We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 107
  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post

    Back to your point regarding your customer who always ranted & raged - did you ever find out why he felt the need to do that? Just curious.
    He told me he would get results that way, that in life "he who shouts loudest wins". That people should know at "my end" how he felt at "his end". That "my people were paid to take this sort of thing" - they aren't, they are paid to solve problems. He told me he would have my job, that my LinkedIN profile would be affected etc etc etc. In short, he felt the fact his system was not working 100% justified any actions he took. I disagreed. His company still gets support, they are good and long-term customers. The ban on him contacting us as an individual is simply because he was incapable of being civil.

    There was NO excuse for his antics and he didn't get what he wanted. And I still have my job.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,475
    Quote Originally Posted by Damojo View Post
    He told me he would get results that way, that in life "he who shouts loudest wins". That people should know at "my end" how he felt at "his end". That "my people were paid to take this sort of thing" - they aren't, they are paid to solve problems. He told me he would have my job, that my LinkedIN profile would be affected etc etc etc. In short, he felt the fact his system was not working 100% justified any actions he took. I disagreed. His company still gets support, they are good and long-term customers. The ban on him contacting us as an individual is simply because he was incapable of being civil.

    There was NO excuse for his antics and he didn't get what he wanted. And I still have my job.
    Fair enough. I'd do the same and ban him. A wonder how he managed to keep his job given that, even though he was the customer, he was representing the organisation he worked for.

    Seems to me that he was incapable of being assertive and mixed it up with outright aggression. Either that or he watched too many episodes of the Sopranos.
    It must be your PC...

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    Maybe nothing. Vulgarity and hateful ranting is always 100% the wrong way to go about providing feedback.
    Seriously. I think part of why this happens so much is the anonymity of the internet. If you got mad about Walmart, for instance (maybe they stopped selling something you liked, or whatever) and walked into the store and spoke to the cashiers, or manager the way some posters speak to the devs you'd be escorted out of the store at best. Certain behavior is simply not tolerated by any business. Most of us wouldn't do that, but for some reason we feel we can behave that way on the forums.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Fair enough. I'd do the same and ban him. A wonder how he managed to keep his job given that, even though he was the customer, he was representing the organisation he worked for.

    Seems to me that he was incapable of being assertive and mixed it up with outright aggression. Either that or he watched too many episodes of the Sopranos.
    His board, who as I say agreed to the decision, tell me he's outstanding technically and good with the staff and customers there. I have no experience of the latter but yes, I'd agree technically he's very good. I have no interest in them taking action against him, that's their decision. But he's not the first person I've met in work life who is nice as pie to their own customers and beyond the pale to suppliers - how these individuals can reconcile that, i don't know.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    This. Generally speaking people who are just yelling and being abusive are doing exactly that. Just yelling and being abusive. They are providing no useful feedback. Even the reasons for the yelling and abusive behavior are often time lost in the process. So sure, it tells us someone is upset to the point they feel the need to be abusive, but literally nothing else.



    Ignoring the 34 posts closed/removed for being spam (sorry, you just can't have an Irish passport! I will not allow it! ), there have have been slightly less than 4,000 new threads started in the past 30 days. About six of those were closed as part of being posted by the staff, so they don't count. of the rest, 7 player created threads were closed during that same period. Roughly 0.00175% of new posts in the past month were closed for violations.

    At least three of them were closed because they were reopening previously closed topics (as spelled out in the community guidelines). Which means 4 were closed for other violations. Or, roughly 0.0009% of all new posts in the past month.

    I'm not sure I'd call 7 out of some 4,000 'overzealous'. In fact, I know quite a few people who would view that as being very lax and even too 'hands off'.
    You might want to check your information; On the first three pages of the general discussion alone, there are 8 threads that were closed that started within the past 11 days. Just saying...
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  6. #81
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    You might want to check your information; On the first three pages of the general discussion alone, there are 8 threads that were closed that started within the past 11 days. Just saying...
    Fair enough. I only ran the original report on my own thread closures in the past 30 days, not the entire team. Looking again we're still talking about less than 1 per day over the past 30 days and it's still a tiny tiny percentage of total threads. About 0.007%

    The point still remains. The perception, or attempt to create a perception, is not even close to the reality.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Local cluster
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by FittyBolger View Post
    I don't blame the Devs one bit.

