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  1. #126
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    delay

    Some javelins and assailtment gambits do the same delay.

  2. #127
    Yep SoD is messed up. I'm using SoV instead in my rotations right now... Slightly less upfront damage, but same DoT and chance for 2 of them.
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  3. #128
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    Isn't Steadfast supposed to work at an instant now? My character still does this 'WOAH WHATS GOING ON AROUND HERE?' animation, takes forever.

    Why are the builders during Battle Prep not instant casts? I'm still new to LotRO, it's beyond me how you guys haven't gone crazy with flailing at the air and standing around for what feels like an eternity while you cast your builders prefight. It only works out of combat anyways, so there really is no reason for it to have an animation and take a global cooldown to execute.

    Forced March needs to be a toggled stance, whose effect is turned off during combat. Hitting the button after every single fight just gets so tedious.

    And speaking of tedium, this is really a reoccuring theme with the class. When I made my warden I thought of a nimble, flexible spear-wielding superelf. Instead I'm constantly being shackled by something, please remove all these awful mechanics which slow the class down to a crawl.

    Spears are so underrepresented in mmos, I really don't want to reroll.

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by bytes View Post
    Why are the builders during Battle Prep not instant casts? I'm still new to LotRO, it's beyond me how you guys haven't gone crazy with flailing at the air and standing around for what feels like an eternity while you cast your builders prefight. It only works out of combat anyways, so there really is no reason for it to have an animation and take a global cooldown to execute.
    I would suggest building gambits with masteries... They do not go on CD while in Battle Prep.

    For example you can spam Shield-Fist 3 times to give you a pre-battle conviction.

    you are right tho i don't understand why there are those unnecissary annimations but its an easywork around to just use masteries because its quicker anyway.
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  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by bytes View Post
    Isn't Steadfast supposed to work at an instant now? My character still does this 'WOAH WHATS GOING ON AROUND HERE?' animation, takes forever.

    Why are the builders during Battle Prep not instant casts? I'm still new to LotRO, it's beyond me how you guys haven't gone crazy with flailing at the air and standing around for what feels like an eternity while you cast your builders prefight. It only works out of combat anyways, so there really is no reason for it to have an animation and take a global cooldown to execute.

    Forced March needs to be a toggled stance, whose effect is turned off during combat. Hitting the button after every single fight just gets so tedious.

    And speaking of tedium, this is really a reoccuring theme with the class. When I made my warden I thought of a nimble, flexible spear-wielding superelf. Instead I'm constantly being shackled by something, please remove all these awful mechanics which slow the class down to a crawl.

    Spears are so underrepresented in mmos, I really don't want to reroll.
    The 'WOAH WHATS GOING ON AROUND HERE? animation I believe is the "recovery" animation it lasts 1 second and has always been in the game whenever you recover from a stun/knockdown etc...

    I agree with the battle prep thing. It was a stylistic choice that Orion made (I mean they had to make whole new animations for many of the builders) but yah it just slows stuff down. Guess that's why I typically only use shield mastery now.

    While forced march would be nice as a toggle, up to HD it had an -80% power pool penalty (and maybe even a longer cooldown, can't remember). It is so much better now that I am not ready to complain about it yet, lol.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderchickn View Post
    Yep SoD is messed up. I'm using SoV instead in my rotations right now... Slightly less upfront damage, but same DoT and chance for 2 of them.
    EDIT* Didn't realize the context of your post. Sorry XD. I will note however, that while DPS'ing i find masteries that i would use for SoD, are instead better used for desolation. Therefore, I pretty much never use SoD anymore as it is. Seems kind of a useless gambit nowadays.


    Although, I have not noticed the required attack between SoD and next action, that's interesting.
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  7. #132
    Warden Earrings Level 85 are fixed.

    Thx Egg, seems there is still hope

  8. #133
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    You lost me there; what earrings were fixed and what was broken about them?
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    You lost me there; what earrings were fixed and what was broken about them?
    gold earring from ITA cluster that (now) gives MT/DT debuff.

