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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    State of Mac LOTRO Client for Helm's Deep?

    Now that the NDA has been lifted and not having the opportunity to beta test the Mac client can anyone confirm if the Mac client has actually been developed beyond the RoR beta client we have been effectively stuck with since pre 2012 launch (a few minor potential fixes aside)?

    It would be great to hear the Mac client got some love and attention to the missing features etc.

    I am especifically interested to know, now that Mavericks has improved OpenGL support (at last by Apple), whether any of the missing features or now available OpenGL features are supported in the Mac client.

    Finally, can you give some indication on comparison in terms of performance and stability in comparison to the existing Mac client, especially in the new areas and content (Helm's deep battles etc.)

    Thanks.
    Gaspard Strongpole - Hunter on Eldar : Mac Player - iMac/27-inch, Late 2013/ 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5/ 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3/ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB/OS X 10.10.5

  2. #2
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    Basically, from what I can tell, there have been some minor fixes, maybe.
    As I recall, fixing the /music /play command was the only documented one -- that now does work correctly.

    We'll have to wait for the U12 Release notes to see if they document anything else. But I won't hold my breath. During the beta, the release notes have been less than informative.

    As for stability. Hard to say exactly.
    Lately It has appeared to be more stable -- but I also shut-off ALL Luas in trying to identify what is happening.

    Basically, Mavericks DOES make a difference. For me, before with Mountain Lion, the Mac Client would simply go into never-never land... Freeze with the spinning beach ball that would not Force Quit. If I waited about 45 minutes + it would finally go away; otherwise I simply rebooted immediately ... much faster. Now under Mavericks, the time between the client Freeze and a real live dump window appearing is more like 45 second!

    The reason for playing with the Lua business -- ignoring Turbine's previous statement that they cause the crashes -- when I did the Beta 6 update, the update completed and I went to grab something to eat with the client sitting on enter Userid/Password. When I returned the client had crashed, with a dump implying a Lua Timer runout was involved. Now, granted, sitting there waiting for userid/password does (I believe) trigger a timer which will (or should) terminate the Client... so that may be all I was seeing, don't know.

    Other observations which may or may not be Mac related. I run with the default Graphics settings in the Mac Client (erase the .plist to get them). Things look quite good... but slightly slow... which can also be related to the fact that I've been stuck with a 2meg DSL line throughout the Beta!!!! (down from my old 20meg FIOS line.) When I login, especially, and when transferring LandBlocks (or other transitions) details "take forever" to appear.... but they do appear. I'm moving again next week and should be back to a 20meg Cable modem again, so we'll see.

    Some of that "delayed bloom" effect may also be Maverick's related. I keep finding "features" which Apple has implemented to "improve battery life" which SERIOUSLY impacts system performance! "Safari's "Stop plugins to save power" being a really nasty one. But I see other things like ... waiting for "System Preferences" to pop-up can take 15-30 seconds! And I'm talking about my iMac here, not a laptop.

    Mounted control is much improved in Beta 6, but that probably applies to all.

    As you can tell from another thread, the bloody non-working PMB downloader is still with us.

    So, in short... yes, I believe that the crashing is "less bad." I have gotten several multi-hour runs in since Beta 6 (Friday 8 November). The only "however" -- I have NOT participated in any of the Epic Battles. The queues in the beta have simply been ridiculous -- 15+ minutes to join SOLO instances. But then that is/was "stress testing," hopefully they have fixed that issue by now. The technology IS quite interesting and simply needs to be "scaled up" from what I can tell.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (106)
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    Basically, from what I can tell, there have been some minor fixes, maybe.
    As I recall, fixing the /music /play command was the only documented one -- that now does work correctly.

    We'll have to wait for the U12 Release notes to see if they document anything else. But I won't hold my breath. During the beta, the release notes have been less than informative.

    As for stability. Hard to say exactly.
    Lately It has appeared to be more stable -- but I also shut-off ALL Luas in trying to identify what is happening.

    Basically, Mavericks DOES make a difference. For me, before with Mountain Lion, the Mac Client would simply go into never-never land... Freeze with the spinning beach ball that would not Force Quit. If I waited about 45 minutes + it would finally go away; otherwise I simply rebooted immediately ... much faster. Now under Mavericks, the time between the client Freeze and a real live dump window appearing is more like 45 second!

