duration per rank (3 ranks).

    Standard of War now goes up to +30% damage, and the 5th point does absolutely nothing except making the skill Ground Targeted.
    Standard of Valour now goes up to +30% inc healing
    Quite sure Standard of Honour has gotten a good boost as well.

    EDIT: my comments on the changes:

    As much as traits should probably not be compared directly, I think it is weird that Deafening Shouts give +6% light damage while Skilled Hands give +6% tactical damage AND outgoing healing. All of our Light Damage skill are AFAIK tactical as well, so basically Skilled Hands has same effect as Deafening Shouts + 3% healing.
    I would suggest moving the 3% melee damage from Martial Prowess to Deafening Shouts, as Martial Prowess has become very strong IMO.

    I really like the changes to Bolstered Resolve and Absorb Momentum (which is probably obvious considering how much I whined about them in Beta :P ), the critical magnitude could easily be of use in HoH, LtC and perhaps even LoM if you build a lot of crit.

    I think Reform the Lines needed a boost, so the +15% inc healing is appreciated.

    Getting the boosts to To Arms will hopefully lessen the blow for the "Captain has lost flexibility" group, and either way it is nice to have a bonus that can be useful on everyone in your group rather than the very specific buffs we have on Live.

    The 40m range on Standard of X feels really weird IMO and I'd like to see a larger area of effect for the buffs they bring.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Dec 06 2013 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #3
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    I had heard back in beta that 12.1 might introduce herald armaments that would change herald damage types to something other than common, human giving westernesse, and dwarf giving ancient dwarf were mentioned. I hope that has just been delayed and not canceled.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    As much as traits should probably not be compared directly, I think it is weird that Deafening Shouts give +6% light damage while Skilled Hands give +6% tactical damage AND outgoing healing. All of our Light Damage skill are AFAIK tactical as well, so basically Skilled Hands has same effect as Deafening Shouts + 3% healing.
    No, Shadow's Lament is Light Damage now aswell, so at least one Melee skill boosted by Deafening Shouts but not by Skilled Hands.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadd_EU View Post
    No, Shadow's Lament is Light Damage now aswell, so at least one Melee skill boosted by Deafening Shouts but not by Skilled Hands.
    I know SL is now Light damage, but given how Light damage is usually tactical regardless (and for targeted mobs mitigation it is calculated as tactical damage IIRC), I thought it would still get boosts from Tactical Damage. You're right though, it doesn't apply to SL, and neither to Standard of X. That on the other makes Tactical Damage boost a very underwhelming bonus.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Dec 06 2013 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrodberht View Post
    I had heard back in beta that 12.1 might introduce herald armaments that would change herald damage types to something other than common, human giving westernesse, and dwarf giving ancient dwarf were mentioned. I hope that has just been delayed and not canceled.
    I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

    I have a feeling that the pet system is probably a bit more archaic (and static) than we want to believe it is.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  7. #7
    What exactly does making a skill 'ground targeted' do?

    Cheers
    Oryette

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

    I have a feeling that the pet system is probably a bit more archaic (and static) than we want to believe it is.
    You can aim it a specific spot on the ground without a target. Which is nice. For example, I can drop my aoe standard in the best location to hit the most mobs whenever. Rather than waiting for something to get where I want it and then targetting and hitting that mob.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by commanderjerkface View Post
    What exactly does making a skill 'ground targeted' do?

    Cheers
    You click on the skill, and then you can place it on the ground anywhere within range. Similar to how the new Hunter traps work.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Othniel View Post
    You click on the skill, and then you can place it on the ground anywhere within range. Similar to how the new Hunter traps work.
    How does that work with target effects on standards (light damage to target, increased damage to target)? Do these not kick in unless a mob is targeted when the standard is dropped?
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bezmer View Post
    How does that work with target effects on standards (light damage to target, increased damage to target)? Do these not kick in unless a mob is targeted when the standard is dropped?
    There is the square that shows the effect, same as it is now. If something isn't in that square when it first hits, it doesn't get the initial damage.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    I know SL is now Light damage, but given how Light damage is usually tactical regardless (and for targeted mobs mitigation it is calculated as tactical damage IIRC), I thought it would still get boosts from Tactical Damage. You're right though, it doesn't apply to SL, and neither to Standard of X. That on the other makes Tactical Damage boost a very underwhelming bonus.
    We're back to the old attack type vs damage type, and that both have a "tactical" kind. So unless we know which classification is used here, it's hard to say what the effects will be.