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by CM-Amenophis View Post
    -DoT Duration is still to low to have a good DoT rotation. Increase Duration or lower triggercount from 4 to 2 seconds (same as Loremasters)
    -Increase HoT from +3 to +5. Otherwise we will be forced to use 85 Sets
    -Change Determination Capstone already! Almost every Person during Beta told you that it is absolutely useless!
    HoT duration used to be 24s default, 30s with set bonus. Now: 15s default, 21s with set bonus. We need +3 HoT pulses!
    DoT duration is too low, we need some +pulses as well.
    Determination Capstone is useless. Change this to +% incoming healing or -% incoming damage or something more useful.

    Tank wardens are getting on hit +150% (!!!) more damage than Guardians (80% permanent mitigations vs 50% with only temporary buffs).
    I've been hit for 20k to over 30k in raids. Some raids do not give chances to avoid such attacks (no BPE nor resist on these attacks).

    Gambit builder removals do not work out of combat but DO go on cooldown once used.
    This is particularly frustrating in Big Battles, where you are left with some random trash gambit builders in your gambit panel.
    If you use Recovery in the wrong moment, you are left with no way to change your gambit for several seconds.
    Last edited by hurant; Jan 26 2014 at 08:05 AM. Reason: formatting

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    You and Constrictions really haven't considered the possibilities with assailment? I can kill the raid sized warband in HD, on foot, without ever taking a single hit in response. If I hit a reaver before they get charge off, I can kill them without EVER taking a hit, and if they do get it off, they must kill be before the charge duration expires.

    Assailment may lack the raw damage of recklessness, but a 45% slow, in-combat knockdown with 40m range, those unmitigated bleed, and those heals from range make for every bit of the fotm faceroll people primarily interested in 'winning' are looking for.
    I wasn't actually aware of the 45% slow, I assumed it remained at 30%.

    Nonetheless, I'm not seeing any wardens using assailment at the moment. Too much emphasis on movement I would imagine.

    Don't think it would be incredibly potent versus blackarrows and weavers at the moment either, although I may be wrong. I'm looking at getting some mithril coins to grab another trait slot to test it out.

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    I wasn't actually aware of the 45% slow, I assumed it remained at 30%.

    Nonetheless, I'm not seeing any wardens using assailment at the moment. Too much emphasis on movement I would imagine.

    Don't think it would be incredibly potent versus blackarrows and weavers at the moment either, although I may be wrong. I'm looking at getting some mithril coins to grab another trait slot to test it out.
    It absolutely has some drawbacks, and my commentary was from back before the fix to bleed damage, so assailment DPS is rather weak in comparison to when I made that post (to the point where I'd bet either class would have a good chance to outdps you even with self-heals. The potential of the stance lies in fighting reavers and wargs though. Where a warg MUST use either a brand or sprint, and really both to have a chance at victory, and a reaver must be smart with using resilience and hope the warden doesn't get a timely proc on snap shot for in-combat ambush. Either class essentially has a 20s window to kill an assailment warden while they've cleared/sprinted through the initial slow, or they just won't ever touch them again.
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  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    It absolutely has some drawbacks, and my commentary was from back before the fix to bleed damage, so assailment DPS is rather weak in comparison to when I made that post (to the point where I'd bet either class would have a good chance to outdps you even with self-heals. The potential of the stance lies in fighting reavers and wargs though. Where a warg MUST use either a brand or sprint, and really both to have a chance at victory, and a reaver must be smart with using resilience and hope the warden doesn't get a timely proc on snap shot for in-combat ambush. Either class essentially has a 20s window to kill an assailment warden while they've cleared/sprinted through the initial slow, or they just won't ever touch them again.
    20s you say? Np's.
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  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    It absolutely has some drawbacks, and my commentary was from back before the fix to bleed damage, so assailment DPS is rather weak in comparison to when I made that post (to the point where I'd bet either class would have a good chance to outdps you even with self-heals. The potential of the stance lies in fighting reavers and wargs though. Where a warg MUST use either a brand or sprint, and really both to have a chance at victory, and a reaver must be smart with using resilience and hope the warden doesn't get a timely proc on snap shot for in-combat ambush. Either class essentially has a 20s window to kill an assailment warden while they've cleared/sprinted through the initial slow, or they just won't ever touch them again.
    Well, in this update that's a very plausible possibility provided the warden doesn't self heal.