    IMO there are simply too few of them to adequately deal with the amount of resistance Helm's Deep BETA has received.
    It is all well and good to have opinions, but you should realize that the customer support desk is not at all involved in developing parts of the game, except by serving as gatekeepers relaying suggestions. Therefore, I am afraid your apology misses its mark..

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    This. Generally speaking people who are just yelling and being abusive are doing exactly that. Just yelling and being abusive. They are providing no useful feedback. Even the reasons for the yelling and abusive behavior are often time lost in the process. So sure, it tells us someone is upset to the point they feel the need to be abusive, but literally nothing else.

    Ignoring the 34 posts closed/removed for being spam (sorry, you just can't have an Irish passport! I will not allow it! ), there have have been slightly less than 4,000 new threads started in the past 30 days. About six of those were closed as part of being posted by the staff, so they don't count. of the rest, 7 player created threads were closed during that same period. Roughly 0.00175% of new posts in the past month were closed for violations.

    At least three of them were closed because they were reopening previously closed topics (as spelled out in the community guidelines). Which means 4 were closed for other violations. Or, roughly 0.0009% of all new posts in the past month.

    I'm not sure I'd call 7 out of some 4,000 'overzealous'. In fact, I know quite a few people who would view that as being very lax and even too 'hands off'.
    I think those numbers should be: .175% of the new posts, and .09% not counting the reopening of closed topics, yes? Still very, very small, of course.

    The real irony in this is my role as the Mathematics Police

    But Sapience deserves it! The developers get an overpowered version of the Loremasters' Sic 'em! skill, which Sapience used to great effect on us to close out the beta the other day
    Last edited by Valkrist; Nov 14 2013 at 04:10 PM.


    Currently running The Spirit Gauntlet, during which no fate is unimaginable...

    'Legendary' Items - Tips, Tricks, and a Guide to the 'Grind' - a Legendary Items guide! (And a new Imbuing guide! and Essence guide!)

    The Life and Times of Kaleigh Starshine: Curing insomnia, one reader at a time, and a proud resident of The Cottage of Pen and Play

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    It already has in some respects. It's the first expansion that we've had since Shadows Of Angmar that required us to add servers to the beta world to match the number of players trying to log in and participate. It was the first beta since Shadows of Angmar that actually tripped our login queues on the beta world and forced us to raise the max player population.
    It's not surprising HD beta broke records considering Turbine was giving away beta keys to anything and everything with a pulse, basically begging players to try out the expansion lots of people have a lukewarm to negative view toward, including me. Lots of keys given away means lots of players trying out beta just to see what to expect, thereby boosting the numbers of beta users.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England. north-west
    Posts
    2,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwuryn View Post
    It's not surprising HD beta broke records considering Turbine was giving away beta keys to anything
    every other expansion has done that.

    in fact, some have gone fully open beta.

    I think it has to do more about the context of the update than how many were invited. class revamps are touchy and people will want to see.
    Last edited by bohbashum; Nov 14 2013 at 10:01 PM.
    [CENTER][URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/bubushum/media/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png.html][IMG]http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/bubushum/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cookie Land
    Posts
    1,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Fair enough. I only ran the original report on my own thread closures in the past 30 days, not the entire team. Looking again we're still talking about less than 1 per day over the past 30 days and it's still a tiny tiny percentage of total threads. About 0.007%

    The point still remains. The perception, or attempt to create a perception, is not even close to the reality.

    There are 8 closed threads on the first 2 pages. 2 have been closed by a post from you. One was closed by another blue name post. 5 were closed without a reason being given.

    Since less than 1 thread per day is being closed, would it be too much trouble to write a short post as to why each thread is being closed? Or are there concerns other than time constraints that reasons are sometimes not given.

  12. #87
    Some interesting positions here, tho i note sadly that "angry" and "rant" are grouped together with "Insulting" and "abusive". which i honestly believe is wrong. the former are not the same as the latter.

    People who dismiss angry and ranting shouldn't be anywhere near customer relations at all, equally, those who think personal insults and vitriol are a form of expression should also not be allowed anywhere near customer relations.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    This. Generally speaking people who are just yelling and being abusive are doing exactly that. Just yelling and being abusive. They are providing no useful feedback. Even the reasons for the yelling and abusive behavior are often time lost in the process. So sure, it tells us someone is upset to the point they feel the need to be abusive, but literally nothing else.



