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  1. #1

    Grouped enemies like Warbands and boggart swarms, enemies with actual classes!

    You've got to feel sorry for the average orc. We're coming at them with tons of different skills and in groups mix and matching all sorts of different ways to slaughter them. They have auto attack and maybe a debuff or two. Sometimes they have a heal.

    Imagine if there were enemies in balanced groups. The healers were really good at healing but really vulnerable themselves. Archers that did lots of damage and kept their distance, while letting the tougher melee troops hammer away. The basic behaviors are all already in game, we just only see them in special circumstances.

    I think the reason we don't see enemies fighting like this out on the landscape, or at least in their camps, is a balance one. If enemy healers are much better at healing than they are now, but also much more vulnerable to burglars stabbing them in the back, obviously Burglars are going to only want to fight them. If tanky enemies are balanced to counter burglars, they're going to be annoyed when they have to fight one of those. If enemies have counter-classes, the smart thing for everyone to do would be to just skip the annoying ones that counter them and cherry pick the enemies they can quickly destroy.

    Group up classes of enemies like boggarts or warbands though, where we only get rewarded when the main enemy is defeated, and there can be incentives to have a proper battle.

  2. #2
    The landscape areas of Middle Earth are designed for solo players with poor gear and little ability with playing their character.

    You are asking for Turbine to set aside part of the landscape for difficult content that can only be tackled by balanced well trained team. Turbine only does this kind of content within the instance system. If you believe forum posters, most instance content is easy content.

    I doubt we will get anything more complicated than the existing War Band system.

    Turbine spent gobs of dollars creating Nan Guruth, Dol Dinen and Annuminas years ago for low utilization by the customer base. Turbine found that the majority of players avoid areas that are solo unfriendly. These avoidance players complained that there was nothing to do in game. Please create content for us. The end result was a solo revamp for Annuminas and for the goblin area near the Forsaken Inn Lonelands.

    Unfortunately, if you want hard core game play you will need to play a hard core niche market game like Vanguard.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    The landscape areas of Middle Earth are designed for solo players with poor gear and little ability with playing their character.

    .

    That was so blunt and to the point I actually laughed in RL!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    The landscape areas of Middle Earth are designed for solo players with poor gear and little ability with playing their character.

    You are asking for Turbine to set aside part of the landscape for difficult content that can only be tackled by balanced well trained team. Turbine only does this kind of content within the instance system. If you believe forum posters, most instance content is easy content.

    I doubt we will get anything more complicated than the existing War Band system.
    Semi-rare mini warbands would be fine with me.

    When I was talking about enemies that counter our classes, they don't need to do it so well that they're impossible for Average Joe Solo. A little planning like "kill the mage one and then the archer ones," would probably be enough for people fighting same level enemies. Better players can go in under level and figure something out more complicated.

  5. #5
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    No thanks!
    I hated linked encounters in EQ2, because splitting up groups of mobs tactically is pretty much impossible then.
    One of the challenges for me always was monitoring enemy movement, and wait for the right time to pick them out in small groups or solo...
    If you have lots of linked-encounters that fun is gone.

    If you want to make the game harder just put mobs closer together in junctions or something.

  6. #6
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    Hi,

    To be fair they created LLG not that long ago and it was pretty packed with players for quite a long time. It was so popular amongst players i know i actually thought/hoped they would repeat it in Wildermoore...

    Would it really be that hard for the ultra-casuals to accept there is 4% of the landmass they can't handle on level to give people who like some harder content more fun things to do in this game? If so, this would sound a bit egoistic imho.

    I pay for content i never play when i buy expansions and with my VIP-account. I happily do this because i like Lotro to have content to enjoy for many different players. Is it really to much to ask for getting this favour in return from the ultra-casuals?

    Just put it in spaces no one needs to cross for the epics/storyline and let us who want's to take a beating. The OP's ideas for making a place like this harder are good. Let the bad guys have a chance for once!

    Regards
    /T
    Dawarad HNT | Dawadan MIN | Dawfast CMP | Dawaran CPT | Dawmur GRD | Dawared WRD | Dawagrim RK | Dawaras LM | Daweric BRG | Dawagar MIN | Dawarar CMP | Dawnakh WRG | Dawbag BA | Dawgil WVR | Dawglob WL |

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias_R View Post
    Would it really be that hard for the ultra-casuals to accept there is 4% of the landmass they can't handle on level to give people who like some harder content more fun things to do in this game? If so, this would sound a bit egoistic imho.
    Turbine does create these spaces. Limlight Gorge in Great River is one such example.

    Apparently most of the folks playing on the landscape are the solo want easy content folks. You do not get much space devoted for harder content. In Great River it is one area out of seven. There is part of one area in Endewaith - Thror's Combe. For Riders of Rohan it is Warbands. Some of the Warbands are dangerous. I do not know which one I encountered in Wildermore. That Warband killed off my level 83 Hunter even though I was passing thru to get the stable masters. First time I have been killed doing regular landscape content in a long time.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Turbine does create these spaces. Limlight Gorge in Great River is one such example.
    Holy Valar, yes. It's supposedly Level 75. Whh and I tried it and got creamed; came back later with our
    best characters at 85; barely squeaked through. Our other characters will wait till 95 to attempt it.

