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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    that would only be a good idea if they fixed the in-and-out combat issue in big battles.

    it's also not indeffinitely, I think it's about 5second.

    allow both masteries and gambit removal skills to be used out of combat would be an alternative solution as big battles since first beta have had this issue and I'm starting to think it won't be fixed
    I really dislike the "new" out of combat feature as well, not only for big battles (top reported problem, from what I've seen so won't go into detail) because it messes up how I move from target to target. I understand it needs to change your play style, but it just feels sluggish and poorly designed and almost like they forgot or didn't test it at all in big battles, which seem to be the highlight of this patch. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of BB's and they aren't that bad with 2 or more people because it actually involves strategy and what not - they just need fixing up, as usual. :\ Back on topic.

    I don't think that allowing masteries out of combat would be the proper fix. That completely removes the reason for Battle Preparation. Though it is pretty useless currently, I wouldn't want to see it go because building gambits everywhere would just seem too easy. They could limit it to only BB's, though. In my opinion a better fix would just be to set a number of variables to keep you in combat for longer periods of time and possibly based on your BB trait tree. Just throwing things out there.
    - Falci, Elendilmir.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiggleMan View Post
    I don't think that allowing masteries out of combat would be the proper fix. That completely removes the reason for Battle Preparation. Though it is pretty useless currently, I wouldn't want to see it go because building gambits everywhere would just seem too easy. They could limit it to only BB's, though. In my opinion a better fix would just be to set a number of variables to keep you in combat for longer periods of time and possibly based on your BB trait tree. Just throwing things out there.
    battle prep would still be useful for the 3 on there own builders and to not put stuff on cooldown.

    and I have put before in beta 1 (or 2, not sure) about the going in and out of combat about needing to be kept in, got a stupid amount of comments agreeing, a dev saying "there working on it" basically, and we got this (gambits trail out a little after combat) in the later stages which seemed to be a fix to this. ofc this fix we have is half finished and just as broken.

    I too would want them to either just keep up in combat in BB's or something a long those lines. BB's are just so unplayable on warden due to this and it's sounding like another draicoch where they can't seem to fix it properly, so if there going to do plasters over these issue's they might as well do solutions that might work.

    it is slightly backwards solution and does cause a few other issues but nothing we can't overcome. we can't really overcome how unplayable the BB's are though.
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  3. #53
    being in combat through out EB's is complete necessary for more than just our gambits. There is also the issue that eb role is meaningless if you can change it anytime you are out of combat. So you switch to engineer lay traps,etc then switch to officer and give orders, and switch to vanguard and jump in the battle and all virtually at will. So it would solve 2 issues with one fix.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelleg View Post
    being in combat through out EB's is complete necessary for more than just our gambits. There is also the issue that eb role is meaningless if you can change it anytime you are out of combat. So you switch to engineer lay traps,etc then switch to officer and give orders, and switch to vanguard and jump in the battle and all virtually at will. So it would solve 2 issues with one fix.
    But, from what I have read, that is exactly what JW Barry and the EB team WANTS us to do, swap roles. Plus, if we are in there solo, we need to do all three.

  5. #55
    I played my warden for a couple of hours last night... In my opinion the most annoying
    Thing that needs to be fixed is the stun breaker we have... Why in the world does our
    Stun breaker take longer to activate then the actual stun.... I am at a loss for words as
    To who thought it was a good idea to give our stun breaker a 3 second animation...
    This definitely needs to be fixed ASAP. And if this behavior is intentional then Eru help us.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    But, from what I have read, that is exactly what JW Barry and the EB team WANTS us to do, swap roles. Plus, if we are in there solo, we need to do all three.
    Yeah, it needs to be possible for solo players to swap between roles, which means there needs to be some way to leave combat during the EBs. The current arrangement appears to be working for everybody... except Wardens. XD

    I think bohbashum's suggestions to make Masteries and Recovery function out-of-combat (at least during the brief period where gambits remain in the builder window) are probably the best way to fix the Warden issues without breaking things for everyone else.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Yeah, it needs to be possible for solo players to swap between roles, which means there needs to be some way to leave combat during the EBs.
    this sounds like bad design knowing how the big battle tree's work. there very well made out to have hybrids and being able to swap at pretty much any time does kinda remove the need of tree's if you can swap whenever.

    it would be perfect if when whoever shouts "we have a break" or whatever to have a short time to swap, but being able to swap so easily in waves seems so counter productive. it's like letting people re-trait in boss fights... kinda, whats the point in trait tree's then?

