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  1. #1

    Miscellaneous irks : Graphics glitches, quality, rendering and an old camera control oversight

    If there is official word on anything herein, please advise.


    Camera pan and turn control via mouse

    Currently the layout is as follows:

    First person
    Left Mouse while standing still = pan camera
    Left Mouse while in motion = turn character
    Right Mouse while standing still or in motion = turn character

    Third person
    Left Mouse while standing still or in motion = pan camera
    Right Mouse while standing still or in motion = turn character


    The main points of contention are that it's A) stopping us from panning in first person view while in motion B) it's inconsistent across the two different buttons and whether you're moving or not.
    Other games do it properly, Warcraft, FFXIV, FE etc and would be easily snuck in on a hotfix/upcoming patch.




    Field of View and Zoom

    Currently when you adjust the camera to third person, the field of view is set to what looks like around 60 degrees, I suspect this is considered default. When switching to first person, the view is increased, providing more 'real estate' on screen.
    I've yet to find anywhere that it's discussed on why they chose to do this, however my suspicion is that they decided what FOV they wanted as standard which is what you see in third person view. Then afterwards, considered that in order to make it easier to navigate while in first person, they would increase the view and give you the ability to see more on screen.
    While this if true, is a good idea and a welcome tactic, it doesn't answer the questions of why they've not made it equal in each view mode as an OPTION and why they do not allow that field of view to be adjusted(within reasonable parameters of course).


    Distant Imposters

    When I returned to the game I immediately noticed that the trees in the MID-RANGE distance were of particularly horrible resolution and quality to the point where that are clearly pixelated.
    I do not remember this being the case in the past.

    While it may be not noticeable on far distance trees, it certainly is in the mid range.

    A set of higher quality imposters for the nearer distance is sorely needed.


    DX10 landscape lighting

    With this enabled, the near to mid range textures are drawn similar to the long range and LOD. Additionally, all ground shadows (non DX10 shadows) are removed or reduced to being negligible.
    In these pictures we see the following:

    Red picture outline is the long range/LOD
    Green picture outline is the mid range

    Picture 1 (DX10 landscape lighting OFF) :

    Larger green circle highlights the style of rock texture and formation
    Larger red circle highlights the style of rock texture and formation LOD
    Small Red circle is a portion of the long range/lod grass texture that sits just inside the picture outline
    Small Green circle is a portion of the mid range grass texture


    Picture 2 (DX10 landscape lighting ON) :

    Larger green circle highlights the style of rock texture and formation
    Larger red circle highlights the style of rock texture and formation LOD
    Small Red circle is a portion of the long range/lod grass texture that sits just inside the picture outline
    Small Green circle is a portion of the mid range grass texture



    Notice in picture two, the rock formation texture has changed and now matches that of the one above it in the long range area of the landscape.
    Similarly, the grass texture highlighted in the smaller circles has also changed.


    I am unaware of whether this was a bug or as intended but it seems that using the DX10 lighting increases the detail of long range, yet then blankets the whole landscape, giving everything the LOD texture which is not ideal.
    Last edited by Ranebow; Nov 16 2013 at 06:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranebow View Post
    If there is official word on anything herein, please advise.


    Camera pan and turn control via mouse

    Currently the layout is as follows :

    First person
    Left Mouse [Turn character]
    Right Mouse [Turn character]

    Third person
    Left Mouse [Pan camera]
    Right Mouse [Turn Character]


    About once a year I've sent them feedback and asked for this to be fixed.
    Other games do it properly, Warcraft, FFXIV, FE etc and would be easily snuck in on a hotfix/upcoming patch.

    Hear, hear! I've also submitted a /bug about this.

    Just to be clear, we want to be able to look around while in First-Person view.
    I.e. the Left Mouse should still be Pan camera instead of Turn Character.

    Seems completely ridiculous that they've actually put in special code to prevent this.
    The only reason I can think of is there are some clipping/graphical problems in first-person that
    they didn't want to deal with -- e.g. bits of cape or helm obsuring the screen when looking left/right/back.

    Personally, I'd rather deal with that than not be able to look around. I love playing in first person with the UI hidden.
    LOTRO is a great game for immersion and with the Oculus Rift it could be an amazing game for it.
    Here's hoping they fix this.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by beorf View Post
    Hear, hear! I've also submitted a /bug about this.

    Just to be clear, we want to be able to look around while in First-Person view.
    I.e. the Left Mouse should still be Pan camera instead of Turn Character.

    Seems completely ridiculous that they've actually put in special code to prevent this.
    The only reason I can think of is there are some clipping/graphical problems in first-person that
    they didn't want to deal with -- e.g. bits of cape or helm obsuring the screen when looking left/right/back.

