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Thread: "Tax"...?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    "Tax"...?

    So I was looking at purchasing the Exp packs and when I got all the way through to the end of the process it then added an extra $6 tax on top, and I'm curious as to why this is exactly?
    No other MMORPG I've ever played and bought items online for (WoW, ToR, Secret World, Everquest, SWG etc) have had any sort of 'tax' when purchasing on their online stores so I'd like to know what exactly this is about and why? It seem's quite dodgy to me that they add $6 tax on top of what I'm already paying...

  2. #2
    Turbine is part of a huge company called Time Warner with facilities all over the world. As such Turbine adds and remits local sales for many countries.

    The sales tax situation is a major issue for local, county, state and national government all over the world. A lot of companies choose not to collect or remit the taxes hoping that they will not get caught or punished. Smaller companies hope to be ignored because they are too small to be noticed and or picked on. Larger companies especially if they have no employees or a physical presence hope to be ignored because there is nothing for the national government to sink their claws into. It is really to intercept digital sales or go after the banks that are handling the money transfers.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Nov 21 2013 at 07:38 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnner-Au- View Post
    So I was looking at purchasing the Exp packs and when I got all the way through to the end of the process it then added an extra $6 tax on top, and I'm curious as to why this is exactly?
    No other MMORPG I've ever played and bought items online for (WoW, ToR, Secret World, Everquest, SWG etc) have had any sort of 'tax' when purchasing on their online stores so I'd like to know what exactly this is about and why? It seem's quite dodgy to me that they add $6 tax on top of what I'm already paying...
    European sales get VAT added. I would expect that the $6 equates to Aussie GST.
    TANSTAAFL

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    European sales get VAT added. I would expect that the $6 equates to Aussie GST.
    This is very surprising as no other company I've ever purchased from has done anything like this... and not to mention by law in Australia the listed price must always be the final price you pay with no additional taxes or hidden costs, so the fact they do not mention this anywhere is rather surprising (and dodgy...).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnner-Au- View Post
    This is very surprising as no other company I've ever purchased from has done anything like this... and not to mention by law in Australia the listed price must always be the final price you pay with no additional taxes or hidden costs, so the fact they do not mention this anywhere is rather surprising (and dodgy...).
    I guess the problem is that until you login or enter country information, they don't know which tax rate to apply in order to calculate the total. Here in the UK, it is 20%. I gather GST is 10%. Hopefully they displayed the total price BEFORE you had to hit the final Buy button.
    TANSTAAFL

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    I guess the problem is that until you login or enter country information, they don't know which tax rate to apply in order to calculate the total. Here in the UK, it is 20%. I gather GST is 10%. Hopefully they displayed the total price BEFORE you had to hit the final Buy button.
    I'm logged in with currency set to Aus, and it isn't until you enter all items to cart, PayPal information and it's not until the "Verify" stage that it's updated. Dodgy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnner-Au- View Post
    I'm logged in with currency set to Aus, and it isn't until you enter all items to cart, PayPal information and it's not until the "Verify" stage that it's updated. Dodgy
    And, as I understand it, illegal in Australia law. Australian consumer laws require the advertised price to be the FULL price, including GST. Slipping the GST in at the last minute, apart from being sleazy, and arguably immoral, is illegal for companies doing business in Australia. I believe the ACCC should be approached regarding this.

    X

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaq View Post
    And, as I understand it, illegal in Australia law. Australian consumer laws require the advertised price to be the FULL price, including GST. Slipping the GST in at the last minute, apart from being sleazy, and arguably immoral, is illegal for companies doing business in Australia. I believe the ACCC should be approached regarding this.

    X
    Exactly what's been bothering me. Perhaps I should get on to that, but given how hopeless the ACCC can be sometimes I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

  9. #9
    @Gunner - do you have a Credit Card associated with your account?

    Meaning, through myaccount.turbine.com , do you have a Credit Card on file?

  10. #10
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    I have a PayPal account associated with it. I set up a credit card to test it to see how it behaves but the same thing still comes up. I also reentered my details at the myaccount.turbine.com just to be sure (short: Yes, CC is on there )
    Last edited by Gunnner-Au-; Nov 22 2013 at 01:55 AM.

  11. #11
    Alright. We're looking into some of the site behaviors. If you haven't already - please contact Account Support. They can look into the specific purchase order connected to this site visit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterU View Post
    Alright. We're looking into some of the site behaviors. If you haven't already - please contact Account Support. They can look into the specific purchase order connected to this site visit.
    For what it's worth, I received the amount of tax back via PayPal several hours after I did the purcahse. I'm unsure if this was you, or another Turbine employee or even automated but it's very much appreciated

  13. #13
    We're glad this was resolved :-)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Turbine is part of a huge company called Time Warner with facilities all over the world. As such Turbine adds and remits local sales for many countries.

