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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    265

    Skillls that move when switching trait trees

    How are we supposed to handle this? For example, on my runekeeper... i have 2 trees, one for lightning, one for healing. For healing, I'd like the healing skills on the main bar where I can get to them with 1-6. In lightning, i have the basic lightning skills in those slots. However, there's a couple of the healing skills (e.g., Word of Exaltation) that I have slotted regardless of which tree I'm using. If I'm in the healing tree, and put those skills in that part of the bar, they stay there when I switch traits, and my damage skills are stuck elsewhere on the bar (seemingly at random the first time) where they're not particularly accessible. If there aren't any 'permanent' skills in a conflicting spot, everything works fine, the skills are back to where I had them before.

    Has anyone had any luck with this? The way it is now, it's making me not want to change skill trees very often as I have to spend time moving stuff around every time so I can use it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000000478c3/signature.png]Grinz[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Here
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    I can't believe there is no tutorial or anything.
    No information on how the points system works much less navigating it.
    How was the set number of points awarded are determined,
    how additional points are accumulated..
    are they earned, purchased, some combination thereof, etc..
    I can only think to start a new character and re-learn my class in the hopes of gleaning some small measure of useful insight.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    33
    They need to associate quickslots with your trait tree spec.

    Until they do this I am not going to bother to play. I got sick of moving my skills back into the correct places after the first time it happened.

  4. #4
    I too have this issue.

    I agree they should have

    A) Added a hot bar for each spec you pick - especially since you can pay mithril to have more than 2 configurations. I'm low enough level on the one toon I've configured so far that it's only a couple of skills that move, but still . . .
    B) Or, leave them in place once you've configured a spec.
    C) Yes, added some sort of tutorial. I have a deed that will complete once I've completed another class deed, which I haven't seen pop yet, and have no idea how to get it.

    This was a massive change to the game. The original system was not broken in any way, and I like this new system, but really - to make this big of a change they should have worked on things like this.

    Disappointing oversight on the Design Lead's part in this.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Westchester, NY
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    774
    Turbine won't even acknowledge the issue. There have been multiple people posting about this, even in beta

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    710
    Yeah, biggest issue for me in HD, really ruins joy of playing .... Doesnt seem to be a hard fix, so turbine what is the hold up?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Here
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    QuickSlot Debockle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
    How are we supposed to handle this? .....If there aren't any 'permanent' skills in a conflicting spot, everything works fine, the skills are back to where I had them before. The way it is now, it's making me not want to change skill trees very often as I have to spend time moving stuff around every time so I can use it.
    I am struggling with this very issue. IT IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING. What's the point of having additional tabs much less renaming them??

    Also, Trait Tree Panel takes up the entire screen (Yes I play on a laptop) and I cannot see my hotbars/quickslots while retraiting which only complicates things further.
    Last edited by Breeon; Nov 25 2013 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    S Korea
    Posts
    961
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
    How are we supposed to handle this? For example, on my runekeeper... i have 2 trees, one for lightning, one for healing. For healing, I'd like the healing skills on the main bar where I can get to them with 1-6. In lightning, i have the basic lightning skills in those slots. However, there's a couple of the healing skills (e.g., Word of Exaltation) that I have slotted regardless of which tree I'm using. If I'm in the healing tree, and put those skills in that part of the bar, they stay there when I switch traits, and my damage skills are stuck elsewhere on the bar (seemingly at random the first time) where they're not particularly accessible. If there aren't any 'permanent' skills in a conflicting spot, everything works fine, the skills are back to where I had them before.

    Has anyone had any luck with this? The way it is now, it's making me not want to change skill trees very often as I have to spend time moving stuff around every time so I can use it.