    Ignoring the 34 posts closed/removed for being spam (sorry, you just can't have an Irish passport! I will not allow it! ), there have have been slightly less than 4,000 new threads started in the past 30 days. About six of those were closed as part of being posted by the staff, so they don't count. of the rest, 7 player created threads were closed during that same period. Roughly 0.00175% of new posts in the past month were closed for violations.

    At least three of them were closed because they were reopening previously closed topics (as spelled out in the community guidelines). Which means 4 were closed for other violations. Or, roughly 0.0009% of all new posts in the past month.

    I'm not sure I'd call 7 out of some 4,000 'overzealous'. In fact, I know quite a few people who would view that as being very lax and even too 'hands off'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Fair enough. I only ran the original report on my own thread closures in the past 30 days, not the entire team. Looking again we're still talking about less than 1 per day over the past 30 days and it's still a tiny tiny percentage of total threads. About 0.007%

    The point still remains. The perception, or attempt to create a perception, is not even close to the reality.
    Yes indeed it's only a small number of threads that are closed. I'm not even going to bother with going back 30 days as I don't have access to the same tools as you; we will just use the 1st two pages. That brings is to 8 closed threads; of those 8 two that I read went off topic, or were borderline questionable. One I never read. that leaves us with 5 that were about HD.

    There are 40 posts per page so 80 total posts in those two pages.

    80/8=10 10%

    Well that's 10% That really isn't to bad now is it? It's not quite the .007% that we see above but you know whats a few 0's anyway? I certainly never notice when they remove a few of the back end of my paycheck.

    But hey I have an idea lets look into this further.

    8/5=.625 62.5%

    Or in other words 62.5% of closed threads in the first 2 pages of this form are about HD. I find that interesting, anyone else? What I don't find is that it is surprising. I will openly admit without all the tools to view a larger sample size numbers could be more than a bit off.


    Now more on the topic at hand, I agree, the Devs and beta testers should both be given some slack. Devs are programers, programing to the specifications that they were handed. Beta testers were likewise asked to work and provide feedback within those constraints. I hold none of them accountable for what I do not like about HD.


    On the topic of cutting people a bit of slack, of those wanting to speak their mind and have a less than positive outlook about HD; 62.5% are being shut down. Perhaps the players that come to official LOTRO forums to discuss their concerns about HD should be cut a bit of slack too.

    Just my .02 cents.


    Orladen
    Last edited by Anisson; Nov 14 2013 at 11:48 PM.
    Helms Deep:Member
    Orladen: 105Min | Bobert-2: 105 Burg | Anisson: 85 LM | Guildabrant 105 Capt | Grindori 100 Champ

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Fair enough. I only ran the original report on my own thread closures in the past 30 days, not the entire team. Looking again we're still talking about less than 1 per day over the past 30 days and it's still a tiny tiny percentage of total threads. About 0.007%

    The point still remains. The perception, or attempt to create a perception, is not even close to the reality.
    And this skips the fact that only a small handful of sub-forums are actively perused and "moderated" by the community team. It's very obvious that Server forums are not regularly checked by community team members, and any moderation that takes place in them is in direct response to reports. I would speculate that the same happens in the PvMP (and creep/freep sub-forum) and many of the crafting/instance/class forums. The alternative would imply that the community team actively checks those forums, and willfully lets blatant community guideline violations pass.

    Perhaps a more accurate measure of thread closure rates (since you seem willing to be open about the process) would be to show the rate of threads being locked/posts deleted in the major sub-forums (Official discussion, General, Helm's Deep) that do receive regular inspection by the community team.

    Also, I wonder whether those facts include threads that have been outright deleted, rather than locked.
    Last edited by spelunker; Nov 14 2013 at 11:54 PM.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Since there seems to be so much debate about what is and isn't acceptable, let me remind everyone that it is actually, in the framework of discussions within this forum, a very clearly spelled out set of guidelines that everyone is held to. There is no ambiguity (though some like to rules lawyer and debate what the definition of "is" is). You can find those Community Guidelines right here: https://www.lotro.com/en/content/community-guidelines
    Additionally keep in mind that not every person participating in this forum is a native English speaker.
    There might be differences between the meant and the wrotten words that may contain unintended rudeness.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England. north-west
    Posts
    2,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Anisson View Post
    Well that's 10% That really isn't to bad now is it? It's not quite the .007% that we see above but you know whats a few 0's anyway? I certainly never notice when they remove a few of the back end of my paycheck.
    where did you get your sample, sounds way off.