    The current arrangement appears to be working for everybody... except Wardens. XD
    RK's actually have it worse

    but everyone is suffering large amounts of damage in auto-attacks and having to re-click buttons on all classes because of going out-of-combat.

    from quickly asking on glff a last night before I checked on here, a lot of people agree'd, including captains who aren't happy with there heralds just standing still aimlessly. everyone is suffering from this so I don't think the current arrangement is good at all.
    [CENTER][URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/bubushum/media/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png.html][IMG]http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/bubushum/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

  8. #58

    Thumbs down sad with warden changes: (

    all classes have evolved but the warden right now is a step below all classes, today I had a captain spars with my bleeding does not hurt to the hurt , 26000 morale , now all classes are invincible and wardens insignificant , is the feeling that I have today I have seen a mini killing enemies with a single attack , all classes have improved a lot but my warden I see ####. if you guys are thinking about buying a warden , not a good option , do not anybody your money on this ####, if someone is willing to help me I would appreciate to send me a private email .
    now with the warden only thing you can do is watch as they kill in spar and helpless feeling bad , your best option is to play alone , do not spend money on a warden .
    Final valuation after the expansion and changes warden = ####
    I would like at this time to give me my money expansion and to give me money warden character
    sad to invest time in a good class , learn all gambits memory , enjoy, and in a few days not recognize your class and see how the other classes enjoy and you can not do anything , congrats for this great lotro ####.
    I did the pre-purchase in late September for these changes , my feeling now is that I'm playing lotro wasting my time.

  9. #59
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    I finallly pulled my 85 warden out, sucked it up, made a Red and Blue line Trait build, after spending days compiling which trait does what, and reset all my legendaries. I did both a Hytbold crafting speed steamroll of the mill and a wimpie T1 Siege of Gondamon just to check the build out. And.. while I see lots of problems, do you know what my biggest complaint in an hour and a half play is?

    DANG IT.. WHY DO I LOOSE MY RESOURCE TRACKING EVERY TIME I CHANGE TRAITLINES.!!!!!!!

    Ok. Had to get that off my chest. Back to testing how it works.

    OH, and I could not handle it.. I ended up sloshing out my 4295 TP for HD. At least they gave me enough to have some left when they redid my deeds.

  10. #60
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    Helm's Deep brought a terrible experience for wardens Devill_Egg. We warned you in the Beta Forums weeks before the release.

    Inside the Big-Battles things become even worst. We cannot build gambits inside Big-Battles. The resouce you implemented to keep builder there it's bugged, as many said in the beta forums, recouver cannot clean, need use battle preparation first. Also sometimes while dpsing one target we sudently go out of combat.

    Threat used to be effective, it's not effective anymore. We can tank, but it's a terrible experience, because we never know if we have enough threat or not when we have many mobs. Also we need more targets in our skills. Also you need change mobs to work with this new threat system. Mobs that have a shield and are imune to damage cannot be tanked by wardens since only DC affect they. So Emissary of war or the adds of Helegrod drake cannot be tanked by wardens. The new threat system ot's not more visible than old one, I would like an explanation why you had to change it. I think that to fix warden threat you will just make tank something very stupid, almost like: movs see a tank traited guy and run to him.

    The animation of our skill that shake off stuns take more time than the stun sometimes... another times, it break the stun then we have the animation of skill an after the normal animation of when we go out of stun...

    Also, I cannot say what it is, but masteries seem to be slowly. Not sure what's different, but I'm passing the time and building wrong sequences many times.

    Determination tree it's so bad that I feel the shame for you. Wast 5 points to get + 340 evade using war-cry it's the useless thing in this world for a warden. We have evade 25%, we dont need it. Give us something good.

    The new animations are horrible. The new animation of DC it's terrible. Moving without move legs? We deserve more than that. Remove some screams please, we dont need all that screams.

    The new tier of challenge of Lotro sounds like:

    landscape mobs - you kill with auto-atack - The quest that it's supost to be challenging, we can grab all adds and be afk that they cannot kill us.
    3-man - all classes can solo
    6-man - can complete with 2, some can solo
    12-man... can solo some skraid, dont need more than 6 to complete almost all skraids. There is no challenge to kill things in short time, since classes do stupid dps... took less than 2 min to drop the 2.560.000 of the Balrog in OD Fear wing.