    This was reported in Beta 1 and it has been ignored by the developers ever since.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug View Post
    This was reported in Beta 1 and it has been ignored by the developers ever since.
    If enough people keep complaining about it maybe something will change. It can't be that complicated. There is a secondary panel, for example, when switching to mounted combat. I've brought this up in global channel and some people didn't even seem to know what I was talking about. Others say, "well that's what we've got now so.." So what? I love the visual changes and the stylistic additions to the game. I can even accept the trait trees, but I just DO NOT see how these other matters can go unnoticed.
    Last edited by Breeon; Nov 25 2013 at 08:24 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    4

    RK switching trees

    With all respect to developers, it´s still looking as some alpha or beta release.
    I have completely same issues with "remembering" skills order in quickbars. It´s completely not possible to switch in time-pressure with this "random" skills quickbar filling. I think "greyed" skills from other specialization IS THE SOLUTION. But - as many before said, developers are deaf and blind for these requests.
    RK lost their diversity of play at all. Imagine very common situation - you are healing whole group and at some point you NEED to be dps, very powerful one. This is completely not possible with new trait systems, because you have almost no skills in lightning tree. Very, very frustrating. I´m not a blind complainer, but this class really LOST his perfect fight flexibility.

  11. #11
    Yep, same issue here, this made me almost go crazy yesterday, and after a few tests, only solution I've found so that I can change my build currently is to save a complete bar (Alt+...) for the "trees skills", not really the best as I always used to sort my skills by type, effect...

  12. #12
    There is a workaround for this issue.

    However I can promise you won't like it, as it requires purchasing a extra spec tab and leaving it blank.

    I would suggest reading the entire Guide to get a clear picture of what happens and why, but if you start from the above link you'll see the workaround down a little bit.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    4

    Gedachtnis guide

    Thank you, Gedachtnis, I think all quick-bar complainers have read your perfect guide. From my perspective is worth it to invest 100 MC. On the other hand - I need to pay for something what was pretty common and streightforward before update? :-) Now I got the point why there are software updates, haha. I know you got my point.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    921
    Yep that needs to be fixed asap, defeats the point of being able to switch speccs on the fly if you get your skills messed up each time.

    Thanks for the guide Ged, principally i don't have a problem with buying extra trait slots but i won't pay 100 MC to fix a problem Turbine introduced.
    Nothing here matters.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Long Cleeve, Unspecified Farthing
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    This was very aggravating yesterday. If not fixed, I'll not be playing some classes much. And this is why I pretty much quit beta after round 2. I enjoyed this xpac launch the least out of all of them, and that was due primarily because of this issue; was even more irritating than having to relearn how to play each class.

    @Turbine : You need to make this a priority, or you're going to lose people over it.

    Don't come up work a way to work around it. Come up with a proper solution. Suggestion : Assign each of the 168 quickslots a unique identifier for each trait tab, and track what's assigned to that slot. That's 336 "addresses" for two trait tabs, and an additional 168 for each trait tab purchased. For each trait tab, store whats in each of the 168. When a player switches between trait tabs, run a diff between the sets and send the info to the client.

    I imagine this means you're storing more data, but hopefully the diff means less info to transmit. Its not an elegant solution. It means a lot to store at your end. If you can fine a more elegant solution that works consistently, great. But meanwhile, you need to do something like this that works consistently. And you need to do it quickly. You've been informed about this for months. You've forced it on us, so its your responsibility to fix it. Please get it done.
    [FONT=Verdana][CENTER][COLOR=#666666]Silverlode lvl100 raiding characters: [/COLOR][COLOR=#FF0000]Glaistig [COLOR=#FFFF00]Skop[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#666666] | lvl100 solo and small group characters: Bede, Elentir, & Wibba[/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [/FONT]
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/sierraechotango/LOTRO/Sigwwwdjelledk003_zps89225b3e.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=#666666][COLOR="#FFA500"]Moochinbras [/COLOR]- former expert treasure-hunter of Silverlode, now enjoying retirement on Landroval [/COLOR][/CENTER]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
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    You don't have to save an entirely different bar for tree skills, but you do have to make sure you don't move common skills onto slots where tree skills will show up. For example, I have Shadow's Lament on my - key when red line traited, and Valiant Strike on that same key when blue line traited. So far I've had no problems with the skill going back to the same slot.

