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  1. #1
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    Attention Middle Earth Lore Afficianados - Need Help IDing the origin of this image

    In Dunland Between Starkmoor and Trum Dreng lay 2 ruins. The larger ruin has a broken statue. On this statue of what appears to be a dwarf is a symbol. Does anyone recognize this?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/44515431@N06/10937621025/

  2. #2
    That symbol on the statue's forehead looks like a representation of the "white tree", which is a symbol of the kings of Gondor.
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  3. #3
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    The white tree of Gondor that decended directly from the seeds of that same tree carried from Valinor. The original tree was one of the 2 that iluminated Middle Earth on its childhood. Ungoliath killed them but the valars saved their decendance. They was used to create the sun & moon. The white tree of Gondor was a symbol of hope to remind the elves & men that the light will never extinguish & it will bloom again when the king returns.
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  4. #4
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    Yes, it looks a little like the White Tree, but not very close.

    My gut feeling is that some artist working on landscape scenery made it up.

    Those who've been in the game since SoA will remember the ominous portrait of the
    Witch-King that used to appear on one of the login screens. No face, of course, but
    a crown decorated with runes.

    We had the damndest time trying to figure out what the runes said.

    Eventually somebody realized that the artist had taken a string of runes and flipped it,
    so that one side was a mirror-image of the other side ... and didn't mean a thing.

    Edit: And come to think of it, it's unlikely that the effigy of a long-ago famous Dwarf-lord
    would be wearing the sigil of the White Tree. On the Doors of Durin we see, not the
    White Tree of Numenor, but the Tree of the High Elves (repeated twice), as well as
    the emblems of Durin, and a crown with seven stars representing the noble houses
    of Men. But those doors were a joint effort of three races, symbolizing the trade
    and friendship of those who would pass through the doors after saying "Friend."
    Last edited by djheydt; Nov 19 2013 at 11:07 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airamena View Post
    In Dunland Between Starkmoor and Trum Dreng lay 2 ruins. The larger ruin has a broken statue. On this statue of what appears to be a dwarf is a symbol. Does anyone recognize this?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/44515431@N06/10937621025/
    Just looking at the head, I thought it was a screencap from Amon Hen, in Eastemnet: identical heads can be found there, too, decorated with the very same stylized tree.
    So congratulations! You stumbled upon a very old Gondorian outpost or marker!

    Have to go check this out, btw. Somehow, I seem to have missed this location. Or at least have no recollection of it, atm.

    djheydt: Something like that Witch-king's crown-helmet is still present in the game... remember Laugfût's collar?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Yes, it looks a little like the White Tree, but not very close ...
    Edit: And come to think of it, it's unlikely that the effigy of a long-ago famous Dwarf-lord would be wearing the sigil of the White Tree. On the Doors of Durin we see, not the White Tree of Numenor, but the Tree of the High Elves (repeated twice), as well as the emblems of Durin, and a crown with seven stars representing the noble houses of Men. But those doors were a joint effort of three races, symbolizing the trade and friendship of those who would pass through the doors after saying "Friend."
    The tree of Gondor was descendant of the tree of Numenor, that was descendant of the tree of the high elves, that was descendant of the tree of Valinor. It was several, maybe hundreds or thousands of generations of living trees, not 1 tree & they all mean the same. With thousands of years appart & several cultures using it, the symbol maybe written slighly different but is always the same white tree.
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  7. #7
    I'm not sure that statue piece is meant to be a Dwarf. I think that bit that looks like it might be a "beard" is actually just where the statue broke at an angle at the "neck" of the statue of a man.

    I could be wrong, but that's what I would assume if that is supposed to be the white tree of Gondor.

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  8. #8
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    This is a close up of the same symbol she saw at the ruins at Starkmoor, is literally all over the place:
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  9. #9
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    Couldn't let it go...



    One of the heads in the ruins of Amon Hen, in Eastwall, in Eastemnet.


    The heads 'guarding' Amon Lhaw.

    No Dwarves, there. Just Men, with Mannish proportions.

