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  1. #1
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    Forced Emotes - just remove them

    People were unhappy before we had an off toggle for them - apparently people are still unhappy with them now, because they can't *get back at* people who toss them with their toggle off. It's all just a mess, and silly and juvenile in the extreme - please just get rid of the things, ty. Or make it so that they only counted for deeds on people who do not have the immunity on.
    Last edited by Zoraine; Nov 11 2013 at 06:51 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraine View Post
    People were unhappy before we had an off toggle for them - apparently people are still unhappy with them now, because they can't *get back at* people who toss them with their toggle off. It's all just a mess, and silly and juvenile in the extreme - please just get rid of the things, ty.
    Agreed. This is really just getting ridiculous. I understand people being angry about the ones that mess up something you are trying to do, but for others? Someone just needs to be the bigger person.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraine View Post
    People were unhappy before we had an off toggle for them - apparently people are still unhappy with them now, because they can't *get back at* people who toss them with their toggle off. It's all just a mess, and silly and juvenile in the extreme - please just get rid of the things, ty.
    Give 'em to the creeps, clearly it takes mature people to handle the massive responsibility!
    [IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/547875_10152075720742701_46971757_n.jpg[/IMG]
    66 Maggot Street, Grothum, Arador's End, Ettenmoors.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by poxnoxious View Post
    Give 'em to the creeps, clearly it takes mature people to handle the massive responsibility!
    Would you creep folk promise to not to whine about them? Then I would gladly mail you all the little items I don't use, for sure! (Well, if I could ;-p) Have at it!
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  5. #5
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    I think we should just make it so if you can't have a forced emote ON you you can't USE them, also make it so if you have the 'forced emotes' off instead of a immune affect it just says "You can not use the item on him/her" and no affects no consumable used, I hate it when I have something with a 5min cool down and they have forced emotes off so I just wasted a fun item!
    I understand some are annoying, but why should us peep that like them suffer because they don't like being forced to sneeze or get haunted.

    I see both sides to this...but I think there's a better way then just taking them out all in all...

  6. #6
    No no no no no no no no. No. A toggle option was given, use it. If you actually toggled it on, people wouldn't be able to use forced emotes on you, and there would be no reason why you would want to use it back on them.

    I hate to be this blunt right now, to those people who are still complaining, shut up. Please. We've heard enough.

  7. #7
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    I think we should just make it so if you can't have a forced emote ON you you can't USE them, also make it so if you have the 'forced emotes' off instead of a immune affect it just says "You can not use the item on him/her" and no affects no consumable used, I hate it when I have something with a 5min cool down and they have forced emotes off so I just wasted a fun item!
    I understand some are annoying, but why should us peep that like them suffer because they don't like being forced to sneeze or get haunted.

    I see both sides to this...but I think there's a better way then just taking them out all in all...
    Do I correctly deduce from what you wrote that your interest in the forced emote consumables has little to do with completing the deed, and quite a bit to do with wanting the affect another players character for your own "amusement"?

  8. #8
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    Jun 2011
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    Please, can't we leave this poor animal alone?

  9. #9
    I actually like them, so I hope that they stay...and expand.

    Regarding the toggle, I tend to agree; if you have the toggle on, you shouldn't be able to use them on others.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2010
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    491
    Quote Originally Posted by Brom_Ironfist View Post
    if you have the toggle on, you shouldn't be able to use them on others.
    Agreed, it's a simple answer and I'm a bit surprised that they didn't do it this way in the first place.

    Or else the other option is that if you use a forced emote, you have your immunity turned off for X seconds. I'd actually prefer that option, because then people could take part in the game, without having to toggle something off, and then remember to toggle it back on latter.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000023bdbd/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solarfox View Post
    Agreed, it's a simple answer and I'm a bit surprised that they didn't do it this way in the first place.