    Personally, I'd rather deal with that than not be able to look around. I love playing in first person with the UI hidden.
    LOTRO is a great game for immersion and with the Oculus Rift it could be an amazing game for it.
    Here's hoping they fix this.
    Yes we are discussing the same thing - panning in first person. Glad to see like minded individuals out there. Square Enix made the same mistake and fortunately after bringing it up enough during BETA, they snuck in a fix for retail launch. Now I can happily look to my sides as I move.
    Your theory would be false in that clipping would only exist if the texture being clipped was actually drawn. LOTRO does not use any body-point of view (e.g. you don't look down and see your legs or feet) and thus nothing is drawn when you are in first person.

    Probably just an old oversight and never got addressed.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    The change I would like to see with respect to mouse and camera control is: An option the DISABLE them entirely. I *don't* want the camera view to change just because I hit a mouse button. Not ever.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,063
    My minor pet peeve is the outside ramp leading up to the entrance to Thorin's Hall. It's never clear if it is actually a ramp or a poorly drawn set of steps. I'm at work so I cannot post a pic.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    [I][FONT=comic sans ms][COLOR=#ffff00]Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The change I would like to see with respect to mouse and camera control is: An option the DISABLE them entirely. I *don't* want the camera view to change just because I hit a mouse button. Not ever.

    More options is always welcome!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Middle Earth, Arda
    Posts
    3,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranebow View Post
    ... [Low Quality screenshots] ...
    My 1st impresion when i saw that screen shoot is: Why have this person set his graphics so low to take those pictures? I can give more objetives recomendations if i could see the high graphic or even the average graphics.
    Last edited by YamydeAragon; Nov 14 2013 at 05:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    My 1st impresion when i saw that screen shoot is: Why have this person set his graphics so low to take those pictures? I can give more objetives recomendations if i could see the high graphic or even the average graphics.
    Textures are on very high. There may be a slight pixelation because I artificially zoomed in when the screens were cropped - however the highlighted differences are clear. When you set the DX10 feature to an ON state, the mid range landscape is replaced by the long range LOD landscape textures.

  9. #9
    My personal opinion as always.

    In first person view you are seeing the situation thru your eyes. Pan camera has no meaning in first person view. The way some of the better games do it. Left mouse - Turns your head within the limitations of head rotation - That gives you perhaps 180 degrees - 90 degrees to each side. You want to see the rear 180 degrees - You have to turn around with the right mouse button. This head turning and character turning can be somewhat frustrating when combined. I can see whayTurbine disabled head turning.

    I believe Skyrim in first view is similar to Lotro's first view. Except in Skyrim you have the stupidity of walking around with your hands in front of your face.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    My personal opinion as always.

    In first person view you are seeing the situation thru your eyes. Pan camera has no meaning in first person view. The way some of the better games do it. Left mouse - Turns your head within the limitations of head rotation - That gives you perhaps 180 degrees - 90 degrees to each side. You want to see the rear 180 degrees - You have to turn around with the right mouse button. This head turning and character turning can be somewhat frustrating when combined. I can see whayTurbine disabled head turning.

    I believe Skyrim in first view is similar to Lotro's first view. Except in Skyrim you have the stupidity of walking around with your hands in front of your face.

    Appreciate your opinion.

    As for true POV and head turning - that would have been a great feature, however I do not see it being a problem. It's just a camera pan that has limited range of motion. The game already does the same thing when you're in third person - you pan with the left mouse button and still move your character fine with the keyboard.
    Remember that this all changes when in motion ; first person camera pans when standing still, but turns the character when moving; yet the third person camera button function is unaffected by movement. This further makes it seem like an oversight rather than a design concept.

    Skyrim is similar how? You only have your hands/weapons raised in front of you, when you're in combat stance. Otherwise they hang at your sides.
    Last edited by Ranebow; Nov 16 2013 at 06:25 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    My personal opinion as always.

    In first person view you are seeing the situation thru your eyes. Pan camera has no meaning in first person view.
    When I'm riding or walking, I like to look around at the scenery. I do this a lot in the game. It's probably my favourite thing.
    Without Pan Camera, there is no way to do that without actually riding to where you are looking. You can't just ride down the path
    and look around.

    (I've learned I can sort-of strafe diagonally to look around while riding which helps a bit. It probably looks funny to an observer to see a horse lurching
    sideways left and right as it is galloping, but since I'm in first-person view I don't see it.)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by beorf View Post
    When I'm riding or walking, I like to look around at the scenery. I do this a lot in the game. It's probably my favourite thing.
    Without Pan Camera, there is no way to do that without actually riding to where you are looking. You can't just ride down the path
    and look around.

    (I've learned I can sort-of strafe diagonally to look around while riding which helps a bit. It probably looks funny to an observer to see a horse lurching
    sideways left and right as it is galloping, but since I'm in first-person view I don't see it.)
    Aye exactly Beorf, you have to get creative with some straffe angling - though eventually it's prone to leave you flying off a ledge or running into mobs recklessly.


    It boggles my mind how developers miss this in so many games. Thank goodness companies like Square Enix listened to miscellaneous feedback in beta or else this feature would have been missed.

 

 

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