    I'm still trying to figure out why medium armour mitigation tables are worse than light armour classes.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Well, in this update that's a very plausible possibility provided the warden doesn't self heal.

    I'm still trying to figure out why medium armour mitigation tables are worse than light armour classes.
    I don't know if this is any kind of consolation, but they are also worse than those of HA classes. My terribly-traited captain has 12.x k / 53% phys mit (in dps traits); my warden has 14.7k / 45% phys mit.. (Oddly, the orc-craft/fell-wrought mitigation tables do seem correct.)
    Last edited by rannion; Apr 27 2014 at 02:51 PM.

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    I don't know if this is any kind of consolation, but they are also worse than those of HA classes. My terribly-traited captain has 12.x k / 53% phys mit (in dps traits); my warden has 14.7k / 45% phys mit.. (Oddly, the orc-craft/fell-wrought mitigation tables do seem correct.)
    Is 12k mitigation more % to heavy classes than almost 15k for medium? So apart from heavy armoured classes having higher cap and really higher armour rating, also need less mitigations to cap %? Is it WAI or bugged?

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Is 12k mitigation more % to heavy classes than almost 15k for medium? So apart from heavy armoured classes having higher cap and really higher armour rating, also need less mitigations to cap %? Is it WAI or bugged?
    not sure, but given that the OC/FW mitigations do seem scale the same irrespective of armour class (e.g. my wrd's OC/FW mit is higher %-wise than my cappy's), it seems likely that the issue is with the medium armour table.
    Last edited by rannion; Apr 28 2014 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #143
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    As far as I know, these graphs from Rise of Isengard still apply: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...23#post5735823

    The constants in those formulae have been shuffled around a bit, but I think the broad strokes hold. (In other words: Yes, medium armour requires more mitigation rating for each percent of damage reduction than heavy armour. In addition to having lower armour ratings and lower mitigation caps. No, I don't know why this seemed like a good idea to whoever did that.)
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  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Is 12k mitigation more % to heavy classes than almost 15k for medium? So apart from heavy armoured classes having higher cap and really higher armour rating, also need less mitigations to cap %? Is it WAI or bugged?
    That's WAI, and has been the case since the cap changes in RoI. This still doesn't make it fair though. A lot of stats are in need to be reconsidered, especially with a new level cap raise upcoming (which WILL wreck scaling again, if turbine doesn't take appropriate measures).
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    not sure, but given that the OC/FW mitigations do seem scale the same irrespective of armour class (e.g. my wrd's OC/FW mit is higher %-wise than my cappy's), it seems likely that the issue is with the medium armour table.
    My kinmate, who is a minstrel attested to having ~5k physical mitigation rating for 38% oc/fw
    I sit at 19k rating, I'm sitting on 38% OC/FW
    Another kinmate, who is a captain attested to having just over 20k with almost 10% more OC/FW


    The actual physical mitigation number is respective it seems. Seems to cap for light armours at 40%, medium armours at 50%, and for heavy armours 60%.
    More rating is required to additionally boost the additional damage types (OC/FW)

    E.g. I have 50% physical mitigation with just under 20k rating. I also have around 38% OC/FW

    My captain friend will probably be relatively close to capping at 60% (I would guess a couple of % off), and as a result of his armour type, has boosted OC/FW

    My minstrel friend will undeniably be capped at his armour rating of 40%, as he has probably ridiculously over-capped the necessary rating required to achieve 40%. The overcapped rating will go towards his OC/FW, which I would assume also caps at 40%.


