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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy81 View Post
    Now look at the skill trees for this game. There is no 1/2/3 endurance. The choices, for the most part, effect skikks pretty dramatically.
    Stop spreading false information. Roll a champ and check the traits.
    Champs have skills in which you have to invest 5 times to get amazing +66 might which traslates to something like +0.05% damage increase for L95. Or +66 vitality for tank line, etc.
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  2. #27
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    ^In early Beta rounds, most classes have many filler traits, such as +700 mitigation, or 70-rish stats.

    However, as the beta comes closer to its end, such traits become something nicer. For example:

    -Hunter gets 3 traits, +% critical chance (former critical rating), +% mitigation (former mitagation rating), +% partial evade (former evade rating)
    -Minstrel gets four of 5% in a same trait (+critica multiplier, + tactical danmge...)
    And so on.

    I believe that pointless stat traits like + Might, + Agility, etc... are just being here as placeholders, until the developers can think of something better to change them into. Meanwhile, we can just ignore these traits and spend point somewhere else. You always have another choice for, though it may not be the best, better traits when stumble into these stat traits.

    Upon the HD's launch, the developers may have already changed these stat traits into something more useful. Even if they do not, we can still expect something else to replace them in future updates.
    [I]"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends"[/I] - [B]Gandalf[/B]

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy81 View Post
    I agree about Rift, but I tried and tried but just couldn’t get into it mainly due to the combat. It just felt too much like a chore to me. I should love it, but don’t. Let me ask you this, how much option does the current system allow? 2 or 3 in the off spec? How can you believe the new trees, even with the steep off-spec price, does not allow more options? Even with the capstone you can get the tier three in a spec, or a tier one and a tier two bonus.
    I play mainly a Hoplite tank in Rift now, started Rift when I gave up on this game after seeing that warden had been broken and was not going to get fixed by the time HD released. I have a lot of fun playing as a tank, good aggro tools, some useful little self heals, good panic button skills. My main in LOTRO is a warden tank, what the trees did to wardens is awful. Apart from a few slight damage boost picks from the melee dps tree, there are no out of tree picks to even worry about. I see no flexibility there. A tank tree, a range dps tree and a melee dps tree with almost no useful cross over.

    Most builds in Rift are hybrid, with cross tree picks, even the default automatic builds. You end up with some duplicate base attack abilities but the cross tree picks are aimed at picking up certain specific abilities or in the case of my hybrid dps/healer priest, to build a balance of reasonable dps and off healing ability. He is quite effective at both, his his alternate build as pure dps does significantly more damage but has almost no heals except for a few self heals. The new lotro system with its penalties to out of spec picks does not allow that. Thus is far less flexible.

    Rift is like LOTRO in that as you put points into the tree you also open additional abilities based on points spent in the tree. But LOTRO new system you only get those for your picked spec. Rift it is for whatever tree you put the points into. Thus more flexible.

    Having played the new lotro system in beta, original wow tree system, age of conan, swtor and rift, I find the LOTRO system the least flexible of the lot. It is slightly more flexible than the last wow tree system before they discarded trees altogether. After the trees were discarded in wow and replaced with the limited talent picks, I saw a substantial drop in interest in "what is your build" for raiding though checks for gems, enchants, hit capping, expertise capping etc certainly remain.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy81 View Post
    Lets take a look at TORhead, and lets look at what a point gets you. 1/2/3% increased endurance! Woopity-doo! 2/4/6 damage increase to one skill on a 10 second CD! Count me in! Total DPS increase of less than one percent for only 3 points out of 46, yippy!
    Stopped reading there.

    With the new trait trees my Hunter can invest 5 points (10 if off-spec) to gain ~70 Agi. He normally rolls with 2.5k to 2.8k agi on live. Do the math. And when the decent picks run out that's pretty much all the choice you have. Massively underwhelming stat picks. Sure, SWTOR has those too, but at least my skills are not gated, and it doesn't cost me double to go outside the spec if I want to build to something better.

    Try harder.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffor View Post
    Lol have you ever been to the TOR forum? The childish community is what drove me away from that game for the most part. Even in the most heated moments these forums are nothing compared to the hate and insults spewed over there. I stand by my comparison.

    lol, Yes I have. It's a cesspool and I don't post there.