    For example, battle-readied provides +5 to melee and tactical -- which clearly refers to tactical attack type, since otherwise it's supposed to be providing double bonus to Shadow's Lament (which is a melee a ttack dealing tactical damage), which cannot be WAI.

    Once again, I'll use this occasion to ask for straighten out the convention, because it is unnecessarily confusing, and the fix is simple. It really shouldn't be that hardto refer to the non-physical damage type as something else (elemental, arcane, chanelling, or indeed simply non-physical). Please?
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  13. #13
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Each skill should say what type of an attack it is on the tooltip. While Shadow's Lament deals Light-type damage, it is still listed as a 'Melee skill'. This means it will benefit from Physical Mastery. Technically, I'm pretty sure we could make versions of Tactical Skills, like Battle-shout, deal types like Beleriand, normally seen on weapons. The damage type isn't what matters in that regard, it's what type of skill we assign it to be (melee/ranged/tactical).

    Edit: Now proceeding to pre-emptively duck and cover under my desk before Engineers start shooting me with nerf darts.

  14. #14
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    Any thoughts on making the following legacy change?

    To Arms Duration => Inspire Cirtical Chance

    Also with the change is merging the To Arms duration into the base skill, since every captain is going to have that legacy regardless of traiting due to the buffing of To Arms - putting it in the same category as the buff legacies you shot during HD Beta.

    I'm choosing Inspire because it would be nice to help make that skill crit more frequently.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Dec 10 2013 at 11:37 AM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Each skill should say what type of an attack it is on the tooltip. While Shadow's Lament deals Light-type damage, it is still listed as a 'Melee skill'. This means it will benefit from Physical Mastery. Technically, I'm pretty sure we could make versions of Tactical Skills, like Battle-shout, deal types like Beleriand, normally seen on weapons. The damage type isn't what matters in that regard, it's what type of skill we assign it to be (melee/ranged/tactical).

    Edit: Now proceeding to pre-emptively duck and cover under my desk before Engineers start shooting me with nerf darts.
    This really just strengthens the argument that the name "Tactical" really shouldn't be used for two different things as it is now (Tactical Skills as opposed to Melee or Ranged skills and Tactical Damage as opposed to Common Damage). One of those names really should be changed. Personally, I'm more for changing the name of the damage type.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Any thoughts on making the following legacy change?

    To Arms Duration => Inspire Cirtical Chance

    Also with the change is merging the To Arms duration into the base skill, since every captain is going to have that legacy regardless of traiting due to the buffing of To Arms - putting it in the same category as the buff legacies you shot during HD Beta.

    I'm choosing Inspire because it would be nice to help make that skill crit more frequently.
    Is this something is on test server only as I do not see it mentioned in patch notes.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820a00000000548a/01001/signature.png]Nerobus[/charsig]

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssslippy View Post
    Is this something is on test server only as I do not see it mentioned in patch notes.
    It's a suggestion, not something going live.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  18. #18
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    I like these changes.



    Id like to see all build-specific legacies go away, or be rolled into versions that benefit from all three trait trees. Telling Mark and Noble Mark are not only seperate, but one is a weapon leg and one is a class legacy... couldn't they be a single legacy that increases mark potency (and brings the old armor bonus back to revealing mark, perhaps? always need a rider on any bill I propose!) ?

    I really thought the essence of the last xpac was to trim-fat and make things more stream-lined and simplified. the way it is now, I need three weapons and two emblems....

    ...that's more clutter than my old buff-sticks caused.
    "I am always serious; I am never serious." -Me
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SapienChavez View Post
    I like these changes.



    Id like to see all build-specific legacies go away, or be rolled into versions that benefit from all three trait trees. Telling Mark and Noble Mark are not only seperate, but one is a weapon leg and one is a class legacy... couldn't they be a single legacy that increases mark potency (and brings the old armor bonus back to revealing mark, perhaps? always need a rider on any bill I propose!) ?

    I really thought the essence of the last xpac was to trim-fat and make things more stream-lined and simplified. the way it is now, I need three weapons and two emblems....

    ...that's more clutter than my old buff-sticks caused.
    Marks don't depend on spec -- you can have two or even all three marks depending on how you spend your trait points. Skills like Oathbreaker's Shame and Valiant strike do, but I doubt there's a way (or, indeed, a need) to cut their corresponding legacies out.
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

 

 

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