    And that left pic of a tree in Yamy's post?
    It is truly everywhere. Not sure when it makes its first appearance, but betting on Enedwaith. Amon Mîn, Harndirion and Ost Dunhoth have it, at least, in abundance.
    As does Garth Lotheg, in the session play instance "At the Stone of Erech."
    And Ost Celebrant in the Great River.
    And Minas Rant in Eastemnet, I'd bet.

    If we don't limit it to the same graphic, then the tree symbol really gets around. Look at the paved roads in Evendim and Enedwaith. Go to the Oldstone Ruins in Bree. And even though in older places the tree doesn't tend to be crowned with seven stars, a seven-pointed star seems to be always somewhere very nearby.

    In fact.... I think the star gets around more.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daeross View Post
    ... If we don't limit it to the same graphic, then the tree symbol really gets around. Look at the paved roads in Evendim and Enedwaith. Go to the Oldstone Ruins in Bree. And even though in older places the tree doesn't tend to be crowned with seven stars, a seven-pointed star seems to be always somewhere very nearby. ...
    Here it is, a tree crowned with 7 stars just dessigned on a different manner:
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/The_Ancient_Crest
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    Here it is, a tree crowned with 7 stars just dessigned on a different manner:
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/The_Ancient_Crest
    Obviously, it's been way too long since I've last visited Bree.... Only remembered the tree there, not the stars nor the sceptre. Though if one wanted to nitpick, seven stars aren't above that tree or within its branches; one's fallen down and lies by its roots.

    But yeah... the point remains: no matter where you look, the Tree and the Star (standing for the Elendilmir?) pervade the (ruined) structures descendants of Númenórë built. Even in the Shire.
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  12. #12
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    It makes me wonder if there is any (consistent) variation between the tree motif in former Cardolan, Arthedain and Rhudar territories or if the different depictions are slapped everywhere.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghashgul View Post
    It makes me wonder if there is any (consistent) variation between the tree motif in former Cardolan, Arthedain and Rhudar territories or if the different depictions are slapped everywhere.
    There's consistent variation with the symbols.
    Evendim has a 'circled tree', whereas from Enedwaith onward the image of a star-crowned tree graphic (ref. Yamy's post above) appears in abundance. The Great Road in Enedwaith and Dunland also has consistently a 'split' variant of the tree.
    The extremely stylized tree only seems to appear upon the helmet-crowns of the statues one of which sparked this thread; first of those that we run into is at the Pool of the King, outside Lhanuch.

    Cardolan, Arthedain and Rhudaur regions are.... trickier, I think. There's something one might call "tree emblems" there, but... they only appear in groups, if I remember right. Check out Ost Guruth, Garth Agarwen, or practically any of the ruins in Trollshaws. You can find there an emblem that looks like a group of spruces.

    However, the seven-pointed star is far more common there, as is the sceptre.

    I stated that the symbols vary consistently; what doesn't is the architecture. The "basic building blocks" are the same throughout the regions, for the cultures: Arnorian architecture is Arnorian, Gondorian architecture is Gondorian. They have some similarities with each other, but not with Dwarven or Elven constructs.

    That's one big reason why I think that when (not if) we reach Gondor, Minas Tirith... Osgiliath and Minas Morgul... we'll feel it's familiar.
    Because we've seen the Gondorian stone structures ever since Enedwaith.

    Apologies for the wall o' text...
    Last edited by Daeross; Nov 20 2013 at 03:38 AM. Reason: It's Minas Morgul, these days, not Minas Ithil... *sigh*
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daeross View Post
    Just looking at the head, I thought it was a screencap from Amon Hen, in Eastemnet: identical heads can be found there, too, decorated with the very same stylized tree.
    So congratulations! You stumbled upon a very old Gondorian outpost or marker!

    Have to go check this out, btw. Somehow, I seem to have missed this location. Or at least have no recollection of it, atm.

    djheydt: Something like that Witch-king's crown-helmet is still present in the game... remember Laugfût's collar?
    There is a very good reason that you missed this location - its because it's not actually an area which you can enter without a bit of an exploit :P The only part of this ruin that most will have seen is the front gate, which is in the narrow gully between Trum Dreng and Pren Gwydh, so you are excused for not recognising the location
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