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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    England
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    18

    Monster Play is dwindling!

    As a long standing member of the Creep community, i feel it' only right to say that doing the same 49 quests over and over has become rather dull.

    the only contact we get (apart from the two other creeps online) is the odd freep running around...

    We need something different. - let us into helms deep, let us into another area of the huge map you have built for free peoples.

    People have been leaving PVP area for a while because of how unbalanced things are - eg. take three Rank3 Freeps and 9 Rank5 Creeps... the freeps will win.

    we can't compete.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    13,647
    Quote Originally Posted by Misan2302 View Post
    As a long standing member of the Creep community, i feel it' only right to say that doing the same 49 quests over and over has become rather dull.

    the only contact we get (apart from the two other creeps online) is the odd freep running around...

    We need something different. - let us into helms deep, let us into another area of the huge map you have built for free peoples.
    If you did that you would get those who don't PvMP, don't want PvMP anywhere near them, leaving the game in much larger droves
    than the current trickle of departing creeps.

    From its first game, Asheron's Call (opened in 1998 and still running), Turbine has had a policy of making PvP consensual, restricted by
    area and/or other conditions. In AC, to become a "red dot" you had to do a moderately-difficult quest. You could then fight other "red
    dots" but nobody else. There was one server, called Darktide, where every player character was automatically a "red dot." That server
    had a population about a tenth the size of any of the other worlds.

    In AC2, there were several (small) areas for faction-vs.-faction combat, and one (even smaller) area for free-for-all combat. There was
    one very small area where a skinny triangle of FvF-permitted area stuck into the pathway between two important portals, and some
    players would hang out there, hoping to gank non-PvPers as they traveled. There was a huge outcry, and Turbine moved the
    boundaries of the FvF area so that the path between portals was safe.

    For a long time during LotRO development, Turbine stated that there would be no PvP in the game at all. About six months before
    release, PvMP was announced and the complaints on the forums were tremendous. They went ahead with it anyway, but in the
    form we now have: PvMP happens in one isolated part of the map and you can't wander into it by accident, you have to choose to
    go there. Consensual PvP means not many PvPers; those who enjoy ganking the newbies never get the opportunity to do so.

    It's a vicious circle, in a way. Because the PvMP population is small, not much development is spent on it, causing the PvMP population
    to dwindle further. I don't know how to make it better for you. Perhaps you'll enjoy Ultimate Crisis when it comes out?
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Disneyland
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    If you did that you would get those who don't PvMP, don't want PvMP anywhere near them, leaving the game in much larger droves
    than the current trickle of departing creeps.

    From its first game, Asheron's Call (opened in 1998 and still running), Turbine has had a policy of making PvP consensual, restricted by
    area and/or other conditions. In AC, to become a "red dot" you had to do a moderately-difficult quest. You could then fight other "red
    dots" but nobody else. There was one server, called Darktide, where every player character was automatically a "red dot." That server
    had a population about a tenth the size of any of the other worlds.

    In AC2, there were several (small) areas for faction-vs.-faction combat, and one (even smaller) area for free-for-all combat. There was
    one very small area where a skinny triangle of FvF-permitted area stuck into the pathway between two important portals, and some
    players would hang out there, hoping to gank non-PvPers as they traveled. There was a huge outcry, and Turbine moved the
    boundaries of the FvF area so that the path between portals was safe.

    For a long time during LotRO development, Turbine stated that there would be no PvP in the game at all. About six months before
    release, PvMP was announced and the complaints on the forums were tremendous. They went ahead with it anyway, but in the
    form we now have: PvMP happens in one isolated part of the map and you can't wander into it by accident, you have to choose to
    go there. Consensual PvP means not many PvPers; those who enjoy ganking the newbies never get the opportunity to do so.

    It's a vicious circle, in a way. Because the PvMP population is small, not much development is spent on it, causing the PvMP population
    to dwindle further. I don't know how to make it better for you. Perhaps you'll enjoy Ultimate Crisis when it comes out?


    ---------
    Seriously OP, everyone knows pvp in this game is bad and there really isn't any hope for it getting better or getting more attention in the future. My old server was so awful that almost my whole tribe transferred to a bigger one for one last try at getting fun out of pvp in this game. The trick is to just...try to have fun...its hard but...ya know. Maybe you can try another server or try to find an active tribe to have a laugh with. But "do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands"!
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#cc0099]Jinxycat [/COLOR][/B][B]|[COLOR=#cc0099] Spinnerette
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B]Inept Officer [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=1][B]|[/B][/SIZE][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B] Creatures of the Fiery Kind[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
    [/CENTER]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Topeka, KS
    Posts
    1,072
    Since the dawn of PvMP there have been a few big things added - The Defiler class, Rangers and Trolls, the Delving of Fror along with full PvMP armor sets and creep skins.
    So PvMP hasn't been entirely ignored over the years.
    It's been a long time though since any of those things, and I would love to see another big PvMP update. I haven't given up hope yet like everyone else.. but I haven't played PvMP regularly for years either due to the lack of changes.
    Freeps: Venusia (Guardian), Silya (RK), Dwayr (Champion), Nissys (Captain), Filodon (Burgler), Tyveil (Lore-master)
    Creeps: Venusiel (R7 Weaver), Tyveilakh (R5 Warleader)
    [url="http://kingsbeyondthewall.com/"]Kings Beyond the Wall[/url]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    6,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Misan2302 View Post
    As a long standing member of the Creep community, i feel it' only right to say that doing the same 49 quests over and over has become rather dull.

