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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sao Paulo - Brazil
    Posts
    206
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    There is plenty of challenge in this game. The landscape should be easy for old vets. If it feels 'hard' to me as an old vet, then I worry about how much fun a true newbie or someone more disabled than I am can have fun in this game. Why people expect 'challenge' from a computer generated and scripted environment is something that I'll never understand. The only way to make it feel like a challenge is artificial measures. In a heroic instance, fine, I can live with that. On the landscape? No, heck no.
    Yes, landscape should be more challenging. When I read the books, I really had the impression there was danger everywhere, it was a world in war... if Frodo and Sam wasn't cautious enough they would get easily killed. Lotro landscape now seems like a walk in my own garden... killing some ants and other weak insects
    [b][size=3][FONT=Garamond][color=#8B0000][center]HELGRIMM OF ELENDILMIR[/color][/FONT][/size][/b][color=#696969][i]Still I'm pushing onward, alone I can't deny
    My presence fills the desert, my spirit never dies![/i][/color][/center]
    [center][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9080823/ville.gif[/img][/center]

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug View Post

    Also people are completely forgetting how the removal of stat caps and character stat inflation in general, combined with the growing power of LIs, is completely trivializing landscape content. Look at how many comments mention things getting easier from RoI onwards. There's a good reason for that.

    Besides, wouldn't it be nice to have the option of a few difficult landscape areas? People can then choose to avoid them or fight in them as they wish. Maybe even group up *gasp*! And no, I don't mean Warbands...

    Choice is healthy.
    I totally agree with this. The big problem now though it that my pre LI, pre stat cap level 48 Loremaster is shrugging off the worst Angmar can throw at him without even breaking sweat. In fact I don't even have to lift a finger because my pet can quite easily deal with landscape mobs without any intervention whatsoever. It's true that pet dps needed to be dialled up a bit but, in my opinion at least, it's been dialled up far too far. I don't want to play a game where I can set my pet on aggressive and go make a cup of tea while he clears out anything Sauron can throw at him without me doing anything at all - where's the fun in that?

    I realise there's a lot to tweak simply due to the age of the game but I hope the devs are able to get us back to a fun state of play again as quickly as possible. As it stands I'm lacking the motivation to log in at all, which makes me a sad bunny

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Melunielsigh View Post
    Hello

    I have had heard lot's of rumors before release of Helm's deep that champion ST "sux" or its underpowered compared to other classes.

    I've played last night for about 3 hours and I can honestly tell dat champ red full traited Berserker stance combined with few blue or yellow is ridiculously overpowered.

    I was carving through mobs like they were made of paper.

    You literally have no:

    CD's or very low CD'S

    Constant fervor ( With Tier 7 red and wise skill rotation ) Frenzy, CB rage + 5 fervor after kil +1 fer etc.. etc..

    Super fast attack speed with fero or brutal strikes combo.

    There are few rotations with devastating strike + fero + clobber + merc that will destory any normal and heavily damage elite mob within two sec.

    And for those that worrys about survival. Firstly you kill mobs so fast that your morale wont receive so much impact.

    Secondly - Fight on restore 3% of morale + bracing attack and passive skills which allows to gain morale after each kill. And since champ vanquishes mobs so fast and with incredible efficiency you got no problem with it.

    Big battles = Joke. You have to be real noob to die.

    Yellow line is complete annihilation , you can literally pull dozens of mobs and AOE the chit of them ^^

    I'm not saying Champion should change or anything revamped or restored like it was before.

    My toon is like Demi- Go d and I have 2nd age weapon and hytbold armor.

    I would to see mobs hit harder and difficulty increased in landscape or raid s in future...

    It feels so easy and simple. There is no challenge at all..


    And with all that, Champions are less OP than almost every other class. I soloed a size three on my Champ the day of the release and haven't really played since. I did play my hunter and RK for a while and they were even worse.
    [IMG]https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1379646_409269769172892_1671221629_n.jpg[/IMG]

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronan View Post
    The problem is. They have to Balance it to the weakest classes (light armor) that have basically no mitigation. Unless you think it's fun for, for example, a Minstrel to spend 3/4 of their time healing themselves and 1/4 attacking mobs and so take 5 minutes to kill a single mob? Or nerfing the Guardian even further to have even less DPS and spend 5 minutes taking down a single mob? Like how it is in many other MMO's, where hardly anyone wants to play healer and tank classes.