    Or else the other option is that if you use a forced emote, you have your immunity turned off for X seconds. I'd actually prefer that option, because then people could take part in the game, without having to toggle something off, and then remember to toggle it back on latter.
    Having made the first mistake of putting forced emotes into the game, then compounding that with forced emote deeds, followed by some fairly intense pressure from players to do something about the dead obvious problems that ensued, my best guess is that Turbine cast about for a way to get out of the mess that (a) didn't cause another Forum firestorm (such as removing forced emotes from the game) and (b) was as cheap as possible to implement and test. What we have is the result of that effort. It solves a good 95% of the problems even if it annoys some people (and that annoyance doesn't appear to be nearly as severe as that which caused Turbine to implement the "opt out" in the first place). At this point, I think Turbine considers this to be "solved problem" and they have moved on to work on other issues.

    Do I support some fine tuning, such as has been asked for? Yes. Do I support complete removal? Sort of. While I would be perfectly happy to see forced emotes removed, I am well aware that there are people that like them and I see no benefit in creating more angry people on the Forums. Do I *expect* any changes in this area? No.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    I hate it when I have something with a 5min cool down and they have forced emotes off so I just wasted a fun item!
    I understand some are annoying, but why should us peep that like them suffer because they don't like being forced to sneeze or get haunted.
    Really, people, just how often does it have to be repeated that you DON'T "waste" the items if your target is immune? It does count towards your precious deeds, alright? There is no "suffering" on your side involved, at all.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Do I *expect* any changes in this area? No.
    Well if the only time I posted on a suggestion thread, I thought the change was likely to happen... I'd have a much, much smaller post count.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000023bdbd/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU View Post
    Really, people, just how often does it have to be repeated that you DON'T "waste" the items if your target is immune? It does count towards your precious deeds, alright? There is no "suffering" on your side involved, at all.

    SNy
    It very much depends on his motivation for using the forced emote consumable. If all he's doing is working on a deed, then you are correct: It doesn't matter. On the other had, if he's doing out a desire to see the effect take on another character, then it does matter. One might question whether, in the latter case, if he is one of the people that sparked the original efforts to get the forced emote "opt out" in the first place.

  15. #15
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    Given the considerable angst that took place over the span of a few years to even get the toggle in I find it highly unlikely that anymore is going to be done in this area. There is a toggle, that should suffice to eliminate any negative impact someone else is having on you, like the ignore feature.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Do I correctly deduce from what you wrote that your interest in the forced emote consumables has little to do with completing the deed, and quite a bit to do with wanting the affect another players character for your own "amusement"?
    You wrote it as if there's something wrong with that. They are prank items, they are meant to be amusing. The deed part is actually the part that i don't really get. Slap someone 300 times to be able to slap someone without consumables?

    Don't get rid of the prank items, just give people who don't like these pranks / got tired of them an option to stay out completely.
    Last edited by Geldeger; Nov 12 2013 at 07:20 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Do I correctly deduce from what you wrote that your interest in the forced emote consumables has little to do with completing the deed, and quite a bit to do with wanting the affect another players character for your own "amusement"?
    They're for amusement, not the deed, because when the deed is finished the reward is a skill for the item.
    I find them hilarious to both use on others and have used on me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    You wrote it as if there's something wrong with that. They are prank items, they are meant to be amusing. The deed part is actually the part that i don't really get. Slap someone 300 times to be able to slap someone without consumables?

    Don't get rid of the prank items, just give people who don't like these pranks / got tired of them an option to stay out completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    They're for amusement, not the deed, because when the deed is finished the reward is a skill for the item.
    I find them hilarious to both use on others and have used on me.
    This issue was hashed over extensively on the threads calling for the "opt out" originally. What it comes down is that some people like to use forced emotes on other people that don't like being targeted. *If* the user cannot take the time to determine if he has a willing target, *then* the unwilling targets are going to go to Turbine and demand that something be done about it, whether that is GM actions, an "opt out" control, or just palin removing forced emotes from the game. Turbine chose the have the GMs do nothing in response to complaints. After two years of uproar on the Forums, they implemented the "opt out".

    If either of you thinks it is wasting a resource to use a forced emote on a character that is immune to them, then we are back to one of the original suggestions: *Ask* your chosen target if they mind being a target of a forced emote and don't fire one at anyone who doesn't respond or responds declining the "opportunity". Failing that, not only are you going to find yourself "wasting" forced emotes on immune targets, but you are likely to induce even more people to set the flag to be immune over time.

  19. #19
    In my opinion, "Immune" is a beautiful word.