    Apparently most of the folks playing on the landscape are the solo want easy content folks. You do not get much space devoted for harder content. In Great River it is one area out of seven. There is part of one area in Endewaith - Thror's Combe. For Riders of Rohan it is Warbands. Some of the Warbands are dangerous.
    s/some/all

    I do not know which one I encountered in Wildermore. That Warband killed off my level 83 Hunter even though I was passing thru to get the stable masters. First time I have been killed doing regular landscape content in a long time.
    Could it have been that guy who hangs around the southern tip of the Balewood? Varg, or something like that?
    We spent entirely too much time dodging him. As far as I can tell, Warbands are not supposed to be
    duo-able, which makes them an [adjectival] nuisance when a duo is what you've got.

    But if you've got a great big fellowship and you love fighting, then they will undoubtedly be your meat.
    Or vice versa.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Turbine does create these spaces. Limlight Gorge in Great River is one such example.

    Apparently most of the folks playing on the landscape are the solo want easy content folks. You do not get much space devoted for harder content. In Great River it is one area out of seven. There is part of one area in Endewaith - Thror's Combe. For Riders of Rohan it is Warbands. Some of the Warbands are dangerous. I do not know which one I encountered in Wildermore. That Warband killed off my level 83 Hunter even though I was passing thru to get the stable masters. First time I have been killed doing regular landscape content in a long time.
    Yeah, I'm one of those solo want easy content folks. I never go into Limelight Gorge, but then again, I DO NOT ASK FOR IT TO BE MADE SOLO. I really and honestly hate people that demand that fellowship content be made solo. There is plenty of solo content for us, don't deprive the players that like group content of their fun.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Yeah, I'm one of those solo want easy content folks. I never go into Limelight Gorge, but then again, I DO NOT ASK FOR IT TO BE MADE SOLO. I really and honestly hate people that demand that fellowship content be made solo. There is plenty of solo content for us, don't deprive the players that like group content of their fun.
    Agreed. I probably will go back to Limlight Gorge at 95 when I've gotten bored with Helm's Deep sometime next year and the next expansion is not out yet. Go back to LLG with my crafted 95 gear and uber 3rd Age 95 LIs and leave pile of bodies in my wake. It's a fun alternative to plain slayer deed grinding.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Could it have been that guy who hangs around the southern tip of the Balewood? Varg, or something like that?
    We spent entirely too much time dodging him. As far as I can tell, Warbands are not supposed to be
    duo-able, which makes them an [adjectival] nuisance when a duo is what you've got.
    Depends on the class. Classes like Captain, Lore-master, Hunter, Minstrel and such can solo any Warband. Classes like Burglar will severely struggle.
    In fact it was the same back at Lv75 in Limlight Gorge you mentione earlier; some classes solo it, others don't.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Depends on the class. Classes like Captain, Lore-master, Hunter, Minstrel and such can solo any Warband. Classes like Burglar will severely struggle.
    In fact it was the same back at Lv75 in Limlight Gorge you mentione earlier; some classes solo it, others don't.

    If your ability to think, react, and interact with mechanics (so, if your ability to mentally and physically play the game) is insufficient to perform the intended roles of your characters in any given situation then your chances to succeed drop dramatically. Obviously.

    One such example of this could be two players 10+ levels higher than content they're attempting barely succeeding when 2 more skilled players (or just one alone) could complete the same content on-level without breaking a sweat.

    Another example could be someone being unable to beat a level 1 instance on a level 1 character which is built by design to be able to be completed by any character/class, somehow dying again and again while attempting something that is being completed simultaneously (not only by level 1's of every variety) by someone on a character with identical stats and skills with no trouble at all.

    These are extreme cases, IMO. The minority for sure.

    Saying overall, it depends on the player too, more than the class.
    Last edited by k3nn3th; Nov 16 2013 at 06:55 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k3nn3th View Post
    If your ability to think, react, and interact with mechanics (so, if your ability to mentally and physically play the game) is insufficient to perform the intended roles of your characters in any given situation then your chances to succeed drop dramatically. Obviously.

    One such example of this could be two players 10+ levels higher than content they're attempting barely succeeding when 2 more skilled players (or just one alone) could complete the same content on-level without breaking a sweat.

    Another example could be someone being unable to beat a level 1 instance on a level 1 character which is built by design to be able to be completed by any character/class, somehow dying again and again while attempting something that is being completed simultaneously (not only by level 1's of every variety) by someone on a character with identical stats and skills with no trouble at all.

    These are extreme cases, IMO. The minority for sure.

    Saying overall, it depends on the player too, more than the class.
    While it's certainly true that it depends on the player too, I don't think the aforementioned situations are extreme cases or even the minority. Most people I know can solo them, but then I don't know everyone. But to take a more extreme example; soloing on-level 6man instances is definitely only for the minority. It depends highly on both player and class.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  14. #14
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    Limelight was awesome. My hunter, yellow traited, could do the trolls and spiders solo, but I really had to work at it and plan well. Normally some ****wad would come by and "think" they were being helpful (either that or they really were just a ****) and break my fear or my trap and get me killed. My 85 captain can just run through there wiping the floor with everything though my hunter still struggles a bit with the trees due to their ranged attacks.

    I would love to see something like that in the future. I personally find warbands boring and uninteresting because they involve mounted combat. Basically all mounted combat involves is "ride in a circle hoping the lag doesn't kill you until you can burn down the warband bit by bit." Considering that every single class is basically just DPS when it comes to mounted combat, the sooner we get out of Rohan the better.
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  15. #15
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    ...imagine instead if Hunter was able to apply the same debuffs ranged with wound poison slow root as all the landscape archers seem to be able to...


 

 

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