    Hate and insults are not the only factors in determining a childish, ailing community and other game forums hardly have a monopoly on those traits. Sycophantic fawning and censorship play their part IMO. I doubt I'll be posting here for much longer.

  6. #31
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    If you can switch specs in combat what does it matter? Can you?

    Even if you have to wait I am sure there will be multiple spec slots to spec any sort of way you want to and you can have those ready to go whenever the circumstance arises.

    Of course I imagine once you get above a certain threshold it will cost TP or mithril coins to unlock them. But how many specs do you really need?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodarin View Post
    If you can switch specs in combat what does it matter? Can you?

    Even if you have to wait I am sure there will be multiple spec slots to spec any sort of way you want to and you can have those ready to go whenever the circumstance arises.

    Of course I imagine once you get above a certain threshold it will cost TP or mithril coins to unlock them. But how many specs do you really need?
    You cannot switch in combat.

    You get 2 slots and have to pay 100 mithril coins for each slot after that, per character.

    So, you don't even get slots for all three trees without having to pay.
    Landroval, formerly of Riddermark
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    You cannot switch in combat.

    You get 2 slots and have to pay 100 mithril coins for each slot after that, per character.

    So, you don't even get slots for all three trees without having to pay.
    Pretty much tho, I only use two.

    BTW, if I read right, you can always pay in-game gold and reset your traits, just like you did at a bard. Of course, now you have to reset everything, not just one trait. I already write down both my trait setups, so if I decide on a third, I will go back to the paper method, noting which ones go up to what level.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    For me using more skills gave me flexibility on my minstrel. It was like the difference between a concert piano and a child's toy. You can play the melody on either - but the big piano lets you fill out the song and enrich the experience.

    I don't think either way is right or wrong, and I agree everybody should make up their own mind.

    This guy is obviously a warden...

    Now that you touched upon musical instruments.... this is how i see classes on live right now... Bunch of instruments awkwardly put together... They do work somehow, but when everyone starts playing at the same time you dont get a finely tuned orchestra.

    The game is horribly unbalanced because of this...

    I dont know if these changes will be for better (they do seem though) or worse, but the current state of things is really bad... They need to flush the versatility, some classes have, down the toilet and revive our dead trait lines... It seems they are doing both with these changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    This. I stopped playing SWTOR when people would inspect my build and send me a link to a trait tree build. "Go respec to this or get kicked.." (And, that included guild raids.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post

    I will be amazed if, by January, it will not be, "Load this build for your (Pick a color) (Pick a class) or you will be dropped for someone who is the "best" build". Frankly, its pretty much built into the trait tree concept from the other games I have played.


    Do you know why this doesnt happen in Lotro right now? Because everyone has exactly the same class trait setup.. I will bet you anything that there isnt one non-newb guardian in the whole game that doesnt use the exact same class traits that i do for dpsing or tanking....
    We arent even talking cookie cutter builds here.. We are so far beyond this, that you cant even fail at choosing the best trait setup.. Its blatantly obvious..
    Last edited by zagreb000; Nov 15 2013 at 07:45 PM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    You cannot switch in combat.

    You get 2 slots and have to pay 100 mithril coins for each slot after that, per character.

    So, you don't even get slots for all three trees without having to pay.
    hmm well there could be an argument made for 3 free ones. But I have an idea this game is hemorrhaging money right now so they have to make it where they can I guess.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy81 View Post
    SWTOR has awful, forced-cookie cutter trees with next to no feasible hybridization possible,
    My hybird sorc is the best hybird spec I have ever done in any mmo.....

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodarin View Post
    hmm well there could be an argument made for 3 free ones. But I have an idea this game is hemorrhaging money right now so they have to make it where they can I guess.
    Are the changes going to stop the hemorrhaging? I don't think so, because just on my accounts I stopped buying TP in April timeframe because of disappointment in RoR, and for the first time ever I won't be spending actual cash on the expansion for HD - on any of the 3 accounts. This decision is directly tied to where Turbine is taking content design and class changes. Making money where you can should start with happy customers.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodarin View Post
    hmm well there could be an argument made for 3 free ones. But I have an idea this game is hemorrhaging money right now so they have to make it where they can I guess.
    I spend like a maniac, mostly on cosmetics and such. However, decisions like this, with having only two free slots, are what motivates me not to spend money. More and more I'm feeling nickel and dimed and all that will do is make me hold onto my funds. If others feel the same way, that's a problem. If not, so be it and good for Turbine. But I just thing it's completely wrong.