    The reason for playing with the Lua business -- ignoring Turbine's previous statement that they cause the crashes -- when I did the Beta 6 update, the update completed and I went to grab something to eat with the client sitting on enter Userid/Password. When I returned the client had crashed, with a dump implying a Lua Timer runout was involved. Now, granted, sitting there waiting for userid/password does (I believe) trigger a timer which will (or should) terminate the Client... so that may be all I was seeing, don't know.

    Other observations which may or may not be Mac related. I run with the default Graphics settings in the Mac Client (erase the .plist to get them). Things look quite good... but slightly slow... which can also be related to the fact that I've been stuck with a 2meg DSL line throughout the Beta!!!! (down from my old 20meg FIOS line.) When I login, especially, and when transferring LandBlocks (or other transitions) details "take forever" to appear.... but they do appear. I'm moving again next week and should be back to a 20meg Cable modem again, so we'll see.

    Some of that "delayed bloom" effect may also be Maverick's related. I keep finding "features" which Apple has implemented to "improve battery life" which SERIOUSLY impacts system performance! "Safari's "Stop plugins to save power" being a really nasty one. But I see other things like ... waiting for "System Preferences" to pop-up can take 15-30 seconds! And I'm talking about my iMac here, not a laptop.

    Mounted control is much improved in Beta 6, but that probably applies to all.

    As you can tell from another thread, the bloody non-working PMB downloader is still with us.

    So, in short... yes, I believe that the crashing is "less bad." I have gotten several multi-hour runs in since Beta 6 (Friday 8 November). The only "however" -- I have NOT participated in any of the Epic Battles. The queues in the beta have simply been ridiculous -- 15+ minutes to join SOLO instances. But then that is/was "stress testing," hopefully they have fixed that issue by now. The technology IS quite interesting and simply needs to be "scaled up" from what I can tell.
    Thanks for the thorough response Valamar. Appreciated.

    I guess about what I expected. Nothing really that shows much hope for future development of the Mac client. A crying shame when you consider how many previously PC only games are porting to the Mac and most with at least commitment if not perfect results.

    Will be interesting to see the expansion notes.

    I will hold out to see what, if anything they do with player housing as I can't justify the cost of the new expansion from a Mac point of view (being playability, reliability and content for me)

    Apple still have some work to do on Mavericks to sort out the initial release bugs and issues which is normal for such a release. Hard to judge right now as I felt it was not ready for release really as it was though much is in fact OK.

    Thanks again for the feedback and keep the faith.
    Gaspard Strongpole - Hunter on Eldar : Mac Player - iMac/27-inch, Late 2013/ 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5/ 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3/ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB/OS X 10.10.5

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddlepip View Post
    I will hold out to see what, if anything they do with player housing as I can't justify the cost of the new expansion from a Mac point of view (being playability, reliability and content for me)

    Apple still have some work to do on Mavericks to sort out the initial release bugs and issues which is normal for such a release. Hard to judge right now as I felt it was not ready for release really as it was though much is in fact OK.
    There ARE significant changes coming to housing. They were specifically deferred until after the Helm's Deep release. (and still under ND)

    What is in HD (Update 12) is simply the integration of the Housing Chests from an independent system into the "vault system" i.e. "Game-mechanic" type change.
    * one chest instead of multiple ones - "standard vault" interface
    * 120 slots (although upgrade prices are (or were) "high" -- 100 MC per 10 slots; no in-game coin - in Beta)
    * but once purchased, the upgrade "sticks" across housing changes (abandonments and new house).
    * Escrow is automatically transferred into new chest --- no hassling with transfer from broker to pack to chest.

    Yes, Mavericks has some "interesting" quirks.

    One thing which I did notice during the "End of Beta" session -- I cranked graphics display distance up to Ultra High -- and never crashed in a 3+hour period!... despite the best efforts of multiple Balrogs (Durin's Bane variety), Thaurlachs and Dreadwoods on-screen at the same time!!!
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (106)
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    Valhad - Elf LM (66)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (87)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

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    Ninth - Man Warden (66)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
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  5. #5
    Unfortunately I'm still crashing in Bree just as much as ever (if not a little more).