    the only contact we get (apart from the two other creeps online) is the odd freep running around...

    We need something different. - let us into helms deep, let us into another area of the huge map you have built for free peoples.

    People have been leaving PVP area for a while because of how unbalanced things are - eg. take three Rank3 Freeps and 9 Rank5 Creeps... the freeps will win.

    we can't compete.
    The solution isn't asking to get into a PvE zone, its simply never going to happen. The answer is a little more complex then some might like to admit. The moors has to be monetized uniquely to make it worth development dollars. As it is freeps have to pay monthly to get in, creeps have to pay in TP. The problem here is, the discussion on making the moors a viable pvp entity within the mmo world should have happened years ago. So what you have now is a large swath of the pvp player base that has been there for years, whos going to pay more now ? Im sure as hell not, so how do we get turbine to invest more money into the zone? We cant dismiss the notion that a smaller percent of the base consumes the pvp offering, its a legit argument from the PvE/turbine crowd who want the cash spent on the majority of the players. Your last example of the freeps and creeps is really all the illustration you need, the freeps are winning and will have the edge because, to be blunt, they are paying more to be there. Now there are primary creep players who are VIP, but the distinction still remains, freeps have to pay to play no amount of TP buys a freep access to the moors. Approach the issue from the financial aspect and how to garner more players and I bet turbine will listen. Few here endeavor to do so.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    225

    For Thorgrum: an endeavour (Australian spelling) to approach the issue from a financial aspect:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Approach the issue from the financial aspect and how to garner more players and I bet turbine will listen. Few here endeavor to do so.
    Can't the approach be a recognition that PvP provides the most challenging end-game content for those freeps wedded to the Middle-Earth AND in need of a challenge?

    Any business model obviously wants to maximise income. Evidently of late Turbine have lent towards producing less-challenging content which I can only assume is done in order to entice new players who may be frightened off by the length of the journey to level cap? But then what happens at level cap? It's also part of the corporate world's targeting of children (who aren't up for adult complexity), but that's another discussion. Not everybody wants to endlessly grind the same daily content over and over and that's where PvP can pay back on investment.

    Marketing research understands that the retention of existing customers (players) is vitally important because it typically costs much more to lure new players than it does to retain existing players - and happy existing players do free marketing for you - which is a significant business cost saving. And savings, particularly given the expense of marketing, equal cost reductions, which equates to higher income after costs.

    I'm in small business (we design, manufacture and sell our own product) and I consider a happy existing customer as pure gold to my business! They make MUCH more direct impact in terms of representing the value of my product than any other (usually very expensive) marketing approach can ever guarantee. I just cannot understand that allowing end-game players to leave through lack of challenge is good business for Turbine. I appreciate that creating fresh end-game raid content is expensive - so let the creeps provide it: fresh challenging fights every day, freely provided by your dedicated PvP playerbase!

    This angle surely provides a legitimate argument for some investment by Turbine in PvP? This doesn't need to disenfranchise or threaten the Heydt's, (or the player base they represent), as it needn't represent proportionately vast expenditure, nor PvP in PvE areas. The PvP community have surely shown that we don't need much to keep us in game. But from the dwindling numbers of recent times we evidently do need more than we have received of late.

    Given the expected PvP imbalance coming today with the launch of HD I've got my fingers crossed that PvP survives the launch for long enough for Turbine to come up with something.

    At least give us back some meaningful deeds, and perhaps moderate the OP buffs?

    Nothing that'll upset the Heydt's, et al; but more than just some skins. Nor shop items, because this is end-game and your value comes from having and retaining a dedicated player base, (who have already paid plenty over the journey), not from bleeding their wallets dry.