    100 MC, per character, for each slot and we only get two when there are three trees? And not even one free slot for VIP's? That is complete overkill.
    Landroval, formerly of Riddermark
    Daerrandir (Champion) Daerendir (Hunter)

  14. #39
    On topic of the new skill trees I for one am looking forward to them as they seem promising from the looks of it and I myself do not fully understand how they will work as I have not participated in the beta. Over the last 2 years I have mainly used 2 trait lines on my LM (Red and Yellow) and this update in HD looks promising to allow me better usage of my abilities as well as hopefully making my pets relevant for combat again. As a LM I am losing some of my major buffs now unless im specced to use them but I know that having full red with full powered debuffs most of the time was a bit overkill and am glad of the change having to decide on how effective I will become. It will be a welcomed change of pace for my preferred class.

    I honestly don't know how the other classes fair but I think people here are trying to nit pick about something just for the sake of nitpicking. Who cares if you only have 2 trait swapping slots? Did you guys forget how you do it now? I for one am humbled that that bard will not become worthless and is still needed if you wish to switch things up a bit as having 2 slots to swap is, imo, a luxury we didn't need and enjoyed going to bards to re-trait as it felt emersive into an adventurous experience.

    As for complaints that this is dumbing down the experience and how turbine is nickle and dimeing people is something I can not see. I have only purchased expansions and VIP for a year while I played and from the monthly tp/deeps tp I never once felt like they were trying to make me buy more then what was necessary. The only tp I have ever purchased strait from the store is the current discounted 5k tp in the checkout of the HD purchase dude to the fact I trust them as well as having a decent paying job.

    Quit being shallow! This game is not all about how traits work or how overpowered I can be or if the classes are unbalanced and you cant tank/dps/heal at the same time! This is a rich game that has held firm its great overworld with the underlying lore. While other MMOs hop on the hype train due to some minor feature in other games that were shallow and faulty to begin with I enjoy this game as the fact it has not reduced itself to copying others fullblown. It has features I wish other MMO would take (and yes more would be loved, looking at you guild system) but in an age where other MMOs offer subpar content, lackluster end games, and "coming soon" features that take a year after launch when promised much earlier I am grateful this one is staying traditional in a sense. It has aged well with all its growning with the worst being RoI launch (so many bugs) but since then RoR blew me away with its great content. This seems like the only MMO i've played in recent years where the community is helpful and friendly (tho sometimes a bit AHDH at times on my server).

    Getting off topic but yeah. I am looking forward to a wonderful (I hope, they did wonderful last one) experience defending the wall and doing so with my fellow adventurers.
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    On topic of the new skill trees I for one am looking forward to them as they seem promising from the looks of it and I myself do not fully understand how they will work as I have not participated in the beta. Over the last 2 years I have mainly used 2 trait lines on my LM (Red and Yellow) and this update in HD looks promising to allow me better usage of my abilities as well as hopefully making my pets relevant for combat again. As a LM I am losing some of my major buffs now unless im specced to use them but I know that having full red with full powered debuffs most of the time was a bit overkill and am glad of the change having to decide on how effective I will become. It will be a welcomed change of pace for my preferred class.
    I hope you enjoy it. I didn't play the LM in beta, but perhaps it fared better than my captain, champion, and minstrel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    I honestly don't know how the other classes fair but I think people here are trying to nit pick about something just for the sake of nitpicking. Who cares if you only have 2 trait swapping slots? Did you guys forget how you do it now? I for one am humbled that that bard will not become worthless and is still needed if you wish to switch things up a bit as having 2 slots to swap is, imo, a luxury we didn't need and enjoyed going to bards to re-trait as it felt emersive into an adventurous experience.
    The bard will have nothing to do with traits after Helm's Deep goes live. Instead, retraiting will be done inside your trait panel. And instead of the ability to swap one trait for another, you will need to completely fill out your tree each time you want to free up a point (for 1g 300s in beta).

    The bard will still sell instruments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    As for complaints that this is dumbing down the experience and how turbine is nickle and dimeing people is something I can not see. I have only purchased expansions and VIP for a year while I played and from the monthly tp/deeps tp I never once felt like they were trying to make me buy more then what was necessary. The only tp I have ever purchased strait from the store is the current discounted 5k tp in the checkout of the HD purchase dude to the fact I trust them as well as having a decent paying job.
    One of the stated goals of the class revamps was to decrease the number of skills each player has available. Is that not dumbing things down?