    people do post everywhere on the forums.

    in other words 62.5% of closed threads in the first 2 pages of this form are about HD. I find that interesting, anyone else?
    not at all.

    your connected some seriously far away dots with what your implying.

    all that really proved is class revamps (not helms deep most of the time) is a new subject people like to break the rules enough to be reported in. your statistics are horribly disproportionate as I seriously doubt your sample size is large enough at all, and you've probably been very selective.

    and no wonder people are going berzerk, it's class revamps, what do you expect XD

    thats like saying "it's suspicious all these threads about irish passports are being deleted". unless turbine is starting a free accounts to Ireland I don't think we've got much to worry about.
    [CENTER][URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/bubushum/media/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png.html][IMG]http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/bubushum/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

  17. #92
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Anisson View Post
    Yes indeed it's only a small number of threads that are closed. I'm not even going to bother with going back 30 days as I don't have access to the same tools as you; we will just use the 1st two pages. That brings is to 8 closed threads; of those 8 two that I read went off topic, or were borderline questionable. One I never read. that leaves us with 5 that were about HD.

    There are 40 posts per page so 80 total posts in those two pages.

    80/8=10 10%

    Well that's 10% That really isn't to bad now is it? It's not quite the .007% that we see above but you know whats a few 0's anyway? I certainly never notice when they remove a few of the back end of my paycheck.

    But hey I have an idea lets look into this further.

    8/5=.625 62.5%

    Or in other words 62.5% of closed threads in the first 2 pages of this form are about HD. I find that interesting, anyone else? What I don't find is that it is surprising. I will openly admit without all the tools to view a larger sample size numbers could be more than a bit off.


    Now more on the topic at hand, I agree, the Devs and beta testers should both be given some slack. Devs are programers, programing to the specifications that they were handed. Beta testers were likewise asked to work and provide feedback within those constraints. I hold none of them accountable for what I do not like about HD.


    On the topic of cutting people a bit of slack, of those wanting to speak their mind and have a less than positive outlook about HD; 62.5% are being shut down. Perhaps the players that come to official LOTRO forums to discuss their concerns about HD should be cut a bit of slack too.

    Just my .02 cents.


    Orladen
    I'll play fun with numbers. Let's use the Helm's Deep forum. English only. There are 2 closed threads on the first two pages (80 posts at 40 per page). One is closed because it's yet another rehashing of the license question we have answered repeatedly. The other is a thread about FIFA2014, which I think we're all pretty confident in saying is not about Helm's Deep. So 2 out of 80, or (0.025%). None about Helm's Deep, pro or con, are closed. So 0 negative threads closed. Or, to use percentages, 100% of the negative threads on the first two pages remain open and available for anyone who wishes to read them or comment on them. So on the subject of cutting people some slack, to use your terms, Of those wanting to speaking their mind and have less than a positive outlook about HD; 100% are being allowed to do so.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England. north-west
    Posts
    2,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    So 2 out of 80, or (0.025%).
    maths fail?

    thats 2.5%, not 0.025%

    I think with that mention we should be aloud to review your other post

    0.00175%
    ...
    0.0009%
    were probably 0.175% and 0.09% following the same mistake.

    0.0009% would mean there would have been just over 1,000,000 posts in a day! 1,000 a day seems more believable.

    surprised I didn't catch that out before actually.
    [CENTER][URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/bubushum/media/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png.html][IMG]http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/bubushum/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

  19. #94
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    maths fail?

    thats 2.5%, not 0.025%

    I think with that mention we should be aloud to review your other post


    were probably 0.175% and 0.09% following the same mistake.

    0.0009% would mean there would have been just over 1,000,000 posts in a day! 1,000 a day seems more believable.

    surprised I didn't catch that out before actually.
    Yep, you're right. My bad.

    I really need to invest in a desktop calculator.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cookie Land
    Posts
    1,617
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    maths fail?

    thats 2.5%, not 0.025%

    I think with that mention we should be aloud to review your other post


    were probably 0.175% and 0.09% following the same mistake.

