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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4

    Guardian Two handing

    Howdy yall, just coming to this as me and a buddy recently got the steely dawn starter pack and figure what the hell ill give it a shot, seems fun enough from the little i've tried over the years. Well he is pretty set on trying out Captain so he is good, i am more focused on my planned path as it is easily "sub optimal" but im wondering if it is a lost cause or close enough for government work ;-). I am a fairly well versed MMO vet having played most of the bigger named MMO's out there enough to know what i like, but i am still what you would call a "casual" in the sense that i could really care less about min / max builds, being top dog in end game raids, etc. and have a preference for running what i find cool as long as it isnt a complete waste of time.

    Well with that introduction out of the way i plan on playing a Human guardian focusing on the two handed club as i may be one of the few folks who thinks clubs are cool weapons especially when so few games have them as an option in comparison to the more common maces / hammers, and i personally always go two handed because i just could never stand sword and board style. Just curious if while not being the most optimal way to play my class it will still be viable enough to remain fun and not spend more time doing corpse runs than i would actually playing the game XD as for race while i realize Hobbits gain a damage bonus to my weapon of choice, well... i could never play one of the buggers. Never liked them and im not even sure why :-p

    Many thanks to any vets who could chime in on their opinion, and i hope my post was coherent enough that it is understandable as its late and i wanted to get this off before bed

  2. #2
    Hi

    Hi when Helms deep hits weapons will show what % slow, parry attack duration, armour etc reduction they will have

    2 hander Clubs will have a chance to apply 40% attack duration on them. (I do not know chance % to apply the effect)
    1 Hander clubs will have a chance to apply 40% attack duration of them

    Also the guardian will be a viable 2 hander class with Red line and yellow line.

    I would also suggest that the race traits of the dwarfs are better than man for guardian (even if you going to play it solo/ off tank style in red or yellow line).
    The cool downs of the race skills have been reduced to 30mins. The endurance of stone skill will save you more than the 3000 moral skill the man race will give you.
    also the dwarfs have higher block rating and the new guardian yellow line will make you block with 2 hander weapons.

    Also to point out that people will tell you than some bosses are not effected by slows this true but attack duration ( unless they changed or it was a bug) will still be applied to a creature with slow immune such as guardian stagger with 2 separate component de buff slow/ attack duration.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    1,105
    I still think you'd be better off with a champion, or even a captain, if the 2-hander thing is that important to you.

    Even with the changes, People will still not be interested in taking a guardian to a group as "dps", even less so if what you say about not being a min-maxer is true. A guardian is, after all, first and foremost a tank. And it sounds like that's not for you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    @DorinOlrite

    cool to know, and good point about dwarves, i could come around to playing one defintiely. will have to make both and see which appearance i prefer, thanks for the advice!


    @brya

    thanks for your input as well! unfortunately from what i have seen, champion does not get to use two handed clubs, which i find odd but what're ya gonna do right? And as i mentioned my buddy is rolling a captain so i don't wanna step on his toes, plus the whole support role i have never been able to get behind. I also really have no problem tanking and done it before, i just always have played the more hybrid tank / dps classes, (arms warrior in WoW (least it was when i last played it), warrior in ff11, Berserker in eq 2 etc,)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,544
    Well, for landscape content it doesn't really matter much what class or weapon you use. For instances it's hard to say at this time with the pending class revamp of HD coming out today wether guards will be a viable dps class or can tank properly using a 2h weapon (beta feedback is a bad indicator as there will be a number of balancing updates in the coming weeks for sure).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    1,383
    Zanje, if you really want a Guardian using 2handed clubs, try a Hobbit. They can take a massive amount of damage and still fight off groups of overlevel mobs. Also Hobbits get the racial 2% bonus to club damage. I used to play a Humand Guardian with 2handed sword, but he kept being overwhelmed, especially when hit with poison and diseases. Now I play a Hobbit Guardian with 2 handed clubs and receives the racial mitigations and resistances that cut back disease and poison damage a lot and he's unstoppable!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brya View Post
    I still think you'd be better off with a champion, or even a captain, if the 2-hander thing is that important to you.

    Even with the changes, People will still not be interested in taking a guardian to a group as "dps", even less so if what you say about not being a min-maxer is true. A guardian is, after all, first and foremost a tank. And it sounds like that's not for you.
    It's impossible to say what people will or will not use. In B6 the guard dps was higher then champ dps. Untill we see the damage on live, making such assumptions is pointless.

  8. #8
    Hi

    I will update this list when I am at home I gathered this info from beta when I tested it.

    Racial traits for damage type % have changed as well ( Bullroarer 6) Still subject to change or be updated.

    Dwarves 5% Axe damage ( 2 & 1 hander)
    Hobbits 5% Club ( 2 & 1 hander)
    Elves Bow 5% ( I think also 1 hander swords 5%)
    Men 5% swords ( 2 & 1 hander).


    halberd % XX missing text XX captain only (used to increase threat with each strike)
    Mace % chance to slow targets movement speed ( if you look on old source's mace used to 3sec stun)
    Hammer % chance to targets evade rating
    Axe % chance to reduce targets armour
    Swords % chance to parry (self) (2% parry chance) (used to be crit chance)
    Dagger % chance for auto attack to crit hit.
    Clubs % chance for targets attack duration reduced (40%)
    Spear % chance for bleeds. (Wardens trait line makes the bleed very strong) To point out depending on the target i.e boss or certain landscape mobs they can have a buff on them when attack the heal them selves. A bleed damage item can cause problems in the wrong instance e.g DN, BG maze how ever these are old raids and instances.

