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  1. #1

    Post-HD Captain Soloability/DPS

    First, I'll start off by saying that I am an almost exclusively solo quester. I currently have an 85 champ and 75 guard that will probably sit idle for the foreseeable future. I've got the itch to start from scratch again, and one of the virtually unused alts I have sitting around from my VIP days is a Captain. I also have a warden, but I'm leaning towards the Cappy because the gambit system doesn't really appeal to me. My question is implied in the title, but post-HD will leveling be improved on the Captain relative to live? I have read that the Captain is one of the slowest classes to level due to low DPS, but how will that look post trait trees? I know this game is fully soloable with any class, but would like to hear some Captain-specific opinions. Thanks.
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  2. #2
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    The DPS should be increased a bit, though you may notice slightly more boring play (though this may be true for all classes now, since the reason I say this is because everyone has less skills they can hit). But basically, yeah, should be a bit faster than it currently is.
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  3. #3
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    Now that we have proper LI support for our DPS traits, we are able to have DPS not seen since pre-wepon normalization.

    When combined with enough traits from the LoM tree, there's a lot to consider when you want to do a DPS/survivability build, which is very good for both landscape and PvMP
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  4. #4
    I have a lvl 53 Captain and I do not believe its a slow leveling process.
    If the Captain is to have an increase in DPS, I feel that's much needed welcome.
    I have no problem soloing, as i have done everything solo.
    That being said... I'm not overly ambitious with mobs.

  5. #5
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I've been on both sides of the spectrum. My guardian was very slow to level, but virtually indestructible. My champ on the other hand, was incredibly fast, but I found myself biting off more than I could chew from time to time. Sounds like the revised Captain will fall somewhere in the middle so I'll give it a run and see how I like it.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidnova78 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I've been on both sides of the spectrum. My guardian was very slow to level, but virtually indestructible. My champ on the other hand, was incredibly fast, but I found myself biting off more than I could chew from time to time. Sounds like the revised Captain will fall somewhere in the middle so I'll give it a run and see how I like it.
    Currently it's right around the guardian, it's almost as indestructible (though you can still bite off more than you can chew if you get impatient). Afterwards, not only is DPS going up (we have yet to see how much in comparison to landscape mobs and the other classes, but it's definitely improved) but survivability at lower levels should also go up tremendously, at least in part due to Rallying Cry dropping 30 seconds off its cooldown with no LI and able to be used without a defeat response in case of an emergency.
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  7. #7
    This is good to know - was soloing my Captain last night in Evendim after a long break. I was playing him loose rather than tight (pulling with shouts, not always making sure I had a mark on) but even so he was dying in battles with 3+ mobs that my Champion would have face rolled. I felt impelled to come to the Captain forum so I could L2P - quicker rallying cries will be a big deal.

    Obviously pre HD lessons will be of limited utility. I do feel I was not playing patiently enough and maximising herald use.

    I'm currently planning to have my solo spec red and my group spec as healer. I take it that is the general consensus for survivavbility/solo content?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjutsu View Post
    This is good to know - was soloing my Captain last night in Evendim after a long break. I was playing him loose rather than tight (pulling with shouts, not always making sure I had a mark on) but even so he was dying in battles with 3+ mobs that my Champion would have face rolled. I felt impelled to come to the Captain forum so I could L2P - quicker rallying cries will be a big deal.

    Obviously pre HD lessons will be of limited utility. I do feel I was not playing patiently enough and maximising herald use.

    I'm currently planning to have my solo spec red and my group spec as healer. I take it that is the general consensus for survivavbility/solo content?
    The difference between Champion and Captain in RoR soloing is that Champions are born to take on 3+ targets with their AoE damage where Captains are very weak in regards to AoE. With Helms Deep, I think you'll be having more access to Pressing Attack because you can get Battle-ready from both Battle-shout and Shadows Lament. On top of that, if you get crits on Pressing Attack you'll get extra damage on Routing Cry, again allowing for more AoE DPS. The lower cooldown on Routing Cry will make this scenario available more often.
    Lastly, the standard will supply a good bit of burst AoE as well, though you probably won't get that until Moria or even after that.

    It's not going to make Captains the new Champions, but I think it will help out a lot when it comes to handling 3 mobs or more. However, the access to Revealing Mark will be extremely limited in LtC at lower levels, as it will cost you 12 points to get it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjutsu View Post
    I'm currently planning to have my solo spec red and my group spec as healer. I take it that is the general consensus for survivavbility/solo content?
    My post-HD solo spec will be Red with a little Yellow. Telling Mark isn't too useful when soloing, but Noble Mark has a pretty substantial self-healing ability attached to it that helps with both single-mob and multi-mob pulls. The extra Morale or Evade doesn't hurt, either.

    As for group specs, I honestly believe any of the three lines can be viable. LoM is less general-purpose than the other two, so I don't think I'd take it unless the instance called for an off-tank. The choice between Red and Blue comes down to group makeup and the nature of the content.

    As on Live, Blue is probably going to be the spec of choice for challenge runs, for (I think) obvious reasons. Blue will also be really appealing if you have a lot of clothy DPSers, like LMs and RKs. Or even if you just have a Minstrel who wants an excuse to try out the Protector of Song line. :P For DPS race content or if you're packing a lot of non-squishy DPS, i.e. Champs, who don't usually need extra heals, Red will increase your group's damage output tremendously while still providing solid background heals.

    If you want to maintain exactly two trait layouts and not mess with them too much, I recommend these. They assume you're at level cap, which is why I say to invest your off-spec points first. If you're not, I recommend investing in your primary spec at least until the capstone before you invest off-spec.

