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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    London
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Yes, that's in my opinion one change that has to be addressed on next update or patch. Because on previous updates somehow this was not a problem given amount of mitigations needed to cap them were almost the same for medium and for heavy, and vitality was almost everything that mattered. Now that only source of mitigation is armour rating and some armour or buffs, we will need to get that fixed. Come on, full buffed with both relics and tittles on weapons for mitigations, using scroll and shield tactics (all lvl 95 gear) it's hard even to reach 40% mitigations, with 11k rating.
    And btw, is there yet a legacy for +shield tactics tactical mitigation? Cause it's been ages since last time I saw it.
    Uncertain how you're having such issues reaching 40% mits, I'm at 45% in my dps build (assuming you mean common and not FW/OC?) In my mits build I am capped for phys and at about 40% for tactical. FW and OC sitting at around 40% in mits build, which in my opinion is way too low but having the vast majority of mits boosting items (without totally destroying my build by having no crit, mastery, or morale) I can't reach anywhere near what a heavy can and it takes me a lot more gear changing to get there, too. Very annoying, not asking to be a heavy but I'd at least like to be competitive.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Uncertain how you're having such issues reaching 40% mits, I'm at 45% in my dps build (assuming you mean common and not FW/OC?) In my mits build I am capped for phys and at about 40% for tactical. FW and OC sitting at around 40% in mits build, which in my opinion is way too low but having the vast majority of mits boosting items (without totally destroying my build by having no crit, mastery, or morale) I can't reach anywhere near what a heavy can and it takes me a lot more gear changing to get there, too. Very annoying, not asking to be a heavy but I'd at least like to be competitive.
    I'm having problems to reach 40% tactical mitigation (I'm not using old armour of lvl 75 with mitigation stat because I will wait for that until they add some to new gear on future updates). I use lvl 95 gear with shield carving, with both crafted relics for mitigations, scrolls, virtues ( I'm yet ranking last one for 800 more mitigations but won't make a huge difference). And after using warding scrolls, shield tactics and conviction buff I reach 42% tactical mitigation (with around 2k rating from buffs and 2% from buff and also 1k more from scroll). I don't know what else can I do to increase mitigations (I'm no longer VIP so getting moors rings is not possible to me).
    My computer is now not available to check but I think base mitigation from armour + virtues is a total of 4-5k. After relics it reaches around 1.5k more (so around 6k), add to that carving for 1700 more (7700 for now), and add around 400 in total for fate+will (8100). And that's aproximately what I have unbuffed, scroll + shield tactics make around 11k, and with conviction it is 11500 and 2% more, so I don't see how could I get close to cap using only shield tactics, scroll, captain buffs... maybe with LM bird + that necklace from orthanc cluster I could reach 46% losing around 1k morale and buffing myself to max.
    Any suggestion on what am I doing wrong?

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I'm having problems to reach 40% tactical mitigation (I'm not using old armour of lvl 75 with mitigation stat because I will wait for that until they add some to new gear on future updates). I use lvl 95 gear with shield carving, with both crafted relics for mitigations, scrolls, virtues ( I'm yet ranking last one for 800 more mitigations but won't make a huge difference). And after using warding scrolls, shield tactics and conviction buff I reach 42% tactical mitigation (with around 2k rating from buffs and 2% from buff and also 1k more from scroll). I don't know what else can I do to increase mitigations (I'm no longer VIP so getting moors rings is not possible to me).
    My computer is now not available to check but I think base mitigation from armour + virtues is a total of 4-5k. After relics it reaches around 1.5k more (so around 6k), add to that carving for 1700 more (7700 for now), and add around 400 in total for fate+will (8100). And that's aproximately what I have unbuffed, scroll + shield tactics make around 11k, and with conviction it is 11500 and 2% more, so I don't see how could I get close to cap using only shield tactics, scroll, captain buffs... maybe with LM bird + that necklace from orthanc cluster I could reach 46% losing around 1k morale and buffing myself to max.
    Any suggestion on what am I doing wrong?
    moors ring set is the primary lvl 95 option for mits.
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  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    moors ring set is the primary lvl 95 option for mits.
    So I either pay VIP again or I'm losing high mitigations?, good, I'll need to check on some lvl 75 or 85 gear, maybe I can get 5k more by only losing 2-3k morale.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Rohan
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    876
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    I'm having problems to reach 40% tactical mitigation (I'm not using old armour of lvl 75 with mitigation stat because I will wait for that until they add some to new gear on future updates). I use lvl 95 gear with shield carving, with both crafted relics for mitigations, scrolls, virtues ( I'm yet ranking last one for 800 more mitigations but won't make a huge difference). And after using warding scrolls, shield tactics and conviction buff I reach 42% tactical mitigation (with around 2k rating from buffs and 2% from buff and also 1k more from scroll). I don't know what else can I do to increase mitigations (I'm no longer VIP so getting moors rings is not possible to me).
    My computer is now not available to check but I think base mitigation from armour + virtues is a total of 4-5k. After relics it reaches around 1.5k more (so around 6k), add to that carving for 1700 more (7700 for now), and add around 400 in total for fate+will (8100). And that's aproximately what I have unbuffed, scroll + shield tactics make around 11k, and with conviction it is 11500 and 2% more, so I don't see how could I get close to cap using only shield tactics, scroll, captain buffs... maybe with LM bird + that necklace from orthanc cluster I could reach 46% losing around 1k morale and buffing myself to max.
    Any suggestion on what am I doing wrong?
    Well, a couple things. You don't -really- NEED the moors rings. Sure, it's a very nice jump, but you can get very close to 50% mits with the right gear, virtues, and a couple gambits. I'm currently working on getting my warden up to max mit, and I'm getting very close. Here's what I have that adds tactical mitigation:

    1) Shield Tactics Tactical Mitigation Legacy (almost doubles the amount of tac mit that this gambit does from a SA LI). I get 2895 TM from this gambit in blue line.
    2) Devices of Protection for your crafted relic LI slots. Westemnet gives 370 Crit Defense, and more importantly 740 Physical AND Tactical mitigation. Put one on your hand weapon and javelin. That's 1480 TM.
    3) Tac Mit Carving. + 1621 TM.
    4) Eorlingas Warding Lore Scroll. Gives +1369 PM and TM.
    5) Stack some fate. +1 TM for each points of fate. It adds up, especially if you get the crafted fangorn medium armor tanking set. Some pieces give +124 fate.
    6) LI relics (other than devices of protection). I haven't gone this route myself because I hate all the time it takes to grind out relics, but you can pick some up this way.
    7) Fellowship buffs. Cappies, Lore-Masters, and Minstrels (I think) all have ways of providing mit buffs. Chances are you'll have one of these in your group, so keep that in mind.
    8) Virtues

    After all these buffs, my TM gets up to 46.6%, and I still have a few levels of Tolerance and Fidelity to grind out.
    Aethelbehrt ~ Captain of Landroval
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  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Othniel View Post
    Well, a couple things. You don't -really- NEED the moors rings. Sure, it's a very nice jump, but you can get very close to 50% mits with the right gear, virtues, and a couple gambits. I'm currently working on getting my warden up to max mit, and I'm getting very close. Here's what I have that adds tactical mitigation:

    1) Shield Tactics Tactical Mitigation Legacy (almost doubles the amount of tac mit that this gambit does from a SA LI). I get 2895 TM from this gambit in blue line.
    2) Devices of Protection for your crafted relic LI slots. Westemnet gives 370 Crit Defense, and more importantly 740 Physical AND Tactical mitigation. Put one on your hand weapon and javelin. That's 1480 TM.
    3) Tac Mit Carving. + 1621 TM.
    4) Eorlingas Warding Lore Scroll. Gives +1369 PM and TM.
    5) Stack some fate. +1 TM for each points of fate. It adds up, especially if you get the crafted fangorn medium armor tanking set. Some pieces give +124 fate.
    6) LI relics (other than devices of protection). I haven't gone this route myself because I hate all the time it takes to grind out relics, but you can pick some up this way.
    7) Fellowship buffs. Cappies, Lore-Masters, and Minstrels (I think) all have ways of providing mit buffs. Chances are you'll have one of these in your group, so keep that in mind.
    8) Virtues

    After all these buffs, my TM gets up to 46.6%, and I still have a few levels of Tolerance and Fidelity to grind out.
    I got 2+3 already, Virtues (8) to max. and warding lore scrolls. I should get tact mitigation legacy for shield tactics then, that's the only thing I'm missing, because I would need like 1k more fate to increase a noticeable % of mitigation. Maybe I'll use a couple items of lvl 75 that gave 2k tact mitigation each.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    Did a little testing today to see the current state of warden bugs...

    1) Recklessness trait: No Mercy is still broken.
    - If traited, the 'spear sweep' will not go off. Ever.

    2) Assailment trait: Piercing Javelins is still broken.
    - still increases mob mitigations to ranged gambits instead of lowering. Only tested with Ranged Wall of Steel.
    Example (from my test build today vs. Aldburg dummy):
    Piercing not traited: RWoS crit 5668, dev 7838
    Piercing (1): RWoS crit 5457, dev 7548
    Piercing (2): RWoS crit 5437, dev 7520
    Piercing (3): RWoS crit 5415, dev 7489

    3) On the bright(?) side, found another bug: ranged gambits from battle memory are unaffected by Piercing Javelins.

    4) Assailment skill: Snapshot - Javelin of Deadly Force is fixed.
    - it can now hit targets upslope or downslope. JODF itself was similarly fixed recently.
    - JODF and S-JODF are (and always have been) unaffected by Javelin Skills Max Range legacy; guessing that's a tech thing.

    5) Fire/Light Oil do not change damage type on:
    - Assailment skill: Snapshot - Ambush
    - Assailment skill: Dodge This!
    - Assailment skill: Marked Target
    - Assailment skill: Diminished Target
    - Quick Toss (javelin gambit builder)
    - all ranged (weapon damage) gambits
    - ranged autoattacks
    Though I expect it's a tech limitation for autoattacks, gambits, and quick toss.