    As to nickel-and-diming, I think one's perceptions of this is dependent on experience. When I first started playing LOTRO, after free to play launched, I didn't find the store buttons annoying. But then there were a series of changes to the game that seemed to serve no in-game purpose other than to direct players to the store: no refund of relics from deconstructing legendary items, removal of the ability to earn significant amounts of Destiny Points, the appearance of Mithril Coin spend-buttons all over the screen, Hobbit Presents, and now an annoying trait interface that becomes easier to use only after spending oodles of Mithril Coins. I'm sure not everyone will find this to be annoying, but I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    Quit being shallow! This game is not all about how traits work or how overpowered I can be or if the classes are unbalanced and you cant tank/dps/heal at the same time! This is a rich game that has held firm its great overworld with the underlying lore. While other MMOs hop on the hype train due to some minor feature in other games that were shallow and faulty to begin with I enjoy this game as the fact it has not reduced itself to copying others fullblown. It has features I wish other MMO would take (and yes more would be loved, looking at you guild system) but in an age where other MMOs offer subpar content, lackluster end games, and "coming soon" features that take a year after launch when promised much earlier I am grateful this one is staying traditional in a sense. It has aged well with all its growning with the worst being RoI launch (so many bugs) but since then RoR blew me away with its great content. This seems like the only MMO i've played in recent years where the community is helpful and friendly (tho sometimes a bit AHDH at times on my server).

    Getting off topic but yeah. I am looking forward to a wonderful (I hope, they did wonderful last one) experience defending the wall and doing so with my fellow adventurers.
    I do look forward to seeing more of the game's Middle Earth world.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    On topic of the new skill trees I for one am looking forward to them as they seem promising from the looks of it and I myself do not fully understand how they will work as I have not participated in the beta. Over the last 2 years I have mainly used 2 trait lines on my LM (Red and Yellow) and this update in HD looks promising to allow me better usage of my abilities as well as hopefully making my pets relevant for combat again. As a LM I am losing some of my major buffs now unless im specced to use them but I know that having full red with full powered debuffs most of the time was a bit overkill and am glad of the change having to decide on how effective I will become. It will be a welcomed change of pace for my preferred class.

    I honestly don't know how the other classes fair but I think people here are trying to nit pick about something just for the sake of nitpicking. Who cares if you only have 2 trait swapping slots? Did you guys forget how you do it now? I for one am humbled that that bard will not become worthless and is still needed if you wish to switch things up a bit as having 2 slots to swap is, imo, a luxury we didn't need and enjoyed going to bards to re-trait as it felt emersive into an adventurous experience.

    As for complaints that this is dumbing down the experience and how turbine is nickle and dimeing people is something I can not see. I have only purchased expansions and VIP for a year while I played and from the monthly tp/deeps tp I never once felt like they were trying to make me buy more then what was necessary. The only tp I have ever purchased strait from the store is the current discounted 5k tp in the checkout of the HD purchase dude to the fact I trust them as well as having a decent paying job.

    Quit being shallow! This game is not all about how traits work or how overpowered I can be or if the classes are unbalanced and you cant tank/dps/heal at the same time! This is a rich game that has held firm its great overworld with the underlying lore. While other MMOs hop on the hype train due to some minor feature in other games that were shallow and faulty to begin with I enjoy this game as the fact it has not reduced itself to copying others fullblown. It has features I wish other MMO would take (and yes more would be loved, looking at you guild system) but in an age where other MMOs offer subpar content, lackluster end games, and "coming soon" features that take a year after launch when promised much earlier I am grateful this one is staying traditional in a sense. It has aged well with all its growning with the worst being RoI launch (so many bugs) but since then RoR blew me away with its great content. This seems like the only MMO i've played in recent years where the community is helpful and friendly (tho sometimes a bit AHDH at times on my server).

    Getting off topic but yeah. I am looking forward to a wonderful (I hope, they did wonderful last one) experience defending the wall and doing so with my fellow adventurers.
    Sorry but I think you're completely off base calling people shallow. I'm glad that you're happy with all the changes but that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't like them is wrong or shallow.