    (And yeah, they really do need to fix this ASAP. Really, I'm still not sure why they don't just give you a set of bars for each trait setup, and have you automatically switch to a different bar when you use a different trait setup, a la automatic switching for mounted combat.)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    (And yeah, they really do need to fix this ASAP. Really, I'm still not sure why they don't just give you a set of bars for each trait setup, and have you automatically switch to a different bar when you use a different trait setup, a la automatic switching for mounted combat.)
    Yes, this is how it should have been done, IMO.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    You don't have to save an entirely different bar for tree skills, but you do have to make sure you don't move common skills onto slots where tree skills will show up. For example, I have Shadow's Lament on my - key when red line traited, and Valiant Strike on that same key when blue line traited. So far I've had no problems with the skill going back to the same slot.

    (And yeah, they really do need to fix this ASAP. Really, I'm still not sure why they don't just give you a set of bars for each trait setup, and have you automatically switch to a different bar when you use a different trait setup, a la automatic switching for mounted combat.)
    This is the largest factor about the memory issue. It doesn't effect everyone.

    I'm going to guess that you only use 1 quickbar set (shield/sword/horse) and have all builds always load onto that set. You already said that you keep your general skills in the same places between builds.

    As I pointed out in the guide, if that is your playstyle, the bug doesn't effect you. You won''t even know it's there. Try putting your general skills in the same spots on 2 different quickbar sets. The memory will not hold. Unless you get your character to a non traited state before switching quickbar sets. The only way to do that is to have a Spec Tab available that is empty so you can load it as a build.

    And yes allowing us to assign a build to a quickbarset would be great.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Long Cleeve, Unspecified Farthing
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    359
    I am affected, despite having all my common skills always in the same places. I also ensure that no two trait-granted skills share a space. I use only skillbar-set-1 for unmounted combat. I use skillbar-set-3 for mounted combat, and skillbar-set-2 for travel skills, fest emotes, non-combat skills, and the like. I've keymapped ctrl-alt-z to quickslot-pageup which I use to cycle between the skillbar sets. Even when only switching traitsets while on skillbar-set-1, I get fubared.

    But I find myself wanting to switch trait sets before engaging different difficulty warbands too, due to the passive bonuses available from the trait sets. Cannot do that either... have to dismount, verify I'm on set 1, switch trait sets, hope I dont get screwed anyways, then remount to enter MC in a different role. Even purchasing an empty traitset wouldn't prevent that problem, would it?
    [FONT=Verdana][CENTER][COLOR=#666666]Silverlode lvl100 raiding characters: [/COLOR][COLOR=#FF0000]Glaistig [COLOR=#FFFF00]Skop[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=#666666] | lvl100 solo and small group characters: Bede, Elentir, & Wibba[/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [/FONT]
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu6/sierraechotango/LOTRO/Sigwwwdjelledk003_zps89225b3e.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=#666666][COLOR="#FFA500"]Moochinbras [/COLOR]- former expert treasure-hunter of Silverlode, now enjoying retirement on Landroval [/COLOR][/CENTER]

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Guys been asked to post here as i found a bit of a workround for this in beta , but not sure if it works now though.


    First off unfortunately your going to have to wipe your trees and start from scratch.

    basically what i found is when you save your specs, it saves where you have put your skills too. But if you save it and havent placed any skills then the problems start.

    So what you need to do is, wipe your trees back to scratch, then re spend your points but do not save your spec yet, first sort out your skill bars and place your skills where you want them then save your spec.

    Then do your other trees in the same way.

    During beta i found I had to do that with every new skill i got when levelling as well, not completely wipe the tree but just make sure you save your trees AFTER you slot any new skills in your bars.