    Obviously we'd all LOVE a new area but we can't share it with the PvE crew (fair enough, no argument) and the cost of creating a new area is apparently prohibitive. But PvP does have a role in the long-term retention of customers and this makes sense in business marketing terms.

    tl/dr: PvP provides end-game content that can retain players looking for a challenge. Player retention makes sense in business marketing terms and this justifies some investment in PvP.
    Vulfen cpt 100

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    My old server was so awful that almost my whole tribe transferred to a bigger one for one last try at getting fun out of pvp in this game. T[/I]"!
    Correction, you and your tribe thought that, because you never got your way on the server. Our server (evernight) has a great community and we have decent action which goes up and down depending on the day. There is no general trick, you just got to have fun and clearly your tribe thought the only way was leaving, which is sad but not the end. So stop bashing our server for something you called over yourself.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Disneyland
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFrost View Post
    Correction, you and your tribe thought that, because you never got your way on the server. Our server (evernight) has a great community and we have decent action which goes up and down depending on the day. There is no general trick, you just got to have fun and clearly your tribe thought the only way was leaving, which is sad but not the end. So stop bashing our server for something you called over yourself.
    Good grief, stop stalking me around the forums.

    Yes, the gy/grams camping was absolutely fantastic action. As was the 8973438 freeps you brought out every day against about 5 creeps. Not to mention I entirely miss the amusement of seeing you pve rage flip everything when you died a single time. Get over it, Evelien.

    And yes, Evernight did have a great community and I left a lot of good friends behind. Seriously though, stop taking personal offense and stop harassing me around the forums. I am entitled to reply to posts and give my opinion.
    Last edited by nubcat; Nov 20 2013 at 05:38 AM.
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#cc0099]Jinxycat [/COLOR][/B][B]|[COLOR=#cc0099] Spinnerette
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B]Inept Officer [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=1][B]|[/B][/SIZE][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B] Creatures of the Fiery Kind[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Finland
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    Totally off topic!
    Evelien, making a new forum account because your own got banned, is againt the forum rules, reporting once again.

    Second, you just can't let us be? You single handedly destroyed evernights action, with your mindless pve zergs, if you can't solo and take a death, stop playing. And for the hundreth time, get over us.

    P.s. Jinxy has a boyfriend, i recomend you try hitting on Dil instead.


    The original Valdez

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Faildget View Post
    Totally off topic!
    Evelien, making a new forum account because your own got banned, is againt the forum rules, reporting once again.

    Second, you just can't let us be? You single handedly destroyed evernights action, with your mindless pve zergs, if you can't solo and take a death, stop playing. And for the hundreth time, get over us.

    P.s. Jinxy has a boyfriend, i recomend you try hitting on Dil instead.
    Everyone would need a new acount if people like you keep reporting posts for no reason, mods arn't doing much of a job checking it out. if we would be as lame as you and report your posts too you would be banned to in no time. but tbh i'm not as low.

    And this is not about you our your fail tribe, we don't miss you and the server is better off without you. But you guys keep bashing us for some reason, why is that. because you need the attention.

    But this isn't about me or our server, and that is the main issue, keep it on topic and leave our server and our people out of it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Disneyland
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    509
    Quote Originally Posted by FireFrost View Post
    But you guys keep bashing us for some reason, why is that. because you need the attention.

    But this isn't about me or our server, and that is the main issue, keep it on topic and leave our server and our people out of it.
    I'm allowed to give my opinion so please stop telling me that I shouldn't. I (and many others, including freeps) disliked the action on Evernight and transferred, but I now wish i'd got your permission before doing so. If ever I reply to a thread on these forums again i'll make sure to run it past you first.
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#cc0099]Jinxycat [/COLOR][/B][B]|[COLOR=#cc0099] Spinnerette
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B]Inept Officer [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=1][B]|[/B][/SIZE][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B] Creatures of the Fiery Kind[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
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  12. #12
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    Sep 2013
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    I'm allowed to give my opinion so please stop telling me that I shouldn't. I (and many others, including freeps) disliked the action on Evernight and transferred, but I now wish i'd got your permission before doing so. If ever I reply to a thread on these forums again i'll make sure to run it past you first.
    Stick to your opinion then and stop making it look like half the world did it, there always 2 side of a coin and your tribe make it look like evernight is only bad wich it isn't. You left, fine just don't put the blame on our community.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFrost View Post
    Stick to your opinion then and stop making it look like half the world did it, there always 2 side of a coin and your tribe make it look like evernight is only bad wich it isn't. You left, fine just don't put the blame on our community.
    At no point did I do so. I gave my opinion, which is that Evernight action was awful, and left it there. Its you that has made a big deal out of it. You give your opinion on our tribe all the time, so why is my opinion of action on Evernight not allowed? I have stuck to my opinion, yet you go off on one because of it. Get it straight, stop raging and calm down.
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#cc0099]Jinxycat [/COLOR][/B][B]|[COLOR=#cc0099] Spinnerette
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B]Inept Officer [/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=1][B]|[/B][/SIZE][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=1][B] Creatures of the Fiery Kind[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    18
    I would agree with the view that you should try to keep all your customers happy. I may suggest that PvPers are one of the most vocal groups and the most effective approach to dealing with them is to simply dedicate one dev to take care of PvP. That individual can develop a strategy and tap into resources from the rest of the team when possible/necessary. A new area could be developed and said individual would keep an eye on balance in the PvP zone and respond to any concerns. How much does one Dev cost - US$100,000? The return on investment in my view would be huge. The retention of PVP players would have been quite significant and the benefits for Turbine would be significant. Less moaning and groaning. In this context, comments made by Sapience and others seem to my view, rather disappointing. I know you are just the messenger, but with modest investment the pvp community would be retained and even grow substantially. It is just business.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FireFrost View Post
    Stick to your opinion then and stop making it look like half the world did it, there always 2 side of a coin and your tribe make it look like evernight is only bad wich it isn't. You left, fine just don't put the blame on our community.
    Everlame,Everzerg,freeps calling in for more everytime there is actually a decent fight, op's flipping to blue even thought freeps outnumber creeps 2/1. The only reason there is still "some" life left in evernight is because of a handful of creeps like Thingo, war,boon ( not going to mention all) and some freeps that turned creep to see if there could be something done to save the server. But for every positive action that is taken you and your band of pve zerg bunnies break down three. Only reason you and several of your switchers have a problem with Val and his tribe was because the actually kicked your zerg raids behind more than once. They wouldn't allow you to have a blue map and have your brainless little grams camp. Evernight is definitely not better of without them. But you go on , rave about how wonderful the server is and maybe just maybe someone will believe you someday. Just like they would believe you when you say you don't run away when your raid gets killed.