    LtC Spec for solo/group: Take HoH traits until you reach Revealing Mark or, if desired, Gallant Display. Put the rest into the LtC line, making sure to get Fellowship of the Blade and Oathbreaker's Shame as well as all the crit traits. If you feel too squishy, move a couple of points from LtC to the Morale trait in LoM.

    HoH Spec for groups: Take LoM traits until you reach In Harm's Way. Put the rest into the HoH line at least until you reach the trait whose name I can't remember that adds a power restore to Rallying Cry. The other top-tier traits are optional. I personally feel that Reform the Lines! is worth taking because healing 30% of everyone's max morale in 10s can absolutely turn around a fight. But if you're in a group as a support Cappy and not a main healer, you may prefer to save those last few points and put them into LtC for more DPS instead.

    (You can solo just fine in an HoH spec, especially if you take the trait for the Muster Courage heal, but LtC will feel faster.)
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  10. #10
    Thanks for the advice. My captain is only 37, and I have a Champion and a Guardian that will be my go to's for when the kin/group needs a tank. I'm not a massive fan of being a healer , and it is unlikely I will often be doing more than fellowship content, but it gives me the option of filling a slot.

    I'll experiment with builds as I level. I'm finding I really have to work at being challenged on my Guardian and Champion - with my Captain, I need to up my game! My gear is ok - on level critted, and at 40 I will have Guild teal armour and jewels to wear.

    Looks like Red with possibly a splash of yellow then.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Actually, your entire world with captaining is about to be rocked.

    I would advise you to experiment on the way up.

    Also keep in mind that the reason we use heralds solo is because of the X-Brother mechanic.

    Unless this changed, I would click and drag the green skill to your hot bars (so you have better control over the herald heal and archer evade), right click the yellow and red skills until their border changes to a dotted line (which puts them in auto mode).

    Also put the herald into passive and turn assist on.

    If you want to full micro with the herald, click and drag attack and stop to your main bars, and turn assist off.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #12
    Of course with the changes yet to be played with I do not know. But I will state I have an 82 (been working alot during Rohan haha heck I'm a beta tester life account) Captain that I can regularly pull 2 or 3 mobs even signatures and have a few other mobs join while fighting and come out on top while watching a football game. I have all my class traits my virtures are rather far behind and I'm running around sword and board. In my opinion of playing a Captain since the minute the servers turned on they are the most survivable class if played correctly.

    Sure Champs have their AOE's and such but I don't really care about damaging everyone just the one in front of me with my healing mark attached to it. With the old focus both and the ICPR standard up I tend to play like the BMV runs. Take a number and I will get to you when I can. That said I kill a equal level mob in around 20 or 25 seconds. I have gotten lucky a few times and brought some down in just a few hits given Devastates and such.

  13. #13

    captain dps

    hey,

    yesterday i had about 3.7k dps over 4 mins... max. hit: over 18k
    lvl75 dummy; used my old lvl85 first age weapon and only lvl85 gear.
    my captain is lvl95, red tree^^

    crazy...
    -- CHING CHING --

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    6
    For new Captains, I can say the difference is like night and day for me.

    Before the update I was doing just fine with a two-handed hammer from the Skirmish camp rewards and I found that my shout was pretty weak, definitely nothing that would kill anything teal or higher by itself.

    After the update I went into the Leader of Men on (yellow), mainly because I'm duo-ing with a Guardian and I wanted to be a little stouter and I liked the "block with 2handed weapons" ability to help increase my defenses.

    Wow. At first I was a bit pissed because it looked like they took away my on death heal. Later, I started seeing it pop up as a choice on screen when I killed a mob and I finally realized that the icon was the same as my targeted heal now and I had been glossing over that. Well, now I can use my on death triggered abilities any time but they are more powerful when used with a death trigger event. My AE shout now hits for about 140 non crit and if used with a death event I'm hitting for more like 240. At level 26 that is enough to flatline most teal mobs.

    My heals also are hitting much harder even without being in the blue line. I can't say anything about mid or high level play, but low level is an amazingly fun and powerful experience. I'm also exceptionally happy that our morale buff turned into a toggle so I don't have to worry about casting it every 20 minutes or so. It's also a nice healthy 10% now.

    Additionally, I went from having 1 herald to having 3 plus an archer pet now. I'm currently favoring the archer, seems to hit for around 100 although I do wish they would make it so that she didn't feel the need to run into melee range to fire. I'd like her to hang back just a few feet further.

  15. #15
    my biggest pet peeve with captains has always been power costs and power regen. power - for just about every class in this game - is such an obscene hard-cap on your ability to do anything regardless of how good you are or how well you gear.

    as i have not been able to get back into this game for years because i have never seen this issue addressed (actually, i've seen it get WORSE) i'm curious how captains are for power. the fact taht rallying cry was like 40% of your power at low levels kept me from getting to enjoy the class beyond level 20, and i've got this lifetime day 1 sub that's been sitting here for years unused.

  16. #16
    Once you get the last set bonus in the yellow line (Exemplar), your survivability goes way up. I doubt I'll ever reroll another cappy but thinking back to various fellowship quests I had trouble soloing pre-HD I can imagine they would be much easier now.

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teyaha View Post
    my biggest pet peeve with captains has always been power costs and power regen. power - for just about every class in this game - is such an obscene hard-cap on your ability to do anything regardless of how good you are or how well you gear.

    as i have not been able to get back into this game for years because i have never seen this issue addressed (actually, i've seen it get WORSE) i'm curious how captains are for power. the fact taht rallying cry was like 40% of your power at low levels kept me from getting to enjoy the class beyond level 20, and i've got this lifetime day 1 sub that's been sitting here for years unused.
    Ok, I understood now. So you keep mentioning power issues in multiple threads without actually trying to play a captain yourself? In this case I do not see how one can convince you that power can be managed well if a player is paying attention to it.
    Ishtarien - Captain
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