    Also years ago all weapons used to have different attack speeds and dps. So you might of wondered why there are certain weapons that seemed better than others.
    Originally - Axe was dps was high attack speed was the slowest.
    Originally -Dagger dps was lowest but the fastest attack speed.

    I just would not set your play style too much in stone since I know who much lotro has changed over the years and will still change.

  9. #9
    I have a level 77 Human Guardian. I fight on level mobs with a two-handed hammer (because that's what I envision my character using) and extremely rarely find myself in over my head. While I carry a legendary sword, it is purely for RAID content when groups will want you optimized. For landscape, play what you want.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    228
    Quote Originally Posted by Brya View Post
    I still think you'd be better off with a champion, or even a captain, if the 2-hander thing is that important to you.

    Even with the changes, People will still not be interested in taking a guardian to a group as "dps", even less so if what you say about not being a min-maxer is true. A guardian is, after all, first and foremost a tank. And it sounds like that's not for you.
    wrong....with the same armour and jewells my guardian out-dpsed my champion in all situations apart from 1.....when theres lots of mobs (10+ like shcool/Lib) and my champ could aoe more, and my guardian wasn't far behind.

    Guardian bleed damage is easy to get to 1k ish per tic (lvl 10 bleed) and guardians heal themselves more (which will eventually be nerfed)

    Ill always chose a guardian with 25k+ morale and the same amount of might as any champion, they have more survivability, have better bleeds and do more dps as things were on the last beta.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    so cool for grouping with my buddy should be all right then? just if i wanted to do more of the higher level raids and what nots is when id want to switch to sword and board and full tank mode? i dont mind that, long as at least 90% of the time or so i can club fools im fine with that. Appreciate the input folks i really do.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The Sunset Grill
    Posts
    306
    Guardian 2-handed is definitely alot of fun. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a little DPS with your tankiness IMO. Plus it helps when you're soloing. And you can always go sword and board if you need to tank.

    Go for it, OP. Don't let people dissuade you just because your playstyle doesn't fit into their "norm".

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    313
    Clubs?!? Clubs are for cave trolls! Real guards roll with 2hdr axes because they are deadly sharp and look boss. j/k.

    Roll with whatever weapon that makes you happy and kill mobs dead. And pick whatever race you want. I chose human because I like the human heal as an extra oh -!@#$! button, and +5% incoming heal bonus when I was still raid tanking was nice. Tanked with sword, but rolled around with 2hdr axe for funsies. My guard had a 2hdr club once...it looked like she was braining things with ginormous louisville slugger...haha.

    Guardian 2hdr is definitely viable on landscape pve. Barring you and your friend pulling the entire map, you should be able to survive and drop fools with ease. Just don't expect the big fat numbers you might be used to seeing with a WoW arms warrior. With the Helm's Deep revamp in a couple days, our bleeds are going to get fugly (dps red tree) and in the yellow trait tree we're getting the option to tank with a 2hdr. Interesting prospect, but whether groups will actually let you do that is something else entirely. Player base will likely expect you to tank with shield and 1hdr if you're getting into high end content. With HD, you'll get two talent build slots so you could use one to keep a tanking build (if you want) and the other to keep a face smash build. Keep some tank pieces around in case you think you will need to put on a tank suit at some point. Otherwise, rock your dps pieces and go forth and smash face. Captain's a good complement to Guards...have fun

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by catofnine View Post
    My guard had a 2hdr club once...it looked like she was braining things with ginormous louisville slugger...haha.
    Exactly why i like em so seems fine to me ;-)

    but yeah good to know it seems definitely ill be "good enough" thanks alot friend!

  15. #15
    I am quite happy with my dwarf guardian and I've used both a 2h and sword and board techniques. If the question is whether or not a 2h club is a viable competitive weapon, the answer is yes. In my opinion the guardian has more uses for the two handed stuff than the champion does, and he has more natural survivability than the champion by far. The real question is how you want to play your guardian. If you want to be high dps then go with the overpower stance setup. If you're hoping for more of a "guardian" feel, then just turn overpower off and have fun with that. Either way you can definitely use a 2h weapon and be perfectly happy throughout your game experience. The only real downside is that the guardian has access to the heavy shields and he can make really good use of them.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    3,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_The_Bear View Post
    I am quite happy with my dwarf guardian and I've used both a 2h and sword and board techniques. If the question is whether or not a 2h club is a viable competitive weapon, the answer is yes. In my opinion the guardian has more uses for the two handed stuff than the champion does, and he has more natural survivability than the champion by far. The real question is how you want to play your guardian. If you want to be high dps then go with the overpower stance setup. If you're hoping for more of a "guardian" feel, then just turn overpower off and have fun with that. Either way you can definitely use a 2h weapon and be perfectly happy throughout your game experience. The only real downside is that the guardian has access to the heavy shields and he can make really good use of them.
    This changes a bit with HD and the new traits. I played my Guardian two handed in beta traited mostly in the red line with 6 or 8 points in a couple of traits from yellow and blue. Pretty much travelled anywhere I wanted and left mob corpses in my wake when soloing. Red line is automatic Overpower now. I feel it is much more DPS than it used to be. The 5% racial bonus for a specific weapon type is nice, but I think for solo play that will make little difference. Maybe 1 in 10 combats will end one hit sooner with that bonus.
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
    Arkenstone (ex-Elendilmir) - The Osgiliath Guard
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