    How could you say that this game is not copying other MMO's? It seems to me that this is exactly copying other games. Every MMO I play has trees. This was the one game that didnt have them and allowed much flexibility. It has nothing to do with being overpowered. Now, the system is just like any other game. That's not even my biggest issue though.

    I can deal with the whole skill tree change. It is what it is. But, it's not right that we have to pay to have a setup in all of the trees, on each character we have. You don't use all three? Ok, great, I'm glad you don't have to spend anything. But, why should I have to pay such a steep price for one extra setup? Turbine is removing a function and giving it back at a cost. It's the same thing with the relic system from before. I just don't agree with this practice, especially when even VIPs can't get an extra slot.
    Landroval, formerly of Riddermark
    Daerrandir (Champion) Daerendir (Hunter)

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    But, it's not right that we have to pay to have a setup in all of the trees, on each character we have. You don't use all three? Ok, great, I'm glad you don't have to spend anything. But, why should I have to pay such a steep price for one extra setup? Turbine is removing a function and giving it back at a cost. It's the same thing with the relic system from before. I just don't agree with this practice, especially when even VIPs can't get an extra slot.
    While it would be nice to be able to save more setups I really cannot see why they take away a functionality.
    There was no functionality of saving a setup at all before.

    While it will be quite a bit more cumbersome to totally respec than it is now with just flipping a couple of traits at the bard vs. completly refilling a trait tree the actual functionality of saving a setup was never available for the characters.

    I am quite reluctant about going to trees myself but comparing the saving of just two setups to taking away the possibility of unslotting relics goes a bit too far in my opinion.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post

    100 MC, per character, for each slot and we only get two when there are three trees? And not even one free slot for VIP's?
    F2P players only have one slot... Premium and VIP are the only ones who get 2 slots.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    My opinion is the exact opposite. Every other MMO has trait trees. Lotro was the game that allowed me serious, fun, and very effective hybrid builds. Now, that has been taken away and replaced with simple generic focused roles. The classes you play may not be like this, and if that's the case I'm genuinely happy for you. But sadly, my own classes have been stripped down and changed in a way I don't like at all.
    This is my feeling also. I've played many MMOs that use a skill tree system and the LotRO buffet system was a refreshing change. With the buffet system, you could still specialize in your preferred role, while still allowing many other builds for those that like them. There was more freedom of choice with the present buffet system.

    Changes such as this do not affect core 'trinity' classes as much as hybrids who, by definition, are not as specialized into DPS/Tank/Healer roles. The strength of hybrid support classes is in the ability to do multiple things, just not as well as the prime class.
    Now, hybrid classes are somewhat forced into a specialization tree and will STILL be inferior to their primary counterpart. For example, a captain, no matter how they specialize, will never be as good at DPS as a hunter or champion, will never be as good at tanking as a guardian and never be as good at healing as a minstrel. This was true with the present buffet system as well, but before this forced specialization, I could compensate by being adaptable and flexible with skills that allowed me to do multiple things at the same time. I find the double cost for skills not in your 'first' tree to be especially onerous.

    Will there be changes and adjustments later on? Absolutely, but to think that these adjustments will greatly modify the fundamental arrangement from HD release is extremely unlikely.

  20. #45

    Hold your horses

    Hi,

    Huh, ppl, lets hold your horses.
    18th is just 2 days now. We will see whats where. Personally i hope placeholders in trait trees are gone, or there are gonna be rather heated discussions on glff.
    Things in beta give directions where its heading, and by now i think absoluetly everyone who wanted to shout and rumble and make a point, have made one or many, for better or for worse.

    So well see how it turns up, then a week or 2 goes by and hotfixes are domming in. then its time to goive a thought how it looks. In about a three monts turbine sees how investment pays back, or not, and some new changes roll in.

    Personally i am holding back all my emotions, thoughst and impressions until launch. 18th is the day, or maybe 19th, when servers are back up, we wil see.

    And if there is now even one person out of fifty`, who dares to say that this post is either lover or hater, i suggest to consider of doing something else.

    ¨- thats some old stuff, pls discard all together is you dont get at once what this is about. Long story, not good one. Will not tell when asked.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    The bard will have nothing to do with traits after Helm's Deep goes live. Instead, retraiting will be done inside your trait panel. And instead of the ability to swap one trait for another, you will need to completely fill out your tree each time you want to free up a point (for 1g 300s in beta).