    Haven't actually sat down to see if this is all accurate, but it sure as hell seems to be working that way.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    As far as I know, these graphs from Rise of Isengard still apply: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...23#post5735823

    The constants in those formulae have been shuffled around a bit, but I think the broad strokes hold. (In other words: Yes, medium armour requires more mitigation rating for each percent of damage reduction than heavy armour. In addition to having lower armour ratings and lower mitigation caps. No, I don't know why this seemed like a good idea to whoever did that.)
    thanks for linking those, I'd quite forgotten they existed. While that does explain why common mits behave as they do, it doesn't really explain to me why the non-common (FW/OC) curve seems to be armor-class independent. Is that WAI, or did they forget about the fact that med/light have a different mit curve from heavies?

    Aside from that, I really think this armor-class dependence should be removed one way or the other, now that they've reverted to the pre-roi mitigation caps...
    Last edited by rannion; Apr 28 2014 at 07:39 PM.

  22. #147
    Aside from the mitigation curve, which has always been a bit wonky (but it did work back in RoI):

    Orc/Fell mitigations essentially function in the same manner as tactical mitigations. Which is to say raw physical mitigation contributes directly to your orc/fell mitigation rating at a 100% effectiveness, but armour rating only contributes to Orc/Fell mitigation ratings at a 20% rate. This is why orc/fell mitigations are only reduced by 4-6% when you are debuffed with something like sunder which has a 8k armour debuff (essentially negating a tactical freep's armour rating).

    It is also interesting to note that a creeps armour rating, whether the basic passive or any other source of armour such as class traits, DoF pots, and WL auras contribute to tactical and beleriand/westernesse/ancient Dorf damage types with 100% effectiveness (so 1500 to armour rating on a creep is 1500 to tactical mitigations).

    So much for U13 solving the whole 'passives' system.
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  23. #148
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    yeah I must say I preferred it when they gave the non-common mit number on the char sheet, and the common mit rating / percentage in the tooltip, rather than the other way around. I'm sure it's more logical this way (since all npcs do common or some form of tactical damage, while almost nobody goes to the moors or spar), but it still struck me as weird when they stopped listing non-common mitigation ratings altogether (until they came up with FW/OC).

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    As far as I know, these graphs from Rise of Isengard still apply: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...23#post5735823

    The constants in those formulae have been shuffled around a bit, but I think the broad strokes hold. (In other words: Yes, medium armour requires more mitigation rating for each percent of damage reduction than heavy armour. In addition to having lower armour ratings and lower mitigation caps. No, I don't know why this seemed like a good idea to whoever did that.)
    Reading the more recent posts in that thread, you'll notice this gem:
    Mitigations:
    Heavy 15834 -> 60% (max)
    Medium 17813 -> 50% (max)
    Light 11875 -> 40% (max)
    Fidgeting around with my toons on live, this seems to be currently accurate. So yes, while heavies get more armor per piece, they need less to reach their common mitigation cap. OCFW mitigations though seem harder to get; I don't know how much is needed to cap them.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    Reading the more recent posts in that thread, you'll notice this gem:


    Fidgeting around with my toons on live, this seems to be currently accurate. So yes, while heavies get more armor per piece, they need less to reach their common mitigation cap. OCFW mitigations though seem harder to get; I don't know how much is needed to cap them.
    Yes, that's in my opinion one change that has to be addressed on next update or patch. Because on previous updates somehow this was not a problem given amount of mitigations needed to cap them were almost the same for medium and for heavy, and vitality was almost everything that mattered. Now that only source of mitigation is armour rating and some armour or buffs, we will need to get that fixed. Come on, full buffed with both relics and tittles on weapons for mitigations, using scroll and shield tactics (all lvl 95 gear) it's hard even to reach 40% mitigations, with 11k rating.
    And btw, is there yet a legacy for +shield tactics tactical mitigation? Cause it's been ages since last time I saw it.

 

 
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