    But sure, if you don't mind spending hours begging in LFG for a healer or tank to get a Group going, just so you can get a bit more Challenge on Your Heavy Armor DPS class on landscape trash. /shrug
    Minis are healers, what do you expect? Guards are tanks. What do you expect? Trait red line for landscape. Trait whatever you like for everything else. I know minis who (Pre-HD they're dps has gone up significatly since) were killing mobs in well under fifteen seconds. You want to kill things faster? Learn how to play your class better. There is always some difference between how powerful class, but it's never big enough that a decently played of the weakest class can't beat a poorly played of the strongest.
    [IMG]https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1379646_409269769172892_1671221629_n.jpg[/IMG]

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nenuiale View Post

    Saying it was challenging to solo turtle in Angmar is like saying it's challenging to do Goblin Town 3-man on your own. Both are group content, not solo.
    I've been soloing fellowship quests since RoI. And now, guess what, I soloed a three man skirm on release day or HD. Before if you wanted you could play things that were supposed to be too hard for one person. That made it a challenge. If you never wanted to make it hard you avoided the elites. I fought them. At least there was a choice before. Now three mans are almost too easy.

    And there's nothing between three man and six man. I don't want to run around in [item]underwear-of-might-reduction[item] and with [item]slapping-fish-of-stupidity[item] just to be challenged. Savvy?
    [IMG]https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1379646_409269769172892_1671221629_n.jpg[/IMG]

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Tower Hills
    Posts
    475
    I'm finding the hunter to be about the same in difficulty as before. I die a lot and can't do anything I couldn't do before.

    The lore master is a different case. But this is really just due to swampy the bog. That animal is powerful. Now I didn't have him before so I can't say how much more powerful. I'm guessing a lot. If you play without the animal I think you will find lore master plenty challenging.

    I hope they keep it about like it is. Before Helms Deep I found things way too difficult and frustrating. I would be happy with a 25% reduction to the LM animal. But right now I'm giving it all I have to get my LM her legendary item before they take away swampy's oomph. I suspect I would have to wait to level 50 to get it if things were as they used to be.

  7. #82
    While I am in agreement the classes are too OP as of right now, I do wonder how many will complain when the god mode is taken away and the excuse of 'the players wanted to be nerfed' comes up. Isn't this the same argument we were fighting when the classes got changed originally, just in reverse ?
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Second-cousin View Post
    I don't want to run around in [item]underwear-of-might-reduction[item] and with [item]slapping-fish-of-stupidity[item] just to be challenged. Savvy?
    Why not? Serious question. Why not, if this will restore a level of balance and challenge that you find appropriate to your play?

    It's what I've been doing (see my earlier post in this thread), and it works great. While there is a certain visceral thrill to 1-shotting mobs and holding off entire hordes of enemies single-handedly, I'd much rather work for it, use all my skills, think hard, prepare with consumables, etc. If my shiny raid gear and maxed LI's trivialize the majority of landscape content, then the solution seems simple - I can't change the mobs, but I can change my clothes.

    In this respect, Turbine has given us all the tools we need to customize the difficulty level to suit our own tastes. If you want to feel uber-epic as you plow through endless waves of sword-fodder, the get yourself tealed up with all the best relics, max your Virtues, fill your trait trees, and march out secure in the knowlege of your own unstoppableness.

    On the other hand, if you'd rather see Signature mobs as something to take seriously and Elites as a mortal threat; if you want to be careful with your pulls; if you want to get real use out of scrolls, food, hope tokens, etc.; then grab some generic gear (Skirmish vendors are a great place for this), put your LI's aside, and go with a balanced hybrid trait build... or (as I did) no trait build at all.

    The game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. Personal choice. It's a great thing.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Ioffryd View Post
    Why not? Serious question. Why not, if this will restore a level of balance and challenge that you find appropriate to your play?

    It's what I've been doing (see my earlier post in this thread), and it works great. While there is a certain visceral thrill to 1-shotting mobs and holding off entire hordes of enemies single-handedly, I'd much rather work for it, use all my skills, think hard, prepare with consumables, etc. If my shiny raid gear and maxed LI's trivialize the majority of landscape content, then the solution seems simple - I can't change the mobs, but I can change my clothes.

    In this respect, Turbine has given us all the tools we need to customize the difficulty level to suit our own tastes. If you want to feel uber-epic as you plow through endless waves of sword-fodder, the get yourself tealed up with all the best relics, max your Virtues, fill your trait trees, and march out secure in the knowlege of your own unstoppableness.

    On the other hand, if you'd rather see Signature mobs as something to take seriously and Elites as a mortal threat; if you want to be careful with your pulls; if you want to get real use out of scrolls, food, hope tokens, etc.; then grab some generic gear (Skirmish vendors are a great place for this), put your LI's aside, and go with a balanced hybrid trait build... or (as I did) no trait build at all.

    The game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. Personal choice. It's a great thing.
    By your logic there would've been no reason to cure "skill bloat" then because the solution was always in the players' hands. Just don't use things if you feel it's too much. That's what you're suggesting here, gimping yourself to artificially create challenge, right?

    If Turbine is going to sell us on the changes by making the "balance" of skills and "clarification of role" for the classes, then do it. If we were supposed to gimp our characters to balance ourselves this whole class change was unnecessary.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    By your logic there would've been no reason to cure "skill bloat" then because the solution was always in the players' hands. Just don't use things if you feel it's too much. That's what you're suggesting here, gimping yourself to artificially create challenge, right?