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Totally unplayable. If I can even get to the point where I log in with my character before I crash, it's only to get a brief glimpse of Michel Delving and then crash to desktop.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by katespace77 View Post
    Totally unplayable. If I can even get to the point where I log in with my character before I crash, it's only to get a brief glimpse of Michel Delving and then crash to desktop.
    Lots of folks -- PC as well -- are reporting CD issues... as well as many weird graphics bugs.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (106)
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    Valkeeper - Elf RK (87)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (71)
    Valanne - Beorning (105)
    Ninth - Man Warden (66)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  8. #8
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    Massively CRASHZILLA in any of the newer engine areas. Completely unplayable in the HD region. I am crashing out consistently every time I get anywhere near a town. Up-time is probably 10 minutes tops. Same problem exists in all of Rohan as well as in Bree.

    Turbine needs to seriously recompile this game as 64-bit.

    I pre-purchased HD with the hopes that they would fix these issues in this update. But apparently not.

    Very frustrated with this game under the Mac client.

    I've ran this on our iMac under Win7 Boot Camp and it runs great. But our Mac Mini with XP has the exact same crash issues as the Mac version.

    Please please please give us a 64-bit recompile or a similar workaround that Win7/8 got.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWalla View Post
    Massively CRASHZILLA in any of the newer engine areas. Completely unplayable in the HD region. I am crashing out consistently every time I get anywhere near a town. Up-time is probably 10 minutes tops. Same problem exists in all of Rohan as well as in Bree.

    Turbine needs to seriously recompile this game as 64-bit.

    I pre-purchased HD with the hopes that they would fix these issues in this update. But apparently not.

    Very frustrated with this game under the Mac client.

    I've ran this on our iMac under Win7 Boot Camp and it runs great. But our Mac Mini with XP has the exact same crash issues as the Mac version.

    Please please please give us a 64-bit recompile or a similar workaround that Win7/8 got.
    Nothing is going to happen with the Mac client sadly except perhaps minor tweaks which can be done in house with non-Mac specific staff. This has been the case since even closed beta testing and unfortunately we see the reality 18 months down the line, despite some hollow promises from Turbine on continuing develop that has been proven unfounded.

    I can see no way that they would consider the expenditure on moving the Mac client from 32-bit to 64-bit. They are not even developing the mac client but using a port put together when optimism was higher and budgets were not pared back.

    The same old bugs, missing features and even the appalling Mac client download fiasco all remain (couple of minor exceptions such as music play and a graphics 'fix') in the client as released now in HD expansion.

    It is no surprise to see this, even though I still wish very much it was different having put in many hours trying to help the Mac community and eventually giving up because of the complete lack of developer interest or action. Without that type of self help which Valamar continues wonderfully, most Mac players would not even be able to use the Mac client which is a sorry place to be.

    With the increase in zones with higher graphics requirement/ load, it is not really a surprise that things are getting worse. Valamar did post some perhaps positive feedback but he is also running without lua etc. which is not going to be the case for most.

    This all comes of doom and gloom which is sad as I would love nothing more than to have seen an enthusiastic and genuine push to develop the Mac port of LOTRO being an IP I love. However, over time, the reality just reinforces the feeling that it is a dead end and I don't expect any movement until/ unless Turbine announce the continued contract of the IP (I mean official announcement of the fact not the usual hand offs) and there is funding and drive to take it to the next level.

    As ever I hope I am proved wrong and that Turbine do more than plaster over the cracks to keep it working.
    Gaspard Strongpole - Hunter on Eldar : Mac Player - iMac/27-inch, Late 2013/ 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5/ 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3/ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB/OS X 10.10.5

  10. #10
    I have been playing on my Mid-2010 27" iMac, I have not had any glaring issues with HD. I crashed one time heading into Edoras with my graphics on Ultra High. Turned them down to High, and i have not crashed since. I am optimistic only for the reason that for 5 years Turbine said they had no plans at all for the client coming to the Mac, and then they did.

  11. #11
    I would say that it crashes on par with the previous release (every 10-40 minutes).