    ***** disclaimer, this may or may not work,and I understand if you dont want to risk your gold to reset your trees to see if it works for you, it worked for me during beta but I kept forgetting to do it after round 3 or so and got fed up with starting again so I just lived with it for the rest of beta******

    If someone does try it please come back and tell people so they can a, do it themselves, or b,stop people from wasting gold if it doesnt work,

    Kind Regards,
    Andthelion.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    Guys been asked to post here as i found a bit of a workround for this in beta , but not sure if it works now though.
    First off unfortunately your going to have to wipe your trees and start from scratch.
    basically what i found is when you save your specs, it saves where you have put your skills too. But if you save it and havent placed any skills then the problems start...
    ..first sort out your skill bars and place your skills where you want them then save your spec.
    Then do your other trees in the same way.
    During beta i found I had to do that with every new skill i got when levelling as well, not completely wipe the tree but just make sure you save your trees AFTER you slot any new skills in your bars.
    Thank you for your input. Your suggestion to start from scratch, and your mention of the relation between spec and skill saving is something to think about.
    It stinks that we aren't afforded free trial runs of this, but that is another matter which has been talked about in other posts.
    I also did Beta, albeit briefly, and I don't remember this headache.
    There definitely seems much less freedom in where and how to assign various skills on the hotbars in relation to certain combinations.
    When two skills overlap, don't they get automatically reassigned though?
    I guess I'm going to have to take another stab at this and whatever gold it takes just eat the cost.
    Another concern I have is that the Trait Tree Panel takes up nearly my entire (laptop) screen and I cannot see my hotbars as I am traiting.
    Can I switch the screen on and off w/out saving for this purpose? So that I can see what the heck I'm doing?
    ~ Thanks again

    edit: THIS ISSUE IS REALLY MAKING GAME-PLAY SUCK
    Last edited by Breeon; Nov 25 2013 at 08:26 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedachtnis View Post
    As I pointed out in the guide, if that is your playstyle, the bug doesn't effect you. You won''t even know it's there. Try putting your general skills in the same spots on 2 different quickbar sets. The memory will not hold.
    Out of curiosity (since we've established the problem doesn't affect me, this answer won't really affect me either, I'm just interested in how it's working exactly) but if you move, say... one potion on top of where a tree skill would go (we'll say slot 6), and then switch trees, would it be just that tree skill that gets displaced, every tree skill from 6 onwards, or every single tree skill no matter where it is? It's a little tougher for me to test on cappy 'cause we don't get too many skills through the tree to begin with, and my two builds share quite a few of those skills as it is. (Plus I'm just lazy and I'm hoping someone has already tested this.)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Breeon View Post
    Thank you for your input. Your suggestion to start from scratch, and your mention of the relation between spec and skill saving is something to think about.
    It stinks that we aren't afforded free trial runs of this, but that is another matter which has been talked about in other posts.
    I also did Beta, albeit briefly, and I don't remember this headache.
    There definitely seems much less freedom in where and how to assign various skills on the hotbars in relation to certain combinations.
    When two skills overlap, don't they get automatically reassigned though?
    I guess I'm going to have to take another stab at this and whatever gold it takes just eat the cost.
    Another concern I have is that the Trait Tree Panel takes up nearly my entire (laptop) screen and I cannot see my hotbars as I am traiting.
    Can I switch the screen on and off w/out saving for this purpose? So that I can see what the heck I'm doing?
    ~ Thanks again
    hmm i cant say I ever had that issue I think i put the trait tree panel in the top left corner of the screen and that allowed me to do my skillbars, allthough I have reduced the size of my skillbars from default but I did have all 5 active.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    774
    Hey all, just an update. Sapience has confirmed that this is a bug and is being worked on. A fix most likely wont be ready for next patch, but they are looking into it.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    Hey all, just an update. Sapience has confirmed that this is a bug and is being worked on. A fix most likely wont be ready for next patch, but they are looking into it.
    Thank you for this. Can you add the link here? I checked the release notes and did not find anything. Thanks.

 

 
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