    The bard will still sell instruments.
    This is my fault for assuming. I have not played the beta and just assumed we would still go to the bard to retrait. As for spending 1g 300s is that only when you use your max trait points? If so that means lower lvl classes dont have to spend as much to retrait and your worried about 1g 300s? In game I am considered poor but 1g+ is very easily obtainable at high lvls by selling trash mats from the mobs you kill so I have no problem with the cost of them and don't mind paying that price if/when needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    One of the stated goals of the class revamps was to decrease the number of skills each player has available. Is that not dumbing things down?
    No they are not dumbing down the game and taking away abilities, they are simply putting them behind walls to unlock with traits. The devs themselves even admitted as time when on they gave abilities to people that allowed them to become more powerful in all aspects instead of actually deciding what they needed to bring along to battles. I am glad they are taking some abilities away (or the full potential of them at least) to be used in a tree instead of having a good chunk of things ready to use no matter what tree I was in. Sometimes its good to take a step back and get the bigger picture and as also with the new trait trees it is stated it is "ment to make the classes perform their duties more distinctly".


    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    Sorry but I think you're completely off base calling people shallow. I'm glad that you're happy with all the changes but that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't like them is wrong or shallow.

    How could you say that this game is not copying other MMO's? It seems to me that this is exactly copying other games. Every MMO I play has trees. This was the one game that didnt have them and allowed much flexibility. It has nothing to do with being overpowered. Now, the system is just like any other game. That's not even my biggest issue though.

    I can deal with the whole skill tree change. It is what it is. But, it's not right that we have to pay to have a setup in all of the trees, on each character we have. You don't use all three? Ok, great, I'm glad you don't have to spend anything. But, why should I have to pay such a steep price for one extra setup? Turbine is removing a function and giving it back at a cost. It's the same thing with the relic system from before. I just don't agree with this practice, especially when even VIPs can't get an extra slot.
    As I said earlier they are not copying every other MMO "Fullblown" and I do not think a more laid out and updated trait tree will be a problem for this game as some would like you to believe. As I only play one character these MC restraints do not bother me as much, I will admit, but 2 slots is more then enough imo to allow a flexibility between move set ups on the fly. Paying 1g 300s as I quoted above is nothing to higher lvls who can make that money easy by selling trash from defeated mobs so I see no problem unless your an avid trait changer who just cant possibly make 1 trait setup work most of the time roaming around.

    Also sadly yes I do only use 2 trait setups on my LM with red/yellow being my only options as our blue line as been severely underpowered and got worse with each expansion (animal fighting wise, not healing) but this looks like it will finally allow me to utilize all 3 trait trees now so I will be affected with this change as well (but a few mith coins won't kill me for one more slot).

    Honestly with todays gaming market with all these dlcs being bought all the time in every game by "gamers" with to much spending cash and with other games, much worse spending wise, making you pay to do anything in them Lotro still has the best F2P experience imo and while some people do play from the free side you have to realize that some people don't mind paying for a bit of microtransactions. If you love the game just spend a few dollars and support them, not like its completely unplayable if you don't. F2P is an option not ment to allow you access to everything in the game as its more of a window into its world, they just wont hand it to you all for free so a few bucks is expected. If you play long enough or only play high lvl characters then you can make it completely free in time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130000000b5cae/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #47
    gonna use hunter as a example

    but when you lock a trait around critical eye which is 5% crit rating and you need 5 ranks to get deadly precision then i have a issue if your gonna lock that skill behind something how about something else besides stuff that gives crit,physical mastery,block,parry,evade,mitg ation,crit defense, or a stat just name some of the possible things that could lock a certain trait then i have a issue with how you set your trees up i have no issues locking skills just don't do it the way i mention above