    6) Resolution and Resounding Challenge from battle memory are fixed.
    One or the other of these used to do no damage from battle memory, though it may have been fixed in Update 13.

    7) Morale-taps now do light damage (instead of untyped damage). However, their damage is unaffected by '+light-type damage' boosts.
    - They are also unaffected by physical or tactical mastery (and always have been).

    8) Mitigation tables for medium armor classes are messed up; they need more armor to cap than heavies do.

    9) 'Spear gambit damage' boosts are still broken.
    - They (traits, traitline bonuses, legacies, equipment set bonuses) do not affect ranged spear (javelin) gambits.
    - They all worked for ranged gambits prior to HD, albeit bugged like spear-shield gambit damage boosts (see below).
    - Similar boosts (spear gambit power cost, spear-shield gambit damage, fist-spear gambit power cost, etc.) still nominally work for ranged gambits.

    10) 'Spear-shield gambit damage' boosts are still broken.
    - Melee gambits obtain the full boost, but ranged gambits in many cases only get partial benefit; for example, RWoS gets +6.3% damage from +20% spear-shield gambit damage boost.


    Also, did some testing of blue line traits...
    11) Determination trait: War-Cry...
    - increases evade rating of 'War-Cry' and 'Brink of Victory' gambits but NOT 'Surety of Death'.

    12) Determination trait: Impressive Flourish...
    - adds its bonuses to 'Impressive Flourish' and 'Maddening Strike' gambits but NOT 'Dance of War' or 'Conviction'.

    13) Determination traitline bonus: Elegant Finish...
    - needs to swap the text for 'Surety of Death' and 'Dance of War'. (Trivial, but may as well be mentioned.)

    14) Determination trait: Unassailable...
    - increases 'Surety of Death' evade rating by 144 (10%) as advertised, but also increases 'Brink of Victory' evade rating by 144 (~11%-15% depending on War-Cry trait) and 'War-Cry' gambit evade by 194 (20%-31% depending on War-Cry trait).

    EDIT: Still need to test attack durations, though there is a pretty good idea for how they work here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...70#post7157670



    These are just bugs, discrepancies between listed and actual effects. As for utility, everything with a rating should either be increased - in most cases, dramatically - or converted to a % boost so they exceed caps, where there are caps (block parry evade crit). A few hundred rating when caps are ~16k doesn't go very far; even less so when discussing a stat with no cap (crit defense, physical mastery). On that note: in my regular build, Assailment skill: Fire at Will (+760 mastery) increases my damage by 0.56% +- 0.04% (to account for rounding) without any buffs on (less relative gain if there were). That's not worth using.

    And last, a general question: Can anyone tell me if the Determination skill: Defiant Challenge damage reflect works against orc-craft and fell-wrought? Its description only says common, fire, shadow - so either the tooltip or the skill itself need updating to stay current.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    Forgot to mention the untyped damage!
    Most of the untyped damage skills have been fixed (bleeds, morale-taps). The remaining untyped damage bleeds are:
    - Tenacious Warden (bleed from HD set jewelry)
    - Ranged Unerring Strike
    - Quick Toss - Bloodied (10% chance to apply bleed from javelin builder Quick Toss)

    Oh, and I haven't been afflicted by the doubling legacies from weapon bug for a few days, though maybe I've just been lucky.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    10) 'Spear-shield gambit damage' boosts are still broken.
    - Melee gambits obtain the full boost, but ranged gambits in many cases only get partial benefit; for example, RWoS gets +6.3% damage from +20% spear-shield gambit damage boost.
    I went over the numbers again recently and worked out how the spear-shield gambit damage boosts actually work. (Thank goodness for spreadsheets.)

    It turns out they are additive with both melee and ranged gambits; I didn't test all gambits, just some select ones that I will list here:

    Gambit modifier +10% spear gambit dmg +20% SpSh gambit dmg
    Onslaught 85% x3 95% x3 115% x3
    WoS 100% x3 110% x3 130% x3
    DbD 100% x2 110% x2 130% x2
    rOnslaught 269% 269% 289%
    rWoS 315% 315% 335%
    rDbD 210% 210% 230%

    The Dark Before Dawn values do not include the bonus damage as that is not a multiplier of the weapon's base damage.

    So it turns out the Spear-shield gambit damage *is* working correctly; the Assailment gambits listed here are just penalized for being a single hit attack instead of separate hits that each get the bonus. These are not the only ranged gambits whose melee versions are multihit attacks, but they are the most prominent ones.

    With that said, spear gambit damage is still broken and not applying to ranged gambits (on live; haven't been on BR yet). If they were fixed, then they would have a reduced effect on the ranged gambits listed above in the same way that spear-shield gambit damage already does, but hey a reduced bonus would be better than none at all. This is especially true due to how prevalent the spear gambit damage boost is: red trait and traitline bonuses, an LI legacy, a Big Battle jewelry set bonus, and at present (though it may change) the only new warden armor set so far with U14.

    On an unrelated note, once U14 goes live I might start this thread anew; many of the issues mentioned in it have already been addressed.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

 

 
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