    Also you launched the game without moors set and jewls 95, without images for new pots and crafting, wardens have the same image for 3 different skills (we said this in the first week of beta)...
    I would like to say good job, but was not a good job. Was something done in a hurry and released in a hurry. And Turbine should show more respect for customer, because she sold something not finished.

    Wardens til have a lot of questions that you just ignored in the beta forums, like: why guardians have a skill that increase threat and we dont? Since now all classes that tank can have good avoidance why we stil have 50% mitigation? DC miss some targets that are in the range of the skill, bug or WAI? Our critical defence... our skills to transfer and etc etc.

  11. #61
    after a good amount of testing...

    The into the fray attack duration legacy is not doing anything.

    ./bugged
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorronberbenero View Post
    all classes have evolved but the warden right now is a step below all classes, today I had a captain spars with my bleeding does not hurt to the hurt , 26000 morale , now all classes are invincible and wardens insignificant , is the feeling that I have today I have seen a mini killing enemies with a single attack , all classes have improved a lot but my warden I see ####. if you guys are thinking about buying a warden , not a good option , do not anybody your money on this ####, if someone is willing to help me I would appreciate to send me a private email .
    now with the warden only thing you can do is watch as they kill in spar and helpless feeling bad , your best option is to play alone , do not spend money on a warden .
    Final valuation after the expansion and changes warden = ####
    I would like at this time to give me my money expansion and to give me money warden character
    sad to invest time in a good class , learn all gambits memory , enjoy, and in a few days not recognize your class and see how the other classes enjoy and you can not do anything , congrats for this great lotro ####.
    I did the pre-purchase in late September for these changes , my feeling now is that I'm playing lotro wasting my time.
    I think you're being a little drastic here. The DPS side of things in red line and yellow are great. While they still need fixing, I have not lost a spar yet (out of about 10, hunters, captains, champions, burg) due to the double NS and general self heals and insane damage we can do considering people can get 4,000+ of a main stat at 95. That, combined with our innate tankiness because of 1 vitality per 5 morale, makes us still strong. Our bleed duration and everything did get nerfed, as well as the general buff durations but for now I'm not going to complain too much on that side of things.

    For me, learning gambits is all muscle memory so even if I take a break from the game it will only take me a brief amount of time before I remember my rotations and such. Maybe the Warden isn't the class for you, then.

    Hopefully they will improve things, as I'm still very disappointed but I have always found the Warden to be a difficult class in general terms, but once you practice it becomes extremely easy. While still retaining that challenging and rewarding feeling when it comes to your mindset and proactive play style, at least to me. That comes with skill level. Many people are unable to remember gambits and have a hard time with muscle memory or whatever method you use so it is more challenging to them.
    - Falci, Elendilmir.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Deviled_Egg View Post
    Yup! This was put in for the hotfix less for the extra heals and more for the fact that the extra heals were a symptom of some scary, potentially performance shredding server shenanigans.



    This is most certainly a bug and will be fixed for 12.1



    A lot of items here are things being considered for tweaking and change. Thanks for the list and to everyone who's reporting issues and concerns.


    Looking at this from a tank perspective:

    I think we need to invest in some might to effect our block and phys-mit,
    so that being the case it makes sense that we get some phys-mastery
    from it also. Otherwise anything we put into might will hurt our dps,
    which in turn hurts our threat.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    after a good amount of testing...

    The into the fray attack duration legacy is not doing anything.

    ./bugged
    I also feel it does nothing - I slotted it and maxed it, and can not tell a difference.
    I wonder if a 10% difference is just hardly noticeable. (It ought to be worth slotting)

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JLotro View Post
    I also feel it does nothing - I slotted it and maxed it, and can not tell a difference.
    I wonder if a 10% difference is just hardly noticeable. (It ought to be worth slotting)
    i can easily 'feel' the difference when traited red vs blue. I did testing of timed, mastery free, identical rotations with and without the maxed legacy and got 0 difference in total attacks, while the difference in total attacks between traiting red and blue is evident.
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    after a good amount of testing...

    The into the fray attack duration legacy is not doing anything.