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    This is my fault for assuming. I have not played the beta and just assumed we would still go to the bard to retrait. As for spending 1g 300s is that only when you use your max trait points? If so that means lower lvl classes dont have to spend as much to retrait and your worried about 1g 300s? In game I am considered poor but 1g+ is very easily obtainable at high lvls by selling trash mats from the mobs you kill so I have no problem with the cost of them and don't mind paying that price if/when needed.
    If I remember correctly, that was the cost at level 85. The cost is lower for lower-level characters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    No they are not dumbing down the game and taking away abilities, they are simply putting them behind walls to unlock with traits. The devs themselves even admitted as time when on they gave abilities to people that allowed them to become more powerful in all aspects instead of actually deciding what they needed to bring along to battles. I am glad they are taking some abilities away (or the full potential of them at least) to be used in a tree instead of having a good chunk of things ready to use no matter what tree I was in.
    Indeed, some of the decisions players need to make have been moved from "in battle" to "before battle". But the decisions about how to fill out the trees, or which spec you should choose for a particular encounter are straightforward. There is little challenge in choosing a trait setup. Just the exercise of swapping to the correct spec before an encounter, the chore of filling out all those traits each time you want to respecialize, or the cost of buying an extra saved spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    Sometimes its good to take a step back and get the bigger picture and as also with the new trait trees it is stated it is "ment to make the classes perform their duties more distinctly".
    The devs have said this repeatedly. But making this the goal of the revamp is still controversial among some of us. I, for one, don't think this outcome is nearly valuable enough to justify the changes they have made to the game.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    Indeed, some of the decisions players need to make have been moved from "in battle" to "before battle". But the decisions about how to fill out the trees, or which spec you should choose for a particular encounter are straightforward.
    My point is that is what we already do isn't it? Why do people seem to think the 7 traits we use every day are so customizable when you only select the ones you know will be useful. We have always used the most effective trait set up so this is nothing new like people are arguing it to be. Pre- and post- you will still have your go to dungeon set up and PVMP setup and nothing will change.

    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    There is little challenge in choosing a trait setup. Just the exercise of swapping to the correct spec before an encounter, the chore of filling out all those traits each time you want to respecialize, or the cost of buying an extra saved spec.
    As said already, we already use the best obvious trait setup with no challenge so this is just more of the same (altho I feel its more customizable then our current one). Also why are people complaining about respeccting/building the whole tree back up? If your going to swap that often from fight to fight then you better buy more slots right away. If you don't swap that consistently then "the chore" of 20 clicks will ruin your gaming experience? #firstworldproblems

    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    The revamp is still controversial among some of us. I, for one, don't think this outcome is nearly valuable enough to justify the changes they have made to the game.
    I feel the revamp will be a fresh change of pace to the game. Adds more dynamic set ups to obstacles and allows groups to get more in depth with planning. It might feel like a fresh game and after 5 years that is what is going to be fun. New mechanics to learn and enjoy with some classes getting help in areas they were dragging behind in.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130000000b5cae/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    My point is that is what we already do isn't it? Why do people seem to think the 7 traits we use every day are so customizable when you only select the ones you know will be useful. We have always used the most effective trait set up so this is nothing new like people are arguing it to be. Pre- and post- you will still have your go to dungeon set up and PVMP setup and nothing will change.


    As said already, we already use the best obvious trait setup with no challenge so this is just more of the same (altho I feel its more customizable then our current one). Also why are people complaining about respeccting/building the whole tree back up? If your going to swap that often from fight to fight then you better buy more slots right away. If you don't swap that consistently then "the chore" of 20 clicks will ruin your gaming experience? #firstworldproblems
    That is indeed true. I was pointing out that traiting after the revamp isn't challenging or interesting (to me at least). This, combined with the reduced depth of in-combat decisions, is what dumbs down the game.

    And I don't want to buy more trait specs. I want to play LOTRO without some annoying new anti-feature blocking my access to my preferred playstyle, a feature that can be somewhat bypassed only by handing over more lucre. Is my subscription not good enough?

    And I didn't say "the chore" of 20 clicks will ruin the gaming experience. I said it's a chore. Who wants more chores during their free time?

    And it isn't 20 clicks; it's 65. I argued often during the beta that the developers should change the trees so that they had fewer traits and points but have more meaningful choices. That suggestion was not acted upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madden666 View Post
    I feel the revamp will be a fresh change of pace to the game. Adds more dynamic set ups to obstacles and allows groups to get more in depth with planning. It might feel like a fresh game and after 5 years that is what is going to be fun. New mechanics to learn and enjoy with some classes getting help in areas they were dragging behind in.
    This is orthogonal to what I was commenting about, but I disagree. This will be a change of pace, but I don't think it is in any way fresh. The setups are less dynamic. The group planning will be more shallow. The new mechanics are constraining and annoying: former skills changed to procs triggered by other skills, fewer choices in combat, rigid constraints on trait setups. Some classes are getting help, but the whole slew of classes will be completely unbalanced for months after launch. The minstrel and the champion are a nightmare right now.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

 

 
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