    I stopped playing not because the balance is bad or the map has become ohhhh so boring. Nope I stopped because of idiots like you ruining any chance of decent fights because of your massive over rated egos.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Torhowl View Post
    Everlame,Everzerg,freeps calling in for more everytime there is actually a decent fight, op's flipping to blue even thought freeps outnumber creeps 2/1. The only reason there is still "some" life left in evernight is because of a handful of creeps like Thingo, war,boon ( not going to mention all) and some freeps that turned creep to see if there could be something done to save the server. But for every positive action that is taken you and your band of pve zerg bunnies break down three. Only reason you and several of your switchers have a problem with Val and his tribe was because the actually kicked your zerg raids behind more than once. They wouldn't allow you to have a blue map and have your brainless little grams camp. Evernight is definitely not better of without them. But you go on , rave about how wonderful the server is and maybe just maybe someone will believe you someday. Just like they would believe you when you say you don't run away when your raid gets killed.
    Expecting the other side, whatever side that may be, to meet you half way is an exercise in futility.
    If you want fair sides go play a game where the numbers are dictated by the game (Infinite Crisis, or similar).

    I'm not saying that to be mean.
    Some games out there are designed to ensure even sides whereas others, like LOTRO, are designed to allow zergs.
    In short, I don't think other people are playing the game wrong - I think you're expecting the wrong thing from the game.

    Good luck wherever you end up.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    894
    Hah! Brandywine's not the only server that injects it's server based conflicts into general PVP threads!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
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    3,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Actually the Expansion did dictate the timing of the meeting. It couldn't be done after the release as we need a window to allow for hot fixes or other issues, and then we are looking at Thanksgiving and staff spending time with their families. December would have been tricky for a number of reasons, but again the Holidays would have seriously restricted our options.

    So Halloween was it. It got them in right as we put up a new build in beta, before the team had to wade through a new round of feedback, and ahead of the final push of bug fixes and tweaks in the two weeks before launch.

    So quick info, that I can actually share focuses a lot on the council itself (which was a large part of the intention of the meeting).

    • Moved the Council term to coincide with LOTRO's Anniversary. So they'll be serving from April to April instead of until Dec 31.
    • The Council recommended removing and/or replacing council members who were inactive or who did not participate regularly.
    • Agreed the size of 75 was too large and it's more important to have an active group of 30-40.
    • Discussed ways to loosen their NDA for next year so they can discuss things with you guys a little more openly.
    • Discussed ways we can improve ticket response times in game. Especially for French and German players.
    • Discussed how to make what a GM can and cannot do more clear and well known.
    • The council was very direct in telling us that we need to be more direct and blunt, earlier. Especially when we know that the answer to a request or position will be no.
    • They saw the same presentation from Kate that the entire company saw a week earlier about LOTRO and our 2014 and beyond planning (VERY NDA'd). Gave very good feedback on it.
    • Were very much of the opinion that official global chat channels should be something we work towards.
    • Several members had very long conversations with Jinjaah and Hoarsedev and others about PvMP. Very.. very ... long...

    see last bullet point...it isn't much to go off of for people that are in the "pvp is dead forever mindset" and rightfully so. but have some faith is what I ask

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell | Ornethia: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  19. #19
    And all the flaming and arguing..is why PvP will never be that popular...
    Likes to heal and thinks she is good at it. Unfortunately, can't heal stupid or bad builds...

 

 

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