  12. #12
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    I will test HD briefly with my hunter on the weekend and then go back to my elven warrior or probably start a complete new character. It's nice to have new content, but i'm not really motivated to play my main at the moment. From what i understood the Mac client has no voice in the Players council, so important changes to the client cannot be expected anytime soon, if ever.
    **Lifetime VIP Player**
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  13. #13
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    The release notes for the hotfix state, that they did something to fix the rendering issues on the Mac client. Couldn't believe my eyes, that we were actually mentioned in that damn thing. We will see, if that has an impact on our crashing issues. Rejoice?
    **Lifetime VIP Player**
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by padraxus View Post
    The release notes for the hotfix state, that they did something to fix the rendering issues on the Mac client. [...] Rejoice?
    Heh, I sure hope so. I was actually doing really well with my Graphics Engine set to "Very Low" and all my Graphics set to "Very Low" yesterday (typical response to a trouble ticket) at ~350 FPS outside of towns. Pretty sad for an Intel i7 and a 1 GB discrete GFX Card to need those settings to run for more than an hour.

    By the way, I think Valamar is on the players council. He is our Mac client Knight

  15. #15
    Mac Client – Many Rendering issues on the Mac have been resolved.
    Fixed a client crash that would occur on 32-bit Operating Systems.

    These 2 items sparked my interest. The top one for very obvious reasons. But the second one im a little more curious about. It seems odd there would be an issue with a 32bit client on a 32bit OS. I could see more of an issue with a 32bit client on a 64bit OS. Is the client all-around 32bit for all users?

    Has anyone seen if the version of Awesomium has been updated on the Mac client? I remember that being a problem with the memory leaks before.

  16. #16
    Has any Mac users been in yet to test the lastest updates for the Mac Client? I would be a very happy if the fix actually worked. As of now I, like most mac users, suffer from crashes every 45-90 minutes, more so in Bree and Rohan. I have not been able to raid with my kinnies becuase I get the famous memory leak crash everytime I try and run a 6 or 12 man raid, 3 mans seem to run ok for me.

    I have a 27' 2011 imac, 16g mem, 2TB hard drive

  17. #17
    I have not been home since the patch...i am curious about the amount of crashing people are seeing. I really dont run into that many crashes. I may run into 1 here and there if i play for hours. I raid plenty and stream most of my sessions. If anything I would think streaming and raiding would murder my card, and yet it runs fine.

  18. #18
    Yep, same ole garbage. Crashes in Thorenhead running 128 FPS with 1.28 VRam being used. Not like it is getting taxed. That was running Default Graphics, Default Adv. Graphics, Default Troubleshooting (Game Engine).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneSHADOW View Post
    Mac Client – Many Rendering issues on the Mac have been resolved.
    Fixed a client crash that would occur on 32-bit Operating Systems.

    So sad. Nothing changed. Still the same crashes....
    I have no more words. I'm totaly disappointed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneSHADOW View Post
    I have not been home since the patch...i am curious about the amount of crashing people are seeing. I really dont run into that many crashes. I may run into 1 here and there if i play for hours. I raid plenty and stream most of my sessions. If anything I would think streaming and raiding would murder my card, and yet it runs fine.
    I have just moved to a new home, and consequently have "lots of problems" outside of LOTRO meaning, I have not been on-line for any length of time since the end of the Beta.

    During Beta 6 (last 10 days) of the Beta, I found that things were surprisingly stable. I had run several 4 and 6 hour sessions in West Rohan.

    The one "quirk" I have noticed -- there is a "timer problem."

    I believe it has to do with the AFK timer. I haven't explored it fully, but I have had a couple of situations, where I had been running fine for some time, went away to get food or talk on the phone, and came back to find that the client had crashed and dumped. I.e. Just sitting there doing "nothing."

    I'm hoping I can get my boxes unpacked by this weekend so I can get back in-game regularly.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (106)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (71)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (115)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (66)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (87)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (71)
    Valanne - Beorning (105)
    Ninth - Man Warden (66)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    During Beta 6 (last 10 days) of the Beta, I found that things were surprisingly stable. I had run several 4 and 6 hour sessions in West Rohan.
    I'm sorry but my experiences are that the game runs about 45 minutes, sometimes up to 60 in middle resolution. No problems. And then, out of nothing - crash.
    I tried it also like standing around as you said (afk), in old areas and the new ones: same.

    I have a brandnew imac 27 inch, so the hardware couldnt be the problem.
    Running in VERY LOW graphics all fine and stable. Just setting the graphics to LOW brings the system down like i said above.
    I really enjoy playing in high, brings the full atmosphare to me, but im still pissed off launching the client every hour after the crashs.