    Some guy recently said in ooc that folks who have the toggle set to off are really lame. To which I said, "Thank you."

    Hehehehe
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  20. #20
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    If you are toggled off and someone tries to force emote you, do any notifications come up? I'm just asking because i've been toggled off since day one and haven't any issues with anyone since.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    If you are toggled off and someone tries to force emote you, do any notifications come up? I'm just asking because i've been toggled off since day one and haven't any issues with anyone since.
    There will be a line in the combat log about the attempt, and "Immune" will float over the character's head briefly.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    This issue was hashed over extensively on the threads calling for the "opt out" originally. What it comes down is that some people like to use forced emotes on other people that don't like being targeted. *If* the user cannot take the time to determine if he has a willing target, *then* the unwilling targets are going to go to Turbine and demand that something be done about it, whether that is GM actions, an "opt out" control, or just palin removing forced emotes from the game. Turbine chose the have the GMs do nothing in response to complaints. After two years of uproar on the Forums, they implemented the "opt out".

    If either of you thinks it is wasting a resource to use a forced emote on a character that is immune to them, then we are back to one of the original suggestions: *Ask* your chosen target if they mind being a target of a forced emote and don't fire one at anyone who doesn't respond or responds declining the "opportunity". Failing that, not only are you going to find yourself "wasting" forced emotes on immune targets, but you are likely to induce even more people to set the flag to be immune over time.
    I don't care about wasting prank items, I actually just found out that people can toggle immunity in this thread. I was wondering why some people are immune. I joined the game a month ago and found these pranks pretty hilarious. I didn't know that some people are upset about it either, until i saw this thread. I like it, my kinmates like it, I'm waiting for the next festival. First time I hear about problems.

    I can understand that people would get bored by them eventually. But immunity seems like a fine solution. What's wrong with people toggling full immunity where they can't use pranks, others can't use pranks on them (and if they try, they get an error message and item remains intact)? Those are all entirely reasonable suggestions IMO, and more realistic than asking Turbine to scratch the whole system.

    As for people asking permission to use these pranks, that doesn't seem realistic. Not to mention it's pointless since it would no longer be a prank.

    Your point seems more like generic "Turbine doesn't fix things quickly, so stop posting ideas" rather than "there's something wrong with your ideas." Which is fair enough, but it's a player suggestions forum, so... we'll keep posting.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    I don't care about wasting prank items, I actually just found out that people can toggle immunity in this thread. I was wondering why some people are immune. I joined the game a month ago and found these pranks pretty hilarious. I didn't know that some people are upset about it either, until i saw this thread. I like it, my kinmates like it, I'm waiting for the next festival. First time I hear about problems.
    The forced emotes are the sort of thing Heinlein described in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress as "funny once". The problems lie in the fact that those who like them don't use them just once. Around the time forced emotes were added as items with an attached deed, there were people that--no surprise here--found ways to abuse them.

    I can understand that people would get bored by them eventually. But immunity seems like a fine solution. What's wrong with people toggling full immunity where they can't use pranks, others can't use pranks on them (and if they try, they get an error message and item remains intact)? Those are all entirely reasonable suggestions IMO, and more realistic than asking Turbine to scratch the whole system.
    There was a two year campaign the get Turbine to *something* about the abuse of forced emotes. Most people agreed that--to be fair to as many people as possible--that something should be an "opt out", and that's what we got. It's not quite a "full" immunity, but it is close. There are one or two forced emotes that get still affect people because they are area effects, not single target.

    What people are objecting to at this point is that a person who has immunity to forced emotes can still use them on others. For those that never use forced emotes, this isn't a problem. For those that never set themselves immune, this *shouldn't* be a problem, but some people see it as one on the grounds that anyone who uses a forced emote should also be subject to forced emotes. I can see their point, even though it does not now and never will affect me, but I can also see the unstated attitude of Turbine that they have implemented a *reasonably* complete fix to the initial problem and aren't going to spend money any time in the foreseeable future to rework it to clean up a few edge cases.

    As for people asking permission to use these pranks, that doesn't seem realistic. Not to mention it's pointless since it would no longer be a prank.
    Which would you rather do...ask permission and remove any spontaneity, or get yourself on someones /ignore list?