    The sales tax situation is a major issue for local, county, state and national government all over the world. A lot of companies choose not to collect or remit the taxes hoping that they will not get caught or punished. Smaller companies hope to be ignored because they are too small to be noticed and or picked on. Larger companies especially if they have no employees or a physical presence hope to be ignored because there is nothing for the national government to sink their claws into. It is really to intercept digital sales or go after the banks that are handling the money transfers.
    This was true up until a recent New York Court Ruling which basically upheld the right of the state to tax the the transactions of companies doing business in their states (i.e. with their residents) even if they have no" employees or physical presence." This ruling was in direct opposition to the US Supreme Court "Quell" ruling of 1992.

    While not yet "the law of the land" many corporations deciding to be good citizens and expecting the US Supreme Court to no longer hide behind the "we don't have the computer power to do that" argument, (but not including Amazon and Overstock) have begun collecting and remitting the mandated Sales taxes for each state.

    The issue will be discussed on 26 November before the US Supreme Court... yes, tomorrow
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    This was true up until a recent New York Court Ruling which basically upheld the right of the state to tax the the transactions of companies doing business in their states (i.e. with their residents) even if they have no" employees or physical presence." This ruling was in direct opposition to the US Supreme Court "Quell" ruling of 1992.

    While not yet "the law of the land" many corporations deciding to be good citizens and expecting the US Supreme Court to no longer hide behind the "we don't have the computer power to do that" argument, (but not including Amazon and Overstock) have begun collecting and remitting the mandated Sales taxes for each state.

    The issue will be discussed on 26 November before the US Supreme Court... yes, tomorrow
    It is hard for me to imagine that the Roberts court would reverse the 1992 ruling. It is always possible. I think much more likely the Roberts court will reaffirm the 1992 "Quell" ruling and declare the NY law invalid.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    This was true up until a recent New York Court Ruling which basically upheld the right of the state to tax the the transactions of companies doing business in their states (i.e. with their residents) even if they have no" employees or physical presence." This ruling was in direct opposition to the US Supreme Court "Quell" ruling of 1992.

    While not yet "the law of the land" many corporations deciding to be good citizens and expecting the US Supreme Court to no longer hide behind the "we don't have the computer power to do that" argument, (but not including Amazon and Overstock) have begun collecting and remitting the mandated Sales taxes for each state.

    The issue will be discussed on 26 November before the US Supreme Court... yes, tomorrow
    That court ruling was specifically about US state sales taxes. What is being discussed in this thread is taxes being applied to international sales, which is something different.

    I don't know what the situation is in Australia but the UK government and from what others have said, the rest of the EU too have decreed themselves that when their citizens make digital purchases abroad, the seller must add our VAT sale tax at source and pass it on the our government. Are you sure Australia hasn't done the same? Quite how that is enforceable, I haven't a clue, expecially if the seller doesn't have a presence in our countries. It is quite true though that most sellers in the US don't add VAT. It tends to be only the larger companies such as Warners. I believe that technically, we are supposed to declare any purchases we haven't paid VAT on to our Customs and Excise but in practice nobody does and it's not worth the government's time for them to go chasing the small amounts involved.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Taranis_EU View Post
    That court ruling was specifically about US state sales taxes. What is being discussed in this thread is taxes being applied to international sales, which is something different.

    I don't know what the situation is in Australia but the UK government and from what others have said, the rest of the EU too have decreed themselves that when their citizens make digital purchases abroad, the seller must add our VAT sale tax at source and pass it on the our government. Are you sure Australia hasn't done the same? Quite how that is enforceable, I haven't a clue, expecially if the seller doesn't have a presence in our countries. It is quite true though that most sellers in the US don't add VAT. It tends to be only the larger companies such as Warners. I believe that technically, we are supposed to declare any purchases we haven't paid VAT on to our Customs and Excise but in practice nobody does and it's not worth the government's time for them to go chasing the small amounts involved.
    That is how the internet sales tax is supposed to work in the US when buying from a company without a physical presence in your state. This includes what happens when you don't get charge by the seller and the result.

  18. #18
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    Unhappy Tax ... ¤| : -{|

    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    I guess the problem is that until you login or enter country information, they don't know which tax rate to apply in order to calculate the total. Here in the UK, it is 20%. I gather GST is 10%. Hopefully they displayed the total price BEFORE you had to hit the final Buy button.
    Lucky you - here in Denmark it's 25% moms (VAT). (In addition to that they've made sure that Danish gamers can't benefit from perks like Recruit A Friend in WoW etc.).
    Sheep, taxpayers and gamers are the only animals you can fleece regularly.
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