    And by the way: How long will turbine let the status of the mac client at BETA? Can i expect a final mac client in 3 or 4 years, just before the launch to Mordor?
    Guys, im so disappointed, i cant tell you.

  22. #22
    I uninstalled the Mac client for LOTRO months ago because my hard drive was dangerously close to full. I finally reinstalled it a couple of weeks ago after adding a new hard drive. I noticed that the graphics quality had improved compared to before. In particular, I no longer suffered building glitches in Bree, which was a reliable problem I had. So I have seen a significant improvement and have been playing LOTRO much more as a result.

    I didn't have particular problems in Rohan or Wildermore, but I have a Mac tower, so my specs are solid.
    "I am dreading the publication, for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." (J.R.R. Tolkien)

  23. #23
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    I had the chance to test HD this evening and the results are interesting and they are bad.

    Questing and killing mobs lasts for around 30-45 minutes (which i could live with), but EVERY travel screen (quick travel by mithril/skill/quest/whatever) crashes to desktop. At this point i'm 13 out of 13. A complete motivation killer.

    Since i kinda like the new trait system i'm tempted to start a new character or resume one of my two alts (dwarf guardian + elf female champion) that are both weeks away of playing time from Rohan and HD.

    After 6 years of LOTRO i still enjoy the game from level 1 on, peaking with the end of Moria.

    Going back to Bootcamp and hope for a more stable LOTRO isn't an option.
    **Lifetime VIP Player**
    Hope dies last, but it dies.

  24. #24

    Crashes

    Just treated myself to a new iMac. Was using a Mac Pro before that. With the old machine (quad core 2.66 GHz Xeon, 16 GB RAM) I had very, very few crashes. I don't think I'd been in Bree since the HD Update but I'd certainly been involved in fun and games in Rohan.

    With the new iMac (3.5 GHz i7, 24 GB RAM) I am experiencing the same kind of problems listed in this thread. Both machines are running Mavericks. I've turned down textures to Medium and that has helped somewhat.

    It would be good if we could have some official response to this but I'm new to the forums and maybe that's not the way it works?

    Boot Camp has proven to be a problem. I have 3TB Fusion Drive. Boot Camp Assistant crashed out when trying to install Windows 7 and the drive became a mess. This seems to be a problem for some Mac owners. Luckily my Mac Store managed to restore the drive to normal.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottymon View Post
    Just treated myself to a new iMac. Was using a Mac Pro before that. With the old machine (quad core 2.66 GHz Xeon, 16 GB RAM) I had very, very few crashes. I don't think I'd been in Bree since the HD Update but I'd certainly been involved in fun and games in Rohan.

    With the new iMac (3.5 GHz i7, 24 GB RAM) I am experiencing the same kind of problems listed in this thread. Both machines are running Mavericks. I've turned down textures to Medium and that has helped somewhat.

    It would be good if we could have some official response to this but I'm new to the forums and maybe that's not the way it works?

    Boot Camp has proven to be a problem. I have 3TB Fusion Drive. Boot Camp Assistant crashed out when trying to install Windows 7 and the drive became a mess. This seems to be a problem for some Mac owners. Luckily my Mac Store managed to restore the drive to normal.
    The basic question is -- how did you "upgrade" to your new iMac.

    "leftover cruft" (3rd party apps) from earlier releases of OS X are deadly. Especially various multi-media type apps. A tool called "EntreCheck" is very useful for identifying problem areas... it basically reformats the System report into a "readable" format. Look at the sections starting with "Kernel Extensions" -- you'll have to search for it's source to download it, France as I recall.


    My System:
    27 inch iMac Intel (mid 2010)
    Model: iMac11,3
    Processor: 2.93 GHz Intel Core i7
    Memory: 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
    Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5750 1024 MB
    Display: 27-inch (2560 x 1440)
    Software: Mac OS X Mountain Lion OS X 10.9

    I have actually run 4-6 hours in East Rohan during Beta 6, with no problems.
    I#physically moved just before the Launch and am just now getting back on-line, so I haven't run since 12.0.1
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (106)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (71)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (115)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (66)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (87)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (71)
    Valanne - Beorning (105)
    Ninth - Man Warden (66)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


 

 
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