    Your point seems more like generic "Turbine doesn't fix things quickly, so stop posting ideas" rather than "there's something wrong with your ideas." Which is fair enough, but it's a player suggestions forum, so... we'll keep posting.
    I haven't stated either in this thread. While it's true that it often takes a long time for Turbine to fix something, that isn't a reason not to post a suggestion. Rather, it's a reason to be persistent and to make cogent points in favor of your idea in hopes of winning over others. Actually, I do urge you to keep posting ideas, but I also urge you to temper the idea of posting by doing a bit of research before posting to try to determine what has been said about a particular idea (if anything) previously, and if the idea seems really obvious, check to see if it has a "history" that should be looked over before posting.

    The other--very--good thing to do with any idea is to think about it carefully and consider if it has any downsides or any loopholes that could be exploited to harm the game or grief other players.

    Beyond that, reflect upon Sturgeon's Law to try to be certain which part of it applies to your idea.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraine View Post
    People were unhappy before we had an off toggle for them - apparently people are still unhappy with them now, because they can't *get back at* people who toss them with their toggle off. It's all just a mess, and silly and juvenile in the extreme - please just get rid of the things, ty. Or make it so that they only counted for deeds on people who do not have the immunity on.
    First, let me say this, I'm am so thankful for the opt-out button! It got so annoying being set on fire, kissing the dirt or having a green fog surround me (repeatedly) or whatever the other 1's are, when trying to do the dance quests or while fishing at the those festivals. My guess is that those that are annoyed by people being immune, haven't been tortured enough yet to get them to the point of using the button themselves.

    I don't use those forced emotes on anybody. I find it rather humorous to see some 1 try to sneak up and use them while you're just standing somewhere minding your own business, and then see the immune thingie over my head.

    Why not just make it so that the person that wants to infringe thier annoyances on others, be blocked from using them on immune players, and not waste 1 of thier precious emotes.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The forced emotes are the sort of thing Heinlein described in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress as "funny once". The problems lie in the fact that those who like them don't use them just once. Around the time forced emotes were added as items with an attached deed, there were people that--no surprise here--found ways to abuse them.



    There was a two year campaign the get Turbine to *something* about the abuse of forced emotes. Most people agreed that--to be fair to as many people as possible--that something should be an "opt out", and that's what we got. It's not quite a "full" immunity, but it is close. There are one or two forced emotes that get still affect people because they are area effects, not single target.

    What people are objecting to at this point is that a person who has immunity to forced emotes can still use them on others. For those that never use forced emotes, this isn't a problem. For those that never set themselves immune, this *shouldn't* be a problem, but some people see it as one on the grounds that anyone who uses a forced emote should also be subject to forced emotes. I can see their point, even though it does not now and never will affect me, but I can also see the unstated attitude of Turbine that they have implemented a *reasonably* complete fix to the initial problem and aren't going to spend money any time in the foreseeable future to rework it to clean up a few edge cases.



    Which would you rather do...ask permission and remove any spontaneity, or get yourself on someones /ignore list?



    I haven't stated either in this thread. While it's true that it often takes a long time for Turbine to fix something, that isn't a reason not to post a suggestion. Rather, it's a reason to be persistent and to make cogent points in favor of your idea in hopes of winning over others. Actually, I do urge you to keep posting ideas, but I also urge you to temper the idea of posting by doing a bit of research before posting to try to determine what has been said about a particular idea (if anything) previously, and if the idea seems really obvious, check to see if it has a "history" that should be looked over before posting.

    The other--very--good thing to do with any idea is to think about it carefully and consider if it has any downsides or any loopholes that could be exploited to harm the game or grief other players.

    Beyond that, reflect upon Sturgeon's Law to try to be certain which part of it applies to your idea.
    I haven't run into similar situations and it sounds rather theoretical / unrealistic. It might be a server thing, though. I hear server communities are very different. I'm on Gladden, and so far most people are very mature and relaxed.

    PS: I think (hope) you mean well, but come on, hehe. Those last few paragraphs are rather patronizing. And I don't think my ideas were that terrible that I should be told to "reflect upon Sturgeon's Law." It's in poor taste to just imply that someone is saying something silly, and leave it at that.

 

 
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