    If Turbine is going to sell us on the changes by making the "balance" of skills and "clarification of role" for the classes, then do it. If we were supposed to gimp our characters to balance ourselves this whole class change was unnecessary.
    It was unnecessary for players who wanted to create more challenge for themselves. But the obvious effect (which we can safely assume was fully intended) was to reduce the level of challenge - either for players who did not want to have to focus on the combat aspects of the game, or for ones who whose idea of satisfying gameplay included soloing large numbers of mobs in epic-hero style.

    Turbine has made the game easier and more forgiving. This is indisputable. There are fewer skills to worry about, and the ones that are left are more effective. Gear is more effective. It's much easier to mis-handle a well-geared character and not suffer any unpleasant consequenses.

    But there are (thankfully) still some of us who want to be punsihed for poor play. And we have the means available to create conditions where this is a likelihood.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    While I am in agreement the classes are too OP as of right now,
    And the irony is that this whole skill tree nonsense was supposedly implemented because the classes were "too OP" in their current state.

    So basically their solution just made the problem they were wanting to correct worst. It would be funny if not for the fact I have to play with the consequences.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    And the irony is that this whole skill tree nonsense was supposedly implemented because the classes were "too OP" in their current state.

    So basically their solution just made the problem they were wanting to correct worst. It would be funny if not for the fact I have to play with the consequences.
    That Irony added to the other Irony, that they made the classes simpler so they could get classes operating in their specific roles again i.e the holy trinity mould, and then made an end game that completely ignores most classes roles, such as tanks,healers and support. To me it seems every reason they gave for these changes is nonsense as everything they have done since is exactly the opposite of why they said they were doing it in the first place.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    That Irony added to the other Irony, that they made the classes simpler so they could get classes operating in their specific roles again i.e the holy trinity mould, and then made an end game that completely ignores most classes roles, such as tanks,healers and support. To me it seems every reason they gave for these changes is nonsense as everything they have done since is exactly the opposite of why they said they were doing it in the first place.
    I agree. There was no logical reason for it that I can see... at least not from a game-play perspective. And all of the supposed reasons I have read look like BS to me. That's why I think it was just some desperate scheme to make more money at the store. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    S Korea
    Posts
    961
    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    I'm finding the hunter to be about the same in difficulty as before. I die a lot and can't do anything I couldn't do before.

    The lore master is a different case. But this is really just due to swampy the bog. That animal is powerful. Now I didn't have him before so I can't say how much more powerful. I'm guessing a lot. If you play without the animal I think you will find lore master plenty challenging.

    I hope they keep it about like it is. Before Helms Deep I found things way too difficult and frustrating. I would be happy with a 25% reduction to the LM animal. But right now I'm giving it all I have to get my LM her legendary item before they take away swampy's oomph. I suspect I would have to wait to level 50 to get it if things were as they used to be.

    My level 85 Hunter is quite happily soloing purple mobs (lvl 93 and 94). Sure he misses a lot and has to *gasp* use some cooldowns, but it's hardly heart in the mouth stuff. My RK just finds it laughable. On level mobs are lucky to last more than two clicks.

    It's ridiculously easy.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brandywine
    Posts
    2,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug View Post
    My level 85 Hunter is quite happily soloing purple mobs
    This must be another undocumented change. We could not damage a purple mob before HD.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    S Korea
    Posts
    961
    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    This must be another undocumented change. We could not damage a purple mob before HD.
    Quite.

    Go ahead and try it. It really is not difficult.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lumbercamp
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by Ioffryd View Post
    Why not? Serious question. Why not, if this will restore a level of balance and challenge that you find appropriate to your play?

    It's what I've been doing (see my earlier post in this thread), and it works great. While there is a certain visceral thrill to 1-shotting mobs and holding off entire hordes of enemies single-handedly, I'd much rather work for it, use all my skills, think hard, prepare with consumables, etc. If my shiny raid gear and maxed LI's trivialize the majority of landscape content, then the solution seems simple - I can't change the mobs, but I can change my clothes.

    In this respect, Turbine has given us all the tools we need to customize the difficulty level to suit our own tastes. If you want to feel uber-epic as you plow through endless waves of sword-fodder, the get yourself tealed up with all the best relics, max your Virtues, fill your trait trees, and march out secure in the knowlege of your own unstoppableness.

    On the other hand, if you'd rather see Signature mobs as something to take seriously and Elites as a mortal threat; if you want to be careful with your pulls; if you want to get real use out of scrolls, food, hope tokens, etc.; then grab some generic gear (Skirmish vendors are a great place for this), put your LI's aside, and go with a balanced hybrid trait build... or (as I did) no trait build at all.

    The game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. Personal choice. It's a great thing.

    I have the similar solution to people who may find the landscape difficult. You want it easier? Go buy yourself the best possible gear on Ah... See? it works both ways.
    [url=http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/index.php][img]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/5/4/9/0/0/5654900bzdgw.png[/img][/url]

 

 
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