    ./bugged
    THANK YOU my goodness I thought I was going crazy. I swear it felt just slightly slower (think I noted that somewhere around here). Thanks for doing the work and confirming it. Crazy how you can notice something is off from just 10% speed.
    [center]
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tY1055I.jpg[/IMG]
    [color=green][b]Gloarn[/b][/color] 80 Burglar [color=grey]|[/color] [color=green][b]Glorn[/b][/color] 75 Champion [color=grey]|[/color] [color=green][b]Gloirn[/b][/color] 75 Rune-keeper [color=grey]|[/color] [color=green][b]Glourn[/b][/color] 75 Captain
    [color=brown][b]Glarnakh[/b][/color] R7 Warleader [color=grey]|[/color] [color=brown][b]Glarno[/b][/color] R6 Reaver
    [/center]

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    i can easily 'feel' the difference when traited red vs blue. I did testing of timed, mastery free, identical rotations with and without the maxed legacy and got 0 difference in total attacks, while the difference in total attacks between traiting red and blue is evident.
    I am really wanting it to help in blue because gambits just feel so slow when tanking.
    Thanks for testing this.

  18. #68
    Can we have daze and knock down immunity on shield tactics? Now this gambit is somewhat useless only with stun immunity .
    Last edited by Krindel; Nov 28 2013 at 04:29 AM.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    that would only be a good idea if they fixed the in-and-out combat issue in big battles.

    it's also not indeffinitely, I think it's about 5second.

    allow both masteries and gambit removal skills to be used out of combat would be an alternative solution as big battles since first beta have had this issue and I'm starting to think it won't be fixed
    It feels like an awful lot longer than 5 seconds, seems forever and is a royal pain to manually cancel something you used what seems like ages ago and should have disappeared before next combat. 5 seconds is a long time when you consider that is the length of some buffs, or response times in crit chains or when adreniline is flowing. Don't know about the big battles thing as they hold zero interest and not even bothered to look at them.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wof View Post
    It feels like an awful lot longer than 5 seconds, seems forever and is a royal pain to manually cancel something you used what seems like ages ago and should have disappeared before next combat. 5 seconds is a long time when you consider that is the length of some buffs, or response times in crit chains or when adreniline is flowing. Don't know about the big battles thing as they hold zero interest and not even bothered to look at them.
    If you mean how long gambits are held in memory after combat ends, I haven't timed it but it's probably 8-9 seconds, judging by similar in combat / out of combat skills. Personally I think it's quite useful; nothing worse than killing one mob, turning to fight another only to find the gambit you were building having been dumped because you went out of combat for a second.

    However, if you do try big battles you'll see what people are referring to; the mobs spawn quickly and most die in seconds, so if you try to fight you are constantly being thrown into and out of combat; when I tried it recently, it was worse than I could have imagined. If the gambits hadn't been stored after combat, I don't think I could have completed more than a 2-length gambit except for side quest mobs. The issue itself of constantly being in and out of combat during BBs is what really needs to be resolved.


    An unrelated bug that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread: Ranged Boar's Rush is broken, does not get any damage from weapon (0.00% weapon damage + skill damage), so its damage is miserably low.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    If you mean how long gambits are held in memory after combat ends, I haven't timed it but it's probably 8-9 seconds, judging by similar in combat / out of combat skills. Personally I think it's quite useful; nothing worse than killing one mob, turning to fight another only to find the gambit you were building having been dumped because you went out of combat for a second.
    Pain though when finish melee and want ranged for next mob.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    after a good amount of testing...

    The into the fray attack duration legacy is not doing anything.

    ./bugged
    Just a thought, and I haven't logged in to test this yet, but could it be that the legacy is actually affecting the attack duration when you've got the recklessness buff on yourself?
    Ginwar - Warden | Ginrunk - Rune Keeper | Ginras - Hunter
    Officer of [URL="http://thorinsshield.gamerdna.com/"]Thorin's Shield[/URL], Snowbourn, UK.

  23. #73
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    The lvl 90 carving has exactly same stats as lvl 80 one (at least the spear carving). Unacceptable.
    [url=http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/index.php][img]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/5/4/9/0/0/5654900bzdgw.png[/img][/url]

  24. #74
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    Anyone else notice that the stuns in HD are longer than normal and the stun immunity from landscape mobs seems wears off before the stun, so you can be chain stunned even if you use your stun-removal? Happened to me taking on the warband guy by the new Imping.

  25. #75
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    2 things that i've noticed.

    1.battle memory resounding challenge does not make damage.
    2.i tried to destroy 3d age weapon to take the legacy with +light damage, but when i click decontruct i don't have the option of this legacy

    can someone test it also plz?

 

 
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