    0.0009% would mean there would have been just over 1,000,000 posts in a day! 1,000 a day seems more believable.

    surprised I didn't catch that out before actually.

    Sapience forgot to move the decimal point 2 spaces to the right after he ran the numbers. An easy step to forget when converting to percentages.

    0.0009% = 9 of every 1,000,000
    0.00175% = 175 of every 10,000,000

    Readjusting leads us to:

    0.09% = 9 of every 10,000 (or slightly less than 1 of every 1,000
    0.175% = 175 of every 100,000 (or 17.5 of every 10,000)
    Last edited by RKL; Nov 15 2013 at 07:20 PM.

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Posts
    465
    Quote Originally Posted by Anisson View Post
    On the topic of cutting people a bit of slack, of those wanting to speak their mind and have a less than positive outlook about HD; 62.5% are being shut down. Perhaps the players that come to official LOTRO forums to discuss their concerns about HD should be cut a bit of slack too.
    It seems to me that players who come here to discuss don't get shut down at all, only those ones who come here to toss a tantrum like they are 2 and their mommy just told them they can't have Super Sugar Choco Puffs in the cereal aisle of the local supermarket seem to be getting shut down, as they should. If people are too infantile to interact in adult society they should be banned from it. As my proof I offer the posts and threads beyond count on these forums where players say they don't like, or even hate a feature of the game, yet haven't been closed or moderated.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Reximus View Post
    It seems to me that players who come here to discuss don't get shut down at all, only those ones who come here to toss a tantrum like they are 2 and their mommy just told them they can't have Super Sugar Choco Puffs in the cereal aisle of the local supermarket seem to be getting shut down, as they should. If people are too infantile to interact in adult society they should be banned from it. As my proof I offer the posts and threads beyond count on these forums where players say they don't like, or even hate a feature of the game, yet haven't been closed or moderated.
    Just so you know, they do HIDE posters comments, so that the posters ONLY see their posts....and don't know that they've been effectively silenced. And, it is not because of vulgarity or disrespect. Just saying.

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brandywine
    Posts
    2,226
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasFlora View Post
    Just so you know, they do HIDE posters comments, so that the posters ONLY see their posts....and don't know that they've been effectively silenced. And, it is not because of vulgarity or disrespect. Just saying.
    Do you have a source that confirms your claim?

  24. #99

    Question

    I dont know. I have not seen any actual effort of a reply to any complaint other than perhaps what might be 3rd Part Mouth peaces. As all games there some who go over the top and others who complain as they have the right to and get sensorord all the same. I pay for VIP, then purchase the expansion on top of points for store use. I don:t think it is to much to expect and get a working functional product. As they are trying to squeeze every dime out of us instead of fixing issues as such with the Mitheral coins for traveling. As VIP I cant go places as I once did and I am asked to pay Mitheral coins to travle. Give them a break. Then respond and fix the issues. Like the out dated junk in Ettenmoor.
    .
    lvl 95 Champion / Rank 10 Arkenstone Server / Officer - Order of the Cresent Dragon / Kuznumshi lvl 95 Reaver / Rank 7 Arkenstone Server / Grunt of Tribe of Aracnophobia

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,424
    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    Do you have a source that confirms your claim?
    If this is still a vBulletin site (it used to be, haven't checked) there is an easy mod/admin feature that can make it so any user's post is visible only to himself/herself.

    With that said if they were really trying to hide or silence negative posts I wouldn't have one still visible because I'm not a fan of Helms Deep, haven't been since release, and I continue to express my opinion. I try to do it politely - some may disagree - but I do it where I choose. I've seen enough of my posts quoted and sometimes mangled by others that I know people see them. I've seen enough posts by people I think shouldn't be allowed internet access that I know this whole "conspiracy" to silence negative voices is, to put it politely, hogwash.

    Do I think Turbine communicates effectively? No. Do I think they respond to their users the way I personally would like them to? No. Do I think there's some grand conspiracy going on? No.

    It can be because:

    1. We're not worth their time. Sorry folks.
    2. They have better things to do. They probably do.

    Although I too see closed threads around I also see many more that I can't believe are still open. Just accept the fact the complaining is expected by Turbine, they're not overly concerned about it, they expect it to subside within a couple weeks, they expect people to adapt and the whole thing become just another day on lotro.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN: Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10 + alts CRICKHOLLOW: Moochy, 21 Minstrel

 

 
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload